Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[XSilvenX]

Didn't know there was a nightly thread until Gannon told me so ugh..gonna just copy paste my opinions on the 5/11 set...

Umm ...

"-Falco shine change re-added now that we know attackID 0F gives hitstun, at 120¼ angle from 20¼, and has 80 BKB from 35 (PLEASE PROVIDE FEEDBACK)"

Yeah it's stupid. A lot of the players I know use it to keep people away from them and sometimes against upb's that have good priority so that they stay OFF the stage. With this **** it now helps them get back on the stage and it fails at setting up for combos...not to mention what else does Falco need for combos? It's so unnecessary. If you guys haven't seen what Falco could do in Brawl+ already please click the link in my sig to see some of the Falco combos that Hoyo pull off. He's already decent and his moveset is already perfect for Brawl+.

I already stated how this was supposed to be a keep away move but I dunno I guess people are so set on turning shines back into combo starters like how it was in Melee.. *sigh*

Sonic
And Sonic's dsmash is still spammable and unpunishable....not sure what you guys are going for here *_* just put it the way it originally was already. All the good sonic mains have already veto'd against it..if you guys are gonna listen to the n00b sonic mains then you might as well make sonic run faster too and make his fsmash KO at 20%.... *double sigh*

Link
Not really sure what's going on with the physics change.. Why is this even here? Did people really complain about Link not feeling right? He seems to fall like a brick now but I guess it doesn't matter to me since I'm not a Link player and I don't know if this is a good or bad change. Link players get to work..

And now for the good news..

I'm glad the Wolf shine is gone.

I'm also liking the ZSS changes.

 

[shanus]

For Wolf, I got the speed up value of the grounded shine to work guaranteed into an fsmash or downsmash now. How's that for versatility (seems almost too good)

Also Silven, I don't know which nightly build your using, but the current one seems to have good amount of lag following sonics downsmash. Fast startup, fairly slow to stand up.

Regarding falco: Do remember it has 8 frames of startup now pre-hitbox (double its previous) and is fairly trivial to DI, but DI'ing up can but you at risk for a dair. It also served as a great trade off to reduce the laser damage (hell, I'd even aim for going to 1 damage from 3, but people thought 2 was sufficient enough). Post in the falco threads because the falco mains seem to really eat this shine change up, so debate it with them and I'll keep an eye on it. I have no preference if it stays in or not, but when I got like 50 PMs for it, it seems like something that got them excited (sort of like the lucario upB, but that one is the coolest thing in the world)

 

[GHNeko]

I got the speed up value of the grounded shine to work guaranteed into an fsmash or downsmash now. How's that for versatility (seems almost too good)

fffffffffffffffff.

Thats basically the same issue with the old shine.

High Percents > Shine > KO move, except now its on the ground. IIRC, I dont think you can DI down to tech the dsmash. Fsmash I know about, but dsmash is rage worthy.

 

[Kuga]

Curse falco mains love his shine Change,they dont think his new shine is necessary,they just think how the Shine is zexy and good,if you see,90% os the people WHO agree with his new shine,is a falco main,and say,''ohh,his Shine is good now,this can combo with alot of things''.
And i agree with Silver about Up-b with the Shine,its so stupdy >.<
I imagine,his Shine now is better for gimp than Fox :D:D

 

[XSilvenX]

I decided to mess with Falco, Ike, and Lucario's gravity settings, and I think I got some good stuff.

Falco (133868C0)
sh: .95
fh: 1.1
ff: 1.05
dg: 1.1
fg: 1.2

Ike (22467460)

sh: 1
fh: 1.05
ff: 1.075
dg: 1
fg: 1.05

Lucario (213865C0)

sh: .95
fh: 1.1
ff: 1.05
dg: 1.025
fg: 1.2

Falco feels amazing. Fast jumps, and even faster shffls can be performed. His double laser is just a little bit harder to pull off, but it's not too hard, and it's manageable even with 0 buffer. Overall, I like this setting.

