Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[KOkingpin]

well Im pretty sure Bowser is not that Bad. Zeonstar beat one of the better MK players in TN with Bowser. Its not CF but Its MK. Im probably the Best Capt Falcon Player in TN. Falcon does Raep Bowser, but If the bowser player plays smart and super defensive (cause everyone knows what falcon players want) He can beat CF. and Fire breathe Ledge guard is stupid good vs CF.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Maybe change the angle of falcon's dthrow so it sets up for nairs instead?

 

[proteininja]

A good bowser knows what moves to use at the appropriate time , a good bowser uses all his smash attacks to optimal capacity. A good bowser will space and time his aerials so that he cant be punished. A good bowser will find ways to grab you and then use his good throws to the best of his ability.

People can play ^ this game forever, it doesnt prove anything. If people were perfect and could do all the things you mentioned 100% of the time then not only would bowser not be able to beat falcon, but NO ONE could, and we know this just isnt true.

I wish you could play my friend. When he flips on the concentration switch. I have never ever seen him lose. ever. I guarantee if we lived somewhere other than tallahassee you would know who he was by the pure wake of his ****.

However, my point is. I cannot find one video of falcon in brawl+ anywhere who plays to his caliber. He nearly never makes mistakes that can be punished, and he makes very few in general. Even at my best making as few mistakes as I can( and I make plenty more than him, but not more than 1 or two a life) I cannot beat him. The only times I have beaten him with bowser is when he gets flashy and suicides twice at zero percent. I'm looking at my wii right now, and between the two of us we have played well over 3000 matches 1 on 1. Please believe me when I say I know what I'm talking about.

 

[proteininja]

well Im pretty sure Bowser is not that Bad. Zeonstar beat one of the better MK players in TN with Bowser. Its not CF but Its MK. Im probably the Best Capt Falcon Player in TN. Falcon does Raep Bowser, but If the bowser player plays smart and super defensive (cause everyone knows what falcon players want) He can beat CF. and Fire breathe Ledge guard is stupid good vs CF.

I do not think bowser is bad. This specific match up is ABYSMAL. And yes. fire ledge guard *****. Please change it back to it original angle. He can eventually jump over it.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

so a specific abysmal matchup warrants a gigantic, bigger than a Whopper-sized buff? I don't get it. Jigglypuff has abysmal matchups. They don't make her as heavy as dedede to compensate. Jigglypuff just gets over it or uses another character.

 

[Alphatron]

The original angle was friggin ridiculous though.

"lol Ness. Is that you I see actually trying to recover?"

 

[cAm8ooo]

I wish you could play my friend. When he flips on the concentration switch. I have never ever seen him lose. ever. I guarantee if we lived somewhere other than tallahassee you would know who he was by the pure wake of his ****.

I always like seeing some **** CF play. Perhaps yah can record some matches then?

 

[PKNintendo]

That's low, even for me.
:/

 

[jalued]

smash is a game where you need to get used to counterpicking, im sure there must be a few very bad stages for falcon that u can cp against him. bowser will always suck vs falcon, no matter what u do. and his previous fire breath was just stupid and OP lol

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

if your friend is as great as you say a player, then its the players, not the characters. >_> gg. just post some vids of you two playing

 

[MK26]

wow, i picked the absolute perfect time to repost something i hoped i would get some opinions on...

also, pick up kirby to 0-70 cg falcon
fthrow --> uair --> dthrow --> utilt --> dthrow x3 is all but guaranteed lol

 

[jalued]

wow, i picked the absolute perfect time to repost something i hoped i would get some opinions on...

also, pick up kirby to 0-70 cg falcon
fthrow --> uair --> dthrow --> utilt --> dthrow x3 is all but guaranteed lol

so kirby needs his uptilt having a bit more BKB then??

 

[MK26]

no, its just falcon

come to think of it, dthrow x2 --> ground hammer would probably work too o_O

why do people love selectively ignoring parts of my posts?

 

[iLink]

Why are people saying to change the angle of CF's dthrow? You can avoid a knee if you DI away and down e_e

 

[WheelOfFish]

Bowser SERIOUSLY needs some good reps. So few people main him competitively but he has so much potential. Fire breath is good as it is... it's still as decent edgeguarding tool, but it's not absolutely ridiculous.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

To Bowser who says that he needs more buffs;

JUST BEAT ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT, BEAT ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT, DON'T MAKE ME REPEAT IT!

