Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Alphatron]

So long as the title screen doesn't say "Screw that, I want fun speed activate!" I'd love to see a brawl+ title screen. ^_^ Speaking of which, who came up with that lousy(no offence) phrase anyway?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

if you download he common5.pac that someone already posted, it changes it to buffer.


OH you mean not by the character selections, but like in the actual rules. that would be cool. and if it had the explanation, that would be even better.


@Alphatron: yeah, that phrase sucks. XD

 

[grim mouser]

I want to say it was MuBa, but my memory has rusted.

 

[cAm8ooo]

I want to say it was MuBa, but my memory has rusted.

Nope, It was Mookierah.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6349265&postcount=2887

 

[grim mouser]

Gah, I knew it started with an M. I was thinking Moobie instead of Mookie, so I thought of MuBa. LOL.

 

[Demacrez]

I was thinking of holding a contest for the artist to draw and color each individual 39 characters for the three screen warnings. Just replace those with the characters everyone has drawn.

Have the community vote on the best characters that are well drawn.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

you mean you're gonna put the characters on the warning screens? like the wrist strap ones and stuff?

 

[Demacrez]

Yeah, replace that with the characters and have a different phrases like for example: "Brawl+ is a faster, more competitive game to its predecessor vBrawl." etc, etc.

It won't really have that line but it's just an example...

 

[PKNintendo]

Yeah, replace that with the characters and have a different phrases like for example: "Brawl+ is a faster, more competitive game to its predecessor vBrawl." etc, etc.

It won't really have that line but it's just an example...

It should be a random character each time!

 

[SymphonicSage12]

that would be cool. Kinda like the "press start" screen on mario kart that randomly shows peach, mario, luigi, or bowser. :D

 

[VietGeek]

cookiemonster said in another thread that he want everything in Brawl "plussified".
Yeah so we should discuss what we can do.

Buffer - done
Mark neutral, cp, and banned stages with a green, yellow and red border respectively?
title screen
anymore suggestions?

Unfortunately it seems these altogether increase the filesize beyond the original file size and thus File Patch gets screwed up.

Using SmashBox's Size Resizer doesn't seem to work. =/

Although I bet you can replace it drectly onto the ISO and it'll work lol.

Btw, replace the Donkey Kong Jungle Beat icon with the Super Smash Bros. Brawl one. <.<

 

[Demacrez]

It should be a random character each time!

Or a group of three each time.

that would be cool. Kinda like the "press start" screen on mario kart that randomly shows peach, mario, luigi, or bowser. :D

Should I start a thread about that in both here and the artist boards?

 

[dabridge]

Unfortunately it seems these altogether increase the filesize beyond the original file size and thus File Patch gets screwed up.

Using SmashBox's Size Resizer doesn't seem to work. =/

Although I bet you can replace it drectly onto the ISO and it'll work lol.

Btw, replace the Donkey Kong Jungle Beat icon with the Super Smash Bros. Brawl one. <.<

Would be so awesome if it gets done. Someone contact the person in charge of SmashBox, nao.

 

[MK26]

This first sentence, is the only one I am quoting, and shows exactly what I'm thinking in my mind. Here's where you're wrong, even before the Shuttle Loop nerf, in Brawl when I DI the **** thing I live at 150% as is! Now WITH the nerf, it won't kill until well 30% later depending on weight and DI. The move got hit really hard, you still think that's not good enough? Wow... you must have some really bad DI to be whining about Shuttle Loop when its the least of his fearsome moves now as far as KOing goes.

And to prove that you don't die until 20-30% later now when you DI Shuttle Loop, here's VIDEO proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXsTir2_hpI

Skip to 1:22, G&W gets hit by Shuttle Loop at 161% and DIs it. You can tell that he DI'd it and had he been at the other edge of FD he would've lived. G&W would've also died much faster without the nerf and it's ****ing G&W who is LIGHTER than Kirby! So WTF.

What's 20-30% more when it's still arguably the best offstage gimp move in the game, what with its priority, speed, range, and (regardless of being nerfed) power? It's safe on block and whiff with the gair to cover you, and still makes a great recovery move. No other up-b is lagless on startup and end and provides such great mobility, while being nigh unpunishable and still killing! It just doesnt kill at stupid low percents while onstage any more.

I already brought up Nair with everyone in the backroom, didn't seem to really want to nerf its damage, but its the sweetspot you have to hit with in order to get that damage. MK also practically throws his hurtbox at you when he does it. It's a dumb move, sure, but it doesn't deserve any more nerfing than his Fair does. Also, Fair is the only one with those extra outside hitboxes, I asked shanus about it a long time ago (doing the same treatment to his other moves), his Fair is the only one with those hitboxes on the outside like that.

