Brawl+ Stage Legality Discussion: Brawl+ 7.0 Gold Discussion (Go Discuss Everything!)

[FrozenHobo]

dunno. can you help me with this code:

The Roadway [Phantom Wings]
4A000000 90180F3A
38000000 FF000031
48000000 805B8ADC
DE000000 80008180
14000BD4 00000000
14000BD8 43100000
4A100000 00000378
18000004 52000000
201D003C 00000000
E0000000 80008000

i need it so the falcon flyer is low enough that the characters can spawn on it.

 

[Isatis]

Wrong thread for that question, Hobo.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Q&A thread? nobody ever posts anything helpful in there regarding editing code.

 

[Isatis]

Rules state if after 48 hours your question is not answered and is in the right place, you may either ask for an un-lock to the topic or create a new topic and I will not lock it until the question is answered. (You may even quote me on this if you do create a new topic.) =P

 

[FrozenHobo]

k. thanks for the information.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Rules state if after 48 hours your question is not answered and is in the right place, you may either ask for an un-lock to the topic or create a new topic and I will not lock it until the question is answered. (You may even quote me on this if you do create a new topic.) =P

Why does it feel like i've been born yesterday..lol

 

[Alphatron]

Yo Hobo, use brawlbox to edit the spawn points for the characters.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Yo Hobo, use brawlbox to edit the spawn points for the characters.

where is a tutorial on how to A) do that and B) fix death boundaries?

 

[Alphatron]

There's no tutorial, but according to E. Yoshi, its in the XYZ coordinates for the stage.

I'd test myself, but...

 

[goodoldganon]

I skimmed through the topic and couldn't find out why we don't like Halberd and Castle Siege. They seemed pretty legit to me as CPs. I especially think CS is more legit then Delfino. Delfino has:

-Water, though not everywhere or around all the time it still sucks
-The main platform can be passed through and there is virtually nothing a decent chunk of the cast can do to many characters as they pass through the floor
-I don't know how others feel but I can't stand the pillars in the water section. It's a massive king of the hill camp fest.

Don't get me wrong, I think Delfino is a good counterpick I just don't know about it over CS. The only possible problem one could have with CS is 2nd transformation and blast zone camping, but I've never personally had a problem there.

That being said I'm glad that Cape's list focus's on quality over quantity. I hated how many stages were considered legal before and how many more people wanted to add with some fixes.

 

[K.Mac]

I skimmed through the topic and couldn't find out why we don't like Halberd and Castle Siege. They seemed pretty legit to me as CPs. I especially think CS is more legit then Delfino. Delfino has:

-Water, though not everywhere or around all the time it still sucks
-The main platform can be passed through and there is virtually nothing a decent chunk of the cast can do to many characters as they pass through the floor
-I don't know how others feel but I can't stand the pillars in the water section. It's a massive king of the hill camp fest.

Don't get me wrong, I think Delfino is a good counterpick I just don't know about it over CS. The only possible problem one could have with CS is 2nd transformation and blast zone camping, but I've never personally had a problem there.

That being said I'm glad that Cape's list focus's on quality over quantity. I hated how many stages were considered legal before and how many more people wanted to add with some fixes.

IMO:

On Halberd, the main problem is when the platform settles on the Halberd deck, because of the stage hazards - the bomb, the laser and the claw thing. I've played Brawl+ enough to know that it's a very good stage but the stage hazards can effectively wreck a game (I've experienced it ...)

Unless someone is planning (or has already succeeded) in removing the hazards at that stage, I can only think that the problem lies with that some characters have trouble recovering due to the lack of auto ledgesnapping (Fox / Falco's phantasms as a primary example) which means some characters basically cannot recover whilst the map is flying around the halberd and not set on it.


On the subject of castle siege, I wouldn't say no to you guys simply hacking out the 2nd part of the map (so that it just rotates between first and third).


Just my two cents, I'm probably waaaaaaaaaaaay off though.

 

[The Cape]

Castle Siege seems to mostly be a run away kind of stage and Junglefield fills that role better (with more options too)

First stage of CS is the only one really worth having as the second is large with walk offs and has potential circle camping routes. The final stage has the same basic issues as Lylat as well.

Halberd has active hazards and is generally smaller than Delphino, which is why I had picked it. Good with either stage though, just not both.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Besides PTAD+, and the fixing of Sky World+'s ledges auto grabbing during hitstun, I was always interested in the first part of Castle Siege, and ONLY THE FIRST PART. I think that part defines the Fire Emblem series, is unique, and can be modified, if needed to become a really good stage by itself.

