Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[leafgreen386]

5-11 Impressions

Falco's new shine is interesting and definitely has potential. As it is, it seems like it needs to be very specifically spaced to be combo-viable, but it's still a good change.

New Pork City is fully playable. The Waiting Room has not been swapped (I personally enjoy NPC, but for tournament play, I realize it's pointless). Pirate Ship is also not frozen.

DDD is still throwing minions with jab. :/

Mario, Link, and Peach changes all seem to be working properly.

Wolf's UpB doesn't seem to be allowing DI any earlier than normal.

Edit: In a really weird note, I'm running Brawls against one CPU to try these fixes out, with items on high and only food set, and with this new code set, suddenly Smash Dollars are spawning. The ones that are worth ten each in Coin Battle. o_O Wha...?

That's because dollars are the sandbag replacement. lol

The DDD thing is odd. I'm not sure why it would suddenly stop working, unless the wrong version of the code got put into the set.

 

[GPDP]

Any specific reason for the Link gravity change?

I noticed he doesn't have any extra dgrav anymore. Also, why is his fullhop increased the same amount as the fullgrav? Weren't we increasing them at a 2:1 ratio, otherwise their jump height suffers? Or were we wrong?

 

[GHNeko]

New Pork City is fully playable. The Waiting Room has not been swapped (I personally enjoy NPC, but for tournament play, I realize it's pointless). Pirate Ship is also not frozen.

Its only like that in training. You have to go to versus mode to get Wifi Room.

 

[Dan_X]

I'm really excited about many of the changes. For one, though I don't main Dedede, that must be great to not have to worry about picking up Minions! Secondly, I'm really stoked for the new level! Omg the wifi wait level! That's so awesome! I'm also going to have to deal with the Peach changes soon, as my friend mains her, so I'm interested in seeing how those changes worked. In addition, I'm obviously quite happy with Falco's shine change, it's perfect!

 

[shanus]

The following was brought to my attention:

If you use Pokemon trainer (the trainer, not the Indy's on the CSS). If you run and die and autoswitch, there is no problem. But if you force a switch once in a match, the pokemon lose all of their frame speed and hitbox adjustments and action modifications. This is not good. Some reports it happens just on death as well, but I haven't been able to replicate that.

This bug also happens with Sheik/Zelda transforms.


Also, Dashdancing as ICs seems to cause WAY more desyncs.


Also, the following code segment does not work to fix D3 minions, Wolf upB lag, or IC infinites.


This will all be fixed in future nightly builds, we know what code is solving it.

--------------------------------------


Also, ONLINE WAITING ROOM is only playable in versus mode and not online or training mode.

 

[leafgreen386]

Any specific reason for the Link gravity change?

I noticed he doesn't have any extra dgrav anymore. Also, why is his fullhop increased the same amount as the fullgrav? Weren't we increasing them at a 2:1 ratio, otherwise their jump height suffers? Or were we wrong?

Link physics changes were made to accomplish a few things:
1) Faster sh. His sh was incredibly slow before on the way up, but after he reached the apex, he fell like a rock. The fgrav helps to speed up his jump while the sh raise keeps it about the same height.
2) Higher fj/dj. One of the things link mains wanted was a higher dj. Since the only way to do that is by also increasing fj, the fj buff was unavoidable.
3) Make him get wrecked slightly less by combos. This is a side effect of him not needing as much dgrav to be decently fast anymore. He had 1.15 dgrav before, which I reverted to 1.0 dgrav and instead gave him 1.125 fgrav. His ff was also decreased from 1.2 to 1.15, as he no longer needs to compensate for such a slow jump with such an insanely faster fall anymore.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Pirate Ship is also not frozen.

Pirate Ship was never frozen; it's reversed. The catapult "seems" like it functions, but it doesn't, and you can even walk right through it.

Oh, after playing a bunch of rounds on the waiting room stage...it's too big! Especially when there's a fast spammer like Falco versus some slow character, then you can camp the whole time (and even if the character isn't slow, as long as they don't have a reflector of some type, it's still pretty annoying). Sakurai was right (for once) to make stage size smaller overall to accommodate for slower characters (although some stages are WAY too small). Too bad most of Sakurai's other ideas weren't so good... XD
But it was quite nostalgic to have enough space to combo with 5 SHFF'ed n-airs with Fox across the waiting room stage.

