Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[BlueFoxXT]

His dash attack to knee combo is a little wack, i think it should set up for a tech-chase. or have a little little more horizontal knockback.

 

[GHNeko]

First time I've seen people ask to nerf Falcon.

 

[kupo15]

First time I've seen people ask to nerf Falcon.

I've asked for that nerf a while back though. The kb really should be much more horizontal like it was in melee. That combo is really ******** not to mention ******** looking. Give him a gentlemen as a trade off. You guys like trade offs, right?

 

[Magus420]

*snip*

You can figure out hitlag using this:

Hitlag = floor{[(D*0.385+5)*M*E]}*X
or
Hitlag = floor{[(D*0.390+5)*M*E]}*X

and then floor that result as well.

D=Damage
M=Hitlag multiplier stat of hitbox
E=Electric hitlag multiplier if electric element (1.00x currently in B+)
X=Hitlag code (0.60x currently)


That range is the furthest I've been able to narrow it down.

 

[cAm8ooo]

First time I've seen people ask to nerf Falcon.

Apparently you ignore everything Protien ninja ever says.

 

[kr3wman]

Dash attack - Knee only combos on (semi)fastfallers or if you hit with it hella late and you don't DI.

Just jump out of it.

 

[GHNeko]

Apparently you ignore everything Protien ninja ever says.

I don't count Bowser mains when it comes to Falcon. <_<

 

[cAm8ooo]

I don't count Bowser mains when it comes to Falcon. <_<

You bring up a very valid point sir.

 

[kupo15]

Apparently you ignore everything Protien ninja ever says.

Apparently he ignores more than that. I didn't get a response back for the gentlemen trade. A lot of people want it but I guess its much easier to look the other way...

 

[Magus420]

People need to stop suggesting changes I already made/had planned xD

Expect some new gentlemanz regardless.

 

[GHNeko]

Apparently he ignores more than that. I didn't get a response back for the gentlemen trade. A lot of people want it but I guess its much easier to look the other way...

I missed the post? That might be possible rather than assuming I ignored it. I constantly use the "Go to Last Post" button so I miss posts here and there when threads are active.

IIRC, there was already something in the works based around gentleman. I didn't think DA > Knee was looked down upon, but I dont control what happens to falcon nor do I oversee him. He's nothing more than a friendly character for me.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Magus.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I always wanted the DA>knee removed im just ignored and considered a troll because I **** people in conversation and b+ id gladly accept a gentle man though (no homoz)

 

[SymphonicSage12]

sorry for my noobishness, but what exactly is a "gentleman" in the terms you are using?

and call me even more of a noob, but I never knew that the dash attack could combo into the knee (in brawl+. Obviously, it didn't work in vbrawl).

 

[CloneHat]

It only works if you can't DI it. I don't know why everyone is freaking out...

A "gentleman" is the third hit of Falcon's jab combo. Don't ask me why.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Oh, I see....sort of? (about the gentleman thing)

and just a random thought, whenever I change hitboxes to be electric in PSA, they have like NO hitstun. The already electric attacks do have hitstun. Is electric effect just weird, or did I mess up something?


The topic is asking for falcon nerfs. The chat is asking for falcon buffs. GAAAAAAAAAAAH

And if you nerf peach's side b back to its original suckishness, I want a fricking tradeoff.


/rage...sort of

 

[Dan_X]

I like those Falco ideas, are they being implemented in the next nightly or two? Or are they just ideas from Falco+ boards?

No, they are being implemented as far as I know. There was a fair amount of conversation between Falco mains and people within the WBR. In fact, many of the ideas came from the WBR.

The SHL does 2 interesting things:

1. It makes it 'easier' for characters that Falco could wall really easily with his SHDL (Bowser, Ganon, DK, DDD...), because he's only shooting one laser at a time. It's more manageable to dodge--- but the lasers will still be quite potent. The lasers will require more skill to use efficiently...

2. The SHSL helps a ton more in matchups that stunk for Falco, namely against characters who are really short such as Squirtle, Pika, Kirby, etc. A skilled Falco can actually consistently land hits on them.