+1 PTAD+
+1 Fixing Sky World+'s ledges.
+1 1st part of Castle Siege ONLY

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Oh yeah, why not replace Halberd with SSE Halberd? It seems stable enough.
Though it completely defeats its purpose of being different than FD so I dunno

either that or if Santa Claus could take off the HitBoxes of the Claw, Laser, Bomb etc...

 

[camelot]

...or if you guys could learn to avoid the hazards...

You can easily see them coming, and they aren't nearly as bad as the cars on Port Town. They're fine.

Edit: Yes, I realize they can decide the fate of the match, but they aren't hard at all to avoid. Toss your opponent in them, or get tossed in by your opponent, whatever. Taking out the hazards doesn't necessarily make it "more fair", since both players can take advantage of them. Taking them out just makes the stage more boring.

 

[DarkDragoon]

...or if you guys could learn to avoid the hazards...

You can easily see them coming, and they aren't nearly as bad as the cars on Port Town. They're fine.

Edit: Yes, I realize they can decide the fate of the match, but they aren't hard at all to avoid. Toss your opponent in them, or get tossed in by your opponent, whatever. Taking out the hazards doesn't necessarily make it "more fair", since both players can take advantage of them. Taking them out just makes the stage more boring.

This. Battlefield is legit with its hazards. Its hardly random, and they're super easy to avoid.

If you get hit by them and your opponent didn't make you do it, lrn2play.
-DD

 

[Shadic]

Edit: Yes, I realize they can decide the fate of the match-

This old match of mine makes me cry. (Jump to 5:00) Also it was cross-US Wifi and laggy and etc. (johns)

I think being toned down a bit wouldn't be too bad.

 

[Alphatron]

Delfino won over Halberd due to having similarities(sharking, etc) but being more fair. There are parts of Delfino that promote obvious camping, whereas Halberd has nothing like that(the walk off is a non factor). I prefer Halberd for that alone.

While Halberd and LC may be my favorite overall stages, I'd argue for Frigate first. That, and the restoration of Palkia/Dialga and a fast Big Blue.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Didn't Halberd have the least walk-offs? I believe that Halberd should be fairer except that we need a solution for those hazards. Walk-off value or more stage hazards? It'd have to be the one with more stage hazards instead

 

[Alphatron]

Halberd has a walk off for the first few seconds and trying to boundary camp them results in the stage killing you instantly.

 

[goodoldganon]

I sat down for a long time today and last night debating Cape's stage list with myself and I think I have come with the best Brawl+ stage list. My stage list tries to accomplish many of things Capes did:

-First I want to try and keep the most fair neutrals but keep the odd number.

-Second I wanted to figure out which types of counterpicks favored a certain playstyle and then not allow more then 1 of them in the CP section. The major reason is just that having 2 stages that favor the same playstyle is unneeded. I love having Nintendo fangasms as much as the next guy but in a competitive environment I just want the best of the best stages. I really don't like the idea of adding 2 stage strikes to the CP section. Just doesn't sit well with me.

-I removed Capes 'TO choice' stages. If they were decent stages I tried to combine them with another stage that plays similarly. The principle is that a TO will choose between one of those two stages, but never both.

And with that I offer you Goodoldganon Revised Stage Select

(you will need to go to this post to see the SSE stages I am talking about http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9040797&postcount=91)

Starters
Battlefield
Smashville
Pokemon Stadium 2

Final Destination will be replaced with the SSE stadium. There are 2 major reasons to this. First it gets rid of the recovery eating sides. Those sides were a little unfair in my opinion to some recoveries (Wolf) The second is that you can not pass under the stage. In my experience passing under the stage is nothing more then a clock runner, so anything to slightly help alleviate is good in my book.

Yoshi Island:Brawl will be replaced with the second Shadow Bug stage. One of the unique things about YI:B was the walls going to the blast zones and the shadow bug stages all have that. This stage is kinda of like a love child between Lylat Cruise and YI:B except without all the dumb stuff. From YI:B it removes the Shy Guys, random tilting platforming, the bumpy main platform, and Roger and Steve (the ghosts that save people) It removes the awful tipping in Lylat and how it eats recoveries and ruins ACing aerials, but it keeps the similar triple platform style.

Counterpicks
Stages that fall into the 'similar' category are separated by a backslash. The TO can decide which stage to include, but never include both. If for some reason the TO is dead set on including both, the two stages may be banned as a pair. There is only one strike in the CP section.

