Canadian Salt Spill - Tool Link+

[Demacrez]

I usually play 50 buffer with aerial characters... with the exception of Metaknight... he's 90. O.o

I'll test out the new build more tonight to see if I can find anything else. Oh, and here's an idea about TL's grab game: make both forward and backward throws at low angles for edge games. Huh? Huh? :D

:V

Edit: So, I've been playin' the new test and I've realized something... I've over exaggerated. The new weight does make him better since I played without the thought that TL got a Big Mac.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

if you can make this into a nightly/test build for the crew to try out then ill give my feedback since im wii-less.

 

[zaf]

ive been trying the new .pac you made viet, and for some reason UPB crashes the game for me randomly when i use it off stage to recover. Besides that i am liking it better so far, toon link has a better feel to him. And it is nice to be able to shda again. I will keep testing it tomorrow against some actual B+ players

 

[VietGeek]

UpB randomly crashing sounds weird, I'll look into it. I haven't really touched the move outside of the physics thing though, odd.

Try redownloading the .pac again just in case.

 

[zaf]

omfg guys, viet is a genius for making this new pac. WE NEED to get it in the next build

toon link can battlecrist to jab grab

but please fix upb, its so short =[

the new uthrow links into dair =]

shda is so easy now,

wow i must say viet you did a fine *** job making this new pac, it is so easy to control him now and it feels so much better. PLEASE DO WAHT YOU CAN TO MAKE THIS THE TOON LINK OF THE NEXT BUILD. Toons let your voice be heard

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

omg it sounds hawt now lol. btw whats battlecrist? i didnt main TL in vbrawl but i do now basic stuff.. (bair>nair/ shda, etc)

 

[zaf]

omg it sounds hawt now lol. btw whats battlecrist? i didnt main TL in vbrawl but i do now basic stuff.. (bair>nair/ shda, etc)

battlechrist is like when you bair, then shoot an arrow the same way your bair was directed to

( bair your opponent, then quickly tap the direction toward them, then arrow. Make sure you dont boomerang though. Let go of the control stick)

so i am doing this basically


sh bair > arrow hit > jab > grab


this works at low percent, so after the grab , do a downthrow. THen follow up with a usmash into dsmash. I been doing this all day lol.

GUYS. Uthrow is good now. Follow it up with a dair

I ****ing love toon link

 

[TLMSheikant]

battlechrist is like when you bair, then shoot an arrow the same way your bair was directed to

( bair your opponent, then quickly tap the direction toward them, then arrow. Make sure you dont boomerang though. Let go of the control stick)

so i am doing this basically


sh bair > arrow hit > jab > grab


this works at low percent, so after the grab , do a downthrow. THen follow up with a usmash into dsmash. I been doing this all day lol.

GUYS. Uthrow is good now. Follow it up with a dair

I ****ing love toon link

Umm sorry but battlechrist is another tech. The bair to arrow cancel (if fast falled) is the Reverse Quick Shot. Battlechrist is when u reverse an arrow cancel so TL shoots it in the direction hes facing but shoots the bow the wrong way.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Oh and boomerang speed up is neccesary. Oh and umm Bthrow, fthrow angles change them to set up edgeguards. Make nair's angle better for edgeguarding too. I would say good job viet but I havent been able to test this so yeah :/.

EDIT: Sorry for double post :/.

 

[zaf]

ok cool, well then battlechrist is useless then lol.

reverse quick shot is where its at guys, start getting used to doing this.

Dont change nair, it is perfect now and it combos into itself if ff'd. Ive dont nair to nair to other moves before and it doesnt need changing

 

[VietGeek]

battlechrist is usable, I'd say it's as useful as SHDA, with stricter timing though.

Too bad both double arrow techs aren't particularly good anyway LOL

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

i downloaded the RSBE. do i also need the pac for TL cuz it wont load. im @ my sisters house

 

[VietGeek]

You don't need the .pac to test physics but it reworked Dsmash and **** to be less ridiculous. =V

 

[iLink]

Don't change nair, with the new physics its more versatile with follow ups.

 

[Demacrez]

Oh and boomerang speed up is neccesary.

Well, the boomerang is fine. The throw and retrieval animations are too slow and become too time consuming when in the middle of a fight. Also, on that matter, can we reduce the retrieval time on the boomerang? I find myself without a boomerang for several seconds after the boomerang had already passed me.

Oh and umm Bthrow, fthrow angles change them to set up edgeguards.

I already said something about that...

Make nair's angle better for edgeguarding too.

No, N-Air is fine as it is. We don't want to make Toon Link rely on edgeguarding as his primary tool.

 

[VietGeek]

Its older angle set up for edgeguards semi-well, but I don't understand why we want to revert again. Isn't nair a staple BnB combo move?

why the hell would you want to change it from that and make it a tech chaser and edgeguarder? We all know it never worked well like that. Nair has too much winddown to react to an opponent's tech and it basically works off set kb so unless you're fighting someone with a suckish recovery like Ike or Marth...which can be easily edgehugged anyways...

I don't see why we suddenly want to go back to the direction Sakurai took with that move. o_O

I'll look at the boomerang thing...what do we want...

faster start-up or faster winddown...

 

[iLink]

I would prefer the faster winddown. The start-up never really bothered me.

 

[Demacrez]

Start up. It's ridiculuosly slow compared to wind down and comparing to Link's, it feels slowly even though TL is suppose to be faster than him.

And viet, is it possible to reduce the return time on boomerang? It stays out way too long IMO.

 

[VietGeek]

That's a prop element, can't change that.

Plus it'd probably be complicated as **** to do lol.

I'm content with the boomerang properties anyway. Once it's out it almost always does it job right.

Except for the random times where it doesn't.

