Brawlplusery Official Codeset 5.0 RC1 Discussion

[Chileno4Live]

Is Luigi's Dthrow fixed in 5.0? Because the Dthow > UpB combo is awesome in 4.1, a bit to awesome XD.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

um...that's not a combo....you can DI up and away, and the only thing you can get hit by is an aerial...

his up b has too much lag to be a true combo.

And everytime I see your username I think it says "Chili 4 Life" >.>

 

[5ive]

Toronto+ is still alive.
You got trolled.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/im5ive

 

[GHNeko]

Screw off 5ive.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

could someone please try out my landing lag .pacs? I think they might be useful to you guys. D:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N5OQM6IC

 

[-Chad-]

Samus needs help >_>

Bombs have little to no use. I'm unsure if they're actually helpful for recovering or not but most of the time it's a bad idea because they don't blow up on contact with enemies, and it makes Samus vulnerable for a loooong time after bomb jumping. (seriously try bomb jumping and mashing A for a nair, it's a LONG time). This means just about any char can jump out and just hit you or spike you or something you.

What is d-smash good for?

Her aerials are slow, and have a fair amount of lag afterwords. For how mediocre most of her aerials are (At least how they are now) I don't see why this is. She doesn't really have a dependable aerial that can kill either. B-air is pretty good but it's very hard to set it up to hit on most chars. N-air is easier to land but significantly weaker.

U-air is currently annoying the hell out of me because it's really hard to hit the last hit which has hitstun, which means a lot of chars can easily n-air out and punish you for it. Also doesn't help that her u-air is fairly easy to DI or smash DI out of which further aggravates the problem.

D-tilt has too much lag after to be useful most of the time.

I wish smash missiles could be shot lower to the ground, which I guess means shot faster in the air. They're only really good after you hit someone off the stage or up high because of it.

Why do homing missiles and smash missiles shoot at the same speed while on the ground?

If I remember more Samus stuff that's bugging me I'll post again I guess but for now this is the stuff that's really been annoying me with this character. I wanted to go all Samus at a tourny I just went to but couldn't because I wouldn't have stood a chance.

Also holy crap Ness is so ridiculous now. His f-air has like no knockback ever so it always leads to something no matter what. His d-air spike is extremely powerful (by the way how the crap do you meteor cancel? Mash it or what? I couldn't do it for crap), and has some weird side hitbox that can send you at a crazy angle with the same hitstun that his d-air has.

 

[CloneHat]

I disagree with most of your claims, though lower super missiles would be nice.

 

[-Chad-]

It will take more than just you disagreeing to persuade me to see differently.

 

[metaXzero]

Samus' bombs (along with most prop projectiles) still can't be modded. We've been saying this for several months now.

D-Smash is a GTFO move?

Unlike Melee, Meteor cancels take a bit of time after getting hit before you can do them.

That's all I can answer.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Samus needs help >_>

Bombs have little to no use. I'm unsure if they're actually helpful for recovering or not but most of the time it's a bad idea because they don't blow up on contact with enemies, and it makes Samus vulnerable for a loooong time after bomb jumping. (seriously try bomb jumping and mashing A for a nair, it's a LONG time). This means just about any char can jump out and just hit you or spike you or something you.

What is d-smash good for?

Her aerials are slow, and have a fair amount of lag afterwords. For how mediocre most of her aerials are (At least how they are now) I don't see why this is. She doesn't really have a dependable aerial that can kill either. B-air is pretty good but it's very hard to set it up to hit on most chars. N-air is easier to land but significantly weaker.

U-air is currently annoying the hell out of me because it's really hard to hit the last hit which has hitstun, which means a lot of chars can easily n-air out and punish you for it. Also doesn't help that her u-air is fairly easy to DI or smash DI out of which further aggravates the problem.

D-tilt has too much lag after to be useful most of the time.

I wish smash missiles could be shot lower to the ground, which I guess means shot faster in the air. They're only really good after you hit someone off the stage or up high because of it.

Why do homing missiles and smash missiles shoot at the same speed while on the ground?

If I remember more Samus stuff that's bugging me I'll post again I guess but for now this is the stuff that's really been annoying me with this character. I wanted to go all Samus at a tourny I just went to but couldn't because I wouldn't have stood a chance.