Wario Ware / Castle Siege frozen on the first stop
Brinstar
Delphino Plaza / Halberd
SSE Jungle
Rainbow Cruise


I had a hard time deciding if I could leave Mansion, Skyworld+, and Japes in, so I am open to debate about that 3 stages.

Japes's platforms make circle camping way too easy and potent in that stage. We ban stalling but no sense letting it be used till the person gets reprimanded.

If we could ever have a code that made the bottom pillars in Mansion destroyable before the top ones but without that the stage is too easy to abuse and straight up seal off approach tactics.

Skyworld+ allows for way too easy of planking due to hitlag allowing you to snap to edges still. If we ever fix grabbing ledges during hitlag I'd probably add that to the list.

Well there is my idea. Thoughts? Opinions? Flames?

 

[The Cape]

Flames?

Well you asked for it >.>

Mansion is not a good stage for tournies at all. If you have to destroy the stage just to approach your opponent (think Pikachu and ROB for example) then what is the point of even allowing this stage?

The ledges on Jungle Japes leads to circle camping with Fox and Falco (and with the ease of grabbing ledges, and the water saving mistakes) its just a bad choice.

Skyworld+ = hitlag autosnap. Banned until fixed I think.

I really like this updated version of the stage list as it keeps all the good things and removes alot of the bad, plus some variety. Also like the idea of having the paired stages that could both be allowed but banned as a pair for one ban. Only issue with that is, its a bit complicated. Something that needs debated for sure.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Replacing Final Destination!? O__o

*loads his RPG, aims towards that section and blows it to smithereenies*

Okay, now it's perfect. ¦3

 

[goodoldganon]

Replacing Final Destination!? O__o

*loads his RPG, aims towards that section and blows it to smithereenies*

Okay, now it's perfect. ¦3

Go look at the SSE Stadium stage. It's Final D that you can't fly under and doesn't eat recoveries. It's a perfect replacement.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i like the idea of using SSE stages in place of regular stages (lol @ sakurai making adventure mode stages more competitive than the actual stages).


my questio is, do you plan to make PACs to load these stages over the ones they're going to replace, or use PW's stage rosted code to add them?

 

[K.Mac]

Go look at the SSE Stadium stage. It's Final D that you can't fly under and doesn't eat recoveries. It's a perfect replacement.

So long as SSE Stadium doesn't actually replace FD on the stage select, because for the sake of cosmetics I like it. Make it replace a banned stage (like 75m or something).

I also find it amusing how you guys are now considering Stadium even though I distinctly recall a while ago suggesting it, only to be told that it had been considered and rejected because - and I quote - "It would only be another neutral."

Excuse my french here, but I do agree that the underside of FD pisses me off quite a bit - but it's just the way it is. Some characters recover worse than others on FD - why not make it a CP instead of a neutral?

___

And I will probably get trolled for asking this, but on the subject of the suggested tourney stages, will those (such as SSE stadium) work in B+ without having to change anything? I ask this simply because I use a snaploader to boot the game, so adding codes to B+ to change stuff is impossible for me.
If all I need to do is paste the stage into the stages folder and rename it to the WWR to make it work, I am going to get SSE Stadium right now.


[edit]

my questio is, do you plan to make PACs to load these stages over the ones they're going to replace, or use PW's stage rosted code to add them?

This is just my opinion; but assuming how SSE Jungle was implemented, the stages will be added as PAC files on the SD card.

I could be wrong though.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Definitely agree with Castle Siege frozen on the first part. Please, make it happen.

I think Sky World could be a really great CP if the ledges get fixed, and I'm really hoping that they do, as I used to CP in our weeklies in every Sunday.

PTAD+? Cars weakened, or no cars at all? Please. The no ledges SHOULD NOT be an excuse for this stage being banned. Mute City (Melee) didn't have tether recovery specific characters, but they had characters with recoveries just as bad, if not worse, when on that stage. Ex: Roy. And also, Mute City's main platform was much smaller and cramped. PTAD's main platform is quite long, actually. I think it'd make a great CP.

And yay to no more FD. I hated it anyway. And one with better ledges/less camping underneath, just in case, is always a good thing.

Oh, and what about Green Greens? I hate it anyway, so I don't care, but I'm curious.

And lastly, definitely happy to see no WiFi-Stalling Room. =]

 

[FrozenHobo]

Definitely agree with Castle Siege frozen on the first part. Please, make it happen.

