Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 ('Terminal' - the 17th for Elite / 18th for non-Elite)

[Bones0]

Why can't I dl Terminal yet? :|

 

[SnackAttack]

Termnial's garbage.

That is all.

 

[Bones0]

Told ya.

 

[SnackAttack]

Told ya.

I came SOOOOOO close to throwing a controller.

 

[Bones0]

My new thing I have been doing is punching my chair until my hand hurts too much to keep playing.

Hasn't happened since I unlocked SitRep Pro though. MUAHAHA! I went something like a combined 40-5 in just a few SnD games after unlocking it...

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

I've only played 2 pubs on terminal and it's just........horrible.

People camp top red, cockpit, bookstore, and C/A dom chokepoints all ****ing day long. I almost like it better with tubes and commando.

 

[Bones0]

Why did you guys think it'd be any different? XD

At least you could delete it so you never play it again. lol

 

[SnackAttack]

Trust me... I am

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Bottom line is the maps in this game suck. If they weren't so bad maybe I'd be more enticed to play, but that's just not how it is. Even the maps cater to bad players. Whatever.

Also, completely unrelated question. If anyone has Conker's bad fur day, harvest moon, or bomberman the second attack for the n64, message me. I want those games so I can stop playing this one.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

Oh my friend has a harvest moon game for 64, Ima see if I can mooch it off of him

terminals not bad if you have a and c flags, you just had a bad night Brian cause you were using shotguns

 

[Bones0]

*shrug*
I don't think they're that bad. I wish they were a bit bigger so they could accommodate at least 1-2 more chokepoints, but I think there are a lot of other factors that make the maps play worse than they should.

1. The standard lobby should be 4v4 or 5v5 instead of 6v6. With less people on the map, movement is more beneficial than just camping back and walling out the other team by watching every chokepoint.

2. There should be (at least) 5 second respawns. Instant respawns not only make it feel like there are 8 enemies at any given time, but when players respawn instantly, the location the game chooses is virtually random meaning you are frequently getting spawns near enemies and vice versa. I would love Demo if they had 5 or maybe 7 second respawns so that teams can't just bum rush the bombs all game. You can increase or decrease plant/defuse times to fine tune how easy or hard it is to plant/defuse.

3. UAV, Advanced UAV, HBS, Portable Radar, and enemy footsteps need to go. They all just promote camping, require almost no skill, and on top of all of that, aren't even fun to use. I can get how people enjoy shooting an RPG and getting a quad, but I can't understand why anyone would prefer to play with their location broadcasted on radar the entire game. These are all the main reasons for the abuse of just a few perks (any half-decent class setup requires Assassin and SitRep/DS).

4. Bomb and capture locations need to be redone. The novelty of the whole "one bomb is super easy to plant at and one is super hard to plant at" is gone after a few days of playing. No one wants to rush the same bomb every game, but when you make it retardedly easy to plant on one and stupidly difficult to plant on the other, what do you expect? For Dom, they always have a flag in each "base" and then one that actually gets fought over. The two in the base are rarely important because unless your team is getting MoaB'd on, you'll always have the one you're spawning at capped. Move them further out of the bases and push all of them to the sides. I think Hardhat is a good example of how to set them up, but they put the flags right at the chokepoints where you're exposed to about 30 million lines of sight so they're too hard to cap without getting picked off from 100 yards away.

 

[Delta-cod]

1. The standard lobby should be 4v4 or 5v5 instead of 6v6. With less people on the map, movement is more beneficial than just camping back and walling out the other team by watching every chokepoint.

By the way, MW2 guysssssssssss. I'd play Black Ops with you all but the game actually bores me, even though I can admit that it's balanced and that the results actually make sense.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

By the way, MW2 guysssssssssss. I'd play Black Ops with you all but the game actually bores me, even though I can admit that it's balanced and that the results actually make sense.

That last part seriously gave me a good lol.

Quote of the century goes to Delta.

And I'll play MW2 with you whenever you're on. I'll play any CoD, really.

 

[Bones0]

I never said teams couldn't just camp chokepoints. I just said it's not as one-dimensional as defense = win.

 

[Delta-cod]

That last part seriously gave me a good lol.

Quote of the century goes to Delta.

And I'll play MW2 with you whenever you're on. I'll play any CoD, really.