Also holy crap Ness is so ridiculous now. His f-air has like no knockback ever so it always leads to something no matter what. His d-air spike is extremely powerful (by the way how the crap do you meteor cancel? Mash it or what? I couldn't do it for crap), and has some weird side hitbox that can send you at a crazy angle with the same hitstun that his d-air has.

on top of all of this my friend also was requesting a stronger nair than she currently has. he's used to melee nair and even with the B+ buffs it still feels too weak to him.

 

[-Chad-]

Samus' bombs (along with most prop projectiles) still can't be modded. We've been saying this for several months now.

D-Smash is a GTFO move?

Unlike Melee, Meteor cancels take a bit of time after getting hit before you can do them.

That's all I can answer.

That's awful about Samus' bombs...she could definitively use them but if they can't be modded T_T

Thing about d-smash is it just seems like there's always a better option with less lag.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

It seems to me like you want us to fix every little nitpicky problem you have about her. which probably won't happen.

although I do agree that bombs need to be fixed when possible.

 

[CloneHat]

A reliable killer would be cool.

Though in case you haven't noticed, Nair STOPS MK's tornado as is.

 

[FrozenHobo]

my friend doesn't care about nair's priority, he wants it to actually have some decent knockback

 

[SymphonicSage12]

well, your friend's opinion doesn't necessarily have enough PRIORITY to convince the WBR.

c wut i did thar

 

[GHNeko]

Samus needs help >_>

Bombs have little to no use. I'm unsure if they're actually helpful for recovering or not but most of the time it's a bad idea because they don't blow up on contact with enemies, and it makes Samus vulnerable for a loooong time after bomb jumping. (seriously try bomb jumping and mashing A for a nair, it's a LONG time). This means just about any char can jump out and just hit you or spike you or something you.

...we cant mod bombs yet.

What is d-smash good for?

gtfo move and roll punishing.

Her aerials are slow, and have a fair amount of lag afterwords. For how mediocre most of her aerials are (At least how they are now) I don't see why this is. She doesn't really have a dependable aerial that can kill either. B-air is pretty good but it's very hard to set it up to hit on most chars. N-air is easier to land but significantly weaker.

lrn2SHFF. FF Fair > Dtilt is legit. Bair is fairly quick all the way around and you can combo into it. Nair is Nair. It's a sex kick that comes out in a few frames. Dair is a meteor, most meteors tend to have some start up. Uair is pretty fast imo.

U-air is currently annoying the hell out of me because it's really hard to hit the last hit which has hitstun, which means a lot of chars can easily n-air out and punish you for it. Also doesn't help that her u-air is fairly easy to DI or smash DI out of which further aggravates the problem.

Uair is better suited at lower percents. Some attacks just work better are certain percents.

D-tilt has too much lag after to be useful most of the time.

Dont miss with it. And it has a ton of shield stun too.

I wish smash missiles could be shot lower to the ground, which I guess means shot faster in the air. They're only really good after you hit someone off the stage or up high because of it.

idk about this. I kinda agree actually.

Why do homing missiles and smash missiles shoot at the same speed while on the ground?

Because that's how the missles are? We havent changed them yet.

If I remember more Samus stuff that's bugging me I'll post again I guess but for now this is the stuff that's really been annoying me with this character. I wanted to go all Samus at a tourny I just went to but couldn't because I wouldn't have stood a chance.

k

Also holy crap Ness is so ridiculous now. His f-air has like no knockback ever so it always leads to something no matter what. His d-air spike is extremely powerful (by the way how the crap do you meteor cancel? Mash it or what? I couldn't do it for crap), and has some weird side hitbox that can send you at a crazy angle with the same hitstun that his d-air has.

We're fixing Ness Fair. :V

 

[SymphonicSage12]

meteor cancel:

press jump at the right time, or just mash up b. D:

 

[Alphatron]

I'd rather the Samus/Zamus pac loading issue be fixed before anything else is done to Samus. Are bombs even located in Samus' pac file or in common3.pac?

 

[-Chad-]

It seems to me like you want us to fix every little nitpicky problem you have about her. which probably won't happen.

although I do agree that bombs need to be fixed when possible.

Well no, I don't really expect that to happen.

But I mean they basically fixed everything about Ganondorf..like every problem that made him unappealing to play..

Yknow what I'm getting at. I just thought I'd bring up my frustrations with the character thus far. I really really like playing Samus, it just seems with some of the flaws she has she can't match up to a lot of the other characters at the moment. I'm not saying make her a god, I'm just bringing up what I think are some legitimate concerns (maybe they're not I dunno).

