Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[bajisci]

although u shouldnt be using that move anyway, i agree :D

 

[Mattnumbers]

I agree with Toxicow, I actually wanted to bring that up somewhere but wasn't sure where to put it (I guess here would be the best place for suggestions then).

PK Freeze is overall a pretty useless move as well, maybe you could do some other tweaks to it to make it a more viable move to use.

 

[ToxiCrow]

PK Freeze is overall a pretty useless move as well, maybe you could do some other tweaks to it to make it a more viable move to use.

although u shouldnt be using that move anyway, i agree :D

its good for forcing an airdodge and it can stage-spike. but yeah, we agreed in the OBR that it sucks. u dont even want to edgeguard with it because it'll help their recovery.

 

[Shell]

I tried adjusting the KB power and angle of the Freeze back in the day, to little avail. The hitbox code just wasn't quite cooperating with it.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

It plays the usual song.

5-12 Impressions:

Wolf's new fair angle seems weird to me, but it does seem to be easy to juggle out of it, often for a kill. I'm assuming that was the intended effect of the change.

DDD can also pick up and throw Waddles during his stopping animation after a dash (technically part of a dash, but worth mentioning) and while in the air. However, unless he's running or airborne, he cannot pick up ANY items. I don't know if this applies to catching as well, but I have no reason to doubt that it does. I imagine this being a BIG problem for him whenever he fights Peach, Diddy, Snake, and to a lesser extent, ROB. I don't think the trade is worth it.

Falco's shine hasn't gotten any easier for me to use since the change popped yesterday. It seems like either the angle is too shallow, making it too easy to send opponents behind you instead of above, or the hitstun isn't quite high enough to allow Falco to recover in time to properly set up a follow up that isn't utilt, which only works if the spacing is perfect.

In a side comment, Falco's shine no longer has an electric effect on hit, which seems a little odd given the sfx. Purely aesthetic concern.

I'm liking ZSS's fsmash buff. It feels pretty meaty now, and the backswing isn't bad. She still needs work, but she feels nicer than before.

judging from this, im guessing her fsmash can kill now. buffing good characters is so lol-worthy

 

[leafgreen386]

judging from this, im guessing her fsmash can kill now. buffing good characters is so lol-worthy

Trade-off, not buff. Her sideB was nerfed.

 

[GPDP]

I decided to mess with Falco, Ike, and Lucario's gravity settings, and I think I got some good stuff.

Falco (133868C0)
sh: .95
fh: 1.1
ff: 1.05
dg: 1.1
fg: 1.2

Ike (22467460)

sh: 1
fh: 1.05
ff: 1.075
dg: 1
fg: 1.05

Lucario (213865C0)

sh: .95
fh: 1.1
ff: 1.05
dg: 1.025
fg: 1.2

Falco feels amazing. Fast jumps, and even faster shffls can be performed. His double laser is just a little bit harder to pull off, but it's not too hard, and it's manageable even with 0 buffer. Overall, I like this setting.

Ike, well... he really doesn't feel all that different, though I increased the fullgrav and left the jumps alone, which would mean they're just a tad shorter. Still, he feels like he needs something else, particularly with his shffls. Perhaps more fast fall?

Lucario is pretty nice, though I can see this change being a bit controversial. His fair to fair/nair/uair is very hard to do on 0 buffer, but quite doable with buffer, and still a bit easier than Marth's double fair. Still, he doesn't feel too floaty anymore on the way up, and maybe that won't sit well with Lucario mains. I dunno. I'll want some feedback on this one for sure.

I'd love to try to do Link and Samus, but I'm afraid of borking their recoveries, so I'm gonna leave them alone unless I get a word from Almas on how to avoid that.

 

[Roxas215]

judging from this, im guessing her fsmash can kill now. buffing good characters is so lol-worthy

This i haven't played the new build yet but there is absoultley no reason to buff zss more then she is. She is easily top 5 in the game already. How many times and how many different people have to say it? A char don't need EVERY MOVE to be good to be a a good character. From the sounds of it not only did u speed up her fsmash but it also gains more knockback? WTH?

 

[HeroPenguin]

I actually like the trade off for DDD. The best way to pick up items imo is to just hit grab as you pass it while in the air because the items literally poof into your hand without any lag. Just short hop, fast fall and press Z, or whatever grab is set to. When fighting an aggressive Diddy it becomes a necessity to grab the bananas like this because the small lag of picking up the banana by standing next to it and pressing A can be punished by his second banana, and air dodging, using an aerial, or dash attack has even more lag.
If it can be fixed, cool, but for now it is worth to deal with a minor inconvenience to not have those stupid waddles get in the way imo.

