Brawl+ Official Codeset Gold Discussion

[OceanBlue]

Your argument has already come up, as far as I can remember, with the general consensus by the Brawl+ team [and by some others involved in the tourney scene as well] that what most people want is for Brawl+ to stop changing so frequently so they can actually learn a character that won't change in a month and to give the metagame a chance to develop.

"Less official updates" have already been tried [I believe at 4.2, or 5.0. I don't remember anymore], and it turns out that people just end up using the betas [the 'less official updates'], if I remember correctly, and don't stay with the supposed tournament option. As for "splitting the community", if there's a release of Brawl+ with, let's say, wavedashing and there's a release without, people won't know what to expect in tournaments. As for those seeking fun without wanting to worrying about tournaments, I think they were suggested to mod Brawl+ themselves.

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

Why is everyone so concerned with the metagame!? We should make brawl+ as good and exciting as we can, then worry about the metagame. Don't you guys want the most diverse and rich metagame possible? To me, this sounds like a case of "were too lazy to care anymore". If no devs currently want to continue developing this game (which btw has NO LIMIT ON TIME) then why are you on the dev team? Not trying to come accross as a **** but it needs to be said. Brawl+ isn't finished...why kill what used to be a fun and creative project for the sake of an incomplete metagame? Don't give me that crap about change fatigue either because why would anyone get pissy about changes that greatly improve characters and gameplay.

 

[Revven]

Rite, the people who ***** and whine about Brawl+ changing too frequently are the people who would play it in a tourney, the exact same people who go to tourneys weekly as it is. If the dev team loses that audience, then there's not really going to be any tourneys for the game, thus the balancing aspect becomes kind of pointless if there's no tourneys for the game.

Completely ignoring an audience isn't something a dev team should do. That'd be acting exactly like Sakurai who ignored the entire competitive community and only made Brawl cater to those who were casual and don't care about winning or losing. Do you want this project to be looked upon as a failure because the team didn't listen to those who actually go to tourneys? I wouldn't think so.

 

[zhengman777]

What most people want is for Brawl+ to stop changing so frequently so they can actually learn a character that won't change in a month and to give the metagame a chance to develop.

But updates WILL happen eventually and the metagame will be screwed over, if updates will really do it that badly. If the more competitive players want to develop a strong metagame, shouldn't they just stick with vBrawl?

That never changes. Just remove the tripping and there you go. It's not like they care about how much fun they have...

I don't know...

"Less official updates" have already been tried [I believe at 4.2, or 5.0. I don't remember anymore], and it turns out that people just end up using the betas [the 'less official updates'], if I remember correctly, and don't stay with the supposed tournament option.

...wait, and this is a BAD thing? I mean, it's a bad thing that people prefer the betas? Why wouldn't you guys revel in the glory that you have created improvements upon Brawl+, rather than lament about the more widely used, but inferior tournament option?

Oh wait...right...we can't lose the competitive community.

The competitive community seems more preoccupied with competing for the sake of competing. It's stupidly obvious, but it seems silly to me when what you're doing is hindering development and progress.

As for "splitting the community", if there's a release of Brawl+ with, let's say, wavedashing and there's a release without, people won't know what to expect in tournaments.

That's why we have people who host these things. Tournaments should at least announce the version of Brawl+ that will be used.

As for those seeking fun without wanting to worrying about tournaments, I think they were suggested to mod Brawl+ themselves.

Ah, yes, about that.

I'm actually interested in learning how to mod the game. I know that I can do some Google-fu to find some guides, but is there a particular, awesome guide that you or anyone would recommend? That would be great.

And thanks for your response, OceanBlue.

If the dev team loses that audience, then there's not really going to be any tourneys for the game, thus the balancing aspect becomes kind of pointless if there's no tourneys for the game.

I don't understand why the "competitive audience" is willing to play on a single, unchanging (and arguably flawed) release. Again, this is probably a case of focusing more on the enjoyment of competition rather than enjoyment of the game itself.