Ike, well... he really doesn't feel all that different, though I increased the fullgrav and left the jumps alone, which would mean they're just a tad shorter. Still, he feels like he needs something else, particularly with his shffls. Perhaps more fast fall?

Lucario is pretty nice, though I can see this change being a bit controversial. His fair to fair/nair/uair is very hard to do on 0 buffer, but quite doable with buffer, and still a bit easier than Marth's double fair. Still, he doesn't feel too floaty anymore on the way up, and maybe that won't sit well with Lucario mains. I dunno. I'll want some feedback on this one for sure.

I'd love to try to do Link and Samus, but I'm afraid of borking their recoveries, so I'm gonna leave them alone unless I get a word from Almas on how to avoid that.

Umm... why are you messing with character physics? They were fine to begin with. Stop this nonsense already dude, it's people like you (adding unnecessary changes) that will turn Brawl+ into garbage and make people wanna go back to playing vBrawl. Just because you like the "feel" of those characters doesn't mean other people who actually use these characters in tournament will like it, now stop trying to force feed us these arbitrary physics changes that aren't really even needed..


And Shanus I am using 5/11 the latest build...but whatever, I won't even bother anymore. The only reason I care at the moment is because of "Beyond The Limit"(tournament) and I'm trying to help balance but I guess the 50 Falco/Sonic n00bs who have never been to a tournament and know nothing about balance have priority over the small minority of serious players who actually do know a thing or two about balance.

 

[shanus]

fffffffffffffffff.

Thats basically the same issue with the old shine.

High Percents > Shine > KO move, except now its on the ground. IIRC, I dont think you can DI down to tech the dsmash. Fsmash I know about, but dsmash is rage worthy.

Probably true, i could make it only go into a dtilt prolly, ftilt *maybe*

Everything is within 1-2 frames of each other, its hard to make it good and versatile

 

[kupo15]

Umm... why are you messing with character physics? They were fine to begin with. Stop this nonsense already dude, it's people like you (adding unnecessary) changes that will turn Brawl+ into garbage and make people wanna go back to playing vBrawl. Just because you like the "feel" of those characters doesn't mean other people who actually use these characters in tournament will like it, now stop trying to force feed us these arbitrary physics changes that aren't really even needed..

Attacking someone who wants to help the project is not right. You should lay off and be open minded because the jumps in this game suck and they really need to be better. I don't see you spending your days testing things out like he is and presenting them to help further the game. Its amazing how many needed fixes are deemed "unnecessary."

 

[Kuga]

For me,His Laz0rz nerf is not a good trade with his New Shine,the Shine is SO much better than 3% laz0rz

 

[XSilvenX]

Attacking someone who wants to help the project is not right. You should lay off and be open minded because the jumps in this game suck and they really need to be better. I don't see you spending your days testing things out like he is and presenting them to help further the game.

How in high heaven do the jumps in this game suck? Woow this makes me think you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. You can't be serious.... It's the way it's supposed to be, some characters have good jumps...some characters have bad jumps. That's just how it is for balance. What is your ultimatum here? For every character regardless of how good/bad they are to have amazing jumps? The physics changes are so dam useless I feel sorry for the guy because he actually spends his time testing this stuff out. If you don't believe that it will ruin the game see how players will feel when in each version the character physics are changed and the players have to adjust the way they play each time a newer version comes out. That should be fun..

And for my information what "needed" changes are you referring to in your last line. Seriously how do you even know what's needed or not when you don't properly play 95% of the characters you're changing...

 

[GPDP]

Umm... why are you messing with character physics? They were fine to begin with. Stop this nonsense already dude, it's people like you (adding unnecessary changes) that will turn Brawl+ into garbage and make people wanna go back to playing vBrawl. Just because you like the "feel" of those characters doesn't mean other people who actually use these characters in tournament will like it, now stop trying to force feed us these arbitrary physics changes that aren't really even needed..

