Canadian Salt Spill - Tool Link+

[VietGeek]

Since the last Toon Link thread is massively dead. I'll make a new one.

A guide won't exist...but a few tips and sh*t will...

after Brawl+ goes gold. Soon after? lolyeahright.

Until then, feel free to discuss...all things Toon Link. Otherwise I will have to talk to myself.

Funniest one I could find that was appropriate. I think.​

Changelist:

Toon Link as he is has been left relatively unchanged in comparison to other characters. But there are a few changes...aside from physics:

-------------------------------------------
Back-Aerial (Bair):
Change type: Buff
Buff: Angled at 64 degrees over original 60.
Reason: Angle was too low so that SDIing down would make the opponent tech. Being a staple combo move, that was largely terrible for Toon Link.
-------------------------------------------
Forward Smash (1st hit):
Change type: Fix
Fix:

Hitbox 1 (tip): Angle 50, KBG to 50 from 86, BKB to 28 from 0 (WiP)
Hitbox 2 (upper middle): Angle 50, KBG to 50 from 86, BKB to 28 from 0 (WiP)
Hitbox 3 (lower middle): Angle 35, KBG to 60 from 86, BKB to 32 from 0
Hitbox 4 (lower to hilt): Angle 35, KBG to 60 from 86, BKB to 32 from 0

Reason: First hit had no hitstun and could be retaliated on reaction from being hit by strong, KO-inducing moves such as Jigglypuff's Rest, Luigi's Super Jump Punch, Marth's Dolphin Slash, etc. These changes should make connecting the move easier, and make it slightly safer from retaliation.
-------------------------------------------
Down Smash (1st hit):
Change type: Fix/Nerf
Fix:

[CENTER]-Dsmash ridiculous sideswipe glitch fixed-[/CENTER]
Hitbox 2 (front side): KBG to 0 from 100, BKB to 110 from 0, angle 172 from 170
Hitbox 3 (middle): KBG to 0 from 100, BKB to 80 from 0, angle 172 from 180

Reason: At <20% or so, and/or when Toon Link is facing an upward angled slope, a down smash would have ridiculous horizontal knockback behind Toon Link. The 2nd hit that normally sent up would be missed and the opponent would typically be sent flying to their death.
-------------------------------------------

Tips: Landing the kill

One of the most frustrating kinks in Toon Link is his inability to kill, sporting not only weak kill moves, but almost no way to set them up.

Next time (lol), I'll touch over some of the more practical options to land the much sought-after kill.

As for discussion, just follow the typical rules of the Workshop. However, if you feel there is something 'missing' in your character, feel free to blurb about it...just not for too long. <_<

 

[Sudai]

I think what's missing is you talking to yourself. I purposely didn't respond to see if you'd actually do it or not. Haha.

Anyway..real(not really) discussion? I love Magic Armor Toon Link even though it never happened in any game ever, I still love it. :X

 

[Arkaether]

You might want a thing on combos and stuff. Though TL doesn't really have true combos, persay, since you can usually DI/tech them, at least from what I've noticed.

Also, I don't get the pic. She's saying "The C-stick is prohibited!" and TL is saying "awesome~". What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Roy-G-Biv]

You might want a thing on combos and stuff. Though TL doesn't really have true combos, persay, since you can usually DI/tech them, at least from what I've noticed.

Also, I don't get the pic. She's saying "The C-stick is prohibited!" and TL is saying "awesome~". What does that have to do with anything?

Wind Waker if I remember correctly, you can look around in first person.

Toon Link's really enjoying that Pantsu.

 

[VietGeek]

I think what's missing is you talking to yourself. I purposely didn't respond to see if you'd actually do it or not. Haha.

Almas would've infracted me. =V

You might want a thing on combos and stuff. Though TL doesn't really have true combos, persay, since you can usually DI/tech them, at least from what I've noticed.

That's what the kill stuff is for. =V

You can improvise your own damage racking combos rofl, it's not exactly hard in B+. Just know none of your attacks send into tumble until you go past 10%. =V

Toon Link's really enjoying that Pantsu.

Aww yeah.

 

[VietGeek]

Viet are you sure Fsmash hitbox 1 connects correctly? I've had cases where the opponent may of SDI'd away and downward to shield the second hit. Also if I hit them at the ledge I often can't follow up.

Hmm, right. Perhaps I should raise the angle to 60, similar to how BBrawl is handling the situation. Good call Viet. Nice to know there's another TL player on the block

 

[Sosuke]

Raise it to 57 and increase the hitstun slightly.

 

[VietGeek]

Raise it to 57 and increase the hitstun slightly.

Raising the hitstun actually breaks it because it sends them away too far.

In fact the move doesn't send into tumble so it has very little stun to begin with.

Sakurai needs to stop being lazy and programming these last-month characters right. D=

 

[Sosuke]

You mean overall or just the first hit sends them too far too be hit by the second one?