Lmao, it's just that the game is so easy I get bored of Blackbirding the enemy team for days.

 

[Wretched]

Lmao, it's just that the game is so easy I get bored of Blackbirding the enemy team for days.

Lets play MW2 dehltah

 

[DSTP]

*shrug*
I don't think they're that bad. I wish they were a bit bigger so they could accommodate at least 1-2 more chokepoints, but I think there are a lot of other factors that make the maps play worse than they should.

1. The standard lobby should be 4v4 or 5v5 instead of 6v6. With less people on the map, movement is more beneficial than just camping back and walling out the other team by watching every chokepoint.

2. There should be (at least) 5 second respawns. Instant respawns not only make it feel like there are 8 enemies at any given time, but when players respawn instantly, the location the game chooses is virtually random meaning you are frequently getting spawns near enemies and vice versa. I would love Demo if they had 5 or maybe 7 second respawns so that teams can't just bum rush the bombs all game. You can increase or decrease plant/defuse times to fine tune how easy or hard it is to plant/defuse.

3. UAV, Advanced UAV, HBS, Portable Radar, and enemy footsteps need to go. They all just promote camping, require almost no skill, and on top of all of that, aren't even fun to use. I can get how people enjoy shooting an RPG and getting a quad, but I can't understand why anyone would prefer to play with their location broadcasted on radar the entire game. These are all the main reasons for the abuse of just a few perks (any half-decent class setup requires Assassin and SitRep/DS).

4. Bomb and capture locations need to be redone. The novelty of the whole "one bomb is super easy to plant at and one is super hard to plant at" is gone after a few days of playing. No one wants to rush the same bomb every game, but when you make it retardedly easy to plant on one and stupidly difficult to plant on the other, what do you expect? For Dom, they always have a flag in each "base" and then one that actually gets fought over. The two in the base are rarely important because unless your team is getting MoaB'd on, you'll always have the one you're spawning at capped. Move them further out of the bases and push all of them to the sides. I think Hardhat is a good example of how to set them up, but they put the flags right at the chokepoints where you're exposed to about 30 million lines of sight so they're too hard to cap without getting picked off from 100 yards away.

I can agree with many things here, but I may end up disagreeing with more. Starting from the top: yes, I do see the point of larger maps. I'm not talking Blops Array and Discovery here, but it seems that the map design in general is just awful. If you were to take the floor plan for each map and decrease the number of buildings by half and instead insert a few more cover points, I guarantee you would be surprised with the amount of space it would create.

1) There is a theme growing in your post here. And that is Halo. Just for the record, Call of Duty is NOT Halo.
Continuing on, 4v4 already exists. If you don't like playing multiple game types, however, it's your loss. It tactical. It's for team play.
As for the reason 6v6 exists, let's travel back into the days of math, shall we?
This is Pascal's triangle:

Pascal's triangle can explain many combinations of objects that you will find in your everyday life. Do we all remember how it works? If you don't, look it up. Smart people know. Let's imagine this - Row 1 is a team of 1 player - Row 2 is a team of 2 players - Row 3 is, etc. Amazingly enough, if you add all the numbers that appear in each row, the sum turns out to be the exact number of ways a team of size "Row #" can rearrange themselves (as in, splitting up). A team of 4 = 8 ways, a team of 5 = 16, a team of 6 = 32.

Wait, did we all catch that? The sum doubles every time another member is added. And 16 to 32 combinations is a pretty big jump. Following the trend, a team of 7 has 64 combinations. That's a lot. In fact, that's too many. And I think we could all agree that 8 combinations, and perhaps even 16, is too few.

TL;DR -> A team of 6 is perfect because math.

Also, devs know that you can wall out the other team, otherwise they'd patch it faster than a mongoose on a cobra. The reason they don't is because it only happens to bad players. Fact.

2) Hey, did I say Halo before? Because it came back again, just like missing the bomb and spin-throwing Bowser into the lava.
Respawns would kill Call of Duty if they were introduced into normal playlists. I don't mean "decrease in sales" or "more hate from the players", I truly mean instantaneous death.
Why you ask? Because the entire basis of Call of Duty is speed. Why do they introduce perks, gun types, and deathstreaks that change the speed you move at? Because it's so crucial to the franchise. When people get bull****ted out of a kill, do you really think they want to stare at their screen for a good 5-10 seconds while their murderer parades around their body bashing celebratory cymbals and blowing victory trumpets? No! That's insane. Respawns give a sense of security to a player who killed someone, and it only serves to anger the dead player more. In Call of Duty, one should never feel safe and secure. The point is to be on your toes at all times, moving around and checking corners (though admittedly, only about half of the players actually move).