EDIT:

And if you nerf peach's side b back to its original suckishness, I want a fricking tradeoff.

/rage...sort of

I'm not sure that Peach's bomber needs to be nerfed... Either way, she's pretty beast in the right hands. She doesn't need any more range, are you kidding? Her fSmash is disjointed and pretty great as far as smashes go. She has turnips for RANGED pressure, has a good combo game, and is a pain in the *** to kill. Seriously, it's so difficult for a ton of the cast to edge-guard her.

Is there by chance a code to remove Peach from the game? ;P

 

[SymphonicSage12]

So the goal of the new lasers is to make it so that they affect all characters in a more balanced manner?

 

[Dan_X]

So the goal of the new lasers is to make it so that they affect all characters in a more balanced manner?

Yes, that's certainly part of it. It's actually pretty interesting. Another reason for their implementation is that SHDL is REALLY easy to do, and INCREDIBLY SPAMMABLE. Sure SHLs are spammable, but the fact that there's only one at a time cuts down the spam in half. It actually takes more tech skill to use the SHL efficiently. I mean, it's not intensely more difficult than the SHDL, but it's considerably more skillful to execute. It's also more thoughtful. You have to time it MUCH more, aiming your laser precisely. The SHDL hardly had to be aimed.

 

[The_Guide]

Has anyone been thinking about implementing the Magus Cancel? Or has it already been decided against/ deemed too difficult to code?

For those who are unfamiliar with the idea, its an L-cancel that eats up your shield upon activation. So you can't just mindlessly cancel your attacks, and have to judiciously choose your combos.

I personally think it would be a great addition, so long as the shield's recharge time was cut down (just a tad). With the current growth, I think the risk/reward would be skewed.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

My opinion: manual l-cancel is suckish in the first place. Making it have another disadvantage would just be stupid.

and the shields already have a stupidly low recharge time for a fighting game.

 

[Dan_X]

Has anyone been thinking about implementing the Magus Cancel? Or has it already been decided against/ deemed too difficult to code?

For those who are unfamiliar with the idea, its an L-cancel that eats up your shield upon activation. So you can't just mindlessly cancel your attacks, and have to judiciously choose your combos.

I personally think it would be a great addition, so long as the shield's recharge time was cut down (just a tad). With the current growth, I think the risk/reward would be skewed.

I'm personally rather uninterested in the idea. Honestly, seeing as how we have the ability to create any ATs we want, anything that we can think of within reason, I think we can come up with a far more useful AT than Magus Cancel.

Besides, I think auto L-Cancel is fine.

Think of it this way, not all characters will have to make use of Magus canceling as much as other characters, it'd be an unnecessary tech barrier for some characters no matter how you look at it. The characters whose game it would make more difficult, such as Link, Ike, DK, and numerous other characters who have aerials with more landing lag aren't even considered the best in the game as is. This will only make it more difficult for them to compete with the likes of MK, Falco, Marth, Fox... My point is, some characters will need to make use of this and some simply won't.

I'd rather see an AT implemented that each character can make great use of.

 

[WheelOfFish]

I still want to see Metaknight made harder to use. Any ideas of ATs?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

idk why or what the falcon upb buffs do/did. it was fine before..the only buff I feel was needed was the momentum which was more a fix than a buff. and yea everyones like "if you DI it" because we all know you DI every single dair/DA/uair/nair so it doesn't lead to a knee. DA>knee is just lame.... yawn material.

 

[kr3wman]

Of course you're not gonna DI everything thrown your way, but it's not like you can't.

 

[The_Guide]

@Orca

Point taken. I do wish that we could discover some way to make comboing harder, though. It just seems wrong to me that I can consistently combo my cousin, who's been playing smash since melee, when I only seriously got into the series when Brawl came out. Less hitstun? Idk.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

@Orca

Point taken. I do wish that we could discover some way to make comboing harder, though. It just seems wrong to me that I can consistently combo my cousin, who's been playing smash since melee, when I only seriously got into the series when Brawl came out. Less hitstun? Idk.