I disagree. I've always been an advocate of KISS, and short-hop Z-grabbing to pick up an item on the ground in front of you spits in the face of that principle. Tactically advantageous or not, it shouldn't be a requirement to jump through hoops to pick something up.

In terms of the Waddles, would it be possible to somehow hack them so they don't register as items? Since the fix to disallow Dedede to throw them affected items, it seems to follow that they fall under the same category. It might be something to look into.

i have a request regarding Lucas.
he goes into helpless if he uses PKFreeze in the air but it doesnt aide his recovery at all. can we remove the helpless state after he uses it? i mean, if Zelda doesnt go into helpless after using her side-b and ness doesnt after using his up-b, why cant Lucas?
yeah i no people dont really care much for him, but he's still a character =]

I'd just like to echo this for Ness's PK Flash. Also, I think there's a definite argument for giving Lucas the same reusable midair PK Thunder as Ness has. It's harder to do, but by clashing his bolt he can still be gimped just like Ness, which seems lame to me.

 

[shanus]

This i haven't played the new build yet but there is absoultley no reason to buff zss more then she is. She is easily top 5 in the game already. How many times and how many different people have to say it? A char don't need EVERY MOVE to be good to be a a good character. From the sounds of it not only did u speed up her fsmash but it also gains more knockback? WTH?

Hey >B was nerfed and fsmash was buffed. Trade-offs are fun!

GD: can you PM me this stuff as you build up more and more? Also make sure Ike can SH autocancel bair

 

[ToxiCrow]

Also, I think there's a definite argument for giving Lucas the same reusable midair PK Thunder as Ness has. It's harder to do, but by clashing his bolt he can still be gimped just like Ness, which seems lame to me.

yeah but think about Lucas recovery options. he's got
-Zap Jump
-Wave Zap
-Wave Bounce
-Magnet Pull
-Tether


i want his fast PKFire back. i thought it was awesome when it came out that fast. but i have been told by SHeLL that many people complained about it

 

[leafgreen386]

GPDP: I already took care of link physics.

You might be dropping ff a little bit too much. I'm not sure. I'll give some of your values a test. I'll be testing falco and lucario especially rigorously, since I was going to give them quite a bit of time after finishing tweaking fox.

 

[HeroPenguin]

yeah but think about Lucas recovery options. he's got
-Zap Jump
-Wave Zap
-Wave Bounce
-Magnet Pull
-Tether

if they make his PKT re-appear like Ness's, then there would be no way to stop him from recovering. dont get me wrong: i'm all for buffing lucas ( i use him in vbrawl) but we also have to think about things that would make him too good.
i want his fast PKFire back. i thought it was awesome when it came out that fast. but i have been told by SHeLL that many people complained about it

Well what do you know. All those options still work in Brawl+. I remembered reading that zapjump was removed, but it's not, and now I can't find mention of that on the patch notes, so I guess either I was mistaken or it's been removed.

Weird buggy shenanigans. XD I still think that it's a bit foul play to gimp a character by interrupting their recovery (anyone else that gets interrupted like that gets theirs BACK), but Lucas seems pretty well taken care of in that respect. Ah well, carry on.

 

[GPDP]

shanus: Will do. Also, yes, Ike can AC the bair, even at 0 buffer, though it's about as hard as thunderstorming.

leaf: How does fast fall interact with full grav? Is it a multiplicative effect? If so, I should be getting the values spot on or as close to spot on as possible.

 

[leafgreen386]

shanus: Will do. Also, yes, Ike can AC the bair, even at 0 buffer, though it's about as hard as thunderstorming.

leaf: How does fast fall interact with full grav? Is it a multiplicative effect? If so, I should be getting the values spot on or as close to spot on as possible.

I believe it's multiplicative with dgrav (so to answer your question, yes).

I'm mostly saying this because I never found anything particularly wrong with the fast falls, just how slow the initial jumps were. But I'll certainly try it out.

 

[ToxiCrow]

Well what do you know. All those options still work in Brawl+. I remembered reading that zapjump was removed, but it's not, and now I can't find mention of that on the patch notes, so I guess either I was mistaken or it's been removed.