Let me make a public announcement. Do you know why they have revenge spawns? It's so that you feel vulnerable. At any moment someone is going to pop up behind you and ruin your day. There is a point to it, whether we like it or not.

TL;DR -> Respawns would ruin the fast-paced action that Call of Duty is founded on.

3) No, no, no, no, no, no, and more no. There is so much wrong in this statement that I could probably substitute that paragraph in the Communist Manifesto or Mein Kampf and the rest of the book would look like Dr. Seuss in comparison.
Don't get me wrong, there are many ways of fixing these problems. I certainly see where you're coming from, but you're using a chainsaw to cut your steak. The problem is not the fact that they exist, it's simply the way they work.

As team SWF's friendly neighborhood sam turret, I have plenty of experience with UAVs and the like. The first thing I can say is that UAV's need an Extreme Makeover: home edition. Ty Pennington needs to step it up, head into IW HQ, fold up a few MW3 discs and put them in the microwave on extra high for 15 minutes, where they belong. Having UAV so low on the point streak scale was a mistake, and now that's we've witnessed the UAV terror, we know something is wrong. It started in Blops, and it's full blown atrocious in MW3.

I say this. Take motion sensor out. It's dumb. Instead, split the UAV into a choice between two streaks, both a 3 killstreak. A Ping with an expanding circle sweep like the motion sensor that covers the whole map, but it only sweeps ONCE. It shows red dots for the whole team. Or, as the other choice, a personal UAV with 5 sweeps that does NOT show red dots for teammates. Both are weaker, but still have a decent amount of power.

HBS is dumb and needs to go. I can't agree more.

IF in the future there are classes that hide you from UAVs (and there will be), they absolutely CANNOT and I repeat CANNOT hide you from CUAVs as well. And EMPs. And Advanced UAVs. First of all, as Stefan and I have discussed many times before, perks should only be made to counter perks, and killstreaks should be made to counter killstreaks. That is my philosophy, and all other conclusions can be drawn from it.

As for things such as Adv UAV and Blackbird; yes, the Blackbird was OP. And everyone loved it. Adv UAV on the other hand, is completely useless since Assassin counters it. IMO, if Adv UAV replaced Blackbird in all future games, I would have no problem. If it were an 8 killstreak, it's good as far as balance goes. As long as some perk doesn't counter it. See above paragraph.

Footsteps. It seems the devs have finally caught us red-headsetted. It's so much more common to see headsets now. I remember feeling God-like when I put my Turtle Beaches on. Now I'm behind the times, and my tech is more outdated than Windows 98. The problem arose when devs gave footsteps attention. Everybody saw an opportunity to cash in: all the commentators said to listen to footsteps and buy headsets, the devs made foosteps centered perks. It's a disease that spreads faster than a zombie infestation. It's a problem now, and I haven't had enough time to come up with a perfect solution. All I can say is that a perk that 'reduces' your footstep sound and ONLY that is ok with me. Cancelling it is not. Nor is a perk that increases footstep sound.

TL;DR -> Shame on you for saying such blasphemy, there are better ways to fix the UAV system. Footstep logic is pretty "sound".

4) Agree almost completely. It all just goes back to bad map design.

------------

Well kids, Professor Bob needs to wrap up class for the day, if any of you have questions, I'll be in my office from 4:20 to 6:09, or you can email me at HeywoodJablome@pissoff.com

 

[Bones0]

1) There is a theme growing in your post here. And that is Halo. Just for the record, Call of Duty is NOT Halo.
Continuing on, 4v4 already exists. If you don't like playing multiple game types, however, it's your loss. It tactical. It's for team play.
As for the reason 6v6 exists, let's travel back into the days of math, shall we?
This is Pascal's triangle:

Pascal's triangle can explain many combinations of objects that you will find in your everyday life. Do we all remember how it works? If you don't, look it up. Smart people know. Let's imagine this - Row 1 is a team of 1 player - Row 2 is a team of 2 players - Row 3 is, etc. Amazingly enough, if you add all the numbers that appear in each row, the sum turns out to be the exact number of ways a team of size "Row #" can rearrange themselves (as in, splitting up). A team of 4 = 8 ways, a team of 5 = 16, a team of 6 = 32.

