Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[IC3R]

So far, all tests with bowser flame cancel have been failures though.

Maybe check out the properties of (Toon) Link's bow?

 

[NC-Echo]

@stingers: Yea I played only Bowser at Omni's.

So far, all tests with bowser flame cancel have been failures though.

unfortunate.

 

[shanus]

we'll figure it out, it just will require more creativity

 

[NC-Echo]

we'll figure it out, it just will require more creativity

Let me know if you are interested in help testing it or other things about Bowser I have been fooling around with tweaking things as it is already.

@cape: your right it's not that hard.

 

[stingers]

how did you place there? can't imagine bowser being good in this at all

 

[matt4300]

how did you place there? can't imagine bowser being good in this at all

I'm also curious... And would love to see some vids of bowser fighting the suposed high teirs... How other bowser players deal with them.

 

[lord karn]

He got 5th place I think out of 27, beating a really good peach player and a few others that I can't remember

 

[stingers]

he beat david? O.o

 

[lord karn]

yeah

I split first with duo going almost all ganon. I was in winners bracket. did you never look at the results?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Wow...bowser fifth at a brawl+ tournament... AWESOME!!!!


and I just realized something...


The Mario series Victory theme is a remix of the old finish theme in the old super mario games.

HOW COME I JUST FIGURED THIS OUT

 

[shanus]

yeah

I split first with duo going almost all ganon. I was in winners bracket. did you never look at the results?

what are your thoguhts on Yoshi DJC (optional DJC, that is, if you hold the jump + a you do rising aerials no problem, if you let go of jump then press a you DJC aerial)

 

[Kuga]

Well,like me and YeS saind before,what about less endlag on his Bair,just a bit.
This is just some think that B+ screw offstage,like Snake Up-B C4 recovery.Or just a less Uthrow endlag.
Now he loses his Gaydair(even if he got his new Shine,his Dair was WAY2gud,but op) i think this can be add without buffing him.Because now his Bair is like his Melee Fair.

 

[IC3R]

and I just realized something...


The Mario series Victory theme is a remix of the old finish theme in the old super mario games.

HOW COME I JUST FIGURED THIS OUT

In the words of Sonic:
YOU'RE TOO SLOOOOW!!!

@Kuga:
What the heck are you talking about?

 

[Isatis]

I know, and we are keeping that in mind. I don't want to promise a day but tomorrow or wednesday should be a reasonable time frame.

I'm always gullible for rumors unfortunately.

Triangle.

 

[lord karn]

what are your thoguhts on Yoshi DJC (optional DJC, that is, if you hold the jump + a you do rising aerials no problem, if you let go of jump then press a you DJC aerial)

Hmmmm. I recently picked up yoshi again and am going to use him a lot at the tournament this weekend. The way I think you have to play yoshi is you have to space bairs to barely hit the enemy's sheild and then retreat and keep up a little bit of pressure with egg throws until you get an opening to bair again, eventually baiting them into getting hit by the bair with the eggs and then comboing.

His main problem is keeping pressure applied to people once he gets on top of them. Like I said, I usually run away and egg throw after I hit a shield, which barely applies any pressure to the opponent. One major reason for this, I think, is that he doesn't really have very good shield pressure. If you hit shield with any aerial it goes to jab, but if they shield the jab you can usually be shield grabbed or they can disengage really easily and return to neutral position. Most good characters remain in a pressuring position even when the opponent disengages. If the DJC increases yoshi's ability to shield pressure without having to retreat into a neutral position, that could very well be the buff he needs to make him on par with some of the better characters.

Also, neither of the people I play regularly play characters with good spammable projectiles. My run away and egg throw after a shielded attack strat probably would be shut down by a falco that shoots a laser when I run. Maybe I'm just not good enough with the eggs, but it seems like a lot of characters would force me to approach more directly, thus emphasizing Yoshi's inability to keep pressure applied once he's on top of someone. I'm assuming the DJC would help most with these kind of matchups, and just make the other ones easier because I don't have to be as patient.