(I don't own the rights to the lyrics obviously)


But seriously, Bowser's fine. >.>

 

[cubaisdeath]

*generic *****ing about a character that doesn't need buffs*

but for real, I gotta say that snake's c4 buff is heeellllaaaa good. I'm on the fence about it being op or not. using the c4 on the stage is ****ing ****, you can throw people into it, blow it up between nades, hell, you can even full hop drop it and detonate it before you hit the ground. but on the other hand, I can c4 jump every time (which is what I think the original purpose was) so I dunno. snakes tilts seem right, they do appropriate damage as well as knock back. but I think his nair and his dair should have more landing lag. I think its kinda ridic that I can short hop nair to ftilt on people lol

 

[matt4300]

*generic *****ing about a character that doesn't need buffs*

but for real, I gotta say that snake's c4 buff is heeellllaaaa good. I'm on the fence about it being op or not. using the c4 on the stage is ****ing ****, you can throw people into it, blow it up between nades, hell, you can even full hop drop it and detonate it before you hit the ground. but on the other hand, I can c4 jump every time (which is what I think the original purpose was) so I dunno. snakes tilts seem right, they do appropriate damage as well as knock back. but I think his nair and his dair should have more landing lag. I think its kinda ridic that I can short hop nair to ftilt on people lol

You think snakes tilts do appropriate damage? Are you jokeing? A utilt with a hitbox the size of 2 snakes that does 13 damage, combos into itself at low percents, and kills around 110... And a completely stupidly disjointed Ftilt that does ... get ready now 18%!!!! @o@ Its also fast... combos into like 4 other moves ... kills well... seriously man? really? theres nothing appropiate about the damage of his tilts. There like super fast completely disjointed smash attacks that combo.

 

[proteininja]

Why are people saying to change the angle of CF's dthrow? You can avoid a knee if you DI away and down e_e

Bowser cannot. That is why people are talking about it.

 

[Magus420]

Down & away isn't the strongest DI on the throw. Down & away but more away than down is the best DI. You should be doing that instead.

 

[cubaisdeath]

You think snakes tilts do appropriate damage? Are you jokeing? A utilt with a hitbox the size of 2 snakes that does 13 damage, combos into itself at low percents, and kills around 110... And a completely stupidly disjointed Ftilt that does ... get ready now 18%!!!! @o@ Its also fast... combos into like 4 other moves ... kills well... seriously man? really? theres nothing appropiate about the damage of his tilts. There like super fast completely disjointed smash attacks that combo.

have you played snake in regular brawl? I think that his tilts do WAY more appropriate damage, and the hitboxes in brawl+ are fine. do you know how much easier it is for characters to approach snake? his ftilt only combos into other moves if the other player doesn't tech the ftilt hit. I don't know who you are killing at 110%, it better be G&W, jiggs, MK, kirby, squirtle, or fox, otherwise you have some very bad DI. utilt only combos from like 0~30% on most characters, and as you stated, it does 13%, which means it can only combo 3 hits....OH ****! a 3 hit combo!? better alert the ****ing presses.

 

[stingers]

Yo

Make Mewtwo official

because he's too awesome not to be in

 

[matt4300]

have you played snake in regular brawl? I think that his tilts do WAY more appropriate damage, and the hitboxes in brawl+ are fine. do you know how much easier it is for characters to approach snake? his ftilt only combos into other moves if the other player doesn't tech the ftilt hit. I don't know who you are killing at 110%, it better be G&W, jiggs, MK, kirby, squirtle, or fox, otherwise you have some very bad DI. utilt only combos from like 0~30% on most characters, and as you stated, it does 13%, which means it can only combo 3 hits....OH ****! a 3 hit combo!? better alert the ****ing presses.

What chars do you play? Snake has the best defence in the game ... and unless your fast or have spammy projecitles its pretty hard to get through his wall of explosives and tilts.
If they tech ftilt ... TECH CHASE... theres nothing bad about the move. And its hard to get punished for useing it... and it does 18 damage
When talking about kill percents you don't usually include DI... Most people go with mario mid final destination no DI. That and fox has pretty high vertical survivability due to his weight... A 3 hit utilt combo + the aerial follow up is basicly what most chars have... except that most chars utilt combos cant be done 2 char lengths away, and most utilts that combo 3 times dont do 13 damage, and kill well.