Why, aren't you just the conservative-minded dolt!

I'm just trying some things out, and see how they fly with the community and the BR. I am not force-feeding anything to anyone. Where the **** do you come from and attack me for trying things out and testing new physics changes to see if they work well to improve the game? If you must know, several BR members are already working on this as well, or are planning to work on this. Are you going to fly off the handle on them, too?

If this is the way you're going to conduct yourself, lashing out at anyone that tries to see if something can be made better just because it might rock the boat, then you'll find yourself not being taken seriously in discussions, in which case you should just stick to making videos.

Christ.

 

[shanus]

While a lot of physics are in fact good, a few do need polishing as GPDP has been exploring. Links grav settings arent right yet though, the jump speed / fall speeds just have a huge disconnect

 

[GHNeko]

For me,His Laz0rz nerf is not a good trade with his New Shine,the Shine is SO much better than 3% laz0rz

It was like that before his shine. 3% damage for the best projectile in B+ AND Brawl? Nah. it can stay at 2% with or without the shine.

 

[XSilvenX]

While a lot of physics are in fact good, a few do need polishing as GPDP has been exploring. Links grav settings arent right yet though, the jump speed / fall speeds just have a huge disconnect

Tell that to Izaw who ***** with Link in regular Brawl and not the random guy who plays link in training mode for 5 minutes and feels that something is not right..

That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[GuruKid]

Attacking someone who wants to help the project is not right. You should lay off and be open minded because the jumps in this game suck and they really need to be better. I don't see you spending your days testing things out like he is and presenting them to help further the game. Its amazing how many needed fixes are deemed "unnecessary."

It's not so much an attack as highlighting the fact that people are just focusing on the wrong things and thus lead the the B+ project astray with nonsensical, extraneous changes.

And yes, ONLY those who have exceptional experience with the characters should really try make suggestions or alter anything regarding said characters. Hate to say it, but that's what will make this project more productive.

 

[kupo15]

How in high heaven do the jumps in this game suck? Woow this makes me think you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. You can't be serious.... It's the way it's supposed to be, some characters have good jumps...some characters have bad jumps. That's just how it is for balance. What is your ultimatum here? For every character regardless of how good/bad they are to have amazing jumps? The physics changes are so dam useless I feel sorry for the guy because he actually spends his time testing this stuff out.

Um, unless you really vary the strength of ugrav, the jumps are going to stay relative to each other except more powerful. Seeing that you believe the jumps in this game are excellent makes me think you have no idea what your talking about. Just about everything about this game is made to be anti competitive especially the physics. Jumps, jump starting (which we speed up how long it takes to leave the ground, don't know if you know that ) The vbrawl physics is worse than 64. The jumps won't be as great as melee because of how they are programmed but at the current state, I would argue that even 64 has slightly better jumps than brawl+.

If you don't believe that it will ruin the game see how players will feel when in each version the character physics are changed and the players have to adjust the way they play each time a newer version comes out. That should be fun..

This is brawl+. We are always changing the game and the game until it goes gold revolves around change. Learn to deal with change and try things out because we can always improve our codes and movement.

And for my information what "needed" changes are you referring to in your last line. Seriously how do you even know what's needed or not when you don't properly play 95% of the characters you're changing...

Simple. We research and try stuff out...then get feedback and fix our mistakes. We are not afraid to make mistakes. Its very easy to sit on the sidelines and think that ever change we make is unnecessary

Where the **** do you come from and attack me for trying things out and testing new physics changes to see if they work well to improve the game?

He does this a lot to everyone.

If you must know, several BR members are already working on this as well, or are planning to work on this. Are you going to fly off the handle on them, too?

He already did

[/QUOTE]

Tell that to Izaw who ***** with Link in regular Brawl and not the random guy who plays link in training mode for 5 minutes and feels that something is not right..

That's all I'm trying to say.

