Brawl+ Stage Legality Discussion: Brawl+ 7.0 Gold Discussion (Go Discuss Everything!)

[Perfect Chaos]

The bottom isn't why it's called Spear Pillar... It's from the bunch of (broken) pillars sitting around at the top. (Afterall, there wasn't really a basement area in the Pokémon games, anyway.)And the reason that fights always ends up there is because it's the safe haven that is the Cave of Immortality.

 

[Alphatron]

Keep the bottom part and break 2/3 of the top platform. Only if its possible to weaken Cresselia, then keep her.

But a stage with two ledges is still pretty annoying.

 

[ValTroX]

Green Green is already an amazing counterpick in my mind...
Well, it sucks because if you die first, the other player usually camps at the small platforms, and the falling blocks/BOMBS make it annoying.

PSM is also a good counterpick already..

I'm not saying otherwise, the thing is that if they can make the windmill not solid(like in melee) it will be even better.

 

[JayFizzy]

Bah, it's just not Spear Pillar without...well...the "Pillar" part.

I honestly am not sure how you think a basement is a pillar.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Sorry for repeating this soo many times already, but here it is again. My opinion's on stages.

On the discussion of stages in the not stage thread. =P

I would like to see:

- Sky World+ with ledges hitstun fixed. This was my most favorite CP at our tournaments until you guys made a decision against it, sorta.

- Castle Siege frozen at the first part. The second part is for stalling/camping. I don't see any good coming from the second part. The third part is just another FD, but it tilts a little. First only, please!

- Port Town Aero Dive+. Weaker cars, no cars, certain areas limited? I'd love this.

- Distant Planet+. Constant water, no bulborb, stage moved slightly to the right, with the right side boundaries shrunk a bit to match.

I think Big Blue+ seems really stupid. What does it have going for it? I see another ugly FD. Guh, I hate FD. >=[

Well here are some things to say:

- PTAD+
is unique because it bring back a Mute City-esque stage to Smash. However, unlike Mute City, PTAD+ has a bigger main platform, allowing an easier time recovering, and also the road underneath, which like Mute City, Brinstar, and Norfair, acts like a damaging barrier that just pushes you back up to the stage. This stage also shouldn't be a big deal for tether recovery characters. If it is at all, that's why it's a CP!. Rainbow Cruise doesn't help tether recoveries, yet it's allowed, so why not PTAD+? Think of this; even though Melee lacked tether recovery characters, plenty of people sucked at Mute City just as bad as a tether recovery would at Rainbow Cruise; Ex: Roy.

- Castle Siege+ (Frozen at first part)
The Cape, or someone else, said this originally, and this makes a lot of sense too. It was said that Castle Siege should be frozen on the first part due to the second part being big and open, promoting camping/stalling/walk-off chaingrabs, not that we have those anymore, etc. The third part is just another FD, flat, minus the tiny change towards the middle, with ledges that are bad like FD's with the tilting abilities of Lylat. Nothing we want out of those two. The first one, however, I would say, is unique in that first off it represents the Fire Emblem series more so than the other two parts. Now this has nothing to do with the gameplay, but it's very nostalgic to the FE games, minus the two negative not so much related parts that are the second and third forms. The platform set up is unique and simple. It's kinda small, but being a 1 on 1, it doesn't look too bad. The small area would definitely reduce any attempts at camping. The ledges are also slightly odd. The left ledge having the obvious lip, and the right ledge having the smaller lip. Those aren't the best ledges ever, but those ledges fit fine when you think of a CP stage. The third form of the stage can fit in with that argument as well, but do we really need more FDs? Having the first part frozen will keep us with the nice unique platforms, and the most nostalgic part of Castle Siege.

- Distant Planet+
I can't really say anything for. I just know that constant water might be one of the only ways to prevent it from being a walk-off, or just shrink the left side. >=[
But I think this stage could have some potential.

- Sky World+
Is an obvious. It WAS my CP at tourneys until recently when it was decided that it should be banned until fixed, which is fine. I loved the stage. Nice platform set-up. Clouds are great. The main platform allows some Luigi's Mansion tactics, and a lot of stages, to be used. Intentionally hitting the floor, for example. Fix the ledges, please!

-Big Blue+
As far as I can tell, PTAD+ would do all that Big Blue+ would do, but with a bigger main platform (?) and a more fair set-up for tether recoveries. Rather than being dragged to death immediately and dying, or repeated slamming against the bottom of the stage, IF they somehow bounced, the characters would be bounced back up on the main platform. And PTAD+ also lands at areas, some grounded, and some with ledges. PTAD+ <3

-Spear Pillar+
If Spear Pillar was fixed, I think that only the top area, pokemon frozen, of course, was there with shrunken bounderies on both sides, it'd be reminiscent of Fountain of Dreams. Battlefield set-up with moving platforms, like Melee.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

...You people are slow. I never said or implied that the basement was a pillar. I meant the whole stage itself. The whole thing is more like a flat topped pillar than it is a mountain. -.o

But whatever, either way, the Spear Pillar idea isn't going to work that well, even if you do go through with it. Have fun with that.