I'm hoping I'm not coming off the wrong way :X I really like B+ and what's been done so far :D

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Ganondorf still has several problems...just sayin...

1.he still runs like an old grandma.
2. fair and dair have high endlag in proportion to his other aerials.
3. his down throw doesn't combo at as ridiculous percents anymore.
4. we removed the endlag speedups on his down b.
5. we made his side b techable again.
6. his neutral b is still useless.
7. we remove the up tilt IASA.
8. his down tilt still has a lot of endlag.
9. he has horrible horizontal momentum.

 

[GHNeko]

Ganondorf still has several problems...just sayin...

1.he still runs like an old grandma.
2. fair and dair have high endlag in proportion to his other aerials.
3. his down throw doesn't combo at as ridiculous percents anymore.
4. we removed the endlag speedups on his down b.
5. we made his side b techable again.
6. his neutral b is still useless.
7. we remove the up tilt IASA.
8. his down tilt still has a lot of endlag.
9. he has horrible horizontal momentum.

1. He's a slow runner. k.
2. The end lag of fair is proportionate to how strong the **** thing is. And for Dair? *facepalm* lrn2thunderclap
3. But it combos better in general and can even CG people.
4. Because it didn't need it because the move can kill on ground and spike in air?
5. To remove E-Z mode set ups from his side B.
6. Situational. Not useless.
7. Because it was un-natural and really dumb looking and threw the risk:reward ratio of the move completely out of wack.
8. Dont miss.
9. ...UH NO HE DOESNT.

You don't even play ganon, kid. wtf.

 

[IstariAsuka]

I think the discussion about Samus is a little misplaced. I don't think she's super weak like some people are asserting, and possibly not weak at all.

The thing is that Samus is freaking hard to play right. Just like in Melee, using her anywhere close to well is difficult, and you rarely see someone who is really, really competent with Samus. I don't think we have enough data to judge her well at all, really.

I've played against a very competent melee samus player in B+, and after he adjusted he made her look pretty awesome. At least in the build at the time (4.1ish? maybe a little earlier) she was pretty excellent at abusing shieldstun, creating shield pressure or getting a hit in if the shield was already low. The only real problems he had with her was that you couldn't landing-cancel the missles like you could in Melee, and being so used to that the new timing was very unnatural. The other was a similar quibble about bombs, mostly in regards to bomb jumping.

I think you all should give Samus a serious chance in some tournaments where we see her played by someone talented, before passing judgment. She's a very hard character.

 

[shanus]

I'd rather the Samus/Zamus pac loading issue be fixed before anything else is done to Samus. Are bombs even located in Samus' pac file or in common3.pac?

We have a fixed pac file we plan to upload soon.

 

[GHNeko]

IstariAsuka wins the current page of this thread.

 

[BEES]

So is ALR gone or what? I missed that memo.

It seems like every aerial attack now has its Brawl landing lag again. Either that or I have this installed wrong.

 

[B3Brawler]

1. He's a slow runner. k.
2. Situational. Not useless.
   

You don't even play ganon, kid. wtf.

-fast people>slow people
-like falco's Fair lololol

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

Ganondorf still has several problems...just sayin...

1.he still runs like an old grandma.
2. fair and dair have high endlag in proportion to his other aerials.
3. his down throw doesn't combo at as ridiculous percents anymore.
4. we removed the endlag speedups on his down b.
5. we made his side b techable again.
6. his neutral b is still useless.
7. we remove the up tilt IASA.
8. his down tilt still has a lot of endlag.
9. he has horrible horizontal momentum.

10. He is a giant target.

and while Neko already adressed most of these, I'd like to bring attention to number six.
sure its techable, but if they tech forward, they get wiztruck'd (down B), if they tech in place or behind Ganon, they get murder choked again. Don't forget they also powered up Side B to compensate for the loss of guaranteed D-tilt. He can also jab you immediately after if he chooses to instead of techchasing you, which could lead to an edgeguard, which Ganon is surprisingly amazing at imo.

Ganon punishes hard now, but he still needs to get inside to deal that kind of damage, and well, he isn't the fastest of characters and his approach isn't all that amazing. And if Ganon screws up, he gets comboed really badly.

 

[CloneHat]

Guys SS was just making that post to prove a point. That guy above posted a bunch of things he didn't like about Samus in a similar format, and he was just trying to show that this nitpicking could be done with any character, even ones that are generally accepted as balanced.

 

[WheelOfFish]

IstariAsuka wins the current page of this thread.