This isn't regular brawl. The game is faster and the gravity is higher. Keeping the same floaty upwards jumps and a faster down speed is inconsistent and sloppy.

 

[XSilvenX]

Why, aren't you just the conservative-minded dolt!

I'm just trying some things out, and see how they fly with the community and the BR. I am not force-feeding anything to anyone. Where the **** do you come from and attack me for trying things out and testing new physics changes to see if they work well to improve the game? If you must know, several BR members are already working on this as well, or are planning to work on this. Are you going to fly off the handle on them, too?

If this is the way you're going to conduct yourself, lashing out at anyone that tries to see if something can be made better just because it might rock the boat, then you'll find yourself not being taken seriously in discussions, in which case you should just stick to making videos.

Christ.

My thing is, how do you know what is right and/or wrong in terms of gravity for these characters. I play Ike myself and I can tell you right now he is perfect the way he is.. no change needed, yet I see that you wanna try messing with his physics which will probably off my game majorly..it just sort of irks me believe it or not. It's something I don't think is necessary. It's the type of thing that won't hurt Ike nor help him..it's just not needed and unwarranted. If you're gonna randomly change physics then AT LEAST..AT THE VERY LEAST provide a thorough explanation as to why the change is necessary. Give us examples of moves and combos that it might help with for the character...I mean, the way you're doing it is like "hey guys I changed a bunch of numbers and I played with the character and I liked it, here guys check it out..." To me that just isn't good enough. If you really want Brawl+ to succeed you should provide good reasoning for the changes rather than it just feeling really great to you.



-And to Kupo...your credibility has long been in the negative to me so you really shouldn't be talking about anything at this moment. A lot of the things you propose in your wacky racers version of Brawl+ is so ridiculous and random that I don't even think you're a bad player...I KNOW you're a bad player...so please, stfu and stop jumping on every chance to "pwn" me because you will always fail. ALWAYS. And I looooooove how you COMPLETELY missed my point in the last quote you have of me..if you don't see what I'm trying to say already then you truly are a lost cause.

 

[GPDP]

My thing is, how do you know what is right and/or wrong in terms of gravity for these characters. I play Ike myself and I can tell you right now he is perfect the way he is.. no change needed, yet I see that you wanna try messing with his physics which will probably off my game majorly..it just sort of irks me believe it or not. It's something I don't think is necessary. It's the type of thing that won't hurt Ike nor help him..it's just not needed and unwarranted. If you're gonna randomly change physics then AT LEAST..AT THE VERY LEAST provide a thorough explanation as to why the change is necessary. Give us examples of moves and combos that it might help with for the character...I mean, the way you're doing it is like "hey guys I changed a bunch of numbers and I played with the character and I liked it, here guys check it out..." To me that just isn't good enough. If you really want Brawl+ to succeed you should provide good reasoning for the changes rather than it just feeling really great to you.

If you had been keeping up with this topic instead of haphazardly coming in here and raging at me, you would have seen I explained a few pages back why it is exactly I am trying these changes out. I am doing this because I believe there is too wide a gulf between how fast a character rises from a jump and how fast they fall. As it is, most characters are slow to rise and fast to fall, and I believe this hurts many characters' combo and shffl games, leading to things such as overly sped-up moves and insane fast fall speeds to compensate, inadequately at that.

What I am doing is merely getting to the root of this problem by breaching that gulf, and making jumps faster on the way up, which will also make characters jumps feel much more consistent. If they're gonna fall slow, they should rise slow. If they're gonna fall fast, they should also rise fast. That is what I am trying to do.

Now, the methodology I am employing is that of preserving the overall downward gravity settings already established in the plussery set, which means I am making sure characters fall as fast as they already do. This is done in order to preserve established comboability. To do this, I basically exchange the dgrav and fgrav values, which will increase upward gravity but keep overall downward gravity the same. Sometimes, I change the values around, but I make sure the overall downgrav stays around the same multiplicative value. Then, I tweak the fast fall value so the fast fall speed will be about the same as usual. Lastly, I tweak the short hop and full jump values to compensate for increased upward gravity, which will keep jumps at the same height or just about, but with the added bonus of speeding them up. The result is characters that rise faster and at a speed comparable to how fast they fall, while still retaining the usual falling speed. This makes for faster shffls and upgraded comboing ability.