Completely ignoring an audience isn't something a dev team should do. Do you want this project to be looked upon as a failure because the team didn't listen to those who actually go to tourneys? I wouldn't think so.

Huh. I guess I should've realized this before. Brawl+ accommodates strictly the competitive audience. When you said that Brawl+ developers create for the community, I assumed that it meant anyone who played the game. Instead, "the community" is defined as "the competitive community", and all other players (read: casual players) should just sit back and take the changes as they come - if not, they can either **** off or work on a mod by themselves.

So yeah, I don't want to appear spiteful, but I honestly would like to take up OceanBlue's suggestion and try my hand at modding the code for Brawl+, if only for it to be played locally.

 

[Alphatron]

The competitive brawl+ community doesn't post here unfortunately. But I suspect that complaints from them will come soon enough if they haven't already.

 

[OceanBlue]

I'm no tournament player, nor am I involved in the Brawl community beyond music, but...

But updates WILL happen eventually and the metagame will be screwed over, if updates will really do it that badly. If the more competitive players want to develop a strong metagame, shouldn't they just stick with vBrawl?

That never changes. Just remove the tripping and there you go. It's not like they care about how much fun they have...

I don't know...

I don't think that's necessarily true. This isn't an argument of extremes; the competitive community consists of players too, and they enjoy a fun/deep game like everyone else. That's why they developed Brawl+.

Plus, updates before were more-or-less built upon quick playthroughs of the characters. They were tried, and if something felt like it wouldn't be useful or was, in some sort of way, slightly weak, people argued for it to be buffed. What the wait does is allow updates to be built around the metagame, not obstruct it.

...wait, and this is a BAD thing? I mean, it's a bad thing that people prefer the betas? Why wouldn't you guys revel in the glory that you have created improvements upon Brawl+, rather than lament about the more widely used, but inferior tournament option?

Oh wait...right...we can't lose the competitive community.

The competitive community seems more preoccupied with competing for the sake of competing. It's stupidly obvious, but it seems silly to me when what you're doing is hindering development and progress.

It's not a bad thing. It just means that you can't hope for "less official updates" so that the metagame will develop and we will have updates at the same time. Plus, you can't create updates around a metagame when the metagame is changing, and the metagame is useless if the game updates ignore it.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of 'development' and 'progress' do you want? Those ideas could be what differ between you and the Brawl+ team.

That's why we have people who host these things. Tournaments should at least announce the version of Brawl+ that will be used.

People don't immediately prepare for tournaments when they're announced.

It's like practicing with a certain character for a very long time to find out that he's banned in the tournaments in your area.

Ah, yes, about that.

I'm actually interested in learning how to mod the game. I know that I can do some Google-fu to find some guides, but is there a particular, awesome guide that you or anyone would recommend? That would be great.

And thanks for your response, OceanBlue.

Well, I think they release the Brawl+ codeset in a .txt file. You can make revisions to that and convert it to a GCT file using Codemanager. Also, character specific changes can be made using BrawlBox. You'll probably have to find most of that stuff in the tutorial section and by asking specific questions in that section though. As I said, I'm not really involved in the community, so I can't help you with this.

 

[zhengman777]

What the wait does is allow updates to be built around the metagame, not obstruct it.

But if we're getting complaints about the game itself, such as stage boundaries among others, shouldn't we at least attempt to build a metagame on a more appealing release? This should be done ASAP. If not to risk changing things such as the physics and upsetting more people, at least to CONSIDER changing the blast lines and such, rather than answer with a prompt "No."

Plus, you can't create updates around a metagame when the metagame is changing, and the metagame is useless if the game updates ignore it.

This metagame stuff sounds like SRS BZNIS. But yeah, I get that players want to develop a solid strategy and keep it for a long time, and I've come to the conclusion that I can't do anything to change that, so I'm pretty much done here.

Hopefully sometime in the future a modding team will come around - being more open to changing things at the expense of a consistent metagame.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of 'development' and 'progress' do you want? Those ideas could be what differ between you and the Brawl+ team.

