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[Wingflier]

Actually his fsmash is going to be near worthless soon enough if we don't fix it. It's currently possible to tech it and punish wolf for using the move, so once people start learning the timing for that, well... good bye fsmash. I need to check to make sure, but I think the opponent has frame advantage, which, to say the least, is kinda stupid.

If this is true, whatever you do, please don't fix it by making his Fsmash come out even faster. It's already the longest reaching side smash in the game (unless I'm mistaken), and can be done in rapid succession. Since he can move with it, it is not uncommon to be hit 2 or 3 times, even while trying to DI.

Obviously, if you can tech out of it that's a whole different story, but please just don't make it faster.

Also, at higher percentages (say anything past 40%), I highly doubt you will be able to tech out of it. It has a pretty powerful knockback, especially considering its range.

@cubaisdeath: How did you make your sig? Can you please help me with that I've been trying to get someone's help for awhile now.

Wing

 

[Mattnumbers]

if it happens it happens. there isn't even a tier list, so shut up

Seriously? Your getting angry at me for making a joke? I see no reason to target me on this and tell me to shut up, unless you're trolling.

And it SHOULDN'T happen, because it doesn't have to. If wolf was already really good and nerfing him would ruin his playstyle, then sure, I would be fine with 3 spacies being high tier (You know as well as I do that Fox will be high tier if he isn't changed, and Falco is also very good and quite possibly high tier). Wolf is a perfectly fine, average character, and there is NO REASON to buff him past maybe a couple tweaks to expand his metagame.

 

[Cytrs]

how do people do that to sigs?

 

[KayJay]

Samus bombs needs to be buffed, they are clearly useless in serious matches, as a edge mindgame tool its almost not worth it, as an approach or defense tool, its completely worthless.
Don't know about her Fsmash, but I can say I never use that move cause somehow in every situation there is a better option (Dtilt for example).
Falco could use more knockback on his moves so he doesn't combo so easily anymore.

 

[rinoH]

Samus bombs needs to be buffed, they are clearly useless in serious matches, as a edge mindgame tool its almost not worth it, as an approach or defense tool, its completely worthless.

samus's bombs do not need to be buffed seriously they are really good i dont know what your talking about
*Edit my bad i was thinking of missiles srry for flaming you

 

[Revven]

Samus bombs needs to be buffed, they are clearly useless in serious matches, as a edge mindgame tool its almost not worth it, as an approach or defense tool, its completely worthless.

Already known, gonna do **** to them when we are capable.

Don't know about her Fsmash, but I can say I never use that move cause somehow in every situation there is a better option (Dtilt for example).

Fsmash was buffed a long *** time ago. Start using it more.

Falco could use more knockback on his moves so he doesn't combo so easily anymore.

No, Falco is perfect the way he is, learn the match-up and the character instead of saying he needs to be nerfed because he is not one of the better characters in this game.

 

[CloneHat]

Samus bombs were never good. They are a recovery. Fsmash has OK range and is a horizontal kill move for stages with higher ceilings.

If Wolf's fsmash can be teched, it can be a move only safe for high percents, but if you can still tech it, we better change the angle.

 

[cubaisdeath]

If Wolf's fsmash can be teched, it can be a move only safe for high percents, but if you can still tech it, we better change the angle.

I keep seeing people talk about this, so I might as well clarify. you can only tech it if the wolf mis spaces the attack. there are 3 things that can happen from a poorly spaced fsmash. 1. you get swept, and you can roll either direction or stand up in place. 2. you get sent in an angle (normally towards the floor because the move was designed to 'sweep' you) and you are able to tech it. last but not least, 3. you don't get hit.


its a fine move if you space it properly, no one will tech it if they get hit by the "correct" parts of the move.

also, samus bombs can't be fixed right now, everyone knows its an issue, stfu and someone will figure it out eventually (if its even possible)

 

[Wingflier]

also, samus bombs can't be fixed right now, everyone knows its an issue, stfu and someone will figure it out eventually (if its even possible)

Lol cuba I love your responses <3

But seriously, help me get an awesome sig like that. How did you do it?

We're all DIEING to know.

Wing

 

[leafgreen386]

I keep seeing people talk about this, so I might as well clarify. you can only tech it if the wolf mis spaces the attack. there are 3 things that can happen from a poorly spaced fsmash. 1. you get swept, and you can roll either direction or stand up in place. 2. you get sent in an angle (normally towards the floor because the move was designed to 'sweep' you) and you are able to tech it. last but not least, 3. you don't get hit.


its a fine move if you space it properly, no one will tech it if they get hit by the "correct" parts of the move.