 

[VietGeek]

You mean overall or just the first hit sends them too far too be hit by the second one?

First hit tip hitbox.

But yeah, I think all I need to do is adjust the angle and my little boy can go gold.

 

[grim mouser]

Nice to know there's another TL player on the block

You would talk to yourself? ;P

TL doesn't seem to have changed a whole lot... I suppose after the projectile game enables an approach/hit, you can follow up, but not many real combos.

 

[PKNintendo]

That's one funny picture.

I don't normally play Toon Link, but I guess I can make an exception.
Mainly, the Fsmash buff helped alot.

(I didn't even know it could be interrupted in vBrawl)

 

[grim mouser]

Yeah, Jiggly could SDI in and interrupt with Rest. Not sure of what else could interrupt.

 

[VietGeek]

Basically anything with invinciblity (Dolphin Slash, Fox/Wolf shine, Mikuru Beam). And Giant Fire Punch or w/e (Luigi's Shoryuken).

You could also jump out of it and stuff. It wasn't only a matter of connecting, but also a matter of giving it real stun.

Atm I'm kinda lazy though although I could do a quick polish if I wanted to (of the angle).

Btw:

Do you guys experience any problem with how UpB connects?

Also how do you guys like the other changes?

 

[PKNintendo]

I have no problems with the Up B.
Bair was always awesome (for me) and now it's even better.

 

[Demacrez]

Basically anything with invinciblity (Dolphin Slash, Fox/Wolf shine, Mikuru Beam). And Giant Fire Punch or w/e (Luigi's Shoryuken).

Yuki will nullify the activation of the Mikuru Beam!!!

Btw:

Do you guys experience any problem with how UpB connects?

Also how do you guys like the other changes?

I have no problems with the UpB connecting.

And could there be anymore kill moves? Maybe just one more?

 

[VietGeek]

That would make killing not a weakness anymore. =/

If you look at the changelist, I made nair more combo-friendly, and made dtilt set-up like Roy's dtilt, so it can set-up for fair or uair (depends on DI) at kill %'s.

At least there's another option to set-up kills now over Dthrow, zair, or bombs/random return boomerang (both of which are extremely impractical).

...Right?

Spoiler

In fact if those tweaks all make it into an official build, I'll begin making a mini TL+ guide as promised. Just need to know if the material I'm working with isn't so 2-dimensional (TL before Genesis build).

 

[Demacrez]

Is it possible to speed up TL's Boomerang animation? I feel it's a slow start-up speed for a character who is suppose to be quick. And the boomerang doesn't do so much damage so I don't see why it's slow for a start-up.

Everything else feels fine to me.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Change...everything and ur good to go. /trolling because he hates TL+ and brawl+ in general lol

 

[BRLNK88]

um... if anything I would say Tink has an easier time with killing in plus.
For one thing, its much easier to connect with uair, and overall with no stale moves, his finishers are more reliable.

 

[RedyBz]

Bump

A question ive just installed Brawl+ recently and i'm wondering if we can do SHDA with TL ive watched some videos(VietGeek) and he could do shda but i can't. Did something changed? Just asking. Thanks

 

[Sudai]

It just takes tighter timing now. More buffer for more easy.

 

[Zodac]

i think the boomerang could be alot better, just kinda a "meh" move at the moment, needs some 64 inspiration.

I'm thinking more hitstun, less knock back, more damage.

 

[Demacrez]

i think the boomerang could be alot better, just kinda a "meh" move at the moment, needs some 64 inspiration.

I'm thinking more hitstun, less knock back, more damage.

That or make the animation throw faster, for something that does a meh amount I was expecting it to be... faster.

Edit: Is it just me or does aerial Up+B seem beastly at the end of the spin?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Make the boomerang do 18 damage on the sweetspot (upclose), a little more damage on the normal hit and make it come out a little faster.

 

[BRLNK88]

I only care about its hit-stun on the return hit, not enough IMO.
In 64 it had the same hit-stun going and coming back. That would allow for a better set-up for a usmash or fair, two good finishers.

 

[grim mouser]

Better boomerang would be nice, seeing as it's so useful in TL's projectile game.

 

[Sudai]

I only care about its hit-stun on the return hit, not enough IMO.
In 64 it had the same hit-stun going and coming back.

In 64 it had the same hit-stun going and coming back.

In 64 it had

64

Wat ?

 

[leafgreen386]

i think the boomerang could be alot better, just kinda a "meh" move at the moment, needs some 64 inspiration.

I'm thinking more hitstun, less knock back, more damage.

Since as we all know, hitstun and knockback aren't related to each other in the slightest.

 

[CloneHat]

Wat ?

SSB64, as opposed to 1964.