Well, I'm just one player, so don't think that I expect you guys to do anything, but I would like to see progress going towards more Melee-like gameplay - changes to the oft-repeated word "physics".

What does these mean exactly in terms of code changes? Admittedly, I don't know. But what I DO know is that "Hey, Brawl+ feels great compared to vBrawl. Can't put my finger on the changes, but I'm enjoying this."

And all is well. But what I'm worried about is that Brawl+ could be better, but nothing is happening to make it better (at least not for 6 months) because the competitive community is valued highly.

But I'm fine with it now. Nothing I can really do about it besides wait.

People don't immediately prepare for tournaments when they're announced.

It's like practicing with a certain character for a very long time to find out that he's banned in the tournaments in your area.

Oh, sorry. I'm not familiar with the tourney scene, and I figured that enough tournaments could be held to cater to different players. Eh.

Anyways, thanks again.

 

[Kati]

Oh, sorry. I'm not familiar with the tourney scene, and I figured that enough tournaments could be held to cater to different players. Eh.

Anyways, thanks again.

ahh, but that unfortunately is not the situation right now. Brawl+ still needs to pierce the larger community of smash players and be accepted as the next step. Melee players need to be convinced that there is sufficient depth, and vBrawl players need... hmm...

I think there is a big fear of modding among vBrawl and even melee players... even though brawl+ is only a "soft mod". Ridding people of this mentality is too difficult to do if we as the hacking community can't even organize ourselves into one group (or code-set). If one is so scared to buy an sd card and learn how to rename a file, they would be even less willing to do so if the community providing the codes is divided.

Of course, I'm a west coast player. I have to take a ferry just to get to a tournament. From what I see at my club though, people playing melee and vbrawl need to see a stable game before they can move on.

Thus we have a six month development period for the metagame.

 

[zhengman777]

From what I see at my club though, people playing melee and vbrawl need to see a stable game before they can move on.

Thus we have a six month development period for the metagame.

I'd hate to drag this on, but I guess my point didn't really get through.

What if it's obvious that the stable game doesn't appeal to people playing Melee and vBrawl?

 

[Slashy]

Live Stream

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/crorare/v3

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

Rite, the people who ***** and whine about Brawl+ changing too frequently are the people who would play it in a tourney, the exact same people who go to tourneys weekly as it is. If the dev team loses that audience, then there's not really going to be any tourneys for the game, thus the balancing aspect becomes kind of pointless if there's no tourneys for the game.

Completely ignoring an audience isn't something a dev team should do. That'd be acting exactly like Sakurai who ignored the entire competitive community and only made Brawl cater to those who were casual and don't care about winning or losing. Do you want this project to be looked upon as a failure because the team didn't listen to those who actually go to tourneys? I wouldn't think so.

So someone who can't and or doesn't want to be involved in the competitive tourney scene offers absolutily no valuable opinions and information and thus should be completely ignored by the dev team? Wow but I thought completely ignoring an audience was the one thing the dev team shouldn't do right? Last I knew that's what the big meany Sakurai did. Way to be a hypocrite. Read what zhengman777 is saying, because hes right.

Your way of thinking, along with the current attitude among the dev team, will ultimately cause this project which has SO MUCH POTENTIAL to die. Your only satisfied players will be a handful of precious tourney players who only play competetively simply to play competitively.

Clearly I'm wrong though because I can't go to tourneys. Your right, a project which doesn't deliver and completely blocks out the community it was made for won't be looked upon as a failure.

Oh just so I know, who would be the ones looking upon this project as a failure anyway? The community? Well if this project continues on the same path it's on then yes, this project will be looked upon as a failure. Brawl+ had a great rep until all this OMG METAGAME **** started. Look, I don't want this project to be looked upon as a failure either, which is why im expressing my concerns. But it's kind of hard to save a project where the people who run it are causing the problem...

 

[FrozenHobo]

you are aware that this was a hack specifically designed to cater to players looking for a more competitive experience out of brawl, right?

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

you are aware that this was a hack specifically designed to cater to players looking for a more competitive experience out of brawl, right?

