Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Deleted member]

Kirby not top 10!?! are you insane?! Kirby, as it stands right now, is easily my number 1 pick for best in the entire game. Maybe it's because i play against a seriously good kirby, but some of the stuff he pulls off (we BOTH agree) that it's broken as ****. every time we play he manages to figure out a way to extend the grab combo or make it so that if i do manage to escape, he has a counter to that escape. I footstool out of the regrab? he upairs.

lack of approaches? LACK of approaches?

he has a RIDICULOUS wall of pain. half the time i'm running away or trying to get damaged past 0%, that way if I get grabbed I'm not gonna be tossed around for 45%. He can approach with fair, bair with ease.. his grab combos are ********. Bair, of course, has insane priority, range, damage, knockback. it is legitimately too good of a move.

F-smash needs to take longer to come out. it's almost instant, and it's frankly bull****.

i can't believe some WBRrs wanna buff that move.

 

[Beo]

With this Super Armor thing for Bowser, 2link suggested that it would help against something like Turnips.

But if peach was to Glide Toss a turnip towards me, and I eat it with Super Armor, Peach is going to get D tilt/F Tilt.

What fun trading % is. You hit me, I hit you. snore.

 

[GHNeko]

With this Super Armor thing for Bowser, 2link suggested that it would help against something like Turnips.

But if peach was to Glide Toss a turnip towards me, and I eat it with Super Armor, Peach is going to get D tilt/F Tilt.

What fun trading % is. You hit me, I hit you. snore.

As opposed to getting hit, getting put into stun, and getting jab > grab > combo'd by peach?

****. It'd take trading hits any day when my hit does more damage than my opponents.

 

[kr3wman]

As opposed to getting hit, getting put into stun, and getting jab > grab > combo'd by peach?

****. It'd take trading hits any day when my hit does more damage than my opponents.

If you get jab I'm pretty sure you can up-b out of any followup / roll away with other characters to dodge the grab

 

[Deleted member]

Also I'd like to say something about the nature of finalizing a game like brawl+

Let's not make the game go "gold". that sounds a little ridiculous to me, and let's be honest - the "gold" version won't be the end. There will be blood tweaks.

Take DotA or Counter strike and you'll know what i mean. community based games, mods, etc.. they always patch, they always update to how the scene changes.

That goes for people who are upset that there is no "end" to the game. Would you rather a game that has no way to be edited? That is either take it or leave it? No. The ability to edit is a blessing and a curse, but more so a blessing.

 

[Beo]

As opposed to getting hit, getting put into stun, and getting jab > grab > combo'd by peach?

****. It'd take trading hits any day when my hit does more damage than my opponents.

Aye, Arr!. But it's still not fun. All you're doin' then be crochin' and attackin'. whar be t' actual gameplay? T' fact that Bowser gets combo ***** be one o' t' reasons I love t' play him. He has tools t' get around it too. Side B be one major example. fire gimp be another. You guys be just terrible at Bowser.

 

[GHNeko]

Right. Whatever Beo. Take it to the boozer+ thread before I start reporting you.

 

[timothyung]

The "gold" version just means it's mostly complete and there won't be a lot of major changes after that. And we'll keep using that version for quite a long time for developing the metagame, tier list, matchups and such. After we have enough information on what to change we'll fix them. We have to give time for the scene to develop.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Oh yea. That thread full of boozer mains dont count at all. No no no. And there aren't any other Boozer players in backroom either. Cape is the only boozer main. Oh. And you too.

:/



Kirby isnt top 10. His bair is though. :V

Just saying.

Its overrated. One of his most baited moves and is definitely punishable. Its a great poke, and KO move but its an overstatement to say he can get by on it alone against someone who knows the matchup well.

As for my top 10. Meta, Marth, Sheik, Pikachu, Diddy, ROB, Falco, Squirtle, G&W, ZSS. No particular order.

 

[GHNeko]

Kirby wrecks Zamus, and I know that Gaw, Falco, Marth, Shiek, and Pika can wreck Zamus too. No way she's top 10.

And with his new JC SHine, I'm pretty sure fox can too.

 

[Beo]

Right. Whatever Beo. Take it to the boozer+ thread before I start reporting you.

