Brawl-: Released. See the new thread up top in the sticky section ^^^^

[Adetque]

Make meta's jab 20x faster.

 

[Fatmanonice]

1. Wat
2. That seems like it would easily break into the "zomfg unfair" range. We want to border that, not jump into it.
3. Again, 10%/second for the whole match is not very fair. Neither is 16/second....
4. this isn't a bad idea. :V
5. See 2. Unavoidable moves should be avoided.
6. I'll see you at x1.7
7. I dunno about all the time, but several should trip. Like sonic's and marios, the ones which aim at the legs. Ones like ganon's which aim for the head and KO should probably not.
8. Seems busted... Ionno
9. Same thing as 5.
10. This I agree with.

I was just being goofy because my hacking skills are about those of a ******** camel. I'll definately keep my eye on this project though.

 

[rasd123]

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

 

[Fatmanonice]

To be realistic:

Marth's sword is about doubled in length.
1. Mario's fireball is replaced by an attack similar to the fire flower.
2. Luigi's tornado reflects projectiles and the sweet spot of the fire punch (up B) is made a lot bigger.
3. Peach's jab always trips on the second strike.
4. Bowser's flying slam has much less knockback so regrabs out of it are easy to do up until high percentages.
5. DK's ground slap (down B) is given aerial hit boxes too.
6. Diddy can have four banannas on stage at a time instead of two.
7. Yoshi's egg roll has double the priority.
8. Wario's waft charges three times as fast.
9. Link's jab is given the same knockback as Ike's.
10. Zelda's din's fire has no ending lag.
11. Shiek's attacks have the same hit boxes and stun as they did in Melee.
12. Ganondorf's dair, flame choke, and wizard kick have invincibility frames.
13.Toon Link's arrows have the same knockback as Pit's arrows and bombs have the same knockback as Snake's grenades.
14. Samus's zair has the same stun effect as ZSS's dsmash.
15. ZSS's dsmash has double the hit box range and speed of her grab is made 3 times as fast.
16. Pit's arrows have the same effects on shields as Jigglypuff's pound and his fsmash can turn people around and reflect projectiles like Mario's cape.
17. The Ice Climbers can't become completely seperated.
18. ROB's lazer and Gyro are always fully charged.
19. Kirby's dtilt, ftilt, and final cutter always trip.
20. Metaknight's mach tornado can reflect projectiles and heavily damages shields.
21. The sweet spot of King Dedede's smash attacks are all doubled.
22. The number of pikmin that Olimar can pluck is doubled and they can only die by being thrown off the stage or by stage hazards like water.
23. Fox's dthrow is given the same effects as Falco's and the shine has a spike.
24. Falco's dthrow always has the same amount of knockback no matter how much damage your opponent has taken.
25. Wolf's recoveries are doubled and the range of Wolf's fsmash is doubled too.
26. Captain Falcon has no ending lag of any of his aerials and dtilt always trips.
27. Pikachu's quick attack always has no ending lag making QAC much, much easier.
28. All three pokemon no longer suffer from fatique and the pokemon each have different percentages. For example, if Charizard can have 50% damage, Ivysaur can have 200%, and Squirtle can have 0%. All pokemon heal completely upon losing a stock.
29. Lucario's aura is always at full power.
30. Give rest it's Melee properties and reduce its ending lag by 3/4.
31. Double Marth's sword's range.
32. Ike's quick draw has no ending lag when it lands or misses and can be used an infinite number of times in the air.
33. Ness's PK fire has the same trajectory as Lucas's but with the same effects except it has virtually no ending lag and recovery is doubled. Also, PKT2 has invincibility frames throughout the whole attack.
34. Lucas's PK fire is given the same effects as Ness's, dtilt always trips, and u/dsmash are given significantly less ending lag.
35. Mr. Game and Watch always has 9 with his judgement hammer and bair deals more damage to shields.
36. Snake's explosive's hitboxes are doubled.
37. Sonic is given more knockback for all his aerials and dair has no landing lag.

 

[IndigoFenix]

Don't like the Fatalities idea that much. It seems like it's more or less unnecessary. If you grab the opponent at 300% in this game, they are GOING TO DIE if you use the right throw. I don't know what Rage combos are. Most of this project will be done with PSA, I'm assuming (IT PRINTS CODES!), but some things like HS/HL/SS will need to be coded elsewhere. That said, I'm pretty sure there are already E-Z-ues codes for most of those.