To an extent yes...but it's also designed to be a more enjoyable, fast paced, and more balanced alternative to vbrawl which the whole community could enjoy. If it wasn't, then this hack is as of now a complete failure considering on the large scale only a handful of tourney players are actively involved. The community has played a huge role in this project, and it's clearly obvious that brawl+ is not just meant to cater to hardcore tourney players, it's meant for anyone looking for that more enjoyable, fast paced, and balanced alternative to vbrawl.

I probably play this game more then most people on here, I just have way to much going on to be a tourney player. This project is geared just as much towards me as the people who can actually go to tourneys, there is almost no difference between me and them.

Let me put it like this, are the fans of a football team who are fortunate and lucky enough to go to their favorite teams games anymore important then the fans who support and represent the same team in places other then the stadium? No they are not. One group of fans is just as important to a teams popularity, representation, and growth as another group of fans is. Fans who can't go to the games can be even more "hardcore" then fans who go to the games.

 

[FrozenHobo]

who are you? this is the first time i've seen you post. am i supposed to know who you are? your last paragraph insinuates that we should know/care who you are.

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

I'm clearly immature. Obviously having an intelligent response to counter a very good point are beyond my abilities. My goal is to represent the Brawl+ team in an extremely negative way.

I fixed that for you.

Are these the kind of people who seriously work on Brawl+ these days? Well clearly it's pointless to try to say anything in this thread.

 

[FrozenHobo]

k. bye then.

 

[zhengman777]

you are aware that this was a hack specifically designed to cater to players looking for a more competitive experience out of brawl, right?

Yes. However, I didn't know that "competitive" meant "staying with an arduously-developed metagame". Guess that shows how much I know about tourneys...

Therefore, Brawl+ was not made for people like me.

Me? Ideally, I'd like to create a better casual experience. When the game improves enough, the competitive players could come in with their "metagame" business. Ideally.

But since the target audience for Brawl+ doesn't want to wait that long to develop a metagame, Brawl+ slapped "Gold" on its latest release. I'm just as bad: I don't want to wait that long before we try something else. But that's my fault, since I'm going against Brawl+'s mission.

Anyway, I like what you've done before, so I guess I'll busy myself with other games for six months, until your next release.

...Ah, ninja'd by people...

who are you? this is the first time i've seen you post. am i supposed to know who you are? your last paragraph insinuates that we should know/care who you are.

...I could've sworn that you responded in a similar degrading way to someone else a while ago, simply because he had a low post count and came in with an opinion.

To an extent yes...but it's also designed to be a more enjoyable, fast paced, and more balanced alternative to vbrawl which the whole community could enjoy.

They changed their goal. Wait. No, they didn't. It's the same goal, but it's not what you think it means. You have no longer become important.

Let me put it like this, are the fans of a football team who are fortunate and lucky enough to go to their favorite teams games anymore important then the fans who support and represent the same team in places other then the stadium? No they are not. One group of fans is just as important to a teams popularity, representation, and growth as another group of fans is. Fans who can't go to the games can be even more "hardcore" then fans who go to the games.

I'm not arguing against your main point here, but that analogy's a bit weird.

TV Fans : Casual players :: Stadium fans : Competitive players

Stadium fans don't need to develop a metagame.

Are these the kind of people who seriously work on Brawl+ these days?

I thought that this was the original team.

It's not?

Well, ****. :/ Oh well, let's just see what they do.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Yes. However, I didn't know that "competitive" meant "staying with an arduously-developed metagame". Guess that shows how much I know about tourneys...

Therefore, Brawl+ was not made for people like me.

Me? Ideally, I'd like to create a better casual experience. When the game improves enough, the competitive players could come in with their "metagame" business. Ideally.

But since the target audience for Brawl+ doesn't want to wait that long to develop a metagame, Brawl+ slapped "Gold" on its latest release. I'm just as bad: I don't want to wait that long before we try something else. But that's my fault, since I'm going against Brawl+'s mission.