You have to admit it's a little ridiculous that Samus's fast fall is slower than Jigglypuff's...

 

[PKNintendo]

Once you guys fix Ness fair Ness PK Flash needs to be fixed in return. -_-

The change list mocks me.

 

[GHNeko]

You have to admit it's a little ridiculous that Samus's fast fall is slower than Jigglypuff's...

Because Jigg's FF was increased recently? It never was like that until the changes happened.

 

[MK26]

So is ALR gone or what? I missed that memo.

It seems like every aerial attack now has its Brawl landing lag again. Either that or I have this installed wrong.

Secind option.

Did you grab the PAC files? Or better yet, the autoinstaller at Brawlplus.net?

 

[BEES]

didn't grab the pac files or gameconfig.txt

I'll see if that fixes things.

 

[Shell]

Guys SS was just making that post to prove a point. That guy above posted a bunch of things he didn't like about Samus in a similar format, and he was just trying to show that this nitpicking could be done with any character, even ones that are generally accepted as balanced.

To prove a point...? What point? Most of the things he said were either non-issues or the opposite of what was true. I wouldn't try to defend that post if I were you.

 

[CloneHat]

Do you not understand? He was writing in response to THIS post, showing how he thought many of the points were invalid.

Samus needs help >_>

Bombs have little to no use. I'm unsure if they're actually helpful for recovering or not but most of the time it's a bad idea because they don't blow up on contact with enemies, and it makes Samus vulnerable for a loooong time after bomb jumping. (seriously try bomb jumping and mashing A for a nair, it's a LONG time). This means just about any char can jump out and just hit you or spike you or something you.

What is d-smash good for?

Her aerials are slow, and have a fair amount of lag afterwords. For how mediocre most of her aerials are (At least how they are now) I don't see why this is. She doesn't really have a dependable aerial that can kill either. B-air is pretty good but it's very hard to set it up to hit on most chars. N-air is easier to land but significantly weaker.

U-air is currently annoying the hell out of me because it's really hard to hit the last hit which has hitstun, which means a lot of chars can easily n-air out and punish you for it. Also doesn't help that her u-air is fairly easy to DI or smash DI out of which further aggravates the problem.

D-tilt has too much lag after to be useful most of the time.

I wish smash missiles could be shot lower to the ground, which I guess means shot faster in the air. They're only really good after you hit someone off the stage or up high because of it.

Why do homing missiles and smash missiles shoot at the same speed while on the ground?

If I remember more Samus stuff that's bugging me I'll post again I guess but for now this is the stuff that's really been annoying me with this character. I wanted to go all Samus at a tourny I just went to but couldn't because I wouldn't have stood a chance.

Also holy crap Ness is so ridiculous now. His f-air has like no knockback ever so it always leads to something no matter what. His d-air spike is extremely powerful (by the way how the crap do you meteor cancel? Mash it or what? I couldn't do it for crap), and has some weird side hitbox that can send you at a crazy angle with the same hitstun that his d-air has.

 

[freezinboi280]

i'm not sure why, but sometimes when I try to access training mode, it seems to freeze the game and make a loud beep for me. i'm not sure if this is just brawl+'s code or if it applies to all codes, but it does happen. one way you can test this is by continously entering/exiting the training mode character selection screen. sometimes it just happens on the first attempt. I also tested this out w/o any character psa's/textures, and just the code itself, and it still happens.

 

[leafgreen386]

i'm not sure why, but sometimes when I try to access training mode, it seems to freeze the game and make a loud beep for me. i'm not sure if this is just brawl+'s code or if it applies to all codes, but it does happen. one way you can test this is by continously entering/exiting the training mode character selection screen. sometimes it just happens on the first attempt. I also tested this out w/o any character psa's/textures, and just the code itself, and it still happens.

Yeah, it's known. If you're pressing buttons while the CSS is loading that can happen. It also happens when going into vs mode.

 

[dori.]

I'm getting freezes on the stage select screen also, freezes that did not occur on the original version of 5.0.

(I'm using the latest one from the main site, the one with the "what is a buffer?" screen in place of the "wear a strap" screen)

 

[Isatis]

If you somehow downloaded the Without Homebrew option (3) instead of Gecko OS (1) here's how to fix it:

Go into X:\private\wii\app\RSBE\st\

Rename st_exploit.bin to stage_exploit.bin

If you don't see that file, or chose Gecko OS, it might be some other problem.

 

[ChakramStrike]

is there a version with just the changes to Meta Knight?