Yoshi's amazing maneuverability allows him to return to neutral position relatively easily, meaning that it's really hard to corner him. However, he seems to stay really pressured after he shields something. Although, that might be because I play a peach regularly or because I'm not using his unique shield properties correctly. Overall, I think Yoshi is probably mid-low tier, but takes a lot of patience to play.

I'd definitely like to try it out.

 

[NC-Echo]

5th, I lost to plurs ic's; that match is impossible.

Yea I kind of got screwed having to play plur. I did really well against most everyone. I beat duo (Fox), Foxy (Fox and DK) and mits (Wolf) in friendlies and mits in a mm.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yoshi's down tilt is amazing for shield pressure.

 

[GameSystem]

Hmmmm. I recently picked up yoshi again and am going to use him a lot at the tournament this weekend. The way I think you have to play yoshi is you have to space bairs to barely hit the enemy's sheild and then retreat and keep up a little bit of pressure with egg throws until you get an opening to bair again, eventually baiting them into getting hit by the bair with the eggs and then comboing.

His main problem is keeping pressure applied to people once he gets on top of them. Like I said, I usually run away and egg throw after I hit a shield, which barely applies any pressure to the opponent. One major reason for this, I think, is that he doesn't really have very good shield pressure. If you hit shield with any aerial it goes to jab, but if they shield the jab you can usually be shield grabbed or they can disengage really easily and return to neutral position. Most good characters remain in a pressuring position even when the opponent disengages. If the DJC increases yoshi's ability to shield pressure without having to retreat into a neutral position, that could very well be the buff he needs to make him on par with some of the better characters.

Also, neither of the people I play regularly play characters with good spammable projectiles. My run away and egg throw after a shielded attack strat probably would be shut down by a falco that shoots a laser when I run. Maybe I'm just not good enough with the eggs, but it seems like a lot of characters would force me to approach more directly, thus emphasizing Yoshi's inability to keep pressure applied once he's on top of someone. I'm assuming the DJC would help most with these kind of matchups, and just make the other ones easier because I don't have to be as patient.

Yoshi's amazing maneuverability allows him to return to neutral position relatively easily, meaning that it's really hard to corner him. However, he seems to stay really pressured after he shields something. Although, that might be because I play a peach regularly or because I'm not using his unique shield properties correctly. Overall, I think Yoshi is probably mid-low tier, but takes a lot of patience to play.

I'd definitely like to try it out.

GHNeko, tell him about that dair.

 

[lord karn]

Hmmmm, I haven't really played around with that much. Can he downtilt after an aerial on shield to shield poke? The main problem I have with using dtilt is that Yoshi's initial dash is so long, that you can't really dash cancel dtilt in most situations where they are shielding unless they are far away from you, in which case they shouldn't be shielding or have time to respond.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Well I love down tilt because of it's good range (it actually matches the animation now).

It's basically a useful version of fox and falco's down tilt.

and it hits very low to the ground.


And more nair. His nair is very underrated.

 

[lord karn]

Nair isn't really a good approach because it has bad range, but it is definitely really good. If the opponent is in a certain spacing, you can bair their shield and then nair in one short hop and then jab their shield. This usually pokes shields, I think, but it is also really situational because you have to start the bair right when you jump, which isn't the way you need to do it in a lot of situations.

Dair is one of the only moves that seems to just go through peach's umbrella when edgeguarding, which is really nice. However, I haven't really been able to find out a way to incorporate it into shield pressure without having to commit to attacking really early and thus making it a really inflexible and punishable approach.

 

[stingers]

just force them to shield with an egg or something.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

but his down tilt is awesome.

I mean, I fought a friend the other day with mostly yoshi. His pit ***** me. Like 2 stock no percent.

But I actually beat his falco with yoshi. :D like one stock, but still. He seems to get hit by nair a lot....and down smash. most of my kills were with down smash. and I down tilted a lot.

 

[jalued]

Well I love down tilt because of it's good range (it actually matches the animation now).

It's basically a useful version of fox and falco's down tilt.

and it hits very low to the ground.


And more nair. His nair is very underrated.

Yeah definately, but tbh yoshi is a completely underrated character lol cause hardly anyone mains him ever

 

[lord karn]

Downsmash is definitely a good mixup now. If you space a bair in a way that would normally be punishable on their shield you can trick them into unshielding and then getting hit by a dsmash. I've started using it a lot more recently. I'll try and use dtilt more.