Yeah, it would be unnecessary, but still fun to watch Kirby rapid-kicking an enemy until they explode MK style. It seems like it might not be so easy to get it to work, though - I tried making one but it killed them instantly no matter what their damage % was. A RAGE COMBO is my own term, it refers to a character who gets stronger as they pull off combos, this can be demonstrated in my Shadow Beast Ganon hack which can be found on the PSA submission thread. It isn't particularly good in itself but it seems like a lot of these characters will be able to combo really well and I think it would be fun to reward pulling off combos.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

To be realistic:

Marth's sword is about doubled in length.
1. Mario's fireball is replaced by an attack similar to the fire flower.
2. Luigi's tornado reflects projectiles and the sweet spot of the fire punch (up B) is made a lot bigger.
3. Peach's jab always trips on the second strike.
4. Bowser's flying slam has much less knockback so regrabs out of it are easy to do up until high percentages.
5. DK's ground slap (down B) is given aerial hit boxes too.
6. Diddy can have four banannas on stage at a time instead of two.
7. Yoshi's egg roll has double the priority.
8. Wario's waft charges three times as fast.
9. Link's jab is given the same knockback as Ike's.
10. Zelda's din's fire has no ending lag.
11. Shiek's attacks have the same hit boxes and stun as they did in Melee.
12. Ganondorf's dair, flame choke, and wizard kick have invincibility frames.
13.Toon Link's arrows have the same knockback as Pit's arrows and bombs have the same knockback as Snake's grenades.
14. Samus's zair has the same stun effect as ZSS's dsmash.
15. ZSS's dsmash has double the hit box range and speed of her grab is made 3 times as fast.
16. Pit's arrows have the same effects on shields as Jigglypuff's pound and his fsmash can turn people around and reflect projectiles like Mario's cape.
17. The Ice Climbers can't become completely seperated.
18. ROB's lazer and Gyro are always fully charged.
19. Kirby's dtilt, ftilt, and final cutter always trip.
20. Metaknight's mach tornado can reflect projectiles and heavily damages shields.
21. The sweet spot of King Dedede's smash attacks are all doubled.
22. The number of pikmin that Olimar can pluck is doubled and they can only die by being thrown off the stage or by stage hazards like water.
23. Fox's dthrow is given the same effects as Falco's and the shine has a spike.
24. Falco's dthrow always has the same amount of knockback no matter how much damage your opponent has taken.
25. Wolf's recoveries are doubled and the range of Wolf's fsmash is doubled too.
26. Captain Falcon has no ending lag of any of his aerials and dtilt always trips.
27. Pikachu's quick attack always has no ending lag making QAC much, much easier.
28. All three pokemon no longer suffer from fatique and the pokemon each have different percentages. For example, if Charizard can have 50% damage, Ivysaur can have 200%, and Squirtle can have 0%. All pokemon heal completely upon losing a stock.
29. Lucario's aura is always at full power.
30. Give rest it's Melee properties and reduce its ending lag by 3/4.
31. Double Marth's sword's range.
32. Ike's quick draw has no ending lag when it lands or misses and can be used an infinite number of times in the air.
33. Ness's PK fire has the same trajectory as Lucas's but with the same effects except it has virtually no ending lag and recovery is doubled. Also, PKT2 has invincibility frames throughout the whole attack.
34. Lucas's PK fire is given the same effects as Ness's, dtilt always trips, and u/dsmash are given significantly less ending lag.
35. Mr. Game and Watch always has 9 with his judgement hammer and bair deals more damage to shields.
36. Snake's explosive's hitboxes are doubled.
37. Sonic is given more knockback for all his aerials and dair has no landing lag.

Some of these are really good and should definitely be looked into. I'm going to work on putting together a full idea list first while trying to figure PSA out.

Yeah, it would be unnecessary, but still fun to watch Kirby rapid-kicking an enemy until they explode MK style. It seems like it might not be so easy to get it to work, though - I tried making one but it killed them instantly no matter what their damage % was. A RAGE COMBO is my own term, it refers to a character who gets stronger as they pull off combos, this can be demonstrated in my Shadow Beast Ganon hack which can be found on the PSA submission thread. It isn't particularly good in itself but it seems like a lot of these characters will be able to combo really well and I think it would be fun to reward pulling off combos.