So there it is. I am not merely changing numbers around for the lulz. I felt the air game felt inconsistent and sluggish, and could be made better, and some BR members feel the same way, so I felt inclined to help them out. Is that such a crime?

 

[GHNeko]

Silven, I dont know why you're making a big fit over something as small as testing that is no where near perma. Yes yes. You play Ike. You feel like the physics are perfect, but one person's opinions shouldn't be absolute. I mean, hell, M2K said there was too much hitstun. Lolwut. Are we going to change it based on that? No.

Just because one person says something, main or not, doesnt mean its always going to be right. Bias and personal preference affect decisions, and thats why we need to test and gather data to figure out the most optimal choices.

I mean, what reason do we need other than "We're simply testing." to test out new values on something?

Calm down dude. If something is met with anything but majority positive feedback, the change generally wont stay.

 

[goodoldganon]

Figured I'd stop in here to offer my two cents on the whole issue. I both agree and disagree with what is being done here. Personally, I feel my mains (Falcon, Ganondorf, DK, Wario, Snake, Samus, and Wolf) all feel great with their gravities. But I'm sure there are other characters out there that could use some fine tuning. I really like Link's newest gravity settings and I think they compliment his playstyle very well. Overall, I'd like to go back and re-look at all the gravity settings and see if any of them need fine tuned.

On the other end of the coin I can say that using your setup for Ike (as an example) was a little frustrating and off putting at first. Is it a radical change? No, but it was enough that it took me a few matches to get used to. Point is we have already had 1 major tournament and a lot of side tournaments. In my eyes it's one thing to tweak a move but to change a way the character moves is a change to the very way I handle my character. It was annoying to readjust to the new Ike and when I did readjust it wasn't some epiphany or realization of what I was missing out on. I'm not even sure I prefer one of the setups to the other. If I had to choose one I liked the old setup cause I was used to it.

Either way, don't stop what you're doing GPDP. I'd be lying if I said every test you pumped out was a winner, but there have been some really solid tweaks I have enjoyed. It really goes both ways. If we do decide to do another pass at the gravity we'll need to do it quick before we start getting any more tournaments... One thing keeping Brawl+ down is the lack of a definable meta game. Though it is blown WAY out of proportion, people don't want to play a fighting game that is constantly changing, especially if it's changing the way we control our characters.

 

[XSilvenX]

If you had been keeping up with this topic instead of haphazardly coming in here and raging at me, you would have seen I explained a few pages back why it is exactly I am trying these changes out. I am doing this because I believe there is too wide a gulf between how fast a character rises from a jump and how fast they fall. As it is, most characters are slow to rise and fast to fall, and I believe this hurts many characters' combo and shffl games, leading to things such as overly sped-up moves and insane fast fall speeds to compensate, inadequately at that.

What I am doing is merely getting to the root of this problem by breaching that gulf, and making jumps faster on the way up, which will also make characters jumps feel much more consistent. If they're gonna fall slow, they should rise slow. If they're gonna fall fast, they should also rise fast. That is what I am trying to do.

Now, the methodology I am employing is that of preserving the overall downward gravity settings already established in the plussery set, which means I am making sure characters fall as fast as they already do. This is done in order to preserve established comboability. To do this, I basically exchange the dgrav and fgrav values, which will increase upward gravity but keep overall downward gravity the same. Sometimes, I change the values around, but I make sure the overall downgrav stays around the same multiplicative value. Then, I tweak the fast fall value so the fast fall speed will be about the same as usual. Lastly, I tweak the short hop and full jump values to compensate for increased upward gravity, which will keep jumps at the same height or just about, but with the added bonus of speeding them up. The result is characters that rise faster and at a speed comparable to how fast they fall, while still retaining the usual falling speed. This makes for faster shffls and upgraded comboing ability.