I think t' Lucas and Kirby talk should be taken aft t' their respective threads. You just tried t' Cape me, by just dismissin' me arguement instead of... arguin'. (Oh lawd I'm ****in' hilarious)

 

[Deleted member]

this **** is broken son! disjointeddddd

 

[GHNeko]

I think t' Lucas and Kirby talk should be taken aft t' their respective threads. You just tried t' Cape me, by just dismissin' me arguement instead of... arguin'. (Oh lawd I'm ****in' hilarious)

Because you're arguements dont hold water because the things you suggested are bad for bowser.

 

[Beo]

okay roxas

 

[DiscoShark]

The only real change that needs to happen to Bowser is his fsmash being brought up to Ness dtilt speed. That'd solve just about all his problems imo.

 

[timothyung]

BTW about that Link idle animation... imo the one that he swings his sword should be removed so you can actually make use of his shield. And make the shield activate in the enter crouch animation also?

The only real change that needs to happen to Bowser is his fsmash being brought up to Ness dtilt speed. That'd solve just about all his problems imo.

What? Are you serious? Ness' dtilt is too slow. Needs Pika's jab speed.

 

[stingers]

The only real change that needs to happen to Bowser is his fsmash being brought up to Ness dtilt speed. That'd solve just about all his problems imo.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

 

[GHNeko]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

...owwwwwwwwwwww

 

[RPGsFTW]

Also, anybody know if Yoshi's Dthrow is getting a damage buff from 4%? I only ask because I would think that no throw should be that weak, damage-wise. And sorta relating to that, is there ever a reason to Dthrow with Bowser when his Uthrow gets a free aerial, or usually anyway? Dthrow does do 16%, but the Uthrow + free aerial equals more damage than the Dthrow, plus the possibility of getting a kill.

^That. 10quotes

 

[Blank Mauser]

Kirby wrecks Zamus, and I know that Gaw, Falco, Marth, Shiek, and Pika can wreck Zamus too. No way she's top 10.

And with his new JC SHine, I'm pretty sure fox can too.

Kirby is far too overrated.

ZSS and her Uair combos all actually work very well on Kirby. G&W is not so bad since she can space with side-B, and Falco, Marth and Sheik are all top 10 material that she can deal with. JC Shine is hardly a game changer...

Even if she is questionable, shes not bad in the least and can handle her own against top 10.

Kirby being best in the game is just ridiculous. Hes got far too many range issues and most the problem matchups he had in vBrawl have not changed. In fact, many of said problem chars have gotten better(Zelda, Marth, G&W) and new bad matchups have come into play.

Once you play patient and bait him instead of running into his wall, his lack of options becomes apparent.

 

[timothyung]

Three of Marth's throws does 4%, and his down throw does 5%. But because of their great applications they are quite good. If Yoshi's down throw can set up really well for combos I don't see a need for it's damage to be buffed. Is this true for his down throw?

Also debating something about the character ranking is unnecessary yet because many characters are good, so everyone's opinion is very different >.>

 

[Beo]

So I'd like t' know t' actual goal for Bowser. What be t' final plan for him? Is he goin' t' be this snorefest that he be now? Or can he go aft t' smartly paced uber **** he was in version 1.x? Bowser be t' only character t' have gotten worse as B+ goes on.

Cape where be you?

 

[timothyung]

I don' 'now 'at y'r t'ing 'bout

 

[RPGsFTW]

Three of Marth's throws does 4%, and his down throw does 5%. But because of their great applications they are quite good. If Yoshi's down throw can set up really well for combos I don't see a need for it's damage to be buffed. Is this true for his down throw?

Oh, I guess that makes more sense, for the Yoshi part at least. I never play Marth, nor really pay attention to his throws, so it makes a bunch more sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

Now anybody know how to answer my Bowser question above?

 

[strike42]

me and my friend both have this and we end up DC or desynicing every match, why is this happening? we both updated by the updater and everything was successful. so whats going on?

 

[5ive]

me and my friend both have this and we end up DC or desynicing every match, why is this happening? we both updated by the updater and everything was successful. so whats going on?

Make sure you guys have the same buffer.

