Canadian Salt Spill - Tool Link+

[The Cape]

I was just curious because I play a pretty aggressive TL and can lock people down well with the sword. When I found out that the boomerang has more stun and can be comboed off of as easily as bair I was extremely confused. It still seems to be a very unneccasary change to an already great character, but since I almost never camp I guess I cant see that side of it.

I did watch Lobos trashing people with it at the event, but I still found it overly odd about how much better it makes the boomerang. The speed up allowed Lobos to keep two people at bay at the same time and eventually win the match. This threw up huge red flags to me since the new ability to SH boomerang > arrow or boomerang > bomb throw was a huge difference in his playstyle from before.

Its one of those changes that came completely by surprise and actually changed a good deal on an already great character.

 

[VietGeek]

Hmm, it's very well possible that I may have underestimated how a subtle lag reduction may affect it.

Although I would like to see videos of Lobos too. Considering Ness too gave some shock last weekend, I could just say that these "obscure" characters dominating may be due to unfamiliarity with the match-ups.

I see your concern though, but I want to see how it pans out.

 

[The Cape]

Well I play a TL main all the time, it just seemed like a dramatic change was all. Not that it makes TL stronger or makes him dominate more, it just seemed to be a change that was added without a good reason. You however showed me the reason for it being it, but I encourage you to look at it and see what you think in more depth and detail

 

[Lobos]

I really didn't notice until you pointed it out plus I'm really good in 2v1s in normal brawl so this isn't anything new to me. I still haven't got the ins and out of TL+ but for the most part I'm playing the same way as I would in normal brawl. Even with an upgrade to the boomerang it's still very punishable vs people that see it coming/power shield it/ avoid it and attack me with the lag.

Viet - I know for a fact that I did have vids of me in doubles. I just have no idea on who's wii they were saved on .......I will find those

 

[BRLNK88]

hmm... all this is making me think I SHOULD put more effort into plus TL.
DKs seem to give my Kirby a lot of problems, but I think TL in addition to Wolf would be a good counter.

 

[zaf]

Ive always shot out the boomerang and used another projectile at the same time. ( arrow or hookshot)

most people try to avoid the boomerang, and get by another projectile or a swordhit.

if im closer to the opponent then usual, ill shoot the boomerang in an upwards direction and run away. if the opponent chooses to pursue me i try and mix something up to either hit them, grab them or let the returning boomerang hit them

there really isnt anything gamebreaking i found with toon link in 5.0. He is still pretty much the same.

 

[zaf]

Guys! i found a great AT with toon link. I swear no one has done this before.

Here are the instructions:

1- Pull out a bomb.
2- Dash
3- Jump Cancel throw the bomb ( toon link will slide)
4- Jump and aerial into the bomb ( toon link will catch the bomb and perform an aerial)

So basically, toon link can jc throw the bomb, get enough momentum from the slide to be able to aerial into the bomb. So far the best aerials i can do this with is nair and fair.

This can be a great approach, try testing it out in your matches!!!

=] =] =] =]

EDIT: K so i dont have a dazzel or anything, can someone make a video of this?

 

[Demacrez]

Question: How do you exactly Jump Cancel? I know how to Crouch Cancel or at least I think I know how to... (Dash -> Crouch -> [insert random down attack]).

 

[CloneHat]

Question: How do you exactly Jump Cancel? I know how to Crouch Cancel or at least I think I know how to... (Dash -> Crouch -> [insert random down attack]).

Press jump at the same time you throw I guess, if it's anything like a Melee JC.

 

[Elefterios]

Press jump at the same time you throw I guess, if it's anything like a Melee JC.

yes this is how you do it,

i basically slide my finger from Y to A

and this is hard as hell to do on 0% buffer, i use 100% and its easy

 

[zaf]

ooops, zaf posting under elefs acc

 

[zaf]

toon link also gets a nice slide from jc shooting bombs.

I did something that gave him a ******** slide. I shot a bomb and i slid in the opposite direction that the bomb went. I'll try and figure out how to do it and then post it.

 

[Plaid02]

What do you guys do against Captain Falcon? I have a hard time with that matchup. His momentum gets his through my wall of spam on one jump and I get comboed to death by his stupid knee.

 

[CloneHat]

What do you guys do against Captain Falcon? I have a hard time with that matchup. His momentum gets his through my wall of spam on one jump and I get comboed to death by his stupid knee.

Bair him. He's more afraid of your aerials than your projectiles.