I'm not saying that they need to be nerfed I just cant belive anyone would say they do appropriate damage for all the range, speed, and power they have.
Theres no reason to argue about it... I think they do to much damage and there just alround really good... you think there appropriate... agree to disagree? Its not worth the space or time..

 

[iLink]

Down & away isn't the strongest DI on the throw. Down & away but more away than down is the best DI. You should be doing that instead.

I was being general, that is pretty much down and away.

Also I was almost sure you could ground tech before CF hit Bowser, I'll have to test that.

 

[cubaisdeath]

What chars do you play? Snake has the best defence in the game ... and unless your fast or have spammy projecitles its pretty hard to get through his wall of explosives and tilts.
If they tech ftilt ... TECH CHASE... theres nothing bad about the move. And its hard to get punished for useing it... and it does 18 damage
When talking about kill percents you don't usually include DI... Most people go with mario mid final destination no DI. That and fox has pretty high vertical survivability due to his weight... A 3 hit utilt combo + the aerial follow up is basicly what most chars have... except that most chars utilt combos cant be done 2 char lengths away, and most utilts that combo 3 times dont do 13 damage, and kill well.

I'm not saying that they need to be nerfed I just cant belive anyone would say they do appropriate damage for all the range, speed, and power they have.
Theres no reason to argue about it... I think they do to much damage and there just alround really good... you think there appropriate... agree to disagree? Its not worth the space or time..

I play just about all of them, but I focus mainly on snake, ddd, wolf, and marth. you make it seem like nades and tilts are easy to perform when half of the time you have to cower in your shield hoping they hit that grenade on the floor. there are tons of options that players can use against snakes nades and its VERY easy to avoid his tilts. you guys make the utilt combo seem broken, as if most characters don't have ******** combos at 0% so what if snake has a staple combo, it only happens at low percents. you guys have to realize that snakes tilts are SUPPOSED to be powerful, seeing as his smash attacks are projectiles, or really laggy. his strongest tilt does 18% if you hit with both hits, but since most players hit the ground/tech you only get to hit them once, which scores 8%, which happens to be lower than most characters ftilts. you mentioned tech chasing, yeah, thats a possible follow up for ftilt, but its not guaranteed. I will agree that his utilt hitbox is still ********, but I think the damage output and the power is fine GRANTED you don't hit them a mile away (which wouldn't happen if it was smaller)

what everyone also seems to forget to mention, is that IF snake gets hit, he is ****ed for days. his recovery is less than mediocre, not to mention he is big and heavy, so he is combo bait. IMO it all balances out.


also, fox is one of the lightest characters in the game. don't get falling speed mixed up with weight.

 

[matt4300]

I play just about all of them, but I focus mainly on snake, ddd, wolf, and marth. you make it seem like nades and tilts are easy to perform when half of the time you have to cower in your shield hoping they hit that grenade on the floor. there are tons of options that players can use against snakes nades and its VERY easy to avoid his tilts. you guys make the utilt combo seem broken, as if most characters don't have ******** combos at 0% so what if snake has a staple combo, it only happens at low percents. you guys have to realize that snakes tilts are SUPPOSED to be powerful, seeing as his smash attacks are projectiles, or really laggy. his strongest tilt does 18% if you hit with both hits, but since most players hit the ground/tech you only get to hit them once, which scores 8%, which happens to be lower than most characters ftilts. you mentioned tech chasing, yeah, thats a possible follow up for ftilt, but its not guaranteed. I will agree that his utilt hitbox is still ********, but I think the damage output and the power is fine GRANTED you don't hit them a mile away (which wouldn't happen if it was smaller)

what everyone also seems to forget to mention, is that IF snake gets hit, he is ****ed for days. his recovery is less than mediocre, not to mention he is big and heavy, so he is combo bait. IMO it all balances out.


also, fox is one of the lightest characters in the game. don't get falling speed mixed up with weight.

I told you I'm done argueing about this... I disagree thats all there is to it... Btw its not us its just me that thinks snakes tilts are crazy.