 

[smashbro29]

Do any of the people who can actually work on a change read this?

There's some sick ideas here.

 

[ValTroX]

...You people are slow. I never said or implied that the basement was a pillar. I meant the whole stage itself. The whole thing is more like a flat topped pillar than it is a mountain. -.o

But whatever, either way, the Spear Pillar idea isn't going to work that well, even if you do go through with it. Have fun with that.

We are not slow, we just want the cave gone, I mean, everyone is trying to make it a great stage, and you are concerned because it won't look like a mountain. I want a great stage to play in, not a stage that looks like a mountain.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

We are not slow, we just want the cave gone, I mean, everyone is trying to make it a great stage, and you are concerned because it won't look like a mountain. I want a great stage to play in, not a stage that looks like a mountain.

...I never said anything about wanting it to look like a mountain. But that's irrelevant, the stage design is perfectly fine as it is anyways. There's no reason to change it, aside from the random attacks and other stuff.

Honestly...You people are never fine with the way things already are since it's not exactly what you want. How about learning to adapt for a change? -.o

...Then again asking for that in this community is kind of...stupid of me. Even hypocrisy considering I play Brawl+ too, even though I only play it for the speed. o_o'

Exactly how would distorting Spear Pillar in this fashion benefit us anyways? I don't see any worthwhile causes in the idea at all, but if you can convince me, more power to you.

 

[ValTroX]

Well, a camping stage is useless, it's useful for casual friendlies(maybe). The idea of removing the lower platform is to make the stage a great neutral/cp. The problem is not that we cannot adapt, but to add another stage to the selection :/

 

[VietGeek]

no its pretty obv that spear pillar should stay as a circle camping stage so that it will be forever banned from all tournaments

i mean rly y would a project that is dedicated to delivering a "competitive smash" ever want to salvage banned stages?

its pretty obv we just "4 stock no items final destination fox only" anyway

i am sick and tired of this hypocritical community and its bullsh*tty ability to argue points and inability to adapt to the ever-changing world about them

 

[SymphonicSage12]

The only thing the current SP is good for its lovely cave-of-life syndrome. That's Temple's job. Therefore, SP is useless currently.....not even a CP or friendlies...but the thing is we can salvage it. If you don't like it....remove the code (or .pac), and have fun with the rest of your nitpicky brawl+.

 

[Shadic]

...I never said anything about wanting it to look like a mountain. But that's irrelevant, the stage design is perfectly fine as it is anyways. There's no reason to change it, aside from the random attacks and other stuff.

Because it's a crappy, worthless stage right now. And will always be if we leave that bottom segment in. Hello Cave of Teching, hello circle in the middle of the stage. Have fun trying to catch a Metaknight with Bowser.

Honestly...You people are never fine with the way things already are since it's not exactly what you want. How about learning to adapt for a change? -.o
...Then again asking for that in this community is kind of...stupid of me. Even hypocrisy considering I play Brawl+ too, even though I only play it for the speed. o_o'

Oh wah. Adapt to crap? When we have the ability to fix it? Hell no. It's crap, and crap is meant for VBrawl, not Brawl+.

Exactly how would distorting Spear Pillar in this fashion benefit us anyways? I don't see any worthwhile causes in the idea at all, but if you can convince me, more power to you.

As I said earlier in this post. Spear Pillar will not ever be legal if anything from the bottom is kept. It's both a cave of life and an circle in the middle of the level.

My final point:
A crappy level-

Capable of being a Neutral/CP -

 

[Deleted member]

Spear pillar has great ledges too. Is it possible yet to remove the cave of life?

As much as I and some others like the idea of distant planet being a playable stage, it wouldnt offer anything that other stages dont have. Except permanent water, item spawns, and a bad level hazard. Itd probably promote some form of camping with the water on one side.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Let's see, just another post full of nothing but worthless bu--

*sees the two pictures showing some actual meaning*

Ah, THIS is more like it. Some actual meaningful examples. Okay, this doesn't look like it'll try too hard to kill you like BBrawl's does. If this is finished and there's a video of how it works, and if it isn't just another crappy level as opposed to it's previous superior form, I just might like it. :3

 

[Shadic]

Let's see, just another post full of nothing but worthless bu--*sees the two pictures showing some actual meaning*

How dense are you? It was explained completely what ruined the level, the possibilities of fixing it.

And you wanted a cropped picture? Christ.

 

[VietGeek]

...wave that what everyone has been saying for the last good while. <__<

if you don't understand feel free to say so, saves everyone trouble and takes away +1 post counts (=<)

maybe i should speak in vietrunes again

so the mulberry tree resonated 5000 lies but only 7415 truths

the world was in despair

for turmoil was around the alley

great spear that lurked in the cloudless rains

struck mother the mantle

cave of life lost

the frog walked onward

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Viet, I'm not seeing anything TO understand. That's why I'm saying "convince me". Even now I still don't, but if this actually works out well, then I'll go along with it. If not, that's just one more thing in Brawl+ I won't be using. XD

But if BBrawl screwed it up, I'm not seeing how you guys will do any better. :3

 

[VietGeek]

guys he has a point

 

[MK26]

except we can do that now

collision data edit + vertex shift

 

[ValTroX]

Because it's a crappy, worthless stage right now. And will always be if we leave that bottom segment in. Hello Cave of Teching, hello circle in the middle of the stage. Have fun trying to catch a Metaknight with Bowser.