And that Pokémon Trainer problem is quite troublesome, indeed. I rarely play with PT over the Indy's, so I haven't encountered that problem before. *goes to try it out*

 

[Yingyay]

So is there a way to play New Por City in versus mode? Like holding L or R er sumthin? I mean sure its never gonna be legal but I kinda miss it now lol
You'll never miss things until they're gone huh?

 

[HeroPenguin]

@ Perfect Chaos: I guess I need to check my terminology then. I thought reversed and frozen were interchangeable. One way or another, I was still getting pelted by cannonballs, so I figured that was a Bad Thing. Then again, this might be a Training vs Group issue again. I'll check it out.

@ Yingyay: Take out that segment of code. XP It's what I'll probably do eventually, because I'm not really a tournament player, and my friends and I like chaos and pinball matches. :D

 

[GPDP]

Link physics changes were made to accomplish a few things:
1) Faster sh. His sh was incredibly slow before on the way up, but after he reached the apex, he fell like a rock. The fgrav helps to speed up his jump while the sh raise keeps it about the same height.
2) Higher fj/dj. One of the things link mains wanted was a higher dj. Since the only way to do that is by also increasing fj, the fj buff was unavoidable.
3) Make him get wrecked slightly less by combos. This is a side effect of him not needing as much dgrav to be decently fast anymore. He had 1.15 dgrav before, which I reverted to 1.0 dgrav and instead gave him 1.125 fgrav. His ff was also decreased from 1.2 to 1.15, as he no longer needs to compensate for such a slow jump with such an insanely faster fall anymore.

Sounds good. I think Link could be the example to be set for the rest of the cast regarding gravity changes. Because IMO, I have the same complaints about several characters, such as Marth. He's slow on the way up, but falls relatively fast. It's jarring, especially after spending some time with Melee, wherein his shffls are fast and furious. Not that I'm necessarily saying we should replicate Melee Marth's gravity settings, but Brawl+ Marth doesn't feel good just yet. Better, but only halfway there.

Really, I don't even know why we still put so much emphasis on dgrav and short hops, when better results could probably come through mere fgrav and fjump tweaks.

To that end, I might consider testing out a few things myself...

 

[leafgreen386]

GPDP: If you plan on testing out some physics, lemme know how it turns out. I'm probably gonna go through some more chars later and adjust their physics. Link's was just a priority since link mains had been talking about a higher dj, and I figured I'd try messing with his fgrav settings while I was at it.

Also, even though it's not mentioned in any of the changelogs, shanus reverted fox's physics settings. Still need to tweak them, I guess, before they'll be good >_>

Pirate Ship was never frozen; it's reversed. The catapult "seems" like it functions, but it doesn't, and you can even walk right through it.

Oh, after playing a bunch of rounds on the waiting room stage...it's too big! Especially when there's a fast spammer like Falco versus some slow character, then you can camp the whole time (and even if the character isn't slow, as long as they don't have a reflector of some type, it's still pretty annoying). Sakurai was right (for once) to make stage size smaller overall to accommodate for slower characters (although some stages are WAY too small). Too bad most of Sakurai's other ideas weren't so good... XD
But it was quite nostalgic to have enough space to combo with 5 SHFF'ed n-airs with Fox across the waiting room stage.

And that Pokémon Trainer problem is quite troublesome, indeed. I rarely play with PT over the Indy's, so I haven't encountered that problem before. *goes to try it out*

What do you mean it's nostalgic to combo with five nairs with fox? Fox could only ever do three in melee across fd (which he can also do now), so unless you mean 64, that was never possible.

As for pirate ship, I'd really like to try to find an alternate solution to fixing this stage rather than flat out freezing it (and yes, freezing and reversing are the same thing, really).

 

[GPDP]

Ah, I know why we mess so much with dgrav and short hops. Because that's all we had to mess with prior to the plussery, so we got used to working with them.

Well, I'm going to see if I can do better. I'll be testing out a few gravity changes with Marth, and see if I can sorta approximate his Melee gravity, or something close to it.

 

[HeroPenguin]

As for pirate ship, I'd really like to try to find an alternate solution to fixing this stage rather than flat out freezing it (and yes, freezing and reversing are the same thing, really).

