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[Mattnumbers]

The problem with that is that right now one of sheiks weakness's is that she has trouble once the enemy gets to high percents. I think that making Fsmash send them off like that would be buffing a weakness.

 

[Sanu]

This pretty much. L-cancelling is something that could never go wrong. Not to mention, I actually taught my 7 year old brother how to do it everytime when we actually play smash 64. I just told him "puch L as you land". And he can't even recover when playing as Kirby. I'd argue that a simple button press everytime as you hit the ground didn't require much tech skill. Especially when nothing could ever go wrong by doing it.

L-canceling or Z-canceling in 64 was around 50x easier than in Melee.

Not to dispute your point or anything, I just felt like it had to be said

 

[Yingyay]

The problem with that is that right now one of sheiks weakness's is that she has trouble once the enemy gets to high percents. I think that making Fsmash send them off like that would be buffing a weakness.

Knockback nerf. Thats what im saying. Leave it alone, just nerf the knockback.

Come to think of it, in melee she had the slap but thats gone now. I know this isnt melee, but back then, that sorta fit her character.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Sheik was pretty much broken in Melee though.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

>.> Just nerf the KBG of it in my opinion. make it like jiggz's fthrow-ish.

 

[Yingyay]

Sheik was pretty much broken in Melee though.

Yeah...kinda. But so was Marth and Fox/Falco.

I was just reminiscing on the good ol days.

 

[Revven]

L-canceling or Z-canceling in 64 was around 50x easier than in Melee.

Not to dispute your point or anything, I just felt like it had to be said

This is so true, I just played Smash 64 yesterday and I don't even play it that often and was Z-Canceling out the ***. Where as Melee several hours later, I would miss a few L-cancels (only due to me being used to Brawl Falcon and not having to L-cancel Nair...) but other than that, it was still kinda mindless to me in Melee. 64 it was even more mindless and I would only miss the cancel if I missed the button or my finger slipped (which was rare).

 

[Yingyay]

This is so true, I just played Smash 64 yesterday and I don't even play it that often and was Z-Canceling out the ***. Where as Melee several hours later, I would miss a few L-cancels (only due to me being used to Brawl Falcon and not having to L-cancel Nair...) but other than that, it was still kinda mindless to me in Melee. 64 it was even more mindless and I would only miss the cancel if I missed the button or my finger slipped (which was rare).

-_- This is why I cant play melee professionally. My fingers are re******.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

-_- This is why I cant play melee professionally. My fingers are re******.

that's exactly what they want. they want to discriminate against us ******-fingers, they want to keep us down and out of their tournaments!

rise against the man! fight back! say no to L cancelling! equality for all! down with the tyranny!

 

[RyokoYaksa]

And for the record, I only think Sheik's fsmash should be slightly nerfed in KB, that's all. Yes, it's punishable, but what smash isn't? With her great crawl-dashing game, it's really not that hard to bait an attack and punish with it. It's a too-reliable KO move that seems out of character for her.

The vast majority of Smash attacks don't even come close to how punishable Sheik's Fsmash is is whiff or especially on block. Ftilt-Usmash is more reliable. >.>

 

[PKNintendo]

The vast majority of Smash attacks don't even come close to how punishable Sheik's Fsmash is is whiff or especially on block. Ftilt-Usmash is more reliable. >.>

Vast Majority is stretching it. There a a few crappier Fsmashes son. >_>

But I get your point.

 

[leafgreen386]

It's good to see this is actually... getting... somewhere. I completely agree with the notion that a properly spaced multi-hit ground move should hit to the end, regardless of DI or SDI. Because, put simply, at the highest level of play, the move will be gotten out of on a fairly regular basis if it's possible to get out of. I know it's an aerial and not a ground move, but look at melee fox's uair. You almost never see both hits connect anymore since players know how to SDI the first hit consistently. As a result, fox players now have to space/time it so that only the second hit connects if they want to guarantee a kill on hit. It's a good thing that it was an aerial, otherwise his uair would've been made effectively worthless simply because of SDI. However, with ground moves, you don't have nearly as much freedom, meaning if a move is escapable with SDI, the move may end up becoming simply... useless. It doesn't matter how good the final hit is if you can never land it, especially if it's possible to retaliate before the attacker is out of lag.

That said, it's now a matter of figuring out what "properly spaced" really is. For sheik's fsmash, you could argue that her thigh is "properly spaced," since it keeps them closer to her for the second hit. On the other hand, "properly spacing" just about any other attack in the game usually means hitting with the maximum range possible... making the tip of her foot "properly spaced." It's truly a tough call on things like this. I actually don't have any problem with the move connecting all the way through at all, regardless of which part of her leg you hit with. I do agree with raising its base and reducing its growth, though, ultimately killing later, but setting up for edgeguards sooner.

On the topic of multihit moves with many hits, I also like the idea of having increased SDI potential on the earlier hits and less SDI potential on the later hits, making it tougher (or even impossible) to get out of purely on reaction.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Yeah...kinda. But so was Marth and Fox/Falco.

I was just reminiscing on the good ol days.

How? I'm really getting tired of people saying this. THIS IS NOT TRUE! No one character in melee was broken. Jiggs, peach, Falcon, IC, Samus, and ganon players do almost as well. Geez, when will you guys stop saying that stupid lie.