I'm pretty sure that with SDI, hitting with the first hit at all becomes "mis-spacing" it, though. I still need to look more into it, but that's what it seemed like.

 

[cubaisdeath]

Seriously? Your getting angry at me for making a joke? I see no reason to target me on this and tell me to shut up, unless you're trolling.

And it SHOULDN'T happen, because it doesn't have to. If wolf was already really good and nerfing him would ruin his playstyle, then sure, I would be fine with 3 spacies being high tier (You know as well as I do that Fox will be high tier if he isn't changed, and Falco is also very good and quite possibly high tier). Wolf is a perfectly fine, average character, and there is NO REASON to buff him past maybe a couple tweaks to expand his metagame.

wow I missed this.

falco is probably one of the best characters in the game, fox is not far behind, and wolf is also not far behind. they are all top notch characters, the only one that MAYBE deserves a nerf is fox....but even then you can't take much away from him. their movesets just happen to make them good, its not a matter of tweaking them.


fox, wolf, and falco have an amazing moveset, that why they are good. but you are saying that they all shouldn't be high tier because...they don't have to be? LOL!!!

if they are good, they are good. look at MK, he has had several nerfs, including almost taking away his best approach option, and nerfing his spacing aerial, and he is still one of the best characters in the game.



EDIT:

I'm pretty sure that with SDI, hitting with the first hit at all becomes "mis-spacing" it, though. I still need to look more into it, but that's what it seemed like.

its actually rather difficult to SDI that first hit in B+, but I see what you are getting at, it IS possible to do.

and wing, just copy the image url (http://s4.tinypic.com/ji27m1.jpg ) and put it in your sig. if you want to make your own gif images though, I can't really help you there =/

 

[Mattnumbers]

wow I missed this.

falco is probably one of the best characters in the game, fox is not far behind, and wolf is also not far behind. they are all top notch characters, the only one that MAYBE deserves a nerf is fox....but even then you can't take much away from him. their movesets just happen to make them good, its not a matter of tweaking them.

Except wolf is not that great, he is upper middle at best currently. Besides that you pretty much agree with my post I guess?

fox, wolf, and falco have an amazing moveset, that why they are good. but you are saying that they all shouldn't be high tier because...they don't have to be? LOL!!!

Did you REALLY read my post and STILL get that from it? Because I pretty much said the opposite of that, I said that if they DID all have amazing movesets, I would be fine with them all being high tier. Wolf IS NOT an awesomely good character like Fox and to a lesser extent Falco

if they are good, they are good. look at MK, he has had several nerfs, including almost taking away his best approach option, and nerfing his spacing aerial, and he is still one of the best characters in the game.

In my opinion they still need some basic damage reduction and other slight nerfs, and I think there are people in the WBR that agree with me in that MK DOES still need some nerfs. Him being high tier IS FINE THOUGH. As long as he isn't overpowered.


The point of my post is to point out that there is no need to buff Wolf and make him High Tier. I could care less if three spacies were actually top tier if it wasn't do to unneeded buffs, my earlier post was a joke.

 

[cubaisdeath]

lol, wolf is very good, and ranks with the other space animals. you just don't know what he is capable of yet.


anyways, sorry for the attack, but sarcasm is hard to read online, so if you're gonna joke, make it painfully obvious.

 

[Mattnumbers]

It's ok, apology accepted, I misread e-sarcasm too sometimes.

Anyways, Zelda's new Fsmash looks cooler when you land now, and works like it's supposed to more often, good work on that move guys.

 

[Cytrs]

yoshi's down-b should have slightly less landing lag.

edit: increase bair's priority.

the two things are to make yoshi more accessible for wannabe yoshi mains.

 

[empty]

posted this in plussary also but i feel like this is a simple and needed addition.

"Hi just got Brawl+ and although I'm digging the changes I'd like to request 1 thing:

1) - Can you somehow make the R and L button on a gamecube controller respond as soon as pressure is put on it? In melee the light shield would show when some pressure was on the trigger then a strong shield when the button is fully down. In brawl, the button does nothing until it is all the way down. It has totally destroyed my timing.
I've tried mapping shield to X or Y but I just can't get used to it...

Plz help I can't be the only one who hates the shield button in brawl."

 

[GHNeko]

posted this in plussary also but i feel like this is a simple and needed addition.