Wait, did we all catch that? The sum doubles every time another member is added. And 16 to 32 combinations is a pretty big jump. Following the trend, a team of 7 has 64 combinations. That's a lot. In fact, that's too many. And I think we could all agree that 8 combinations, and perhaps even 16, is too few.

TL;DR -> A team of 6 is perfect because math.

I have no doubt been influenced by Halo, but I don't think at all that it is the sole reason for recommending 4v4. I play Team Tactical, but it's only one playlist. I would even say that playing TT is where I confirmed that 4v4 is much more competitive and enjoyable (subjectiveness alert!). I don't understand what a certain number of combinations of players has anything to do with gameplay, however. Are you suggesting that teams are more balanced or something because of there being more players per team? That hardly seems relevant. In what way are too few (or too many) team combinations negatively affecting the gameplay experience?

This actually reminds me that another huge thing CoD needs is a decent ranking system. Obviously they should still keep some sort of freeplay pub where there are no ranks, but being matched up with players who just got the game yesterday is beyond annoying for me, and I'm sure it's even less enjoyable for them. This is sort of even more tangential, but they need to make running objective more appealing. Switching to point streaks certainly helped (especially with support), but there's still way too many kids who go into Demo or something and just stat ***** all game completely ignoring the objective. Are there always going to be kids like that? Obviously. But with ranking levels to maintain, maybe kids would care a little more about winning if it meant they didn't get deleveled for losing multiple games in a row.

Also, devs know that you can wall out the other team, otherwise they'd patch it faster than a mongoose on a cobra. The reason they don't is because it only happens to bad players. Fact.

I agree, but 90% of people who play CoD are bad. I'm not one for catering to bad players, but it just seems cruel to subject players to ridiculously linear gameplay until they can reach the level where they can break down setups. This also often requires a good bit of teamwork which is rarely present in random matchmaking lobbies.

2) Hey, did I say Halo before? Because it came back again, just like missing the bomb and spin-throwing Bowser into the lava.
Respawns would kill Call of Duty if they were introduced into normal playlists. I don't mean "decrease in sales" or "more hate from the players", I truly mean instantaneous death.
Why you ask? Because the entire basis of Call of Duty is speed. Why do they introduce perks, gun types, and deathstreaks that change the speed you move at? Because it's so crucial to the franchise. When people get bull****ted out of a kill, do you really think they want to stare at their screen for a good 5-10 seconds while their murderer parades around their body bashing celebratory cymbals and blowing victory trumpets? No! That's insane. Respawns give a sense of security to a player who killed someone, and it only serves to anger the dead player more. In Call of Duty, one should never feel safe and secure. The point is to be on your toes at all times, moving around and checking corners (though admittedly, only about half of the players actually move).

Let me make a public announcement. Do you know why they have revenge spawns? It's so that you feel vulnerable. At any moment someone is going to pop up behind you and ruin your day. There is a point to it, whether we like it or not.

TL;DR -> Respawns would ruin the fast-paced action that Call of Duty is founded on.

CoD hardly seems about speed. The slow movement speeds actually frustrate me a lot. I'd find the game much more enjoyable with a higher level of movement open to players. I wouldn't mind at all playing a gametype where everyone has Marathon + Lightweight + Stalker at all times. I'd honestly even prefer a gametype where everyone has Specialist Bonus. Having all of the perks enabled makes the game much more individually skill based as opposed to players feeling like their lives are dispatched at the whim of the CoD gods.

Do I think people want to stare at a respawn screen? Obviously not. No one wants to stare at a respawn screen in any game. I've played enough SnD to know how much it sucks to get spawn sniped and end up watching a round for several more minutes. So when people say they're too impatient to wait 5 seconds, it kind of baffles me. Every other FPS has respawn timers, and in almost every game they are a crucial part of the balance of the game. I disagree respawns mean players who just get kills can just relax. They're still at risk of being shot by every other player, and they still have to move around to run objective, get in position for spawns, etc. Being completely honest, you have to be pretty naive to think that they knowingly made the game with instant respawn for some sort of revenge spawn factor. The only reason revenge spawns occur is because the spawn system sucks and can't be executed instantly. As someone who just got a kill, you have EARNED safety from that one opposing player for 5 seconds. It's funny you act as if the game becomes unbalanced with respawn times, but competitive CoD has (as far as I know) always used respawn times to make the punishment for dying appropriate. It's also still used in CTF (though it's that wave spawn BS) because without it, no one would ever cap a flag. It's also used in Hardcore modes without any weird side effects.