 

[jalued]

me and my friend both have this and we end up DC or desynicing every match, why is this happening? we both updated by the updater and everything was successful. so whats going on?

either ur buffers are different, or you are not both PAL or NTSC (they dont work togeterh yet)

 

[strike42]

Make sure you guys have the same buffer.

that would be the # where the handicap # is right? b/c we haven't touched that.

also we've used the 4.1 just fine, but as soon as we updated to 5.0. we've been getting these problems.

 

[Kuga]

For some reason,some codes dont work for me on the last set.
Like,the game has the B+ physics,but some chacaters still has their vBrawl moves(like Falco Shine)
So....some codes work,and others dont.
Help? D=

 

[timothyung]

For some reason,some codes dont work for me on the last set.
Like,the game has the B+ physics,but some chacaters still has their vBrawl moves(like Falco Shine)
So....some codes work,and other dont.
Help? D=

Your pacs are not replaced

 

[Kuga]

Your pacs are not replaced

Lóu my fault,thx timo

So,there is a way to make Fox able to JC Shine on ground with tap jump off like in air?

 

[Alphatron]

I would indeed like to voice my thanks to the WBR. I got into brawl+ fairly recently. I must say that I did know about the project in the beginning but wrote it off as some scrub idea that would be dropped due to things being too hard for the BR and that everyone would run back to melee.

But I was brutally, miserably, and painfully incorrect. You guys are awesome and should feel awesome. I should wear a turd avatar to reflect upon my folly.

Now psp sucks so this post ends here.

 

[jalued]

Lóu my fault,thx timo

So,there is a way to make Fox able to JC Shine on ground with tap jump off like in air?

umm..press x/ y quickly lol. its nothing more than that... did u never play melee at all??? :S

 

[Alphatron]

DP. I think the reason for our complaints stem from the idea that the tier gap is still big. Simply being told to master our characters when the same could easily apply to vbrawl, does little to reassure us on viability.

For example. I still think MK>all and his uair/dair are still too good. But once we get some results(and ppl who actually play the chars) you'll see for sure.

 

[comboking]

I have a question What is buffer for?

 

[JCaesar]

Not entirely. I have seen and heard from many players these days (5ive included) that Kirby bair has won matches almost entirely by itself due to Kirby's air control and the move's disjointed hitbox. With good use the move can actually turn most matches over. Less KO power makes the move less potent on the stage which is an overall nerf to Kirby. The offstage capabilities of it in most matches would actually be relatively unchanged for the most part as dealing with the move off stage at those specific percents would be less likely than dealing with it on the stage at any percent.

The F smash should be his best KO move overall as it powerful, but I could see adding a few more frames of winddown to it after the hitbox ends to decrease its advantage on sheild, this makes it a good KO move but not as good of a pressuring move.

Kirby overall seems really solid but these two moves stand out as being a bit overpowered. The rest of his moveset is entirely solid, but the bair especially has the ability to become the main focus of his entire moveset and I believe needs most of the attention.

I don't think reducing KB on bair would do much of anything in the matchups where his bair dominates. It wouldn't kill as well, sure, but it's not like Kirby has trouble killing. It would still have the same priority and disjointed range and speed, and still beat all the same moves that it did before. Maybe a slight damage nerf would be better?

My personal opinion on Kirby: I don't feel Kirby needs any changes. He was perfectly fine without any nerfs, and I don't even feel Kirby is top 10 material. If the opponent plays patient and abuses Kirby's lack of approaches then he's fairly easy to handle.

As for Fsmash, the least thing I'd want on it is cooldown. Getting combo'd on whiff or even block is a huge nerf.

Nerfing his bread and butter won't change any matchups, and is counterproductive for the whole point of his character. If I were to ever consider nerfing Fsmash and Bair I would want something to compensate and help maximize his moveset's potential overall.

I guess there are bigger differences between regions than I thought. I doubt anyone on the East Coast could agree with you that Kirby isn't top 10. Sure, he has more bad matchups than, say, MK, but he's still top 5 easy in my book. He has good recovery, he kills very well, he has a very safe wall, he has absurd grab combos at low %s, he's a small target and hard to combo in general, etc etc.

Oh and btw, if Kirby just crouches, ZSS can't hit him with dash attack OR grab. Kirby wrecks ZSS.