 

[BRLNK88]

Tink combos the living **** out of Falcon.
Knee is the only thing you really have to worry about, with Tink being a light-weight.
And of course, spacing is important.

 

[CloneHat]

Knee? There are worse problems. You do realize you basically have no options to deal with uair.

Toon Link isn't much of a threat to Falcon; that is, until he hits you.

 

[Demacrez]

Toon Link is such an aerial ***** but that's what I like about him. He's like Marth but with projectiles.

 

[BRLNK88]

Knee? There are worse problems. You do realize you basically have no options to deal with uair.

How about just don't get hit by it? Falcon can combo a lot of characters with uair.

 

[zaf]

just out space falcon, and use aerials more then projectiles. Using projectiles too much puts you in bad situations, so use them sparingly and wisely. The cf MU is the same way to play against jiggz. Projectiles do not work against her because of pound, it goes through them and at her hitbox stays out long enough for you to get hit. So once again projectiles are to be used sparingly and wisely. Learning one MU will help in the other.

Also, i hope most of you know that when you hit someone with your dair on stage, you can fastfall the second hit and hit them again. You can even attack afterwards

At low % my favorite combo to do is :

bair > u-tilt > nair ( follow the opponent) > jump (so you can footstool them) > dair > ff dair

after this depending on their % you can either usmash or uair/bair/fair etc.

try this combo out and ways to get it in, cuz it does a lot of % and is easy to do after one bair

 

[Lobos]

I'm going to another brawl+ tourney this weekend. I will try to get some videos up!

 

[JCaesar]

So, I'm teaming with Lobos this weekend, and I'm wondering, who do you guys think is a good teammate for Toon Link?

I main ROB, but I just don't think TLink and ROB complement each other very well. They both kinda get in each other's way with their spam, and neither of them have good KO power. So I was thinking about some other options.

I 2nd Sheik, Wolf, and Squirtle. I'm also pretty good with Zelda, so what I'd like to try is Sheik/Zelda. Sheik to start out, then switch to Zelda for the kills (hopefully Lobos can cover me while I transform). Zelda and TLink can also make a pretty devastating wall of spam if they can fortify one end of the stage.

It depends what characters we're facing too. I dunno about TLink's matchups, but if there's a Falco I have to go Squirtle, and if there's a Ness or Marth I have to go ROB or Wolf.

I'll be sure to get as many of these matches recorded as possible.

 

[zaf]

Use a fast character.

For lobos to be effective in teams, he needs to be able to use projectiles. Toon link has trouble approaching without projectiles, and brawl+ teams can be very hectic.

Slow characters or characters with projectiles (rob) will just make it harder for toon link. Shiek would be a good idea, but then there is still no KO power. Relying on Zelda for the kills can be risky because you leave lobos all alone. It doesn't matter if he's the best player in the world, he won't be able to hold of two opponents every single time you want to transform. If he is alone and starts getting beat on, you are risking a lot of %, or even a stock. It is a nice thought and would be great to do every time, but you have to be reasonable. Squirtle could be a great choice as well, he is fast and small so you won't get in lobos's way. He also has nice ko moves. Zelda on her own would be good too, she has a projectile but doesn't need to rely on it to win. She is a tank and can dish out lots of damage fast. Shiek would be the best idea imo.

 

[zaf]

K so my post is gunna have some suggestions and some questions.

Toon links Jab- Everytime i get a jab in, i do either two things:

1- Jab once and then try to cancel it into a grab. This tends to fail a lot because most characters i play against have a fast jab and they can jab me back before i can grab.

So am i doing jab cancel grabs wrong?

2- I do all 3 jabs, but toon link doesn't have a follow up afterwards.

Suggestion: Either give toon links first jab more hitstun ( similar to falco) to give him the ability to jab cancel grab. Or change the knockback of all the jabs completed so that toon link can follow up afterwards. ( similar to yoshis jabs knockback)

broken? tweak? bad idea? leave toon links jabs alone?

--
How do you tl mains deal with fast characters? I know a lot of us have been complaining about cf, but its not him that is the problem its tl. Tl has trouble dealing with fast characters because they can get past our projectiles much faster and quicker then the rest of the cast. Tl doesn't have great priority on his entire moveset, so going 100% sword is not the best idea.