3) No, no, no, no, no, no, and more no. There is so much wrong in this statement that I could probably substitute that paragraph in the Communist Manifesto or Mein Kampf and the rest of the book would look like Dr. Seuss in comparison.
Don't get me wrong, there are many ways of fixing these problems. I certainly see where you're coming from, but you're using a chainsaw to cut your steak. The problem is not the fact that they exist, it's simply the way they work.

As team SWF's friendly neighborhood sam turret, I have plenty of experience with UAVs and the like. The first thing I can say is that UAV's need an Extreme Makeover: home edition. Ty Pennington needs to step it up, head into IW HQ, fold up a few MW3 discs and put them in the microwave on extra high for 15 minutes, where they belong. Having UAV so low on the point streak scale was a mistake, and now that's we've witnessed the UAV terror, we know something is wrong. It started in Blops, and it's full blown atrocious in MW3.

I say this. Take motion sensor out. It's dumb. Instead, split the UAV into a choice between two streaks, both a 3 killstreak. A Ping with an expanding circle sweep like the motion sensor that covers the whole map, but it only sweeps ONCE. It shows red dots for the whole team. Or, as the other choice, a personal UAV with 5 sweeps that does NOT show red dots for teammates. Both are weaker, but still have a decent amount of power.

HBS is dumb and needs to go. I can't agree more.

I very much like the idea of your weakened UAVs. Still, at the end of the day, I can't help but think motion detectors of any kind only promote camping reduce how much players have to think. The fact that players can go into FFA with SitRep or UAVs and just mindlessly check for red dots and shoot disgusts me. It takes a lot of map knowledge to keep up with kids who aren't capable of anything but pointing and clicking.

IF in the future there are classes that hide you from UAVs (and there will be), they absolutely CANNOT and I repeat CANNOT hide you from CUAVs as well. And EMPs. And Advanced UAVs. First of all, as Stefan and I have discussed many times before, perks should only be made to counter perks, and killstreaks should be made to counter killstreaks. That is my philosophy, and all other conclusions can be drawn from it.

As for things such as Adv UAV and Blackbird; yes, the Blackbird was OP. And everyone loved it. Adv UAV on the other hand, is completely useless since Assassin counters it. IMO, if Adv UAV replaced Blackbird in all future games, I would have no problem. If it were an 8 killstreak, it's good as far as balance goes. As long as some perk doesn't counter it. See above paragraph.

TL;DR -> Shame on you for saying such blasphemy, there are better ways to fix the UAV system.

So if you have a perk that counters UAVs, everyone is essentially forced to use that perk. If you don't have a perk that counters Adv UAVs, then Adv UAVs will just be massively OP. Lose lose if you ask me. Death to UAVs.

 

[Delta-cod]

"So if you have a perk that counters UAVs, everyone is essentially forced to use that perk. If you don't have a perk that counters Adv UAVs, then Adv UAVs will just be massively OP. Lose lose if you ask me. Death to UAVs."

And then Counter UAV existed.

 

[DSTP]

Being completely honest, you have to be pretty naive to think that they knowingly made the game with instant respawn for some sort of revenge spawn factor. The only reason revenge spawns occur is because the spawn system sucks and can't be executed instantly.

Speaking from a programming standpoint, it's so bad that it has to be on purpose. Unless your argument is that the spawn system goes so fast that the xbox processor "can't keep up", in which case I really hope that you are the first victim to fall to our computer overlords.

So if you have a perk that counters UAVs, everyone is essentially forced to use that perk. If you don't have a perk that counters Adv UAVs, then Adv UAVs will just be massively OP. Lose lose if you ask me. Death to UAVs.

Untrue. Why is CUAV so overlooked? Has everyone forgotten SAM turrets? Oh, look over there, on the playground. The AT4s and SMAWs are on the swing set, all by themselves again. What a sad sight. Abandoned by every player and forgotten to the point of nonexistance. *Sigh*

EDIT: Delta, you ninja

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Lmao, it's just that the game is so easy I get bored of Blackbirding the enemy team for days.