 

[VietGeek]

Since as we all know, hitstun and knockback aren't related to each other in the slightest.

obv

stop pointing out the obv leaf

u just want to +1 ur post count in the TL thread

=V

SSB64, as opposed to 1964.

Pretty sure 1964 runs SSB just fine.

But applying SSB logic to Brawl+ is just asking for MOAR HITSTUN ON GANON'S DAIR sort of ordeal.

 

[Sudai]

I mean... SSB64 didn't have Toon Link.. Nor Young Link...so there's no real comparison. I know you mean Link, but I'm just trying to stimulate discussion because this place is dead.. :[

 

[leafgreen386]

obv

stop pointing out the obv leaf

u just want to +1 ur post count in the TL thread

=V

Like this?

:v

Almas was here

Pretty sure 1964 runs SSB just fine.

Not as fine as Nineteen Eighty-Four.

But applying SSB logic to Brawl+ is just asking for MOAR HITSTUN ON GANON'S DAIR sort of ordeal.

I can't warlock punch out of ganon's dair at high percents; this game needs more hitstun.

 

[BRLNK88]

omg, you guys are TOTALLY missing my point.
For one thing, I'm NOT talking about the emulator 1964, just the game, SSB64, whether you're playing it on an emulator or N64.
Secondly, Tink's boomerang IS the closest thing to Link's boomerang in SSB64, which by far has been the most useful boomerang to date, because it has the same amount of hit-stun on its return as on the initial throw. I'm saying make Tink's boomerang like that, not just nip the opponent on the way back.
The 64 boomerang is so strong on its return, it forces the opponent to tech.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Why must the WBR members always post so trollish-like...almost all of you have a short fuse :/.

 

[Sterowent]

it comes with being skeptics. how else do you think you could have a (worthwhile) community-driven game?

i'm all for this boomer forcing tech idea. thing's easily avoided enough, so it would certainly add to Tink's trap game without defining it.

 

[VietGeek]

Why must the WBR members always post so trollish-like...almost all of you have a short fuse :/.

lmao why must you always backstab people when it's not longer favorable or that you're going against the majority (betraying DTL when TL boards basically ditched him, following the entire PR community in leaving B+ then going off and trying to pass Barlw as harder than Brawl+ when the skill required is nearly the same but applies to different aspects [offense and defense], hopping on the BBrawl boat but then complain about almost the same stuff that made you "disgusted" with the B+ community off-thread)?

It's almost like you have commitment issues. :/

 

[VietGeek]

So, with Project Smash Attack out...I was able to make a legit Young Link Dsmash to try to replace the *nearly unfixable* Toon Link Dsmash...which indeed has glitched up knockback (Base Knockback being read as literally over 90,000 for his first slash hit).

The same with 1st hit of fsmash.

Anyway, I need some people to help me design YL's dsmash with me since I do not play YL in Melee. I want it to have similar power as in Melee, but be more of a balanced but still rewarding move. No move outright combos into TL's dsmash, and I feel this move can become a very good move worth using now, but I need it to be made with balance in mind.

This is why it currently is rather weak. Also the original stats were posted by Shanus a LONG time ago. Thank him for going out and providing good base numbers to start with.

Currently, YL Dsmash's stats are:

(applies to both slash swipes but can be adjusted to apply to only the tip, make one slash stronger over the other, etc.)

Stats (all in decimal)
Damage: 15
Trajectory: 35
BKB: 35
KBG: 85

Also, TL's fsmash 1st hit is also borked and I need someone to verify if the original tweaks to it still work now that I've removed the glitchy BKB.

The only thing that was slightly tweaked was hb1 (tip) hitbox:

Angled at 60 over the original mod's 50, which deviated from the vBrawl default of 80 degrees.

Test to see if any DI (like away and down) to shield works, if Jigglypuff can jump and Rest TL, etc.

Finally, here's the link:

Link to MediaFire folder

Included:

A PSA'd .pac with all TL hitbox B+ changes and testset F and D smash
Put this in private\wii\app\RSB?(region code here)\pf\fighter\toonlink of your SD card.

And

a new codeset to test it with (7-21 nightly with no Toon Link hitbox modifications so PSA and hitbox mods don't stack on each other lol).

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Tips: Landing the kill

Zair -> upsmash works well, its pretty safe but works only if the character misses the tech, but usmash is fast enough so that if they do tech roll most likely you won't be punished. bombs also set up into some pretty good aerials. also, tlinks dsmash sucks now.

 

[iSpiN]

Dsmash doesn't suck... but he has much better options. If you want to find a move that sucks, look @ his arrows. All you need for TL now is just bombs and rang. Arrows have low priority/damage and are much too slow even if you cancel them. But I suppose it does have its uses when you already have a rang out and bomb out, but generally sticking to rang and bombs works better for me at least.

Also in certain scenarios, projectiles to Usmash works well too when you want to land a kill.