"Hi just got Brawl+ and although I'm digging the changes I'd like to request 1 thing:

1) - Can you somehow make the R and L button on a gamecube controller respond as soon as pressure is put on it? In melee the light shield would show when some pressure was on the trigger then a strong shield when the button is fully down. In brawl, the button does nothing until it is all the way down. It has totally destroyed my timing.
I've tried mapping shield to X or Y but I just can't get used to it...

Plz help I can't be the only one who hates the shield button in brawl."

Impossible. Brawl doesnt have any form of trigger sensitivity support.

Blame the chuk and remote set ups.

 

[timothyung]

Use Z. If you used to use Z to grab, use R instead or lrn2shieldgrab.
I have no problem using R/L though. I turn tap jump off, and I use L to usmash out of shield. It's not that hard to use R/L if you are used to it.
But I doubt that if a code to detect the trigger sensitivity cannot be made. The hackers always do things which seems to be impossible.

 

[GHNeko]

No. It cant. Brawl has absolutely NO form of pressure sensitivity for shoulder triggers. :V

All button presses are digital.

That is one thing I know is impossible.

 

[empty]

so very sad thanks for the brutal truth.
keep up the good work guys. i haven't even tried the new zelda changes but I was about to suggest the same stuff, when I found its already happened.
cheers

 

[Mystic101]

on 4.2 it is completly unecisary to make zelda f-air sweetspot 2x bigger it is alread a devastatingly powerfull and easy to hit sweetspot..... evyone i know thinks this even the zelda player. Her sweetspots are great , her best asset they seem to kill sooner then the knee even she was already a great char in vbrawl , the only bad this was how she could be gimped but that has been fixed to a fair degree soo why fix something that isnt brioke a bigger f-air is just dumb and OP

 

[Mystic101]

Seriously? Your getting angry at me for making a joke? I see no reason to target me on this and tell me to shut up, unless you're trolling.

And it SHOULDN'T happen, because it doesn't have to. If wolf was already really good and nerfing him would ruin his playstyle, then sure, I would be fine with 3 spacies being high tier (You know as well as I do that Fox will be high tier if he isn't changed, and Falco is also very good and quite possibly high tier). Wolf is a perfectly fine, average character, and there is NO REASON to buff him past maybe a couple tweaks to expand his metagame.

agree completley

 

[Mystic101]

samus's bombs do not need to be buffed seriously they are really good i dont know what your talking about
*Edit my bad i was thinking of missiles srry for flaming you

at the moment samus is great she has very few weaknesses shes heavy can kill has great spam and like the best spike in the game she needs not to be changed and her bombs hav their uses such as stallign if you are revoveing from avove someone and some devencive options i would agree to this but only if there si some sort of change to her spike, it is brutal in doubles

 

[Mystic101]

He seems extremely good to me too. Because he was one of the few characters that actually had enough hitstun to do combos in vBrawl, this has translated in him being able to do combos much easier than most characters (from my experience) in this game.

All 3 of his smashes are extremely good, as opposed to most characters who only have 1 or 2 great smashes and then a weaker one.

He can juggle really well, he has a good projectile, and has good aerial ability as well.

On top of this, he moves and attacks very quickly for his heavy weightclass that nobody really knows how he got into, and has very little wind down on most of his moves.

I have been told that his side smash is "extremely punishable" but I fail to see how. It probably has the greatest range of any side smash in the game, can be spammed faster than most characters can roll, and he recovers from it almost instantly.

That doesn't sound punishable too me.

I'm not trying to jump on the band wagon, I'm just saying that maybe you guys should be careful about buffing him. I don't think it's really necessary.

Wing

agree with u

 

[Nybb]

Wow, quadruple post. There is an edit button, Mystic101.

But I disagree with you -- Zelda's fair sweetspot hitbox is only out for one frame, and don't be frightened by 2x, it started out incredibly small. Also, Samus does have a weakness: actually killing somebody. Sure she has decent projectiles and stuff, but yeah. I feel she is pretty balanced at the moment. Her wall of garbage can be super annoying to play against, and she is good at surviving horizontal kill attempts; her bad grab game and trouble killing definitely keep her from being anywhere near too good. I would like to see her bombs not make you totally helpless when they hit you, and explode on impact, but I don't know if those changes are possible or not.

