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Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

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SymphonicSage12

SymphonicSage12

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Well, I disagreed with them, but that didn't give me the right to say HELL NO. So I removed it put something a little nicer in.

And is anyone working on the bowser shield damage **** changes? How's it going so far?
 
D

Dan_X

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SymphonicSage12 said:
Well, I disagreed with them, but that didn't give me the right to say HELL NO. So I removed it put something a little nicer in.

And is anyone working on the bowser shield damage **** changes? How's it going so far?
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I'm pretty sure they decided not to implement said changes as it would actually hurt Bowser more than it would help. Not only does Bowser seldomely get many attacks on a shield before being grabbed, but doing more damage to shields will cause the enemy to keep a slight bit more distance, being more cautious with their shield. This would hurt Bowsers grab game as they would try harder to keep away, and seldomly is it a better idea to pressure shields when you can instead grab them.
 
Alphatron

Alphatron

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That would be unfortunate for Bowser, because more damage to shields means more shield stun. With more shield stun, some of Bowser's moves could actually be safe on shields...which a large number of them really aren't.
 
Shell

Shell

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I tested it earlier with frame advance, more damage (specifically) to shields does not, in fact, mean more shield stun.
 
shanus

shanus

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We removed the shield damage since it doesn't add shieldstun.

However, the good news is I got flame cancelling working.


P.S. Bowser new physics = spiffy
 
matt4300

matt4300

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SHeLL said:
I tested it earlier with frame advance, more damage (specifically) to shields does not, in fact, mean more shield stun.
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Whats this mean for bowser and this buffs potential of makeing it in?
Come on shell your WBR give us the skinny!



EDIT: ToT NOoooooo! ****........ I thought the main point was to just make him do more shield damage... Thats a good buff no matter how you looks at it. Just because it doesnt do more shield stun doesnt mean its not still usfull to bowser...

And doesnt flame canceling just cancel the start up.... The cool down is the problem.
 
shanus

shanus

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zxeon said:
You sorcerers! Care to break down how this miracle happened?
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I made the aerial and grounded use the same animation IDs and made the aerial startup set a bit to true.

Then in the subaction for neutral start up, if bit is set, if on ground, speed up animation 20x
 
Alphatron

Alphatron

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SHeLL said:
I tested it earlier with frame advance, more damage (specifically) to shields does not, in fact, mean more shield stun.
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...Well, ****. Either way, I'd still consider this to be a decent buff to him as the shield is still effective against him and his attacks aside from fsmash don't push back on hit enough to keep the opponent from decently punishing him.
 
NC-Echo

NC-Echo

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matt4300 said:
And doesnt flame canceling just cancel the start up.... The cool down is the problem.
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Shanus I am extremely glad you got it to work because it's cool but matt has a point. The real problem is the lag, because you get punished for landing firebreath because of the lag on the end.



Also when I ran tests of my own, increasing shield damage did increase shield stun by some fraction, am I missing something. Either way, I still think having shield damage with Bowser would be good even without shield stun... just not nearly as good as it would be with shield stun.
 
Mattnumbers

Mattnumbers

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Does this mean the set will come out earlier? Or are there other new things your going to add that have recently come up?

If there have been, then no problem, I'm willing to wait especially since we'll have this build for a while.

Thanks for all the work you've done guys, the community really appreciates it (whether they show that appreciation or not)
 
Yanoss1313

Yanoss1313

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Orca said:
Well, with MC we'd still have auto L-canceling, cutting ALR in half, or more. MC would further that lag cut by giving you zero lag, but you'll have to time the shield input as if you were executing a manual L-cancel. The known risk involved with MCing, and it’s a choice, is that it eats away a certain % of your shield each time you perform said technique. Is it possible that this would lead to shield breaking? Sure, if the MC is used foolishly, and spammed, you'll likely be punished in the form of shield breaking. However, the benefit of MCing is that you can follow up immediately, completely laglessly.

Your shield is in no danger of breaking whatsoever if you don't make use of MCing. Conversely, if you use MCing sparigly, and efficiently your shield should also be safe. The only chance you have at getting your shield broken is abusing MCing, poor spacing, and playing in too predictable a fashion.

The overlying point here is that MCing will add a wealth of depth to the game. It's not an obscure mechanic because you aren't forced to use it if you don't want to. Using it would be beneficial, sure, but it’d still be an option, not a necessity. One thing is almost certain; it would make heavies and strong characters frightening, giving them in particular a new bag of deadly tricks.

Would MCing create a campy game? No, absolutely not. There’s a simple reason for this. MCing is NOT just a mindless button press, but a tactical option. You’re never FORCED to MC against your will, as such; you’ll never jeopardize your shield unless you willingly do so. If MC wasn’t an option, if it was downright mandatory, then your shield would always be in a vulnerable, or in a near vulnerable state, as such, then it would create a campy game. Only if MCing mandatory would gameplay become campy. The game would literally play out just as it does now, if you don’t use MCing, and there will be virtually no effect on shields.