Anyway, I like what you've done before, so I guess I'll busy myself with other games for six months, until your next release.

the "Gold" title was put on a bit to soon. however, the 6 month waiting period is to allow for people to get used to their characters and for a definitive list of positive/negative changes to come out.

the primary focus of B+ has always been for the competitive players. casual players enjoying the game has always been encouraged, but not the primary target audience.

...I could've sworn that you responded in a similar degrading way to someone else a while ago, simply because he had a low post count and came in with an opinion.

i responded in a similar way to a person who, in a similar way to this other guy, expected everybody to know who they were despite never posting/talking to anyone outside of their local area. post count has nothing to do with it.

I thought that this was the original team.

It's not?

Well, ****. :/ Oh well, let's just see what they do.

the "team" has been changing pretty much every few releases since the beginning.

 

[zhengman777]

however, the 6 month waiting period is to allow for people to get used to their characters

Yeah, I understand now. Like I said, you guys aren't making Brawl+ for people like me. I'll just kinda chill out and see what you guys do.

and for a definitive list of positive/negative changes to come out.

I've come to understand this, too. But just one question: Isn't nearly everyone in agreement that the blast lines detract from the game? Why isn't that being changed?

i responded in a similar way to a person who, in a similar way to this other guy, expected everybody to know who they were despite never posting/talking to anyone outside of their local area. post count has nothing to do with it.

Even though he hasn't posted before in this thread, RiteToRmnSilent said that he has played Brawl+ extensively, which should be reason enough to read his opinions first, THEN yell at him.

Thanks for conversing with me though, even though I haven't really posted before either, haha.

By the way, FrozenHobo, your signature appears like THIS on my screen. I'm not sure if my resolution has anything to do with it.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I've come to understand this, too. But just one question: Isn't nearly everyone in agreement that the blast lines detract from the game? Why isn't that being changed?

its being looked at in the wbr right now. alternative fixes are being reviewed.

Even though he hasn't posted before in this thread, RiteToRmnSilent said that he has played Brawl+ extensively, which should be reason enough to read his opinions first, THEN yell at him.

i play ssf4 extensively. the game is completely unbalanced.

now, how much faith would you put into that statement? i've given you no previous information on my ssf4 career, i've made a generalizing statement, and you have only my word to go on that the statement is factual, despite the fact that you've never seen me before or heard me talk about the game.

i would hope you would take my opinions on ssf4 with a grain of salt until i can actually validate any of it with something other than "i've been playing this game for a long time".

By the way, FrozenHobo, your signature appears like THIS on my screen. I'm not sure if my resolution has anything to do with it.

ffffffff. looks like i gotta shrink them some more...

 

[zhengman777]

its being looked at in the wbr right now. alternative fixes are being reviewed.

What I like to hear.

i play ssf4 extensively. the game is completely unbalanced.

now, how much faith would you put into that statement? i've given you no previous information on my ssf4 career, i've made a generalizing statement, and you have only my word to go on that the statement is factual, despite the fact that you've never seen me before or heard me talk about the game.

i would hope you would take my opinions on ssf4 with a grain of salt until i can actually validate any of it with something other than "i've been playing this game for a long time".

I would take your words with a grain of salt.

However, saying:

who are you? this is the first time i've seen you post. am i supposed to know who you are? your last paragraph insinuates that we should know/care who you are.

sounds like you didn't even give a ****. And those were fleshed-out paragraphs that RiteToRmnSilent wrote. Haha, seriously. So much for that salt.

 

[FrozenHobo]

you want me to just outright say he's an idiot and goes against everything being discussed in the wbr right now? because i can do that. hell, i want to do that. in fact, i just did.

this community is full of people that have no idea what they are talking about (i'm as guilt of this as anyone else). this has been a major problem with the B+ development: listening to every person's opinions on what "needs" to be done. a requirement to join the B+ br is some viable level of tourney experience on top of coding expertise (hence why we have high level "players" to test/give feedback on everything).