Weird buggy shenanigans. XD I still think that it's a bit foul play to gimp a character by interrupting their recovery (anyone else that gets interrupted like that gets theirs BACK), but Lucas seems pretty well taken care of in that respect. Ah well, carry on.

they took out 'Super Zap Jump'. it happened when Lucas's PK fire was made faster.

so how about it? can we get Lucas to not go helpless after using PKFreeze?

 

[Dan_X]

Falco's shine hasn't gotten any easier for me to use since the change popped yesterday. It seems like either the angle is too shallow, making it too easy to send opponents behind you instead of above, or the hitstun isn't quite high enough to allow Falco to recover in time to properly set up a follow up that isn't utilt, which only works if the spacing is perfect.

In a side comment, Falco's shine no longer has an electric effect on hit, which seems a little odd given the sfx. Purely aesthetic concern.

It's not supposed to be easier to use, it's supposed to reward Falco with more for landing it. It is perfect the way it is. If you don't find it perfect, you're not using it right, and comboing correctly out of it. It's very useful. The hitstun is perfect. If the enemy DIs they may move beyond the point at which you expected to attack, however you can still hit them if your read their movement. It's great. It's supposed to be harder to land than it was before-- being that it takes twice as long to come out. All in all, this is one of the most unique character changes in Brawl+, that and the IC's blizzard. It doesn't need further changing.

I decided to mess with Falco...

Falco (133868C0)
sh: .95
fh: 1.1
ff: 1.05
dg: 1.1
fg: 1.2

Falco feels amazing. Fast jumps, and even faster shffls can be performed. His double laser is just a little bit harder to pull off, but it's not too hard, and it's manageable even with 0 buffer. Overall, I like this setting.

Thanks, but Falco feels great just the way he is. He's quick, responsive, and I like him the way he plays right now. Please don't change Falco's gravity settings, he's fine as is, it's not worth it. In addition, it's great how his SHDL is now... that and his B-reversed lasers.

Please don't implement said change...

 

[GPDP]

Falco felt fine, yes. But this feels even better IMO.

Just give it a try, see how you like it.

 

[cubaisdeath]

so did the wolf shine change back to normal?


also is there any way to put lag on falco lasers? I'm tired of getting camped by falco in every game he is in, and is by far the worst in brawl+. the fact that he can retreat and then side b past you for safety the entire game is kinda gay

 

[GHNeko]

so did the wolf shine change back to normal?


also is there any way to put lag on falco lasers? I'm tired of getting camped by falco in every game he is in, and is by far the worst in brawl+. the fact that he can retreat and then side b past you for safety the entire game is kinda gay

CP platform stages like Luigi's manshion. Does wonders.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I think zss was fine and didn't need a trade off but ill try it out b4 I judge

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I think all the characters should be nerfed. This is pretty much everyone complaining that their character should be better >_>

 

[GHNeko]

I think all the characters should be nerfed. This is pretty much everyone complaining that their character should be better >_>

LOL. Also, was that you subscribing to me on Youtube. O_o

 

[cubaisdeath]

CP platform stages like Luigi's manshion. Does wonders.

I think its just cuz the person I know that plays falco is a ******. he *****es about me playing MK, when I can't even do anything vs falco because of that. if I CP a platform stage all he'll do is ***** about my "platform camping."



also, LOL @ fiction. my character got nerfed. he went from being the best to almost the best...maybe

 

[GHNeko]

I think its just cuz the person I know that plays falco is a ******. he *****es about me playing MK, when I can't even do anything vs falco because of that. if I CP a platform stage all he'll do is ***** about my "platform camping."



also, LOL @ fiction. my character got nerfed. he went from being the best to almost the best...maybe

wtf. Smash his face in. Its a counter pick for a reason. Platforms > Falco, especially Luigi's.

 

[bajisci]

Is there any way to make repeated jabs like sheiks any less gay and spammable? they do tons of damage and are hardly punishable short of them jabbing opposite of you

 

[goodoldganon]

Is there any way to make repeated jabs like sheiks any less gay and spammable? they do tons of damage and are hardly punishable short of them jabbing opposite of you

It's pretty annoying, I know.

 

[bajisci]

It's pretty annoying, I know.

If anything, they should do less damage

 

[Yingyay]

would it be possible to give jabs slight increases on KBG?

 

[Jimbo_G]

Hey, is it possible to significantly increase Link's shield hitbox (the shield in his hand, not the one you block with) to make him more or less highly impervious to projectiles from the front, at least while he's standing and running? I don't know if that would be overpowered or not, but I feel it's a part of his character that really needs to be more significant than just a decoration.