I'd actually agree with that, as funny as it is. Black ops has always been the most boring CoD for me.

Even though IW games are usually fairly unbalanced and chaotic, at least I have fun playing them.

 

[Delta-cod]

EDIT: Delta, you ninja

<3

I'd actually agree with that, as funny as it is. Black ops has always been the most boring CoD for me.

Even though IW games are usually fairly unbalanced and chaotic, at least I have fun playing them.

I think it's funny how the most balanced CoD is my least favorite to play, considering I always complain about the balance sucking.

It's probably because it's balanced by everything being average/bad, instead of everything being broken. Balanced broken stuff is always more fun.

 

[Bones0]

And then Counter UAV existed.

Untrue. Why is CUAV so overlooked? Has everyone forgotten SAM turrets? Oh, look over there, on the playground. The AT4s and SMAWs are on the swing set, all by themselves again. What a sad sight. Abandoned by every player and forgotten to the point of nonexistance. *Sigh*

EDIT: Delta, you ninja

Okay, so you are forced to use a certain kill streak instead of a certain perk. That's almost worse. There's no point in having something in the game that is simply going to be systematically destroyed or countered every time. The only reason this doesn't happen in practice is because most people want to have fun, not shoot down aircraft. So we can continue playing where someone calls in a UAV so that the opponent has to take 10 seconds to shoot it down, or we could get rid of the UAV so both players can actually play the damn game.

Speaking from a programming standpoint, it's so bad that it has to be on purpose. Unless your argument is that the spawn system goes so fast that the xbox processor "can't keep up", in which case I really hope that you are the first victim to fall to our computer overlords.

I studied spawns extensively in Halo 3. I can confirm with 100% certainty that when instant respawn was used, the game simply selected the spawn point furthest away every time no matter what. You could snipe the person 4 times a row and they'd still respawn in the same spot. Obviously CoD spawns don't work exactly the same as Halo's, but they are certainly very similar in how they work (there are set spawn points on the map; there are respawn zones which increase spawn influences; spawns are influenced by teammate locations; spawns are influenced by enemy locations; spawns are influenced by who controls an objective). Anyone who has played Dome FFA knows of the infamous spawn trap where you headglitch by the docking bay and fire into the corner. This was a super popular technique when the game first came out, and what I noticed was it only worked when you respawned immediately. When I got spawn killed and I would buffer the respawn and die almost instantly. I have both killed and been killed by this spawn trap 5+ times in a row. One time when I was spawn killed there, I naturally decided to wait instead of respawning instantly. I waited a second or two and voila, I spawned somewhere else completely safely. I tested this multiple times where I would willingly let them kill me 2, 3, 4 times by respawning immediately, and no matter what happened, as long as I waited a couple seconds to respawn, I never respawned back in that corner. I have noticed the same phenomenon when you are in the bunker on the staircase. The staircase is not considered within the same respawn zone as the back corner of the bunker. This is why as soon as you breach the threshold to the staircase, people will start spawning behind you. People frequently get this spawn when they respawn right away.

 

[Delta-cod]

Okay, so you are forced to use a certain kill streak instead of a certain perk. That's almost worse. There's no point in having something in the game that is simply going to be systematically destroyed or countered every time. The only reason this doesn't happen in practice is because most people want to have fun, not shoot down aircraft. So we can continue playing where someone calls in a UAV so that the opponent has to take 10 seconds to shoot it down, or we could get rid of the UAV so both players can actually play the damn game.

You're never ever forced to do anything! In this instance, you have options, including:

-Stealth Perk
-CUAV
-SAM Turret
-Shoot it down with one of at least 2 launchers that can target a UAV efficiently.

If we go with the idea that no perk should counter killstreaks, then you have CUAV, SAM Turret, and launchers. Why is this an issue? Assuming UAVs are weakened as well, even opting not to deal with it is acceptable. Complaining that you have to take mere seconds out of your time (or run a killstreak that does it for you) to deal with a weak killstreak is just *****ing.

With that logic:

"The enemy called in a helicopter! Why should I be forced to take 5 seconds to shoot it down as it's slowly flying towards the map! The developers should get rid of it so we can just play the damn game."