It's just less disjointed than the rest of his aerials...look at DK or Falcon for a character that throws their hurtboxes at you when they attack, and it's irrelevent when MK combos you into the nair. Also, PSA allows us to change the hitboxes, so we dont need extra outside hitboxes to decrease the range.

Tornado cannot be as abused at all. M2K said a long time ago all we had to do to it was reduce its damage, which essentially tells me that we hit that move hard as well. I don't see a lot of MKs in + use it as much as he does in Brawl so that must mean it's quite unsafe unless you're a heavy like DK or MK uses it to punish a terribly laggy move. Anyone can simply shield the dumb thing and punish MK for it now, it got hit hard, it can't even be used for recovery now at all.[/quotw]

The nado is still pretty safe on block. If it deserves a nerf, it would be in shield damage (it's got values of 32, 5A, 5A, and 5A under Shield Damage). However, the nado actually is a good example of something that, on paper, would seem that we have gone too far on, but it doesnt go against his 'character'. Why cant we overnerf some other moves, even just in test builds to see how MK reacts to them? Why are you so averse to even testing stuff out, even when you are admitting that he's probably the best character in the game?

Ganondorf Down B reset still making you cry? Too bad, he needs it, he would die if he didn't have it. I've never once understood you at all MK26. I understand the hitlag stuff with you (because you can't apparently DI or SDI worth **** otherwise, you wouldn't be complaining about MK's Shuttle Loop). But, that very first sentence shows me exactly how much you know about MK. You can't seem to handle him, at all. If you could, you'd be able to see SL coming after all the Uair juggles and DI it accordingly and live at about 170%.

Oh but wait, you're Kirby, so of course you will die earlier than Mario, DK, Snake, or Fox! But that's a weakness, so you want us to nerf Shuttle Loop so Kirby can survive around those %s too, huh? That's dumb.

Yes, it's still making me cry, because I think he doesnt deserve it. It's a character weakness. Dorf is already difficult and risky to attack offstage, why does his recovery have to be buffed? I'm not saying it's a ridiculously huge buff, but youve decided against making smaller changes because they cover characters' weaknesses too well. Give him a larger second jump or something, but a jump reset? Come on.

By the way, thanks for the insult. And I'm not complaining as someone who loses to MK, but as someone who plays MK and sees what he can do. I play a lot more characters than just Kirby. Maybe you should tell the Dorf mains that need their down-b reset to learn to DI. Not to mention the fact that Kirby is one of MK's difficult (if not soft counter) matchups, and that shuttle loop is much more useful as a gimp move, and therefore is much more useful against characters that, you know, get gimped by Meta Knight easily and often. Characters like Mario, DK, or Fox.

I'm sorry you're unsatisfied with what other characters have gotten, but there are clear reasons for them. I don't think I should have to explain to you why Yoshi or Ganondorf need the special resets... but apparently, you don't understand, and guess why that is? Because you don't main them or play them at all, you play KIRBY so of course you wouldn't understand.

I'm unsatisfied because you and i both know that we could do better to balance the game, and 'no matter what we do, there will always be a tier list' is a cop-out. No character needs a specific change to be viable, especially not one as far out there as a jump reset. Not to mention Dorf's OP jab and gimmicky utilt.

Typical complaining is typical.

If it's so typical, maybe there's some logic to it perhaps? If so many people complain about something, perhaps there are grounds for the complaint.

Yup, MK26 was raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaped here. Great post as usually.

I am amazed at this post. Not only is the your logic infallible, but your reasonings are sublime. I have no response.

 

[CountKaiser]

Nado does NOT have shield damage, PW just screwed up again on labeling stuff.

Rather, it has weight-dependent set KB. I also don't see how it's still safe on block. The last hit does 3 damage. Minimum shieldstun in brawl+ is 5 frames. MK is in the endlag for a good amount of time. I'm sure it's punishable on block now.

 

[FrozenHobo]

a friend of mine recently got back from a big B+ tourney in Tennessee. he had a few suggestions that he thought would help the game:

Metaknight:
-Always make aerial shuttle loop send upwards, like it does when he's grounded. The gimping trajectory for it right now is absurd
-Buff UpSmash's knockback
-Weaken Fsmash's knockback significantly, make come out faster
-Slow down F-tilt; make come out slower
-Lower D-air, N-air knockbak, increase B-air knockback

Snake:
-Weaken U-tilt slightly
-Lower damage on D-air and N-air (N-air to about 23% for all hits?)