 

[GHNeko]

Cant touch hitbox size. Sorry.

 

[Yingyay]

Hey, is it possible to significantly increase Link's shield hitbox (the shield in his hand, not the one you block with) to make him more or less highly impervious to projectiles from the front, at least while he's standing and running? I don't know if that would be overpowered or not, but I feel it's a part of his character that really needs to be more significant than just a decoration.

At least he can block things with his sheild.
I wish sheik could use her dagger or captain falcon use his pistol, OR ganon use his sword.

 

[CountKaiser]

At least he can block things with his sheild.
I wish sheik could use her dagger or captain falcon use his pistol, OR ganon use his sword.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsGm3XsBFmI

 

[Dan_X]

so did the wolf shine change back to normal?


also is there any way to put lag on falco lasers? I'm tired of getting camped by falco in every game he is in, and is by far the worst in brawl+. the fact that he can retreat and then side b past you for safety the entire game is kinda gay

That's how he plays. That's like saying is there a way we can remove Diddy's bananas because I hate slipping on them. It comes with the characters territory, learn how to counter it.

 

[Jimbo_G]

At least he can block things with his sheild.
I wish sheik could use her dagger or captain falcon use his pistol, OR ganon use his sword.

Well, not really. =/ Technically he can, but the hitbox is so small I don't think it has EVER been used intentionally with any real benefit coming out of it. Unlike the other characters' props Link's shield actually has a BUILT IN function to it. I was hoping we could somehow make it more than just a passing observation, but GHNeko just said we can't change hitbox size, so oh well, never mind. XP

 

[XSilvenX]

Opinions for 5/11 CODESET

Umm ...

"-Falco shine change re-added now that we know attackID 0F gives hitstun, at 120¼ angle from 20¼, and has 80 BKB from 35 (PLEASE PROVIDE FEEDBACK)"

Yeah it's stupid. A lot of the players I know use it to keep people away from them and sometimes against upb's that have good priority so that they stay OFF the stage. With this **** it now helps them get back on the stage and it fails at setting up for combos...not to mention what else does Falco need for combos? It's so unnecessary. If you guys haven't seen what Falco could do in Brawl+ already please click the link in my sig to see some of the Falco combos that Hoyo pull off. He's already decent and his moveset is already perfect for Brawl+.

I already stated how this was supposed to be a keep away move but I dunno I guess people are so set on turning shines back into combo starters like how it was in Melee.. *sigh*

Sonic
And Sonic's dsmash is still spammable and unpunishable....not sure what you guys are going for here *_* just put it the way it originally was already. All the good sonic mains have already veto'd against it..if you guys are gonna listen to the n00b sonic mains then you might as well make sonic run faster too and make his fsmash KO at 20%.... *double sigh*

Link
Not really sure what's going on with the physics change.. Why is this even here? Did people really complain about Link not feeling right? He seems to fall like a brick now but I guess it doesn't matter to me since I'm not a Link player and I don't know if this is a good or bad change. Link players get to work..

And now for the good news..

I'm glad the Wolf shine is gone.

I'm also liking the ZSS changes.

 

[cubaisdeath]

That's how he plays. That's like saying is there a way we can remove Diddy's bananas because I hate slipping on them. It comes with the characters territory, learn how to counter it.

yeah, I know how to play against it, its just annoying as hell. Falco just sat there and laser camped me, then side b away in brawl, but now he does the same **** but better lol. its just annoying. oh well

 

[rinoH]

i want wolf's shine back it really added a lot to his combo potential and falco is really annoying with his lasers
i think you should buff Pit's ftilt a little bit and make his fsmash weaker so there will be less spam of it

 

[GHNeko]

yeah, I know how to play against it, its just annoying as hell. Falco just sat there and laser camped me, then side b away in brawl, but now he does the same **** but better lol. its just annoying. oh well

PLATFORMMSSSS.

i want wolf's shine back it really added a lot to his combo potential and falco is really annoying with his lasers
i think you should buff Pit's ftilt a little bit and make his fsmash weaker so there will be less spam of it

The problem with the shine was how at 120%+ percent, it guaranteed a kill. The KB was always teh same, regardless of percents, and that's not a good thing. Also, it generally became a better option than spot dodges in many situations. Someone is going to grab/hit you? Just shine instead of spot dodge, and bam, free combos OR kill.

It was too good. Especially since you could pillar with it. OH GOD PILLARRRINGGGG

 

[CountKaiser]

Neko, it wasn't against a shield, so it isn't true pillaring.