So there it is. I am not merely changing numbers around for the lulz. I felt the air game felt inconsistent and sluggish, and could be made better, and some BR members feel the same way, so I felt inclined to help them out. Is that such a crime?

Not at all, I am definitely at fault. I don't keep up with the threads for the simple fact that they often times move too fast and a lot of spam usually ends up in them but that is definitely good reason for the changes. I guess I apologize and thanks for the explanation.

Lastly the main reason I am here is to make sure Chibo uses a good set for the upcoming tournament this week and not this "test" stuff. I came here in hopes of having a good concrete version for competition by the end of the week. The test stuff should be disregarded for the remainder of the week IMO since Beyond The Limit is THIS SATURDAY. I don't feel like having to explain to people why Falco's shine doesn't knock them away like it's supposed to and why Link FF's like a brick... Ah well, in the end I guess it's up to the T.O. (in this case ChiboSempai)

 

[GPDP]

Figured I'd stop in here to offer my two cents on the whole issue. I both agree and disagree with what is being done here. Personally, I feel my mains (Falcon, Ganondorf, DK, Wario, Snake, Samus, and Wolf) all feel great with their gravities. But I'm sure there are other characters out there that could use some fine tuning. I really like Link's newest gravity settings and I think they compliment his playstyle very well. Overall, I'd like to go back and re-look at all the gravity settings and see if any of them need fine tuned.

On the other end of the coin I can say that using your setup for Ike (as an example) was a little frustrating and off putting at first. Is it a radical change? No, but it was enough that it took me a few matches to get used to. Point is we have already had 1 major tournament and a lot of side tournaments. In my eyes it's one thing to tweak a move but to change a way the character moves is a change to the very way I handle my character. It was annoying to readjust to the new Ike and when I did readjust it wasn't some epiphany or realization of what I was missing out on. I'm not even sure I prefer one of the setups to the other. If I had to choose one I liked the old setup cause I was used to it.

Either way, don't stop what you're doing GPDP. I'd be lying if I said every test you pumped out was a winner, but there have been some really solid tweaks I have enjoyed. It really goes both ways. If we do decide to do another pass at the gravity we'll need to do it quick before we start getting any more tournaments...

Thanks for the input. Sorry that my Ike settings weren't too pleasing, but again, they were very minor changes. He probably was just fine the way he was anyway.

I agree that some of my tweaks haven't been too solid. I had to spend some extra time tweaking Snake to find a good value, and even then it's **** hard to pull off the full hop nair without buffer. So maybe some values come out winners and others not so much. I consider my Marth and Falcon changes winners, but the jury's out on Mario and Lucario, for example. Nevertheless, I am happy to lend my own input to the project, and I'm glad to do so on the one subject I've been harping about well before the plussery even came into being.

Silven: No prob, man. Though I do have to say I object to the way you disrespect kupo. I don't agree with some of his proposals and ideas, but nevertheless, he has been invaluable to the project since its inception, and Brawl+ would not be as far along as it currently is were it not for his efforts and dedication. He deserves everyone's respect because of that, and he should continue to deserve it, because even if some of his ideas are controversial, they are ultimately conceived with the well-being of Brawl+ in mind, and for that, we cannot fault him.

 

[goodoldganon]

GDPD, good luck with the gravity changing, I support it all the way. And when the time comes I'm sure we'll have a nightly build dedicated to gravity changes and believe me I will be right there cracking the whip at people who aren't putting enough time into the testing. It's an uphill battle to fight and change the characters gravities, but even if we can fine tweak 5 characters, it's worth it.

 

[GPDP]

GDPD, good luck with the gravity changing, I support it all the way. And when the time comes I'm sure we'll have a nightly build dedicated to gravity changes and believe me I will be right there cracking the whip at people who aren't putting enough time into the testing. It's an uphill battle to fight and change the characters gravities, but even if we can fine tweak 5 characters, it's worth it.

