Social C. Falcon Social

[ShrieK1295]

@j00t

I don't mean reacting to techs in place, but rather just being able to throw out a move to cover it and still get a grab or something afterward, like in this combo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN0ENOpLd6A#t=1m1s

Given, if you aren't really fast and conscious of spacing, you will often get shined, but it's still worth keeping in mind.

 

[Violence]

Nooooooo Johnny...

We'll bring you back some Midwest tears

**** the LSATs

I heard it's like a ton of logic questions, is that true?

 

[Deleted member]

its not really a test of memorization as opposed to logic so yeah pretty much

kinda cool, but sometimes lame

 

[Zhea]

Hey all,

At what percents does CCing Shiek's uptilt and forward tilt stop working?

At what percents does CCing Peach's/Marth's dash attack stop working?

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

Zhea, that's tough to say

It depends on what part of the f-tilt hits you. and for u-tilt, are you talking about 1st or 2nd hit? Many factors determine this...

 

[FerrishTheFish]

@j00t, you seemed to slightly overuse Falcon Kick recovery to me. The Kicks at 3:30 and 9:13 are a good examples: you didn't actually need the Falcon Kick to help you get back on the stage, and Zidane almost punished you out of it both times. Holding onto your second jump so that you have more leeway to avoid an uair or any other juggle, like you did at around 3:11, would have been better there.

I know you like regrabs, but consider this: stomp does the same % as three regrabs and also sets up for a finisher -> edgeguard, most likely without risking them getting ledge invinc, about 50% earlier (~10 regrabs, unless you pummel, which you might want to consider doing if you're counting on a regrab on reaction rather than a stomp/knee on a read). If you also factor in the fact that you can often regrab after a stomp, I think it becomes clear that a stomp is worth much more than three regrabs. It's one thing for regrabs to be good theoretically and another to actually get out there and regrab peeps to death, and I and probably a lot of other Falcons know this from personal experience. Melee isn't always about what's good theoretically, it's about how well you can judge the balance of risk vs. reward and how well you can tip that balance in your favor (decrease risk and/or increase reward).

Also, you were dropping a lot of edgeguards. Was it nerves or do you just have problems edgeguarding Fox?

 

[Zhea]

Second part for the u-tilt, not sure on the f-tilt. Basically looking at this as a way to get in grab/jab range, so I imagine the tip and the middle portion of the f-tilt.

Been doing this to a local Shiek I play ( not very technical, but great practice for punishing all the stupid options people do, like spot dodge after a down throw or random rolls ), he really likes f-tilt a lot, but I from what I understand u-tilt is the less punishable gtfo move between the two, and I want to know if I can abuse that too.

Peaches dash attack... both for the tip and the close part. Just tired of getting stuffed with this move. Marth... I just want to punish a bad approach.

 

[ShroudedOne]

You can CC her dash attack (the strong part) until 43%. Dunno about the weak hit, but I imagine it's much longer.

 

[Nakamaru]

CCing has never been reliable for me. Everytime i actually try to CC i end up getting knocked on the ground instead of doing the proper CC.

Anyone know why this happens?

 

[unknown522]

Pressing down too late so you ASDI down instead.

That, or you must have been committed to something while getting hit (thus ASDIing down).

 

[j00t]

Also, you were dropping a lot of edgeguards. Was it nerves or do you just have problems edgeguarding Fox?

Combination of both. I'm not as good at edgeguarding spacies as I am against other characters, but I'm usually not as bad at it as was shown in that set.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Combination of both. I'm not as good at edgeguarding spacies as I am against other characters, but I'm usually not as bad at it as was shown in that set.

I like edgeguarding spacies, personally, but the stuff I do probably only applies to spacies at my level--I feel like I use this phrase too often, so I'll try to define it as "around 1300," if y'all are familiar with ssbpd.com. "Grain of salt" deja vu here, since you're just as good as or better than me in a lot of other respects, but to edgeguard you can basically just ignore **** like shine-stall shenanigans and counter everything on reaction.

Spoiler

(dat ain't Marth!)