I was thinking more along the lines of more hitlag, which would in turn give players more time to SDI/DI attacks.

 

[kupo15]

sorry for my noobishness, but what exactly is a "gentleman" in the terms you are using?

and call me even more of a noob, but I never knew that the dash attack could combo into the knee (in brawl+. Obviously, it didn't work in vbrawl).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeekD8StV3U

A "gentleman" is the third hit of Falcon's jab combo. Don't ask me why.

Because he knees you in the gentleman!!

I was thinking more along the lines of more hitlag, which would in turn give players more time to SDI/DI attacks.

And more time to DI properly. Slightly more hitlag for better SDI and less hitstun is the way the go, I believe its getting implemented.

 

[Magus420]

The characters whose game it would make more difficult, such as Link, Ike, DK, and numerous other characters who have aerials with more landing lag) and they certainly aren't the best in the game as is. This will only make it more difficult for them to compete with the likes of MK, Falco, Marth, Fox... My point is, some characters will need to make use of this and some simply won't.

I'd rather see an AT implemented that each character can make great use of.

What? The non-canceled landing lag would be the same or near what it is currently. It would be an additional option available, that slower characters would reap much larger rewards from than faster characters who gain little. The exact opposite of what you said would be true.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I don't see why I should HAVE to press an extra button to lower my lag, ONLY to have my shield damaged.

In essence, l-cancelling would be useless. L-cancelling is supposed to be a benefit, not a tradeoff.


EDIT: nvm.

So basically the non cancelled landing lag would be like it is now, and l-cancelling would lower it even MORE, in the exchange for shield damage? I actually like the idea.

 

[thesage]

It'd basically allow some character to pressure shields very nicely while whittling down their own shield.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I see. So basically it's a buff to some characters' pressuring games, but it also it hurting their own shield as a reliable tradeoff. Right? sort of?

 

[xicsrh]

Since we're talking about old ideas, what about techjumping? I remember there was some discussion on it a while back. Can it even be coded?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

yes, it can. and it's being planned for the next set, I believe.

or is that wallteching? I'm confused here. @_@

 

[Doval]

The Magus Cancel sounds pretty interesting. I'd definitely like to see it tried out in a nightly build if it's possible to implement. However, I think it would have to either stop or drastically slow down your shield regeneration for a certain amount of time so that the aggressor's shield is still severely hurt after the person recovers from the combo. But knowing Magus he probably already took that into consideration. If it turns out that the person can still keep away until his shield regenerates too easily, you could also disable all rolls/dodges/durations for a while.

Techjumping? Oh wow, they took that out in vBrawl? I...I never noticed.

 

[The_Guide]

Lol, that IS what the m-cancel was meant to be, isn't it? Its been so long since it was discussed, I was thinking alr would go back to normal.

So, it doesn't solve my problems with the game, but I still find it interesting . It would be nice for characters to at least have the option, even if alr is low anyways. I miss good (Amazing) shield pressure games.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

what is techjumping?

and I'd need to see the idea of the m-cancel to test out whether I like it or not.

Any idea of when the new nightly will be out, Shanus?

 

[Mattnumbers]

what is techjumping?

and I'd need to see the idea of the m-cancel to test out whether I like it or not.

Any idea of when the new nightly will be out, Shanus?

Its when you tech off a wall and do a wall jump instead of teching in place, except it works with any character.

And iirc he said by the end of this week.

 

[xicsrh]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222905&highlight=tech

Here's the old thread for techjumping.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Oh... yeah I remember that in melee. I thought you were saying like being able to jump from a tech on the ground.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Every character can already jump off the wall when they tech it. I'm pretty positive that "techjumping" is relating to being able to jump out of a GROUND tech; and if I'm right, then I'm strongly against it. It just wouldn't feel right, and would add too much advantage to the defending player while screwing over the tech-chaser.

Ninja'd...

And what do you mean by "I remember that in melee"?! (Unless you got ninja'd, too, and thought Mattnumbers was correct.)