Captain Falcon:
-Knee hitbox is ridiculous. It hits behind his foot as a sweetspot. It's a very simple bread-n-butter combo for a D-throw -> Knee, or a raptor boost -> knee.
I suggest weakening the knockback of knee, or changing D-throw's trajectory.

 

[Strong Badam]

yeah, falcon is so broken, having a reliable combo out of a grab is too good, too.

also, "screw that, I want fun speed activate!" should definitely be on the title screen.

 

[Rayku]

yeah, falcon is so broken, having a reliable combo out of a grab is too good, too.

also, "screw that, I want fun speed activate!" should definitely be on the title screen.

Yeah. 'Cause, you know, it was said there that Captain Falcon is retardedly broken in every way, and I was complaining about it throughout that list of suggestions.

Having a grab -> death combo at about 80% is pretty frustrating. Not gonna lie.

Once again, those were SUGGESTIONS.

 

[Revven]

Falcon's knee is getting a tweak courtesy of Magus's awesome sexiness with Falcon lately. Also, Kaiser, it is true. When I shield MK's 'nado, 99% of the time I can Ftilt him and punish him for using 'nado on my shield. It isn't safe on shield, at all. That's why an MK will just pressure your shield and before their 'nado ends they will try to move away from you so you can't punish him for it. However, this isn't very effective against DK due to his sexy *** range on his tilts.

I don't believe we have enough evidence MK needs more nerfing.

 

[ToxiCrow]

Not Complaining

hey guys, just got a question regarding Lucas's Zair (and no, i'm not asking for a hitbox on it)

i havent used Lucas against many people ,but i'd like to know if anything is going to be done about the hurtbox (dont know if i'm using the right word) on his ropesnake.

if you dont know what i'm talking about, take a look at 4:06 of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWAOoJ0YVxQ#movie_player

ZSS downsmash is NOT that big and this isnt the only move that can hurt him. i'm just curious to see if this is going to stay in and whats the reasoning behind keeping it.

and if it has been removed, then sorry for spamming the thread

 

[Rayku]

Falcon's knee is getting a tweak courtesy of Magus's awesome sexiness with Falcon lately. Also, Kaiser, it is true. When I shield MK's 'nado, 99% of the time I can Ftilt him and punish him for using 'nado on my shield. It isn't safe on shield, at all. That's why an MK will just pressure your shield and before their 'nado ends they will try to move away from you so you can't punish him for it. However, this isn't very effective against DK due to his sexy *** range on his tilts.

I don't believe we have enough evidence MK needs more nerfing.

I went to a tournament yesterday, and I discovered that Metaknight is, by far, the best teammate in the game. Simply because of N-air being able to cover more options than most characters can deal with. It can tech chase, punish spotdodges, kill, gimp, etc..

Tornado should never even be used in Brawl+. Especially in singles. That move is straight up bad now.

 

[PKNintendo]

hey guys, just got a question regarding Lucas's Zair (and no, i'm not asking for a hitbox on it)

i havent used Lucas against many people ,but i'd like to know if anything is going to be done about the hurtbox (dont know if i'm using the right word) on his ropesnake.

if you dont know what i'm talking about, take a look at 4:06 of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWAOoJ0YVxQ#movie_player

ZSS downsmash is NOT that big and this isnt the only move that can hurt him. i'm just curious to see if this is going to stay in and whats the reasoning behind keeping it.

and if it has been removed, then sorry for spamming the thread

Wow lame Sakurai. Did he even work out the kink on Lucas?

 

[VietGeek]

I don't believe we have enough evidence MK needs more nerfing.

I think now that we have more tools AND knowledge we should revisit his nerfs and possibly reconsider the direction of the nerfs.

He's one of the first character out to get modded by frame speed and hitbox changes. As was Ivysaur.

But Ivysaur was revised, but since MK keeps getting shafted in the fanbase department, he's been left virtually untapped, as well as virtually untouched by our hands recently (aside from our recent PSA port lol).

MK even got his two out-reaching hitboxes back. We should really unmask him one more time. =X

Wow lame Sakurai. Did he even work out the kink on Lucas?

It's probably because tethers when immediately linked to the ledge become an extension of the hurtbox. Are we sure it only applies to Lucas?

 

[ToxiCrow]

It's probably because tethers when immediately linked to the ledge become an extension of the hurtbox. Are we sure it only applies to Lucas?

I'm not sure about the others yet.
but i think it's worth looking into

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Hmm the tether hurtbox seems interesting.