Spacies tend to telegraph Illusion a bit, so you can react with: dtilt if sweetspotted or slightly above, downslanted ftilt if slightly above sweetspot or on BF where all Illusions are slightly above sweetspot, jab if at stage level, stomp/aerial if they go for a platform, grab if you're amazing, or Falcon Punch if you're a douchebag. Everything except dtilt/stomp is fast enough to dash-attack or whatever if they shorten the Illusion.

Between jumping out at Fire Fox or letting Fox back on the stage, I think letting Fox back on is scarier ... ^_^' You've got 40 frames to do something before he even starts moving. Obviously, you need good reflexes to do anything, but ... edgehog is pretty safe. Weak-knee -> dj uair is also pretty safe. Sometimes, if they're too close or if they're Falco, I like to just run off the ledge, fastfall -> dj uair to cover every trajectory except straight up, but you need super reflexes or a read or a Falco player to pull that off.

 

[Wenbobular]

Falcon vs Fox is like the most fun matchup ever
Every time you do something awesome you feel like you thoroughly deserved it

 

[Juggleguy]

Spacies tend to telegraph Illusion a bit, so you can react with: dtilt if sweetspotted, downslanted ftilt if slightly above sweetspot, jab if at stage level, stomp/aerial if they go for a platform, grab if you're amazing, or Falcon Punch if you're a douchebag.

This is sig worthy.

 

[Violence]

I wanna see like, you predict an illusion, start Falcon Punch, they double jump to go high, but they instinctively shorten it so that it's safer and they can sweet spot the ledge, only to get hit by the punch.

 

[Wenbobular]

Uhh
Shortening is broken and goes through anything

 

[KirbyKaze]

Shortens tend to do bad vs bairs and sex kicks

 

[PB&J]

went all falco last night in a random 1 dollar tourny in Ga that had 27 people. I literally played 7 falcons .

As falcon what is the best way to avoid falco's lasers. I was watching Mango play against falco with falcon and he does alot of up airs,but i dont understand the concept that much.

 

[silentSWAG]

platforms and stage control

turns out that drop threw platform > uair , leads to stuff

 

[S l o X]

powershield EVERYTHING.

 

[Wenbobular]

Learn how to a standing shield drop in at least one direction Johnny
Sometimes you get stuck in shield on a platform between stocks or when you're wavelanding

 

[tarheeljks]

went all falco last night in a random 1 dollar tourny in Ga that had 27 people. I literally played 7 falcons .

As falcon what is the best way to avoid falco's lasers. I was watching Mango play against falco with falcon and he does alot of up airs,but i dont understand the concept that much.

i've been advised to approach with full hops (a la mango/silentspectre). i honestly haven't really gotten this down at all. s2j uses platforms really well and i think it has a similar affect to a full hop approach, but provides greater mobility

powershielding obv also an option if you are capable, but you may just get trapped in shield if not (been happening to me a ton lol b/c i suck at it).

 

[ShrieK1295]

Power shielding is hard because.. well it's not actually that hard, but when you are in a match with pressure on, it's easy as hell to miss, and it sucks to miss -.-

 

[Divinokage]

Usually from what I've found generally. Confidence can help a MASSIVE amount for nervousness and choking. When you trust yourself and your skill, and you are playing in the moment without thinking of any outcome but really just playing.. then you will not choke anything but play even better.

 

[PB&J]

Thanks for the advice,cant wait to what johnny has to say. I guess ill practice shieldropping like rockcrock and ghatzu.

 

[Deleted member]

i dont know **** about percentages

neither do i care

 

[Bob Money]

I feel like when people have problems with lasers, its 99% because they dont understand how this game works. Laser A is not the same as laser B. There are a million different ways to laser. Therefore you cant just say "do this" when they laser.You need to understand why people do lasers in situations. Lasers dont just hit you.

Edit: so I think context maybe videos is important when we are talking about lasers. hard to know which lasers are hitting you.