In the end, I really think MCing would be very beneficial to the game. It’s something that every character can utilize, some making better use of it than others. It’d add some technical skill the game, requiring intellect and skill, for abusing MC is quite costly. I strongly think that MCing is just the mechanic we could use to create more depth in Brawl+.

It’s such a great idea! I'd love to see this in the next build (I mean to say the one we wait 5 or so months for).
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'
Ok, I'm really really liking the sound of this, but i think there's a little room for extra depth :O
the more look into the possibilities Magus Cancel potentially opens up, the more i get a "Baroque cancel from tvc" or "Roman cancel from guilty gear" feel, what i mean to say, is, would there be anything to gain from using Magus Cancel to not only end landing lag, but any lag? i feel there are a wealth of possibilities in exploring this.

it could be very interesting to characters like Ike with allot of lag after moves like his Usmash. and if grounded Magus Canceling is "too good" we could increase it's cost, maybe make the player executing it take 10% damage (in the vein of Baroque canceling)

i think this may very well be the key to add the extra depth that we've all been craving

I'd really like to hear your opinions on this.
 
Alphatron

Alphatron

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How about we allow Bowser to teleport? He needs to stop holding back on the rest of the brawlers and use some of that crazy black magic koopa-*shot mercilessly*
 
Nybb

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Any word on changes to Ike in the forthcoming long-term build? The poor guy hasn't gotten much attention outside of random noobs complaining about his character weaknesses needing to buffed (i.e. something that starts with "r" and ends with "ecovery"), which is really not what should happen. His recovery would be quite acceptable with some minor buffs to his on-stage game.
 
The Cape

The Cape

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Nybb said:
Any word on changes to Ike in the forthcoming long-term build? The poor guy hasn't gotten much attention outside of random noobs complaining about his character weaknesses needing to buffed (i.e. something that starts with "r" and ends with "ecovery"), which is really not what should happen. His recovery would be quite acceptable with some minor buffs to his on-stage game.
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Well Ike has the sideB attack that allows him to move afterwards (jump or upB are best).

As for his on stage game, he has a retooled F tilt that comes out and windsdown a bit faster with a bit less KB on it and his D tilt cools down faster. That makes both moves very useful and I actually find myself using F tilt a good deal more.

U throw also has a sooner IASA which can lead to frame perfect U throw to uair on a decent amount of the cast, or can lead Ike to do U throw to an AD chase :-p
 
KOkingpin

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so i saw a few pages back that you all were talking about yoshi.

Dtilt is awesome for gimps. Dair only guarantees DSmash when they start to actually fall to the ground From hits. Grab combos are amazing. Yoshi has some sick combos on everyone from either DThrow or UThrow. I meant to record my videos at the tourney but we all just forgot to mess with it. The best way to use nair ive found is to buffer it from your jump then hit the shield then double jump before you hit the ground and Yoshi bomb them for shield grabbing. Stars keep you from getting punished. Nair is also really good for ledge guarding while holding the ledge, albeit a bit dangerous. Fall from ledge reverse your double jump and rising Nair then DI back to the Ledge. If you throw an egg more often than not you will end up killing yourself

BTW i placed 3rd at the latest Game Galaxy tourney playing all Yoshi. I lost to CF and Wario. and I took wario to round five in losers finals. every match I lost I wasn't playing Yoshi. but they were terrible Yoshi stages. should have took him to Brinstar.
 
Plum

Plum

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KOkingpin said:
BTW i placed 3rd at the latest Game Galaxy tourney playing all Yoshi. I lost to CF and Wario. and I took wario to round five in losers finals. every match I lost I wasn't playing Yoshi. but they were terrible Yoshi stages. should have took him to Brinstar.
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Taking Wario to his own best stage? Oh son, I hope you would have known what you were doing if you made that move.

(though I don't know how well Yoshi does on the stage... without a doubt Wario's best stage though)
 
Rudra

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zxeon said:
My intention was to make you want to burn some witches.
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I'll remember that for when I fight some Ganon or Zelda then. =3

The Cape said:
As for his on stage game, he has a retooled F tilt that comes out and windsdown a bit faster with a bit less KB on it and his D tilt cools down faster. That makes both moves very useful and I actually find myself using F tilt a good deal more.

U throw also has a sooner IASA which can lead to frame perfect U throw to uair on a decent amount of the cast, or can lead Ike to do U throw to an AD chase :-p
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Sounds good. I like the idea for Uthrow>Uair, but just how avoidable is it?
 
Swordplay

Swordplay

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I'm curious as to what you guys did with mario........

Matt4300 and have played around with him for some time now and laugh how his recovery might even be worse than Link's now. Mario can combo like hell but what can he KO with besides F-smash which is his longest start up move? I think mario rely's too much on gimps and against characters that have good recoveries, mario seems screwed. I hope you gave him another onstage tool or more versatile recovery.

then again I could be completely wrong but that's what I think after playing a few good mario's
 
WheelOfFish

WheelOfFish

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Mario is awesome, what are you talking about? Go watch Boss play. It's actually a little scary what Mario can do. XD
 
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