I have never heard about Shadow Beast Ganon. Link to a video (I can't use PSA at the moment) or something? The idea is interesting, but I dunno. Maybe the faster, lightweight chars, or maybe just a few? I dunno. Also don't know how that would work.

 

[Jonas]

It think Bowser's Whirling Fortress should have its initial hitbox and armor extended to the full duration of the animation.

 

[Baro]

The mach tornado reflecting projectiles = YES

 

[820]

Falco's Fire Bird needs to be as high as his first jump.

 

[Rudementry]

Sounds... Easy... And pointless.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Sounds... Easy... And pointless.

About Falco or this whole idea?

Either way, no ****.

xD If this DOES go through, I swear I'm promoting it at tourneys. >:3

 

[Kirk]

I'm all for this.

I'm fairly well-versed with PSA coding, and I would love to help with the coding. I find that I'm not the best when it comes to coming up with ideas, but I am much better at translating others' ideas into the actual coding.

Hopefully I can be of assistance.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Sounds... Easy... And pointless.

It is neither!

You're missing the point that, while broken, it should be balanced. Not "Character X beats everyone because he's a thousand times better", "Everyone is about level on brokenness". And that is actually very hard. The point? ****ing lulzy as a hacked version, and potentially usable for tournaments.

I'm all for this.

I'm fairly well-versed with PSA coding, and I would love to help with the coding. I find that I'm not the best when it comes to coming up with ideas, but I am much better at translating others' ideas into the actual coding.

Hopefully I can be of assistance.

THANK YOU. We need more people like you.

I have a confession to make that I probably should have mentioned when I made this thread (late at night/tired johns). I currently do not own a Wii. I play brawl/brawl+ at friends' house. The good news is, I managed to recruit the friend who I spend the most time playing this with to the team, so he won't bug me and say "Hey man, let's stop testing Brawl- and play Brawl+". But that brings me to the next issue. I live in Germany. Currently, I'm looking for about 100 bucks to get a decent external HD (have NTSC ROM), but in general... Difficult for testing with PSA. I also don't run windows natively, making it even harder for me to learn how to use PSA because it won't run on my system without boot camp or parallels.

TL;DR: I have a mac, live in a region with no PSA codes, and have no wii. PIECE OF CAKE.

Despite this, I intend to continue this until it comes to a spluttering halt in the bloody ground (or, you know, succeeds. :V). I'm going to spend about an hour reading through this thread and gathering loads of things to put in. Also, expect several things ripped off of Brawl+/BBrawl when thinking about the worse characters (tee hee).

 

[Kirk]

THANK YOU. We need more people like you.

Not a problem. I enjoy projects like these.

If you can draft up a moveset changelist for a particular character, that would be a good way to get the ball rolling.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Not a problem. I enjoy projects like these.

If you can draft up a moveset changelist for a particular character, that would be a good way to get the ball rolling.

I'm working on it as we speak.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

kirk (3:00:55 PM): oh god
kirk (3:01:01 PM): if you shield the warlock punch
kirk (3:01:06 PM): if someone shields it
kirk (3:01:08 PM): you die
kirk (3:01:10 PM): from the recoil
cadet (3:01:12 PM): ?
kirk (3:01:14 PM): lmao
cadet (3:01:15 PM): oh wow lol wtf
kirk (3:01:24 PM): and they are safe...with a broken shield
cadet (3:01:31 PM): wait run that one by me again... if your opponent BLOCKS the warlock punch, Ganon dies
cadet (3:01:32 PM): oh wow
cadet (3:01:35 PM): xD
kirk (3:01:36 PM): yep
cadet (3:01:37 PM): ****ing epic
cadet (3:01:57 PM): know how to fix that? Is there a code to make a move unblockable?
kirk (3:02:04 PM): there is
kirk (3:02:10 PM): but lol its so funny
cadet (3:02:25 PM): I'm honestly considering if we should make it unblockable or just leave it like that
kirk (3:02:52 PM): leave it for now...haha
cadet (3:02:56 PM): lol yeah...
kirk (3:04:07 PM): holy ****
cadet (3:04:12 PM): ?
kirk (3:04:13 PM): if they powershield it
kirk (3:04:15 PM): ganon still dies
kirk (3:04:19 PM): but they are stuck in shield stun
kirk (3:04:22 PM): for a good 3 seconds
cadet (3:04:31 PM): this is so ****ing funny
cadet (3:04:34 PM): what is this I don't even
kirk (3:04:40 PM): no kidding xD
kirk (3:05:13 PM): lol
kirk (3:05:17 PM): ganon has enough time
kirk (3:05:18 PM): to die
kirk (3:05:20 PM): come back
cadet (3:05:24 PM): and then hit them again?
kirk (3:05:24 PM): walk up to them and attack
kirk (3:05:27 PM): before shield drops
kirk (3:05:28 PM): yeah