"The enemy was using cover efficiently! Why should I be forced to take 4 seconds to cook a grenade or longer to go around him? The developers should get rid of cover so we can just shoot each other and play the damn game."

And my favorite:

"The enemy was super duper close to me and knifed me before I could shoot him a couple times! Why should I be forced to be extra cautious when moving in close quarters? The developers should just get rid of the Melee attack so we can play the damn game."

Man, I forgot when having balanced options was a bad thing.

 

[DSTP]

Okay, so you are forced to use a certain kill streak instead of a certain perk. That's almost worse. There's no point in having something in the game that is simply going to be systematically destroyed or countered every time. The only reason this doesn't happen in practice is because most people want to have fun, not shoot down aircraft. So we can continue playing where someone calls in a UAV so that the opponent has to take 10 seconds to shoot it down, or we could get rid of the UAV so both players can actually play the damn game.

I have an idea, too. Let's get rid of the mini-map. And have every gun not make any noise. And no footsteps. In fact, we should all play blindfolded with earplugs.

I studied spawns extensively in Halo 3.

You should write a book.

I can confirm with 100% certainty that when instant respawn was used, the game simply selected the spawn point furthest away every time no matter what. You could snipe the person 4 times a row and they'd still respawn in the same spot. Obviously CoD spawns don't work exactly the same as Halo's-

I'm glad you included a good 50% percent of my argument so I didn't have to type it myself. Everything after this is utter speculation. EDITED BECAUSE I GET OFF TOPIC

Anyway, yes, I do see your point with arguing against deliberate spawns such as that one. But when I say spawn trapping is usually something written in the code on purpose, I must differentiate between exploit and strategy. Strategy usually entails a bit of teamwork to get the spawns the way you want them; exploits are stumbled upon and can usually be used without aid from teammates.

Good for you for finding out you can wait for people to shift positions during the respawn period, opening more respawn points. That's why devs let you sit there and not have you spawn instantaneously.

 

[Bones0]

Well, I agree with the first one. lol The second two are actually deep strategic parts of the game, not mindless micros that players execute subconsciously. It's a no brainer to shoot down choppers as they come inbound. I do it all the time and every time I do, I go "wow, what a waste of a kill streak and secondary and 10 seconds of my life." There's no strategy. No fun.

When someone is hiding behind cover, you can't always just cook a frag. They might jump out at you as you try to throw ordinance. They might have a trophy system. They might flank you while it's cooking and shoot you in the side of the head. You cannot systematically cook a frag every time someone takes cover or you will get **** on.

Same goes for running around corners. You could just rush around it to save time if you are confident no one is in the area, but if they are you put yourself at risk. Once again, this is a strategic decision. You have to have the awareness to know when extra precaution is needed, and you have to know how to prepare the best to increase your chance of survival if someone is around the corner.

 

[Bones0]

I have an idea, too. Let's get rid of the mini-map. And have every gun not make any noise. And no footsteps. In fact, we should all play blindfolded with earplugs.

Showing up on the minimap when you fire is important because it makes players consider if it's safe to fire or not. It prevents the game from being a mindless run and gun. Footsteps differentiate because it dumbs down strategy instead of enhancing it. You don't have to think about how you will move around because moving around becomes a bad strategy.

You should write a book.

I pretty much did. I posted a huge breakdown of the different influences of spawns on the MLG forums.

Anyway, yes, I do see your point with arguing against deliberate spawns such as that one. But when I say spawn trapping is usually something written in the code on purpose, I must differentiate between exploit and strategy. Strategy usually entails a bit of teamwork to get the spawns the way you want them; exploits are stumbled upon and can usually be used without aid from teammates.

Good for you for finding out you can wait for people to shift positions during the respawn period, opening more respawn points. That's why devs let you sit there and not have you spawn instantaneously.

I agree spawn trapping is an intentional part of the game, or at least an accepted byproduct of how the spawn system works (i.e. spawns are, for the most part, predictable). I thought you were saying they purposefully made players spawn near enemies so after players get a kill they are likely to get paybacked.

The waiting was not a result of players moving around. If that were the case, you would be just as likely to get spawn killed after 5 seconds as you would be after half a second.

 

[DSTP]

Showing up on the minimap when you fire is important because it makes players consider if it's safe to fire or not. It prevents the game from being a mindless run and gun. Footsteps differentiate because it dumbs down strategy instead of enhancing it. You don't have to think about how you will move around because moving around becomes a bad strategy.