 

[JCaesar]

How do you tl mains deal with fast characters? I know a lot of us have been complaining about cf, but its not him that is the problem its tl. Tl has trouble dealing with fast characters because they can get past our projectiles much faster and quicker then the rest of the cast. Tl doesn't have great priority on his entire moveset, so going 100% sword is not the best idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqEhhMJql1s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olic1rGuWFM

Lobos has a Wolf weakness.

He didn't save any of his other matches from last weekend unfortunately, but I believe he beat Vist's Falcon in tourney, and lost to Hat's Falcon.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Lobos need better + DI. I also saw no Dsmash :/. Its one of the best move againt wolf now in + thanks to its angle .

 

[zaf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqEhhMJql1s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Olic1rGuWFM

Lobos has a Wolf weakness.

He didn't save any of his other matches from last weekend unfortunately, but I believe he beat Vist's Falcon in tourney, and lost to Hat's Falcon.

I dont really have much to say about those vids, like i was not impressed. I really need to upload my toon link. =/. Lobos doesn't combo wolf at all, and wolf is a ff'er. He just chips away the whole time, when he can easily rack up a lot of damage against wolf. There is like zero tech chasing being done by lobos. He doesn't seem to know how to space zair or when to use it. Zair is like the worst move to use when coming back from the edge, because most of the time the zair will just grab the ledge. There were like no mindgames or tricks being done by toon link in the vids, and its so easy to do with toon link. Force air dodges and do **** after, DONE.

Oh, i agree with tlmsheikant. No di, and no dsmash. Needs more of both.

 

[Lobos]

I was playing brawl and brawl+ between matches so I really didn't adjust nor do I actually practice + really

Vist used fox/falco vs me

Videos never do me any justice but oh well I remember last time someone took me lightly

lol JCaesar I lost to wolf in both B+ and brawl that day....****it......you said he was unchanged but it felt different gahhhhhh...

*note* if you main the same person don't play both games at the same time!!!!

 

[zaf]

still man, you hit and ran vs wolf when you should of been comboing him.
You can tech chase in both games, but you didnt do any tech chasing either =/

where is viet, i miss his tl discussions

 

[JCaesar]

Vist used fox/falco vs me

Ah well he used Falcon a lot that day. I figured he did against you too.

lol JCaesar I lost to wolf in both B+ and brawl that day....****it......you said he was unchanged but it felt different gahhhhhh...

When did I say that? It's not my fault if you don't read the changelist.

Wolf keeps getting buffs even though he was already amazing. That's the reason I use him now. No one in the backroom believes me, so I feel it's my duty to prove that he's broken

*note* if you main the same person don't play both games at the same time!!!!

Good advice haha

still man, you hit and ran vs wolf when you should of been comboing him.
You can tech chase in both games, but you didnt do any tech chasing either =/

In all fairness, Wolf isn't that easy to combo. He doesn't fall very fast for his weight, and he has a quick invincible combo breaker.

But I do think Lobos was just in Brawl mindset too (followups r bad!)

where is viet, i miss his tl discussions

Haven't seen him around lately. I dunno where he's been.

 

[zaf]

if wolf is so hard to combo, then howcome i can combo him =/

edit: i think viet quit tl for marth, lol

 

[VietGeek]

I've been playing other games lately. I really don't recall the last time I played Smash. @_@

 

[zaf]

why dont you play brawl+ anymore? =[

 

[Vist]

Ah well he used Falcon a lot that day. I figured he did against you too.

in tourney i only used falcon once against your wolf and once against hat's kirby. i wasn't playing so hot so it didnt really seem to matter who i picked anyway

 

[ph00tbag]

For the record, Wolf is one of the harder characters to combo in B+. He doesn't suffer much from hitstun, and he has invincibility on his shine. It makes up for the fact that his recovery is terrible, I guess.

 

[zaf]

viet get back in here please, you have a lot of feedback, ideas and I sometimes feel like im talking to myself now when i post. =[

 

[zaf]

How are all of your feelings towards the 5.0 toon link?
Any new finds? Problems? Match ups?etc

post anything that you want to share so we can actually start discussing the character some more.

 

[~Xero~]

Hey zaf, this is zaf posting to you from your brothers account =]
So this thread is realllllly dead =/

yea, i would talk to myself..............

i see what you did there viet

 

[Elefterios]

toon link + is mid tier. /thread

 

[TLMSheikant]

TL+ is low tier imo.

 

[~Xero~]

Zaf Posting

I hate you elef, lol, toon link is better than yoshi though =P

zz, ill probably be the only toon link main