Has there been any progress on identifying stage hazard IDs to apply current hitbox modifiers to them? It seems like that would be the best bet for removing the threat of Stupid Bombs delivering cheap KOs. I have no suggestions for removing lowered gravity on the tornado fall section beyond freezing it, though. :/

The pirate ship is neat, but it seems that all the stage hazards are a problem one way or another. Is there really any reason why freezing it isn't a good idea for tournament play?

 

[leafgreen386]

Ah, I know why we mess so much with dgrav and short hops. Because that's all we had to mess with prior to the plussery, so we got used to working with them.

Well, I'm going to see if I can do better. I'll be testing out a few gravity changes with Marth, and see if I can sorta approximate his Melee gravity, or something close to it.

Kupo's already done the legwork. It's somewhere around 1.51 grav or so for marth, iirc, which is much much higher than we'll be taking chars in brawl+. You should start off by swapping his dgrav and fgrav values, and then tweaking his jumps to compensate, and see how it goes from there.

Has there been any progress on identifying stage hazard IDs to apply current hitbox modifiers to them? It seems like that would be the best bet for removing the threat of Stupid Bombs delivering cheap KOs. I have no suggestions for removing lowered gravity on the tornado fall section beyond freezing it, though. :/

The pirate ship is neat, but it seems that all the stage hazards are a problem one way or another. Is there really any reason why freezing it isn't a good idea for tournament play?

Unfortunately, no one has looked into the stage hazards yet. I'm gonna bug giza about checking that, though.

As for pirate ship, it's a unique stage that has many non-broken parts that get lost because of freezing it. If we could simply reduce the kb on the catapult and reduce the damage on the bombs (which will also make them kill way later) the stage would be vastly improved. Perhaps some stuff to fix up the water (which still exists as a potential problem when the stage is frozen, may I add) and it'll be set. We can actually negate the floaty grav of the cyclone by using paprika's universal grav codes set to 1, which are multiplicative with almas's grav codes and therefore will not have any effect.

 

[kupo15]

Kupo's already done the legwork. It's somewhere around 1.51 grav or so for marth, iirc, which is much much higher than we'll be taking chars in brawl+. You should start off by swapping his dgrav and fgrav values, and then tweaking his jumps to compensate, and see how it goes from there.


Unfortunately, no one has looked into the stage hazards yet. I'm gonna bug giza about checking that, though.

As for pirate ship, it's a unique stage that has many non-broken parts that get lost because of freezing it. If we could simply reduce the kb on the catapult and reduce the damage on the bombs (which will also make them kill way later) the stage would be vastly improved. Perhaps some stuff to fix up the water (which still exists as a potential problem when the stage is frozen, may I add) and it'll be set. We can actually negate the floaty grav of the cyclone by using paprika's universal grav codes set to 1, which are multiplicative with almas's grav codes and therefore will not have any effect.

That is probably higher than I am willing to go. GPDP, does my marth feel "melee"like?

 

[Yingyay]

So why not just leave the stage alone until ID's are found? It'll solve the water problem for sure.
Would reversing the stage take away the whole traveling to the sky and the landing on shore thing too?

 

[GHNeko]

I believe so yea.

 

[kupo15]

So why not just leave the stage alone until ID's are found? It'll solve the water problem for sure.

We can also remove the water all together :bigthumbu

Although, I can't figure out how to get the code to work

 

[GPDP]

Alright, just did my first test. Here is what I changed his values into:

sh: 1.05
fh: 1.1
ff: 1.175 (probably too high)
dg: 1
fg: 1.2

Other than the fast fall, he feels... well, quite close to Melee, actually. His jumps are nice and fast, and if I calculated it correctly, he actually falls just a tad slower than the current plussery set has him at. His shffls are great. He doesn't take forever to fast fall the nair. In fact, I can do it almost as fast as I could in Melee. His double fair is still there, but you pretty much need a hefty buffer to do it consistently. This could be left like this, or his sh height could stand to go up to 1.075 or so. I dunno.

Overall, for a first test, I like. I suggest you guys give it a try. Here's the code: 1168B4C0

 

[shanus]

Can he SH double fair, can he SH fair uair?

 

[GPDP]

Can he SH double fair, can he SH fair uair?

Yes on both counts, but the window is extremely tight, and I'm pretty sure altogether impossible on 0 buffer. I can barely pull it off with 5 buffer.