Oh wah. Adapt to crap? When we have the ability to fix it? Hell no. It's crap, and crap is meant for VBrawl, not Brawl+.


As I said earlier in this post. Spear Pillar will not ever be legal if anything from the bottom is kept. It's both a cave of life and an circle in the middle of the level.

My final point:
A crappy level-

Capable of being a Neutral/CP -

thanks for the pics, I guess Wave Kusanagi is more of a visual guy and my words aren't convincing or explanatory enough, good thing you understood me.

 

[Shadic]

thanks for the pics, I guess Wave Kusanagi is more of a visual guy and my words aren't convincing or explanatory enough, good thing you understood me.

Two minutes grabbing the picture was easy, and I had the same idea anyways.

guys he has a point

No he doesn't. It's possible already.

Viet, I'm not seeing anything TO understand. That's why I'm saying "convince me". Even now I still don't, but if this actually works out well, then I'll go along with it. If not, that's just one more thing in Brawl+ I won't be using. XD
But if BBrawl screwed it up, I'm not seeing how you guys will do any better. :3

Everybody else understands, you've drawn far too much attention and time to your incompetence. And we have more tools than they do. That's like saying "You can't give Falcon a reverse knee!" ten months ago. Because we couldn't.

 

[VietGeek]

srry forgot my butterfree (you can buy the pro version that can detect non-butterfree posts' stats for $9.99)

can't get the pic from the wbr but the new pork city idea is also definitely possible, perhaps even easier.

- drag the left death boundary toward the boat (yes viet doesn't know he carnival attractions), or toward the end of its swing or remove the boat model entirely

- freeze the stage (the boat will start from the right, so freezing both removes the Ultimate Chimera and prevents the boat from being candidate for boundary camping or remove both the boat and Chimera

- raise the lower boundary past the wooden bridge, possibly extend the right border a bit

- change all spawn points to around the vicinity of the new stage.

all this work for a sexy counterpick/banned stage! why? well the platforms might still be too ****. But then Brawl+ has its own No Fair. =V

 

[Alphatron]

Don't freeze the boat! Just remove the chimera. He should get back in the bathroom stall, waiting to pounce on unsuspecting victims.

Otherwise, I like that idea. It's better than what I had in mind anyway.

 

[VietGeek]

hot cheese is melting my lips it feels so good



the boat might be problematic due to border camping, if we extend the border out too much we risk running into the left side/it'll look weird anyway with im-proportionate borders

the boat is a cool feature but its placement is terrible

flint should power smash it out of the way obv

 

[Revven]

wat if we could remove the boat with BrawlBox? WHAT IF WE COULD?

 

[VietGeek]

ya that was one of my 'or' idea(s)

NPC+ could definitely be an ode to the midwest if done right

don't ask me what the hell that means

 

[Revven]

it means Midwest are so behind with their stage lists and are way too ***** to change them because of the characters people use in the Midwest. :x

 

[FrozenHobo]

NPC+ could work (anything to fix a terrible stage, right?).

i might just try coding something up this week to see what i can get boundary-wise. though i do wonder about the camera issue.. you can fix that in BBox when you remove the boat, right?

 

[MK26]

PTAD. No cars. Grabbable ledges.

I think we can add a counterpick to the list.

 

[FrozenHobo]

you got a link for that?

 

[MK26]

link added

 

[ValTroX]

PTAD. No cars. Grabbable ledges.

I think we can add a counterpick to the list.

You're the greatest MK26, can't wait to see if you're gonna work on that Spear Pillar.

 

[ValTroX]

i got a question though, if I get your version of PTAD, and the others I play do not have it(even if we do not play the stage) does the game desync?
EDIT: I just tried it, it's awesome!!! Definitely a new CP on the list.

 

[goodoldganon]

Is it possible to weaken the cars KB instead of outright remove them? If not can you post the stage with the regular cars. I like it as is for a fun 4 player match. There are plenty of good serious levels. I just want the grabbable edges.

 

[Slashy]

Walkoffs should not be banned, I feel it is just another element players should work with.

 

[Revven]

Players have worked with it in Melee enough to know that walkoffs are gay.

Edit: MK26, it's not a CP until that huge *** wall doesn't semi-spike you and trip you. Remove the wall, plz?

 

[Alphatron]

http://i47.tinypic.com/20rjtac.jpg

PTAD. No cars. Grabbable ledges.

I think we can add a counterpick to the list.

I approve of this, however you may have done it. The only thing left to do is to weaken the cars instead of flat out removing them. But no one knows how to do that yet.

 

[ValTroX]

Players have worked with it in Melee enough to know that walkoffs are gay.

Edit: MK26, it's not a CP until that huge *** wall doesn't semi-spike you and trip you. Remove the wall, plz?

now that i think about it... it did hit me lol, not much of a problem though.

 

[Slashy]

Walkoffs were banned primarily in Melee due to waveshining.