 

[Mystic101]

aside from that i like all the changes, i could see ivysour having 2 upbs in the air rather than 1. Im glad lucas netral air is back to normal speed like it should be. toon is good and combos great but is anyone els having difficulty killing with him? Also i would like to see a faster falcon punch, just look at it in meele then brawl its dead slow... just make it a bit weaker
while zeldas f-air started out small it was not that hard to hit before and kills at incredably low % it is a move that was great to begin with but i suppose if the change turns out not to =25% more sweetspots. and ill edit later im tired and going to bed.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Holy a**, a quadruple post? o.o
That's almost impressive in its complete pointlessness.


Is anything going to be done about Mario's cape stall? It's a little insane right now unless I'm just not stopping it right.

 

[KayJay]

Wow, quadruple post. There is an edit button, Mystic101.

But I disagree with you -- Zelda's fair sweetspot hitbox is only out for one frame, and don't be frightened by 2x, it started out incredibly small. Also, Samus does have a weakness: actually killing somebody. Sure she has decent projectiles and stuff, but yeah. I feel she is pretty balanced at the moment. Her wall of garbage can be super annoying to play against, and she is good at surviving horizontal kill attempts; her bad grab game and trouble killing definitely keep her from being anywhere near too good. I would like to see her bombs not make you totally helpless when they hit you, and explode on impact, but I don't know if those changes are possible or not.

Well, u forgot about Samus biggest weakness, she can't do much about aerial approaches, simply because her "running upsmash" sucks balls, Up B has to much landing lag for using as an attack and up air has to little hitboxes against some aerial attacks (like Marth's). Up Smash still is easy to DI Out, I never use it (up tilt is great thought).

 

[GHNeko]

Holy a**, a quadruple post? o.o
That's almost impressive in its complete pointlessness.


Is anything going to be done about Mario's cape stall? It's a little insane right now unless I'm just not stopping it right.

Mario's cape stall is anything but insane as there are frames after the cape where he is vunerable. Time your bair's right and dont waste your DJ incase you get caped.

 

[timothyung]

Speaking of Zelda's kick, why do you increase the size of her fair's sweetspot but don't do so to her bair? They are basically the same attack. Or are there some major differences that I cannot notice?

 

[Revven]

Speaking of Zelda's kick, why do you increase the size of her fair's sweetspot but don't do so to her bair? They are basically the same attack. Or are there some major differences that I cannot notice?

Ask Ryoko.

 

[stingers]

It's because the Fair was absolutely worthless compared to the Bair before, so they wanted to give some incentive to actually use it.

 

[Yingyay]

Falco's utilt needs to be slowed down.
If Zelda's lightning kick is gonna be easier to sweetspot then lower the knockback a bit.
Everything else seems fine in the meantime

 

[GHNeko]

Falco's utilt needs to be slowed down.

Once again, the utilt was sped up to that point so that it combos into something other than utilt. :V

If you really want to get rid of it, give use legitimate reasons as to why.

 

[slimpyman]

falco is probably the most broken brawl+ character hands down. ive probably clocked in at least 100+ hours since feburary, and hes been op'ed since the start. oh yeah, there really isnt any reason to pick anyone other than Zss as far as tether recovery goes.....

it is a work in progress, but one step forward, 2 steps back.

I loved when beanasaur had the multiple upBs ;-)

 

[GHNeko]

falco is probably the most broken brawl+ character hands down. ive probably clocked in at least 100+ hours since feburary, and hes been op'ed since the start.

Marth and Platform stages says Hi.

If you have issues with Falco, lrn2CP. Marth + Platform Stages = Counterpick'd Falco.

 

[MK26]

Marth and Platform stages says Hi.

If you have issues with Falco, lrn2CP. Marth + Platform Stages = Counterpick'd Falco.

Kirby + Hi also = CP'd Falco

This thread is now about how op Kirby is.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Kirby + Hi also = CP'd Falco

This thread is now about how op Kirby is.

or up. i don't know why, but he feels weaker/not as powerful as other characters.

 

[Wingflier]

No Kirby is extremely good now. You probably just haven't met any good B+ Kirby mains.

But when you think about it, it's pretty amazing that they could make such a slow and floaty character so powerful.

He went from being nearly hopeless in vBrawl too being very useful now. Not to mention that his new meteor smash kicks so much a.ss it's unbelievable. It comes out a little slowly, but if you time it right its like a death sentence.

And his floaty, multiple jump nature makes it easy for him to get into position.

Wing

 

[JCaesar]

Kirby, hopeless in vBrawl?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNe7NOnufps