Sadly, at the moment I am restricted to characters whose recoveries are not affected by upward gravity changes. I tried to tweak Sonic, but his UpB got borked immensely, so I realized there were about 14 or 15 characters I could not touch. Which sucks, because I think Sonic and a few others may benefit a lot from it.

However, Almas told me a new engine code is on the way which will allows us to tweak the gravity on moves that are affected by gravity changes, such as Sonic's UpB, so when that comes out, we'll be able to tweak gravity settings to our hearts' content.

 

[zephyrnereus]

I know this question will sound a bit off topic and n00bish, but what exactly does scar jumping do?

 

[GPDP]

I know this question will sound a bit off topic and n00bish, but what exactly does scar jumping do?

It allows you to jump off the same wall multiple times in quick succession, just like in Melee.

 

[Nybb]

Has it ever been suggested to get rid of the "do all your rapid A moves by just holding the button down" property? A lot of characters' rapid jabs are kind of annoying, and often I don't even want to do them and end up doing them by accident. It seems that either some of the jabs are too easy to rack up damage with, or I would often rather just jab > grab > combo instead of jab > jab > jabjabjab *enemy DIs out and attacks while I am still turbojabbing* I don't know if this is possible or not, but I haven't seen anybody suggest it yet so I just figured I would throw it out there.

 

[GPDP]

Has it ever been suggested to get rid of the "do all your rapid A moves by just holding the button down" property? A lot of characters' rapid jabs are kind of annoying, and often I don't even want to do them and end up doing them by accident. It seems that either some of the jabs are too easy to rack up damage with, or I would often rather just jab > grab > combo instead of jab > jab > jabjabjab *enemy DIs out and attacks while I am still turbojabbing* I don't know if this is possible or not, but I haven't seen anybody suggest it yet so I just figured I would throw it out there.

There's a code already that gets rid of the auto-jab feature. It had problems, however, such as it breaking Pika's jab entirely, so it didn't get adopted.

 

[Sterowent]

if that never does get fixed, there's always jab canceling. you know, holding down for a sec and doing whatever.

 

[cubaisdeath]

the buffer time on that is ridiculously hard for some characters (mainly sheik and fox)

 

[timothyung]

Will there be any work being done on the random factors on some characters?
GW's side-b, Peach's vegetable and DDD's side-b (especially GW's) are too random imo, maybe we should do something on them. I remember seeing a code which makes GW always use 9 for his side b. Maybe we can make him always use 6 (the fire one) or make every number usable but not too overpowered like the 9 one.
For peach she has a chance of picking up a turnip which deals 36%, which I think is too strong(that's a Falcon Punch), some treaks can be done to it.
DDD's is obvious... randomly throwing out Gordos is not good, at least imo. Maybe we can make he can choose to attack with gordos when he holds down B, but when he does it it has more winddown... I don't know if its even possible, but I GW's and Peach's can be worked on at this moment. We removed tripping and items, why not eliminate any randomness in brawl?

 

[Deleted member]

we had some serious discussion in the WBR regarding random factors, and we have had soem ideas to change it but in the end we haven't really done anything with it yet.

 

[KAN]

Was it on purpose that in the last nightly build the characters were sweetspotting the ledges again? That was annoying and shuold be fixed.
Also I had the issue that I had to wait a few seconds after each match for when we skipped the result screen quickly the game froze. (Though that could be caused by my textures.)

Someone knows about these errors?

 

[Revven]

Was it on purpose that in the last nightly build the characters were sweetspotting the ledges again? That was annoying and shuold be fixed.
Also I had the issue that I had to wait a few seconds after each match for when we skipped the result screen quickly the game froze. (Though that could be caused by my textures.)

Someone knows about these errors?