RTRS, however had this to say:

Why is everyone so concerned with the metagame!? We should make brawl+ as good and exciting as we can, then worry about the metagame.

this goes against everything that the B+ br is working towards. an incredible amount of effort has been put forth by the testers and coders to have a developed (and stable) metagame that players can actually work with. for a random person to walk in, expect everyone to drop what they're doing and kiss his ***, and say the exact opposite of what the people in the br have been working towards... well, excuse me for not jumping to attention and blowing him on the spot.


i know i'm being a **** right now, and i fully intend to be. however, don't assume that the rest of the B+ br (and the WBR in general)all act int he same manner that i do... they have this strange idea that everybody should be treated nicely for some reason.

 

[zhengman777]

Meh. We're starting to talk more about behavior than Brawl+. Taken to the PMs.

Thanks to everyone who participated!

 

[OceanBlue]

To be fair, since the BR is exclusive, we can't really know if what we're asking goes against anything. Given the amount of discussion that doesn't happen in this thread anymore, it's expected that some people would come in and ask why there's no development in a certain area.

Speaking of development, how much player development do you guys notice in the competitive scene? The character threads are dead as well, so I can't really tell anything.

 

[Alphatron]

It would be nice to recieve posts in this topic stating what the backroom is currently working on. But we don't get those at all.

By the way, FrozenHobo is NOT the voice of the brawl+ crew. He speaks for himself.

 

[Juri]

Got this working yesterday, it's pretty good especially with textures.

Jigglypuff is like gawd in this.

 

[SolarChimecho]

Jigglypuff is top tier material

 

[Gardevior]

It appears to me that the majority of the arguing in this thread comes from how unprofessional some voices of the B+ team are.

 

[Nintenden]

It appears to me that the majority of the arguing in this thread comes from how unprofessional some voices of the B+ team are.

Considering that FrozenHobo is not a part of the Brawl+ team, yes, most of it is pretty accurate.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Most of the arguing in this thread comes from people not understanding what "No Updates for 6 Months" means.

 

[zhengman777]

Most of the arguing in this thread comes from people not understanding what "No Updates for 6 Months" means.

I think you meant understanding what "No Updates for 6 Months" means.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I think you meant understanding what "No Updates for 6 Months" means.

Definitely meant what I said.

 

[Juri]

Anyone knows that codes in brawl+ are the ones that make all characters move faster is called?

 

[Kati]

"Anyone knows --what--? or --that--?" do we know --that-- codes speed up characters or do we know --what-- codes speed them up?

The speed-up on the character's attack lag is done by the .pac file in their respective folder .

This link has all the codes like momentum and gravity.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204677

 

[Juri]

"Anyone knows --what--? or --that--?" do we know --that-- codes speed up characters or do we know --what-- codes speed them up?

The speed-up on the character's attack lag is done by the .pac file in their respective folder .

This link has all the codes like momentum and gravity.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204677

Ah, come on man it was a simple typo.

And i'm guessing momentum is run/walk speed?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I don't think you're understanding. There are several attributes which affect momentum. You also have to change it on each move if you want say, more upward momentum on an up-b, for example.

 

[Juri]

I don't think you're understanding. There are several attributes which affect momentum. You also have to change it on each move if you want say, more upward momentum on an up-b, for example.

Oh wow, I didn't realize it was that complicated.

 

[CountKaiser]

There's no one code that contributes to the increase in speed of the game. It's a combination of aerial lag reduction, hitlag reduction, increased dash speeds, modified gravity, lagless edges, and several other things.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

I am still trying to set this up on Riivolution.

If I have downloaded BrawlPlus before (meaning before the current version), what files do I need to download to put in the "brawlplus" folder in "brawlmods" in order to have the latest version.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I am still trying to set this up on Riivolution.

If I have downloaded BrawlPlus before (meaning before the current version), what files do I need to download to put in the "brawlplus" folder in "brawlmods" in order to have the latest version.

Put all the files that come with it from the RSBE folder in BrawlPlus.

Rename pfmenu2 to menu2.

Open pf, copy everything out of it. Choose yes to merge the menu2 folders.

Now you should be done.