So again, either we can leave it as is for TEH TECH SKILLZ, or we can slightly increase sh height to make it more manageable. Or decrease fullgrav a bit, but IMO it's good where it is. So Of the three options, I'd say the second would be best.

Edit: Actually, double fair and fair uair isn't that hard at 5 buffer. Not any harder than thunderstorming, in any case. I'm just pretty sure that it needs to be done instantly, so 0 buffer users like myself would be screwed. Well, of course, I could always use extra buffer just for Marth, but eh...

Also, I stand by what I said with the ff speed. It's way too high. It should be something like 1.05 instead lol.

 

[Yingyay]

We can also remove the water all together :bigthumbu

Although, I can't figure out how to get the code to work

That would take away the whole "im fighting on a ship" feeling.
Kinda be fighting on a airship then lol

 

[kupo15]

That would take away the whole "im fighting on a ship" feeling.
Kinda be fighting on a airship then lol

Texture hack it to be Mario bros 3 and it would be really wicked

 

[leafgreen386]

Yingyay: Yes, freezing or reversing a stage will remove any of its transformations.

Kupo: I'd rather keep the water and just change it than remove it altogether. Besides the fact that it makes the stage look fricking awkward without the water there, it was a nice unique feature of the stage.

GPDP: Like I said before, you should start off by swapping the fgrav and dgrav values, which if you kept all the other values you have there right now would result in a slightly higher sh and fj (again, from your current change), which would make the timing on shdf slightly less strict, although would make his jump slightly floatier on the way up. In decreasing marth's dgrav, you make him harder to combo, which coming from a char that is already probably one of the best in the game, that might not be such a good idea.

So give 1.05 sh/1.1 fj/1.15 ff/1.05 dgrav/1.175 fgrav a shot - 1168A6B0

edit: or even try dropping the ff lower than that lol

 

[GPDP]

Well, with my current setting, marth falls just a teensy bit slower than before. Honestly, it's almost negligible. I'll give your values a try, though. Should be better than what I just tried right now (sh at 1.075 and ff at 1.05; it did nothing to alleviate not being able to do double fair without buffer, and in fact made his shffl slower to execute).

 

[kupo15]

Kupo: I'd rather keep the water and just change it than remove it altogether. Besides the fact that it makes the stage look fricking awkward without the water there, it was a nice unique feature of the stage.

I would like to see it on my tv. If you could get it to work, can you tell me how so I can try it? Personally, the uniqueness of swimming isn't a good thing for me. I think it just interrupts the flow of the game while you have your little splash fight. But that's just me......

:\

 

[GPDP]

Ok, I gave your settings a try, leaf, though I dropped ff to 1.075 instead.

Anyway, I dunno. It is possible to perform double fair without buffer, but it's one hell of a strict window. It's almost not worth it. Might as well turn on buffer for marth. On top of that, his shffls, while better than they currently are, don't feel quite as good as they did with my initial setting. Maybe what I could do is go back to the code I initially gave, and increase dgrav just a tad (though again, the way I had it, his overall dgrav was just barely lower than the plussery's), along with having sh and ff at 1.05. I'll give that a shot now.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

What do you mean it's nostalgic to combo with five nairs with fox? Fox could only ever do three in melee across fd (which he can also do now), so unless you mean 64, that was never possible.

Well, I actually only did four on-stage, and one off-stage, so I decided to count all of them. And I could have sworn you can do four in Melee on FD given the right situation. But whatever.

...(and yes, freezing and reversing are the same thing, really).

Well, in a lot of stage's cases, including Pirate Ship, they do pretty much the same thing (barring visual effects), but the two terms are not truely universally interchangeable and shouldn't be used as such. Take Port Town Aero Dive, for example. A frozen Port Town is simply a floating platform in the middle of space, while a reversed Port Town has the platform barely above the track for the whole match (not counting the first 4 seconds of the match). Then there are cases like Big Blue and Castle Seige where it's virtually impossible to play on reversed but possible when frozen (frozen Seige is actually pretty nice, since I hate the second transformation). Then there are weird stuff like reversed Delfino Plaza where there are "invisible terrain" from time to time.
But my point is that you shouldn't go around telling people that they are the same thing, just that they do similar things the majority of the time.