Probably just you on both of the errors, though there are some Side Bs that sweetspot but no Up Bs sweetspot unless you hit the edgeguarder with it.

 

[KAN]

Probably just you on both of the errors, though there are some Side Bs that sweetspot but no Up Bs sweetspot unless you hit the edgeguarder with it.

That's odd. Well maybe I forgot to mark just that one box...
And you think it's the textures? So there weren't any problems with the result screen at your games? Ok. Than I will remove all textures that aren't too great anyway.
Thanks.

 

[The Night Cat]

Kupo you ******* stop teasing us with all these juicy future changes and not release a 'nightly' build for 3 days or more. I tried to go back to plussery and even the nightly doesn't have the same zazz your set does. I can only suggest one thing from plussery that we might need to jigger in your set. Falcon's sh height could use a slight fiddling so you can nair bouncing enemy's and hit short characters better.

 

[Yingyay]

Will there be any work being done on the random factors on some characters?
GW's side-b, Peach's vegetable and DDD's side-b (especially GW's) are too random imo, maybe we should do something on them. I remember seeing a code which makes GW always use 9 for his side b. Maybe we can make him always use 6 (the fire one) or make every number usable but not too overpowered like the 9 one.
For peach she has a chance of picking up a turnip which deals 36%, which I think is too strong(that's a Falcon Punch), some treaks can be done to it.
DDD's is obvious... randomly throwing out Gordos is not good, at least imo. Maybe we can make he can choose to attack with gordos when he holds down B, but when he does it it has more winddown... I don't know if its even possible, but I GW's and Peach's can be worked on at this moment. We removed tripping and items, why not eliminate any randomness in brawl?

I think the random factor with these moves are fine, it gives you a reason to NOT spam then, Imagine if G&W pulled out a 9 3 times and hit you all three times? that'd be a mess

-Sonic's Dsmash is still too spamable. sure he has no priority, but its too safe for a smash attack. And now that it has increased knockback from previous B+ sets its a little too good.

 

[JCaesar]

I think significant changes and gravity testing should be held off until after Beyond the Limit. I think it would be best for everyone if the set used at BtL was minimally changed from the 5-8 release (the one used at Apex).

After that, I'm all for testing gravity changes.

Has it ever been suggested to get rid of the "do all your rapid A moves by just holding the button down" property? A lot of characters' rapid jabs are kind of annoying, and often I don't even want to do them and end up doing them by accident. It seems that either some of the jabs are too easy to rack up damage with, or I would often rather just jab > grab > combo instead of jab > jab > jabjabjab *enemy DIs out and attacks while I am still turbojabbing* I don't know if this is possible or not, but I haven't seen anybody suggest it yet so I just figured I would throw it out there.

I made a suggestion to change the handicap so 0-100 is the normal custom buffer with auto-jab, but 200-300 is the custom buffer repeated but with auto-jab off, so it would basically be an option. I reeeeally hate auto-jab...

 

[shanus]

I didn't plan on doing any gravity changes (aside from Link) until after the next official release (hopefully next week).

Thats the main plan, we will release one more nightly today which will be the set for BtL and has almost every single hitbox change we want. Then we want to try and find a way to remove the ICs infinites, release an official set, then fine tune some physics and last little bits of stuff.

 

[Yingyay]

ugh I just finishes playing an Ivysaur with the new nightly.....theres no point in edgehoging Ivy anymore is there?
1) grabed edge ivy missed the first vine
2) second vine also missed so im like ok we're in the clear so I let go
3) third vine comes and grabs the edge from the bottom of Battlefield.

in conclusion, dont edgehog Ivy. smh
There are reasons why certain tether characters can only use it once you know. Its like getting punished for winning in a way But thats just me.
Also why does Ivy's whip have electric properties? Was it always like that?

 

[Fireblaster]

There's just one thing that bothers me. Why the hell did you guys make it so Ness can do UpB multiple times? It is completely unnecessary and I hope it is one of the changes that gets removed.