Utilt
Mario-108

Fox- 104

G&W-88

Dont get Vbrawl mixed up with Brawl+

 

[cubaisdeath]

knockback is determined by power, weight, AND falling speed. fox still falls considerably faster than most of the cast, thus he is harder to kill off of the top

 

[matt4300]

knockback is determined by power, weight, AND falling speed. fox still falls considerably faster than most of the cast, thus he is harder to kill off of the top

>_> yeh that would be what I was saying... hes not the one of the lightest in the game. Hes about mid range. Atleast vertically.

 

[bob-e]

and the hitboxes in brawl+ are fine.

What

Snake's up tilt does good damage, fine
Snake's up tilt can combo into itself a few times against fast fallers, fine
Snake's up tilt works as a high priority anti air, fitting well into his defensive style, fine
Snake's up tilt can beat out another disjointed hit box 3 feet in front of him, BS

 

[thesage]

Actually, that's a bad demonstration bob-e since Snake is hitting falco's foot (which is pretty close to snake).

 

[leafgreen386]

Actually, that's a bad demonstration bob-e since Snake is hitting falco's foot (which is pretty close to snake).

Actually, if it really was hitting his foot, it would be absolutely ridiculous. What's really happening is that it's hitting his hand at about its max range. Although the shine is disjointed, he also throws his arm out there, extending his hurtbox, making it less safe than it looks.

 

[thesage]

Actually, if it really was hitting his foot, it would be absolutely ridiculous. What's really happening is that it's hitting his hand at about its max range. Although the shine is disjointed, he also throws his arm out there, extending his hurtbox, making it less safe than it looks.

I thought that was his foot he was throwing out.


+1 for my need for glasses.

 

[B3Brawler]

the CF to bowser matchup is like 90:-10. Whenever I'm bored i just go combo up some bowsers with my CF using only one hand.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

No, leafgreen, he is hitting the foot. Falco throws it out initially, but then he kicks it. Snake hit him while Falco's foot was outstretched (a.k.a when he was kicking it)


although the point still stands that it's not as disjointed as it looks.

And at B3Brawler,


level nines =/= good bowser players. It's only 90:10 with level nines.

 

[thesage]

Yea looking back at it I was right!

-1 need for glasses.

 

[Wavedash Master]

Sorry for breaking the snake conversation. I'm just questioning peoples' insight in this. Kupo has brought some things up about the physics of this game. Not everybody is necessarily in agreement about his opinion.

To put the question out there, are Brawl+'s physics fine the way they are or do the physics need a major re-haul to fit the likings of what feels good for us, the people who play Brawl+? Brawl+ was made because there is some players that simply did not like the feel of vBrawl. Does Brawl+ fit the needs for what we think is good physics at this point in time? Naturally, we're not going to have all yeses or all no's to these questions, so these type of things are going to need to be debated. I would not suggest bringing in ideas like "this would make the game more competitive" because it is very subjective on what more competitive is exactly (unless you can prove me wrong) and this question isn't in the matter of how competitive this game is, but how good the physics are. Anyways, just a word of thought.

My personal opinion: This game isn't as button happy as Melee is (that should be pretty clear). I'm liking the implemented AT's and character traits that have been happening recently instead of changing moves indirectly because that method of buffing/trading off overall diversifies the cast more. This makes it so not all large characters have things such as being easy to combo and being hard hitters. One example would be Bowser, who has these type of features plus having his special armor when he crouches, which is not a feature that other large characters have.

Edit: I just thought about this for a second. Even if we wanted to revamp the physics, I'm not sure the workshop back room would even want to in the first place because of all the rebalancing that would have to be redone (since they're in charge of the implementation process).

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I personally like the Melee physics best, but maybe it's just my love of wavedashing speaking. :V

 

[kciD]

I think the physics of Brawl+ are nearly perfect. I can't really explain why, I just know that after playing vBrawl for a while, then playing Brawl+ for a few days, then playing Melee for the first time in forever, Brawl+ is friggin awesome. All I can say is keep up the good work.

 

[Hyrus]

We need to find the voice actor who does the announcer and have "choose your character!" replaced with "fun speed activate! (electrical thingy at the end)". No nerds impersonating it though, that'd be wreck.

Mmm.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

The disjointedness isn't as bad it looks, because snake is hitting falco's outstretched foot.