...Perhaps some stuff to fix up the water (which still exists as a potential problem when the stage is frozen, may I add) and it'll be set...

I find kupo's No Water Lag code (which eliminates the surfacing lag) to be every helpful in preventing spike locks. But I kind of like kupo's idea on how water should be: if at all possible in the future, making water like Melee's water, except with lowered gravity (and possibly slightly slowed down movement), would be pretty interesting.

...does my marth feel "melee"like?

Out of all of the character, I personally think Marth is in the top-three of feeling the most Melee-like in kupo's set. (But he's still a tad bit floatier, of course.)

 

[GPDP]

Alright, I tweaked my original code to add extra dgrav. I set dgrav to 1.025, which means total dgrav should be just shy of exactly where it is in the plussery set. If the difference was small before, it should be microscopic now. Marth should get comboed as easily as before.

I also dropped ff to 1.05, and, to be honest, I think it could stand to be just a tad higher. But that's just me. Of course, he can only do double fair if you have buffer enabled, but honestly, he feels so much better this way. I don't think it'd be worth it to make him floatier just so his double fair can be noobcake easy. Even with the modest adjustments leaf made just to have it doable without buffer (and with an extremely tight window even then), already his shffls felt more sluggish. The way I have him now, however, you can have it all: the double fairs, the fast shffls, the lack of floatiness, the comboability... all you gotta sacrifice is a little control through buffer. I'd say that's a fair trade.

Edit: Oh god, you have got to try my Falcon mod.

sh: 0.95
fh: 1.1
ff: 1.05 (just a teenzy bit slower ff overall)
dg: 1.1
fg: 1.2

He falls just as fast as before, but his jumps are... well, here: 093868C0

And here's Mario: 003865C0

Guess I'll stop for tonight. I wanna wait for feedback on these modifications before I proceed further.

 

[JCaesar]

^^^ This guy is a ****ing ****.

Just fyi, that IC's infinite comment had nothing to do with you (congrats on beating m2k btw, seriously ). I think IC's infinites should be legal in Brawl. MK, DDD's infinites, grab releases, jab locks, camping, planking, they should all be legal and encouraged in Brawl.

They have no place in Brawl+ though.

 

[shanus]

So paprika made fixed up the code causing those bugs, will have a public set online later today for you all

 

[ToxiCrow]

Wait... why was the wolf shin buff removed? D:

i guess this got overlooked.

Why was Wolf's shine buff removed??

 

[Kuga]

Tell me,his shine is bad now?
Need some change?

 

[ToxiCrow]

i'm not saying its bad now
when u hit with it, the knockback would send you up. now it doesnt anymore. i'm jw why it was taken out

 

[GHNeko]

i'm not saying its bad now
when u hit with it, the knockback would send you up. now it doesnt anymore. i'm jw why it was taken out

It was too good.

And they couldnt make the KB scale with percent.

 

[Kuga]

Maybe because its was already good,and dont need to be better

 

[Roxas215]

Just fyi, that IC's infinite comment had nothing to do with you (congrats on beating m2k btw, seriously ). I think IC's infinites should be legal in Brawl. MK, DDD's infinites, grab releases, jab locks, camping, planking, they should all be legal and encouraged in Brawl.

They have no place in Brawl+ though.

DDD infinite(the one where he dont have to move) And planking should deftinely not be allowed or even encouraged in brawl. Everything else is cool as it requires setups.(Also the whole mk being banned arugment has been shut down once and for all after apex)

But this is about brawl+ though. So back on topic. I got a friend of mine who made a usb compatible version of gecko os. Although he is using the old open source version so it still has the 256 line limit. I wanted to know. If i delete the codes for textures will brawl+ be under the 256 limit? Or will it still be over?

 

[Shadic]

Me and my friend just had the most EPIC DK Vs. DDD match. It was online and laggy, but it's a lot more fun than the match would have been in VBrawl.

We were both at around 130%, and I got killed by the **** crane on the Halberd. He should get it online soon.

Also, the fact that handicap defaults to 0% after every match online sucks. :|

 

[Deleted member]

hell no, now where at, lamme guess 600? and the texture codes is perhaps 50 but probably less.

he should use the snapshot method, works fine and is compatible with the latest set (double gct however is not)

 

[goodoldganon]

Last I checked we were at almost 1000 lines...