MK26, ganon's jump reset was in melee. Did you ever complain so much back then? I mean it's a unique thing to him. And DI doesn't save him a lot of times, since he sometimes goes to low to recover, even with up b. And don't give me that "it's a character weakness" ****, he has a lot of weaknesses already.


It's nice to know that captain falcon's knee is getting fixed.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Nevermind he edited his post

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I edited my post. I realized I was being a ***** and corrected myself.

 

[ZeonStar]

MK is still the best, and by what ive seen from Rayku and Biglou's use of metaknight, I would honestly say hes even BETTER than he was in vbrawl.

People at the tournament were saying that metaknight was fine as he is and isnt that great anymore, and then Rayku showed what metaknight could do, and about half of the people in the tournament switched to Metaknight.

 

[PKNintendo]

MK is still the best, and by what ive seen from Rayku and Biglou's use of metaknight, I would honestly say hes even0 BETTER than he was in vbrawl.

People at the tournament were saying that metaknight was fine as he is and isnt that great anymore, and then Rayku showed what metaknight could do, and about half of the people in the tournament switched to Metaknight.

Bull. There is no way in HELL that MK got better with all of his nerfs.

 

[Shadic]

Can we get some videos?

 

[ZeonStar]

Bull. There is no way in HELL that MK got better with all of his nerfs.

With the hitstun in the game, metaknight can downgrab about anyone without a more than decent recovery, and gimp you without any effort, I would be getting 3-4 stocked by Biglou and Rayku, and they dont even play Metaknight, they just picked them up just for this tournament...yeah...you guys need a wakeup call.

Most of his nerfs dont even address his key problems, with the downsmash nerf on MK, it makes it easier for him to techchase, and rack up damage, and lead into better gimps.

The nerfs he DID get dont even hurt him that much, now metaknights just dont use tornado as often, and rely on his downthrow, super priority, and barrage of forward airs, ground speed, and super gimps. I mean, look at sonic, hes supposed to be a character who racks up damage, and he doesnt even have any priority at all, while metaknight can just decide to ****ing toy around with you off the edge and destroy any hope of recovering.

Good lord what is the backroom doing.

 

[ZeonStar]

Can we get some videos?

Videos are being gathered and posted by KOKingpin at the moment, ill post them when they appear.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

The thing is, what you just said about metaknight, other characters can do that as well.


See Jigglypuff, Peach, and Kirby. They all have the potential to R@P3 people offstage. These 3 are gimp masters as well. Metaknight isn't the only one with god tier aspects.

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah. 'Cause, you know, it was said there that Captain Falcon is retardedly broken in every way, and I was complaining about it throughout that list of suggestions.

Having a grab -> death combo at about 80% is pretty frustrating. Not gonna lie.

Once again, those were SUGGESTIONS.

you're arguing (suggesting) to nerf a character that is like MAYBE top 10. I have the right to be sarcastic toward that.

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Directional_influence

k. make better ones

downgrab

what's a downgrab?

also, marth/sheik/jiggs were the ****ing kings of gimps in Melee, but neither of them were the best char. we need more tournament data before we can accurately nerf or buff jack ****

 

[SymphonicSage12]

he means metaknight's down throw.


and I was just saying that there are other characters besides mk that are the gods of gimping.

and just something random, how do you quote only bits of people's posts?

 

[Strong Badam]

umm you hit "quote" on their post and then edit the other **** out

and im aware he meant downthrow, i was being a ****.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

oh yeah, I probably should have thought of that. X_X but how do people quote someone's long post, and then split it up into several little mini quotes?

Anyways, like I was saying, kirby has his bair which gimps really ****ing well by itself, peach has her turnips (nuff said) and dair that ***** people who don't sweetspot their up bs, and jigglypuff has WoPs.

 

[ZeonStar]

I guess ill just have to learn some anticharacters against metaknight then, Ganon wont be an option.

 

[Mattnumbers]

also, marth/sheik/jiggs were the ****ing kings of gimps in Melee, but neither of them were the best char. we need more tournament data before we can accurately nerf or buff jack ****

Actually in the last Melee tier list Marth was tied with fox (well he was .03 behind him), and sheik was in third.

Not to mention that MK ALSO has huge priority, range, is nearly ungimpable, fast moves, and a good grab game.

 

[Revven]

Well, the issue with Dthrow is that apparently (and I noticed this when I was playing DK against MK) is that it's supposed to nerf his techchasing from it. However, it also buffed his ability to get you offstage faster... which is not good...

I think Imma gonna tweak that **** or something...