...Epic alert. Also, is anyone willing to help test as we make it? If you are, we're on AIM (I have pretty much everything, just click to the side of my post and you'll see it) and working on the first draft of broken .pac files.

 

[AMKalmar]

Can you react fast enough to downB (then jump, upB) before you die or does he just fire out of bounds? If they don't powersheild you could probably get to them before they leave dizzy state.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Can you react fast enough to downB (then jump, upB) before you die or does he just fire out of bounds? If they don't powersheild you could probably get to them before they leave dizzy state.

I have no idea. Kirk sez he's UL'ing the vid. But **** man, that is epic!

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcfH5Fzp5PM

 

[FrozenHobo]

ok... i'm in... as long as we can balance the broken-ness.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

That's a major goal here, remember? No character should really be far above anyone else. Everyone equally broken (this is part of why I am not so sure if SHTL for falco is really a good idea; it seems like it would be hard to let some chars get around it). I'll add you on AIM.

 

[loki15]

What about giving Olimar's pikmin latch hitstun or shield damage?
Link's up-B gets the same vertical boost as toon links?
Maybe that's too conservative...

 

[Lux Magnus]

1. Ness has a bigger PK Fire, lasts longer, PK Pulse/Flash always max sized and can still explode if in the stage
3. Lucario already at max, no charge time Aura sphere, Down B is instantaneous and counter time hitbox is throughout the entire animation, force palm trips 50% of the time, infinite Up b
4. Pikachu's thunder is faster and hits on his sides also for a total of 3 thunders at once, faster neutral B with less lag, unlimited up B unless you die or hit something
5. Marth gets Sephiroth sized sword, nuff sed
6. Luigi's uber jump punch is always hitboxed, longer less lag'd fireballs, down b sucks in like in Melee, lasts longer with uber knockback at the end
7. For everyone, always maxed charged smash attacks with less lag

 

[GeneralWoodman]

jigglypuff should get 100 jumps and sing has the range of fd and u can't wake up

 

[FrozenHobo]

was talking with my luigi main friend. here are his ideas:
Luigi

-Fireball: finger does 10% w/ fire/tripping/IASA frames
-High traction (no slide)
-Side B always missfires/ head never gets stuck
-bair increased knockback
-dash attack trip
-taunt spike invincibility
-upward smash hitbox closer to middle
-fair strong semi spike
-air spike hitbox size increase
-up b landing lag decrease w/ invincibility frames and go into regular fall state (no more up bs)
-down b outer hitbox causes tripping
-crawl has SA frames
-dtilt always trips

 

[IC3R]

jigglypuff should get 100 jumps and rest has the range of fd and u can't do squat

fix'd

10jigglies

 

[B3Brawler]

Marth
-------------------------------
Tipper hitboxes applied to entire sword for all aerials. (Keennnnnnn Comboooo)
adjusted SH height to allow the double Fair or Fair to Uair
down tilt: 90 degree knockback
down B: succesful counter has a set knock back straight up to set up combos as well as sped up cool down. (c-c-c-c-c-ounter combo)
side B: vBrawl levels of ****
neutral B: Replaced with projectile????
UpB: increased DI and fastfall at the end, you can dodge out of it (and into a helpless animation)

 

[Fatmanonice]

Here's a simple idea for Marth: every attack tippers.