 

[Scar]

I feel like when people have problems with lasers, its 99% because they dont understand how this game works. Laser A is not the same as laser B. There are a million different ways to laser. There you cant just say "do this" when they laser.You need to understand why people do lasers in situations. Lasers dont just hit you.

qft

someone asked me the other day "how do i get around falco's lasers" and i just said "you don't" - against good falcos, the entire matchup is dealing with the laser. it can't be condensed into one response and it ties into every decision you make, aside from what to do after you hit him.

 

[Deleted member]

either be airborne a lot (esp fd) until you get your grab/ good hit in or just take the lasers/ shield

 

[Morin0]

Alternatively, you can just PS. But I guess it's more practical to do what s2j SAID.

 

[unknown522]

Anyone interested in watching a 40 min vid of yours truly?

Vote now

 

[Deleted member]

Learn how to a standing shield drop in at least one direction Johnny
Sometimes you get stuck in shield on a platform between stocks or when you're wavelanding

unless i truly can't get better in any other way i'd rather not give a **** about shield drops

i know it could be helpful though, i just want to go ****ing quick...

 

[Moooose]

shield drops can help you move faster. you can shield drop out of a dash anywhere on a platform into an aerial instead of having to wait til you get to the end of the platform

 

[Deleted member]

yeah i know but i feel like a ****ing prankster if i actually incorporate it into my game

 

[Wikipedia]

I love this movement that we're trying to make 2012 the year of the Falcon and the activity that's still here in the falcon boards. I've been reading a lot but haven't posted too much.

But one thing that really seems to evade me is the use of Uair. I can see you, S2j, use it all the time and Hax uses it a ton. As it appears to me, the correct use of Uair is what separates the best falcons from everyone else.

Specifically with peach, how do you get Uair off fast enough after down-throw and what's the spacing? Do you want to try to just tip her with the feet or with the body to keep juggling? When peach is on a platform, usually it's not safe at all to try to come from under her but are the feet of Uair disjointed enough for poking when well spaced?

It seems to me too that Uair hits straight out in front of falcon initially because I've seen Hax short hob straight at a standing opponent and hit them with a Uair. It doesn't seem to me in the hitbox image thread that it effectively shows that Uair has a hitbox like that but I see it used all the time that way but only usually by high level falcons.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

It doesn't seem to me in the hitbox image thread that it effectively shows that Uair has a hitbox like that but I see it used all the time that way but only usually by high level falcons.

Bull****.

I use that **** all the time, I'm not a high-level Falcon.

We had a discussion a few pages back on how to do it.

 

[Wikipedia]

I don't doubt that you use Uair (maybe even all the time) but you don't use it like S2J and Hax, I've only seen high level falcons utilize the front hitbox of the Uair as well as they do.

 

[Wenbobular]

unless i truly can't get better in any other way i'd rather not give a **** about shield drops

i know it could be helpful though, i just want to go ****ing quick...

I think being able to shield drop adds a dimension to your platform game that takes away all the unsafe cheap platform traps people like to do

i.e. I don't think it's actually a gimmick but a very useful tool people should be using all the time

But if it's not your style then whatever haha

As for using Uair .... if you think they're going to jump, Uair will **** them
It's really good when you think they're going to jump OoS because probably won't be CCing (or can't because they're in the air, whatever) and catching someone in the air with Uair is always nice
If they just sit in shield and you do one you can just cross them up and run away usually

Trying to catch people dashdancing is way harder because you have to space it mad good to scoop their head, but if you can manage it it's also super **** because Falcon doesn't normally have a move that hits that fast at that height
It's pretty good for getting Foxes off your back I think but only if you can actually hit with it

 

[Morin0]

kind of surprised s2j sees shield dropping as a gimmick/cheap

 

[FerrishTheFish]

I don't doubt that you use Uair (maybe even all the time) but you don't use it like S2J and Hax, I've only seen high level falcons utilize the front hitbox of the Uair as well as they do.

Yes I do, I do insta-uairs that hit people on the way up, that "utilize the front hitbox of the uair" like s2j and Hax. The kind where you can sh uair and dj before you land again. You don't need to be a high-level Falcon to do that. It's not that difficult. We had a discussion a few pages back on how to do it.