I agree spawn trapping is an intentional part of the game, or at least an accepted byproduct of how the spawn system works (i.e. spawns are, for the most part, predictable). I thought you were saying they purposefully made players spawn near enemies so after players get a kill they are likely to get paybacked.

The waiting was not a result of players moving around. If that were the case, you would be just as likely to get spawn killed after 5 seconds as you would be after half a second.

Excuse my edits, btw. I'm an editing fiend.

I'm for quieter footsteps all around, personally. Not eradicated. It's a helpful and somewhat realistic element of the game. I don't like sounding like an elephant, though.

Spawning with the person who killed you in your sights is, of course, inexcusable. Spawning close to them is reasonable. As for waiting for your spawn, spawn shifts due to player movement is pretty reliable. But as far as the recent trend of players go, what you said is true. People aren't going to move lol.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Yo Bob, next time we all get on mw3 I need you to help me get a sexy bankshot throwing knife kill off of the top of your godlike Recon Shield Analyzers <3

 

[NOVA1106]

So played terminal for the first time, not impressed.alot of camping.also got a 6 man predator kill on hardhat.

 

[Zatchiel]

You're never ever forced to do anything! In this instance, you have options, including:

-Stealth Perk
-CUAV
-SAM Turret
-Shoot it down with one of at least 2 launchers that can target a UAV efficiently.

If we go with the idea that no perk should counter killstreaks, then you have CUAV, SAM Turret, and launchers. Why is this an issue? Assuming UAVs are weakened as well, even opting not to deal with it is acceptable. Complaining that you have to take mere seconds out of your time (or run a killstreak that does it for you) to deal with a weak killstreak is just *****ing.

With that logic:

"The enemy called in a helicopter! Why should I be forced to take 5 seconds to shoot it down as it's slowly flying towards the map! The developers should get rid of it so we can just play the damn game."

"The enemy was using cover efficiently! Why should I be forced to take 4 seconds to cook a grenade or longer to go around him? The developers should get rid of cover so we can just shoot each other and play the damn game."

And my favorite:

"The enemy was super duper close to me and knifed me before I could shoot him a couple times! Why should I be forced to be extra cautious when moving in close quarters? The developers should just get rid of the Melee attack so we can play the damn game."

Man, I forgot when having balanced options was a bad thing.

I love this.

I also love how you debate, Bob. <3

Spoiler

Pascal's Triangle on the last page. :D

 

[SnackAttack]

Can people PLEASE get on tonight?

 

[Delta-cod]

I'm already online.

Snack get on MW2 plz. Tundra will be joining me soon.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

I wanna play MW2 plzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[DSTP]

For future reference, if you happen to be a randy on our team while our full team is carrying and you still go negative, let's just say the people who developed the IQ scale needed a reference for zero. And you're it.

As for my mic situation, sorry guys. I know it's annoying, but I might start playing without a mic more often. It makes me infinitely more aware of what's going on in the game, plus I love sending hilarious messages. But in full party tryhard mode I'll still plug in and talk, for callouts and the like.

 

[Delta-cod]

Without your voice, my Call of Duty experience is only a shell of the former glory it used to be.

 

[Wretched]

So played terminal for the first time, not impressed.alot of camping.also got a 6 man predator kill on hardhat.

You know a game's community is bad when they can take the exact same map that was once glorious, and purely by manipulating and abusing the game's every little mechanic and overpowered guns/tactics, they make players think that a map is any different than it was before.

Everyone should stop whining about the map itself. Its the exact goddamn same map on a game that is nearly the same game.

ALSO DELTA I JUST WANT TO SAY -CaLlOot- because I asked to play like twice and you still wouldn't say anything, fool.

 

[Matt07]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ie9eof - A list of updates IW plans on doing.

Weapon Balance - We have started our pass on weapons here at the studio and are testing out some changes. We are just hitting ARs and SMGs at first. Our current philosophy on this right now is not to nerf but rather to buff those weapons that are under-performing. Not sure yet on the eta of when these changes will go live.

All I can say is bring back CoD4 M16.

 

[NOVA1106]

Double XP this weekend

 

[Bones0]

I actually haven't minded Terminal too much for SnD, but maybe that's cause people are still trying to rush. lol