 

[MK26]

nope it's actually pretty easy <__>

MK isn't even the best anymore! :V

Kirby has no bad stages and word's still out on the matchups. V:

ROFL

ITT: Idealists who have no idea how to balance a video game.

Get over it. Sometimes you are gonna main a low tier character. Even now the entire cast is relatively close. Yes low tier and top tier has a decent gap, but so what. Learn to play your character. If you can't beat so and so, pick up a counter. Brawl + isn't some super hard game to play. We will never have a metagame if people want to keep rearranging the cast's tier lists.

If down the road MK is seen to be rolling tournaments we'll address that, but even when I and other WBR members see him as the best character, we admit he has some pretty tough matchups, and at least a straight counter or two.

So your argument is "since we can never fully balance the tier list, we might as well give up before we rearrange everything." Well maybe once we rearrange everything, people will stop *****ing about it, and we won't have to rearrange it again.

I know what the phrase means.

I still stand by my statement that there is ALWAYS a limit. No matter what. You can always change too much.

"Too much of anything is always a bad thing."

This applies to change. No ands/ifs/buts about it. :/

Also, "No reason to restrict yourself, when you've already changes so much" == Slippery Slope.

How do we know when we've hit "too much"? We're imposing limitations that, in the end, won't matter, because even if we get to "too much", we can just scale the changes back and make different changes.

Do you see what's going on? It's a pointless circular argument that will never end, but you have the final say because your name is gRAPE and mine is Pink. You say you will listen to all community input and then you refuse it at your own discretion. It makes no sense to me.

lololol pink name. That is all.

Have a suggestion for Kirby here and would like the opinions of the community.

As you know we have weakened Kirby's F smash down quite a bit but I would like to propose that we remove all the F smash nerfs that Kirby has as its a good pressuring tool, KO move, and is one of his approach moves.

I would however like to see his bair have less KBG so that it does kill as efficiently as it does now. Something like making it kill 25% later than his unnerfed F smash on Mario at the center of FD (poor Mario).
This change will assist Kirby's edgeguarding game as it will take longer for the opponent to get outside his range and allow him to link more bairs off stage for a longer time, it will also be less effective on the larger characters as they have some trouble approaching through Kirby's good air control and disjointed range on bair (which is also a great KO move). Since bair will be doing most of its KOing off the stage it will not harm its KO power much in that situation as the KBG matters less and less the closer you get to the edge.

Please give your opinions on this.

So...buff his fsmash, then...buff his bair? I'll take it. Kirby doesnt need the bair to kill now that he has the super nair anyways. He can combo it to ridiculous percents (several weak hits linked to a strong hit), so this will only strengthen Kirby in that regard. And let's face it, Fsmash is strong enough as-is. I miss the vBrawl ridiculousness of it, but that was not a warrantless nerf.

Kirby wrecks Zamus, and I know that Gaw, Falco, Marth, Shiek, and Pika can wreck Zamus too. No way she's top 10.

And with his new JC SHine, I'm pretty sure fox can too.

Kirby? Wrecking Zamus? U crazy?

this **** is broken son! disjointeddddd

rofl. Hitbox size mod perhaps?

EDIT: i personally think D3 should get a percent-specific and character-specific chaingrab, perhaps one where at 0 there isnt enough stun to regrab, and once you hit around 30 to 50% you cant even follow their DI to regrab.

 

[timothyung]

When will the file patch codes be updated to 3.5.1 for non-US versions? The Japanese really want it, and PAL users would like it too. Or who has the ability to port it?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I have a question What is buffer for?

http://brawlplus.net/buffer-just-what-is-it/



basically, buffer allows you to input a move before a move you're doing currently is over. vBrawl's was ten frames of buffer. but now, we get to choose. 0 is no frames (you can't buffer at all,) 1 is 1 frame of buffer.....100-300 is ten frames.

EDIT: about that kirby thing, it's possible they could have increased the hitbox size using psa or the code.


EDIT 2: Keep kirby's ****ing fsmash as it is. it was nerfed with a good compromise to make nair a good move. and just get over his bair. seriously. It's punishable.

 

[Alphatron]

I still say Bowser should just get an SA run instead. The crawl is slow and people will easily get used to it.