I think Sky World could be a really great CP if the ledges get fixed, and I'm really hoping that they do, as I used to CP in our weeklies in every Sunday.

PTAD+? Cars weakened, or no cars at all? Please. The no ledges SHOULD NOT be an excuse for this stage being banned. Mute City (Melee) didn't have tether recovery specific characters, but they had characters with recoveries just as bad, if not worse, when on that stage. Ex: Roy. And also, Mute City's main platform was much smaller and cramped. PTAD's main platform is quite long, actually. I think it'd make a great CP.

And yay to no more FD. I hated it anyway. And one with better ledges/less camping underneath, just in case, is always a good thing.

Oh, and what about Green Greens? I hate it anyway, so I don't care, but I'm curious.

And lastly, definitely happy to see no WiFi-Stalling Room. =]

i'm trying out a Green Greens right now with no blocks, apples, or wind. it changes the stage considerably, but its still playable.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Oh, what about Distant Planet+ as well? Always has water, bulborb gone (?), right side boundaries smaller to fit with the main platform better. Maybe reduced ceiling boundaries as well?

I'm so happy to hear Castle Siege might be getting frozen on its first part.

 

[FrozenHobo]

DP+ was going to be (iirc):

Constant water but different angle
No bulborb
Death Boundary fix

what can be done with brawlbox, though, i move the main platform to the right/make it bigger, which would be good imo.

 

[The Cape]

Port Town should never be a tourney stage

poor ivy

 

[RPGsFTW]

DP+ was going to be (iirc):

Constant water but different angle
No bulborb
Death Boundary fix

what can be done with brawlbox, though, i move the main platform to the right/make it bigger, which would be good imo.

I like this idea. I'd like it to go into effect. =]

And PTAD wouldn't be that bad for Ivy. Dair stall until you get a landing, and his Up-B still boosts him up slightly, last I checked. I think the stage sounds usable if fixed.

The more GOOD, working, stages, the better, I'd say.

- Castle Siege (1st part only)
- Fixed Sky World ledges
- PTAD+
- Distant Planet +
- Whatever else can be salvaged for good fights. The more the merrier!

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Go look at the SSE Stadium stage. It's Final D that you can't fly under and doesn't eat recoveries. It's a perfect replacement.

I've played on it plenty of times and that has no grounds on my thoughts. Replacing Final Destination is a HUGE no-no. Nothing wrong with the Stadium stage, but it doesn't deserve to replace FD. Besides, why fix what isn't broken? -.o

 

[VietGeek]

If you must have an answer to that, it's because we (the project) have gone down that path countless times before anyway.

I have no opinion on that however.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

If you must have an answer to that, it's because we (the project) have gone down that path countless times before anyway.

I have no opinion on that however.

That's a bull**** answer. I'd even say it's not an answer at all. XD

Then again, nothing really gets through to you guys, does it? While I utterly despise and oppose of replacing FD with such an inferior stage, it's not like I can't just not replace it myself. So it all works out. ¦D

 

[Alphatron]

I'm liking GoG's stage list idea very much.

Just so you know Wave, Stadium CAN'T replace FD. The pac was made to replace WWR. So don't worry about anything getting removed.

Unfortunately for you, PW's code is in fact the way to go, but it can still work with the snapshot loader just fine.

Skyworld+ is hilarious right now. PKT2 with Ness=pissed off opponents. I don't like freezing CS. Another SSE stage perhaps?

 

[Alphatron]

By the way, certain things that need to and hopefully will be cut.

MK 1 slowdown
Big Blue slowdown
Spear Pillar freeze(until SP+ is actually possible)

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Just so you know Wave, Stadium CAN'T replace FD. The pac was made to replace WWR. So don't worry about anything getting removed.

I'm sure some stubborn jackoff will do everything in their power to MAKE it replace FD. ¦D

 

[Veril]

Except... no. Replace FD? I loled.


The major issue I see here is that people believe: the more viable stages the better, when this is simply not ideal from a balance perspective. Cape completely explained his reasoning, the stage-list reflects the CP systems impact on matchups, its not merely including whatever stage isn't bad enough to warrant a ban.

 

[MK26]

I'm sure some stubborn jackoff will do everything in their power to MAKE it replace FD. ¦D

heh...

its already possible with the sss code

i can completely remove fd and use the freed texture slots to make it seems like susbspace stadium (which is a muxh better name than sse stadium btw) was always there

and i think it makes sense, actually
not that its completely needed, tho

and yall can expect a huge, informative rant later tonight
mobile phones arent very condusive to ranting :/