 

[phantomphungus]

Make one of every character's taunts have them explode shortly afterwards. You can use that code that just kills them and respawns them without teleporting to the blast zone they recently discovered. it gets funnier the more I think about it. "What's the matter, scare-" BOOOOOOM!!!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

was talking with my luigi main friend. here are his ideas:
Luigi

-Fireball: finger does 10% w/ fire/tripping/IASA frames
-High traction (no slide)
-Side B always missfires/ head never gets stuck
-bair increased knockback
-dash attack trip
-taunt spike invincibility
-upward smash hitbox closer to middle
-fair strong semi spike
-air spike hitbox size increase
-up b landing lag decrease w/ invincibility frames and go into regular fall state (no more up bs)
-down b outer hitbox causes tripping
-crawl has SA frames
-dtilt always trips

Always tripping... gotta check if that will lead to any kind of lock. But yeah, not a bad idea. The crawl having SA seems like a little powerful; HA on the other hand to like 10 or something is cool. Tornado trips? That is a good idea. I'll probably end up implementing most of these ideas, because most of them are pretty good. Make the taunt spike HA 20 or something instead of invincibility because one plan is cancelable taunts and if it had invincibility (or even SA) then you could just spam it constantly to never die. Or? Dunno... Dash attack trip sounds cool. Fireball sounds cool. I disagree about the traction though-I think Luigi should have even less traction, and a higher run speed and air speed. That way, he becomes a REAL green missile. We can try it though.

1. Ness has a bigger PK Fire, lasts longer, PK Pulse/Flash always max sized and can still explode if in the stage
3. Lucario already at max, no charge time Aura sphere, Down B is instantaneous and counter time hitbox is throughout the entire animation, force palm trips 50% of the time, infinite Up b
4. Pikachu's thunder is faster and hits on his sides also for a total of 3 thunders at once, faster neutral B with less lag, unlimited up B unless you die or hit something
5. Marth gets Sephiroth sized sword, nuff sed
6. Luigi's uber jump punch is always hitboxed, longer less lag'd fireballs, down b sucks in like in Melee, lasts longer with uber knockback at the end
7. For everyone, always maxed charged smash attacks with less lag

1. That sounds like a cool idea.
3. I was thinking more ridiculous. Lucario gets an automatic 300% handicap... and is heavier than super metal bowser. :V
4. Hmm... not bad. I'm not 100% sure what to do with thunder, but this isn't a bad idea.
5. This has been in planning for a while (2x attack size)
6. Always sweetspots... Yeah, that's pretty crazy. Let's do that. But nerf the knockback on everything except the first hitbox (like, it's incredible if you hit with the ground hitbox, which is bigger, but hit with it after that and it still has sweet knockback.
7. Not sure about this one. I'm already buffing most smash attacks in power and speed (and the slower ones in range).

What about giving Olimar's pikmin latch hitstun or shield damage?
Link's up-B gets the same vertical boost as toon links?
Maybe that's too conservative...

Latch hitstun is pretty brutal if you really think about it. Get two pikmin on and your opponent will be hard pressed to get them off at all, let alone get out of stun. Shield damage on the other hand shounds like a solid idea. The idea for Link's upB was to double the animation length, triple the height right now.


The way I'm working on this is with a spreadsheet-everyone with everything. I can upload it. I'm working from the front of the alphabet to the back (finished bowser, working on CF right now); this is pretty much just brainstorming and putting in what seems to work best. We will make a version 0.1 alpha which is pretty much just the results of this brainstorming for everyone (!). Then we test with that and post updates as we figure out what is too broken.

Also, what if we gave MK's jab no stun, very low damage, and range about the length of FD?

 

[Kei_Takaro]

FALCON PUNCH IS A PROJECTILE!!!

/allcaps

 

[smashkng]

Ganon's evil punch being a 20 frame move instead of 70, having invincibility in hit frames, breaking shields and having 1 frame cooldown. Fair is still the same speed, but killing at 50%. Nair killing at 100%, bair increased range and dair is the same, but stronger base knockback. His up tilt being 15 frame instead, his dtilt being 5 frame with 10 frames cooldown, his fsmash being 10 frame with 5 cooldown, up smash being a 3 frame move with broken horizontal range and 1 frame cooldown, down smash killing at 100% in 1st kick and 80% in 2nd kick with 12 frame start-up and 7 frame cooldown. 1 frame jab with 1 frame cooldown that can lock with its low set knockback to up smash, having grab range equal to DDD in VBrawl, side b moving in frame 3, grounded wizard kick moving in frame 10 and killing Snake with godly DI at 120%, up b moving in frame 1 with uppercut ******
and with shocks that kill at 100% and getting 3 air jumps. Also a spot dodge with 1 frame cooldown. And being as heavy as Snake.