Forcing to shield with an egg might be good, but I think that egg is punishable if you do it close enough to dair afterwords. That's why I usually egg and then run in with a bair. Yoshi plays a lot like vbrawl wario to me.

 

[stingers]

does dtilt have fixed knockback like in 64?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I don't think so. but it has more range I believe

 

[camelot]

does dtilt have fixed knockback like in 64?

I believe it does in Melee.

 

[skstylez]

hey, i have a few things regarding the shine JC:
1st on fox, is there any way to completely remove the ground delay it has? b/c There is a limit to how fast he can JC from the ground shine animation i believe (could be the ground jump animation but i don't think it is). From air his JC's are much faster

And i have a little suggestion for falco and his shine. Well i was wondering if u could give him the JC but alter his shine xD. So the shine (when fully used), will still extend, but the extension is only for reflecting projectiles. His true hitbox will be around his body just like fox and melee falco, seems fair and much more exciting to me. Also wish his short hop were a bit lower so his SHDL were a bit harder (try vBrawl and going to heavy mode, and then double lasering on falco, i loved that ).

What do you guys think?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

about the falco thing:


1. Nice idea, but it prob won't happen. His reflector has a new purpose. It combo's because it pulls inward.

2. Nice idea as well, but he's getting something different. He's getting SHFFL instead. Short Hop Fast Fall Laser. He can only shoot one in a short hop now, but he can fastfall during it and it's a reasonable tradeoff.

 

[zxeon]

Dial it down a little SymphonicSage12. That was entirely too much yelling for that response.

 

[shanus]

hey, i have a few things regarding the shine JC:
1st on fox, is there any way to completely remove the ground delay it has? b/c There is a limit to how fast he can JC from the ground shine animation i believe (could be the ground jump animation but i don't think it is). From air his JC's are much faster

And i have a little suggestion for falco and his shine. Well i was wondering if u could give him the JC but alter his shine xD. So the shine (when fully used), will still extend, but the extension is only for reflecting projectiles. His true hitbox will be around his body just like fox and melee falco, seems fair and much more exciting to me. Also wish his short hop were a bit lower so his SHDL were a bit harder (try vBrawl and going to heavy mode, and then double lasering on falco, i loved that ).

What do you guys think?

They are identical, they actually use the same exact animation for both.

 

[Stevo]

I wonder how many pages this thread would be minus S.Sage12 and responses to him.... lol


Im just kidding, its good to keep discussion going....

but seriously.... think about it.

 

[zxeon]

Lol, that's an interesting thought.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Oh calm down. He's just voicing himself. I see no trolling in there.

We all like to make stupid comments like that anyway.

 

[Dai Tian]

Take out all the posts about:

"Where's the nightly guys?"
"There's a nightly coming out soon right?"
"Where's the new nightly Shanus?"
"WHERE THE **** IS OUR NEW NIGHTLY?!"

We'd get more pages taken off with that too. We probably wouldn't have gotten the little comic out of it though if they were gone though

 

[Shadic]

The comic is old, from Sonicandtails, and has been posted before.

I'm fairly certain he did it right around the Ness DJC thing was going around.

 

[Alphatron]

Let Sage voice his opinion so long as he doesn't flame anyone or get too angry. Meanwhile, about that there Kirby. We need a monstah to clobbah him. Seeing as how he's gotten complaints alongside MK and MK is being nerfed, I suspect Kirby will recieve a few nerfs too.

And must we really drop Magus cancelling? D: Can't we just work out the theorycrafting required to balance the tech? Like cutting away 33.3% of the lag while eating up the same percent of the shield? Or are there other factors I'm not considering?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yeah, I should remove the "HELL NO"'s. that was really rude of me. And I liked the magus-cancelling idea D:. It would be really useful for D3 and DK. I mean Bairs with even less lag would awesome for D3, and how often does D3 use his shield? I mean, his grab basically IS his shield.


EDIT: and sorry this is late, I was watching America's Got Talent. X_X

 

[Dan_X]

No Sage, I agree with you, those proposed Falco changes were pretty bad.