Then you're like FFFFFFFFF-

lmao we're tied =V

 

[TLMSheikant]

Start up definetely.

 

[Demacrez]

Also, I noticed TL's D-Air through a platform (landing on a fall/jump through platform) does damage but doesn't cause hitstun or KB. The opponent acts like nothing happened are returned the favor with something that does knockback and hitstun.

Is that purposefully done or is it a glitch?

 

[zaf]

change the boomerangs start up please. Thats the worst part of it, the quicker it can be out the better.

Also, the rest of the .pac seems stable and not broken. I tested it out a lot tonight at a weekly and i can safely say i like it much better and it isnt broken. Uthrow to dair works at like low percents and if the opponent doesn't DI. So its not worth looking into imo. Now what can we do, to make this the next toon link in the nightly build? I really like his new physics much more

EDIT::

Would it be possible to allow toon link to drop bombs on the ground like snake does with nades? Say you press down and B while a bomb is held, rather then it hit the ground and blow up. It would just sit there. Too broken?

 

[iLink]

My logic behind the reduced winddown on the boomerang:

Effectively it can pop people up setting up practically any aerial. With the faster winddown, you can follow up to it easier.

I do believe it's a bit on the slow side but its already a rather large projectile as it is and I don't find it very hard to hit with it.

 

[VietGeek]

Also, I noticed TL's D-Air through a platform (landing on a fall/jump through platform) does damage but doesn't cause hitstun or KB. The opponent acts like nothing happened are returned the favor with something that does knockback and hitstun.

Is that purposefully done or is it a glitch?

That's because you hit with the windbox.

Wind hitboxes do not have hitstun, only damage and knockback.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Oh and Viet. U should adjust the windown (make it faster) to compensate for the faster start up. So that follow ups are still possible. If it keeps the same cooldown it wont be possible to follow up with a faster start up. :V

 

[zaf]

Ok so i got some matches i can upload now. Taken from yesterday at the weekly vs a wolf player. I got another one vs Holynightmare. Ally and holy are at my place but i cant seem to get any good footage vs ally, i guess he is a the brawl+ champ for a reason lol. One of the matches should be viewable soon, uploading it.

 

[shanus]

Post the vids of Ally even if you are getting thrashed, I want good snake footage to analyze.

 

[zaf]

Post the vids of Ally even if you are getting thrashed, I want good snake footage to analyze.

ok, ill ask him if we can save some matches then. Wish i had a dazzle so i can stream this =P

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I've been playing TL, and I disagree with the kill moves statement in the OP. Seeing as most of his aerials are decent kill moves, and depending on what I'm doing, I can usually combo into either a Bair chain off the top, an Fair kill, or Uair.

 

[VietGeek]

Your opponents need to learn how to DI. =V

Like DI well I mean.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

If you're willing to direct me to players in my area that don't SUCK, please do.

I'm probably wrong, you're right...

 

[VietGeek]

Dude it's Europe, you'll find someone. <_<

if the grass there always looks as picturesque as you guys advertise it to be, the players must be just as green.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Europe is big, I am 15 with parents who do not support my hobbies. The closest one is Ravenlord, he runs a german smash site and is considered like top 5 in europe.

 

[zaf]

make the players whom you play with better. Teach them things and introduce them to smashboards. Show them how to Di and show them why they are losing

 

[TLMSheikant]

^ This. Also, can we make ftilt faster?

 

[zaf]

^ This. Also, can we make ftilt faster?

i dont think it needs to be faster. Remember we aren't trying to break the character.
Ftilt's hitbox is already ******** and it can hit your opponent on either side. SO if they are behind you and ftilt will hit them.

IT combo's after a nair, and then you can do a dash attack or another nair after.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Did TL really have major holes in his game besides a very inconsistent Fsmash and retardedly slow grabs?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Did TL really have major holes in his game besides a very inconsistent Fsmash and retardedly slow grabs?

dsmash. boomerang.
but grabs dsmash and fsmash were fixed. I personally don't want his physics changed.. I don't feel its necessary for anything else really. he's solid.

 

[zaf]

Did TL really have major holes in his game besides a very inconsistent Fsmash and retardedly slow grabs?

dsmash. boomerang.
but grabs dsmash and fsmash were fixed. I personally don't want his physics changed.. I don't feel its necessary for anything else really. he's solid.

viet made a new pac, and his physics were altered. Allowing him to do more at's and its just all round a better feel for toon link.

His grabs were buffed
His dsmash is fixed, but it is weaker in viets pac.
He still has trouble killing i find. I mean squirtle can kill at like 80% with an uair on some chars, but toon usually kills around 110 if lucky
His boomerang is balls, i dont want to use it right now. Really like laggy on start up and it ****s you over sometimes when it is returning.

The only other hole in his game is his priority. Since his range is not the best and his hitboxes are quiet small and come out fast at that, it feels like a lot of my moves are being beaten by other moves which shouldnt. my usmash vs a yoshi utilt lol

but i will continue to use toon link nonetheless. he is amazing at one thing, which i love. that one thing is confusion. With his many projectiles ( besides that ****ty boomerang) and his hookshot he can be very unpredictable.

 

[zaf]

More idea's from the mind of zaf.

After playing holy for a day straight, and being dsmashed tooo much by his rob, i came to the conclusion that toon link has zero answers to robs dsmash. Everyone of toon's moves gets out prioritized by rob's dsmash. When you think about it, toon has no options for fast multi hit moves.

So would it be broken to make toons upb, exactly like links? Make it a knockback move? It would allow toon to clear himself sometimes. And when you think about it, his best range is mid range. So it would allow the toon player to reset the spacing and allow him to get back into the game, when being pressured heavily. It could also be a good k.o move and good for early gimps.

What do you guys think? *looks at viet*