Now he is the strongest character by far. No one is as strong as him, not even close. This balances his poor mobility, so it isn't unfair. You just need to be careful because you are screwed if he hits with his godly power. Just camp him, be careful and never approach him, or you'll fear his power that you never want to get hit by.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

FALCON PUNCH IS A PROJECTILE!!!

/allcaps

Actually, I was intending to see if it's possible to make the Firebird hitbox about 3 times as big. So almost a projectile; just ****ing huge.

Ganon's evil punch being a 20 frame move instead of 70, having invincibility in hit frames, breaking shields and having 1 frame cooldown. Fair is still the same speed, but killing at 50%. Nair killing at 100%, bair increased range and dair is the same, but stronger base knockback. His up tilt being 15 frame instead, his dtilt being 5 frame with 10 frames cooldown, his fsmash being 10 frame with 5 cooldown, up smash being a 3 frame move with broken horizontal range and 1 frame cooldown, down smash killing at 100% in 1st kick and 80% in 2nd kick with 12 frame start-up and 7 frame cooldown. 1 frame jab with 1 frame cooldown that can lock with its low set knockback to up smash, having grab range equal to DDD in VBrawl, side b moving in frame 3, grounded wizard kick moving in frame 10 and killing Snake with godly DI at 120%, up b moving in frame 1 with uppercut ******
and with shocks that kill at 100% and getting 3 air jumps. Also a spot dodge with 1 frame cooldown. And being as heavy as Snake.

Now he is the strongest character by far. No one is as strong as him, not even close. This balances his poor mobility, so it isn't unfair. You just need to be careful because you are screwed if he hits with his godly power. Just camp him, be careful and never approach him, or you'll fear his power that you never want to get hit by.

We got ganon mroe or less under control ATM as far as ideas go. Most of the stuff mentioned is already changed in a very different way (although the grab is pretty accurate, and we are making him just as heavy as snake). Thanks for the ideas though.

When I get spongejordan back on the line I'm gonna try to get the sourceforge page up and running (he said something about an SVN...) and see if we can put a little organization into things.

 

[loki15]

For Olimar and Ivysaur. it wouldn't be a bad idea to drastically increase their recoveries. Like, neither fall into helpless after upB and/or have some special move with really good horizontal movement.

Are you extending the spike frames on Ganon's wizkick?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Ganon's Wizkick (aerial) spikes during the entire duration. If any part of it hits an opponent who's on the ground, they get grounded.

Olimar and Ivysaur's recoveries are getting buffed, no worries.

 

[Baro]

Luigi's get up attacks are shoryukens that always sweetspot

 

[IC3R]

Capt. Falcon:

Knee hitbox like
,..................................
|
|
|
|
|
|
l................................

this big. j/k



Falcon Punch's "flaming falcon" visual effect fires out like a projectile.

EDIT:: Oh, Falcon Punch is a OHKO on the PAWNCH hitbox, dealing 999%, and the flaming projectile does like 50% damage, weakening slightly as it flies off.

Final Destination

__50% v____________________________v 5%
__CF_____________________________w/e__
\_________________________________/​

Ideas from a similar, but dead thread.

 

[Leo Kitsune]

I support the fire falcon in the Falcon Punch being larger and firing off like a projectile.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I got this right now... Tell me what you think:

FP animation (and resulting hitbox) is about 2.5 times its normal size. After the bird disappears, the air where it was should burn slightly for about 120 frames dealing about 2% every 6 frames to anyone caught in it.

If that isn't good enough, we can add a projectile (like what blood falcon has, maybe).

As far as captain falcon's knee, we're proving that Snake=Falcon. Guess what that means.

 

[mofo_]

Ideas from a similar, but dead thread.

some of the ideas in that thread were cool, but i forgot the thread

 

[BEES]

3 suggestions:

-Fastfall sooner out of a jump. Give it some consideration.

-Differentiating forward/back smashes and tilts. One possibility would be to take the attacks of the assist trophies from that character's series. Bowser, for instance, could drop Lakitu's eggs as his back-smash. Essentially differentiate and diversify the characters more by giving each of them 2 more moves.

-Eliminate shieldgrabbing. If you want a more offense-based game, I would suggest toning down the most broken defensive move. Quite frankly I think this should be done in Brawl+. Hitting A while shielding would initiate a jab instead of a grab, giving your opponent counter-options. The other alternatives of jumping and rolling out of a shield are still present, it just turns shielding into a more classic-fighter styled move.