 

[Alphatron]

How? I'm really getting tired of people saying this. THIS IS NOT TRUE! No one character in melee was broken. Jiggs, peach, Falcon, IC, Samus, and ganon players do almost as well. Geez, when will you guys stop saying that stupid lie.

Probably when people stop saying that Metaknight sword CANNOT BE BEAT.

And Samus' pummel will be fixed in the next nightly, right?

 

[ETWIST51294]

Probably when people stop saying that Metaknight sword CANNOT BE BEAT.

And Samus' pummel will be fixed in the next nightly, right?

Thats also a lie. MK CAN be beat.

 

[Mattnumbers]

How? I'm really getting tired of people saying this. THIS IS NOT TRUE! No one character in melee was broken. Jiggs, peach, Falcon, IC, Samus, and ganon players do almost as well. Geez, when will you guys stop saying that stupid lie.

Since "broken" is subjective, yes I can say that Sheik is broken.

And does it really matter? This thread is for Brawl+, not melee.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

>.> I know all this arguing debating is supposed to happen, and it's supposed to "advance brawl+", but I don't really see how this crap is getting us anywhere.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Since "broken" is subjective, yes I can say that Sheik is broken.

And does it really matter? This thread is for Brawl+, not melee.

Just saying, Shiek isn't broken. I can't even remember the last time Shiek won a tourney.

And your right, this about Brawl+, lets let this be.

 

[Mattnumbers]

>.> I know all this arguing debating is supposed to happen, and it's supposed to "advance brawl+", but I don't really see how this crap is getting us anywhere.

I think we already got somewhere. Although arguments about it after this are pointless because both sides are basically settled.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I think we already got somewhere. Although arguments about it after this are pointless because both sides are basically settled.

That's what I was talking about. People kept arguing after the points had been settled.

 

[GHNeko]

Alright, so next topic for us to ***** and arguedebate about?

Ness+ mains is a meme.

Yes/I'm homosexual.

V:

But seriously, next order of buisness guys?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Alright, so next topic for us to ***** and arguedebate about?

Ness+ mains is a meme.

Yes/I'm homosexual.

V:

But seriously, next order of buisness guys?

Random much? XD

Anyways, I can't really think about anything except the next nightly. *waits*


Oh, and project mewtwo :D

Hm.....well, there is one thing that bothers me is that luigi can't be comboed and his nair is too good, but yeah, he's already been addressed.

 

[Alphatron]

Stages. But PK is OOC...

 

[SymphonicSage12]

stages. But Pk Is Ooc...

Oh Yeah.

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2. Neko's Idea. **** Yeah. Hehe.

 

[Mattnumbers]

DDD still seems to me to be in need of help, although I haven't ever seen someone who is really good at playing him in Brawl+ so I'm not sure.


Also I miss Deadlands


That reminds me, how are all the stage fixes coming along? Will they be in the next nightly?

 

[GHNeko]

I think there are some things we left alone in the past that we should go back over. <_<

EDIT: Ninja'd fffff.

Personally, I think D3 is mad legit. I'd give him more aerial momentum though and fix the stars on UP B normal landing as they only get the B+ changes in the later half off the move, and not doing the first half. :/

Deadlands is <3.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Left alone as in never changed, or left alone as in changed and kinda disliked but kept anyways?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Left alone as in never changed, or left alone as in changed and kinda disliked but kept anyways?

I think it's the latter one.


Oh, god, all this talk is making me antsy for the next nightly. @_@

 

[Alphatron]

If the B+ stream I saw was of the next nightly, then I assume we've got a fixed SSS?

Also, seeing one of Kupo's videos in slow motion, I gotta say. The vbrawl ledge sweetspot is pretty ridiculous. Brawl+ uses the same size ledge sweetspot, right?

 

[proteininja]

I think everyone is just looking for something to talk about because WBR hasn't really brought any new things up that need to be discussed.

If they release information on experimental changes they are thinking about implementing, then we can move on. Until then, its back to the endless circle of stupid.

However, in the interest of attempting to change the subject. I have noticed that diddy and wario have very few changes, as well as some other characters. They also have very few mains that I know of. What does everyone think of these characters. Does Wario need a fun new thing like most other characters have or is he fine?

Edit: wow ninja'd by like ten people

 

[jalued]

how about port town changes? are the cars going to recieve much less knockback? i really wish that stage was tournament viable (however much of a good cp for jiggs/peach it will be )

oh and skyworld changes being implimented?? (making the platforms distroyed and the bottom platform invincible etc

and yeah, bring back deadlands! (but with reduce boundarys, that level is stupid with lucario lol)

 

[WheelOfFish]

I saw a couple of videos that made DDD look ridiculously broken but I can't remember where I saw them. I tried maining him for a while but I could not get relatively close to what I saw. I don't know if he needs buffs or not though.

What's this about Mushroomy Kingdom stage changes?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Wario is top tier material as he is. leave him alone.

Diddy's bananas are even more amazing due to the fact that random tripping was removed. leave him alone as well.

And GHNeko, show your idea for MK 1-2. it =secks


Although....

I had something in the back of my mind. Is there a way to make it so peach's turnips don't disappear when they hit a shield? I <3 that in melee. not saying that this should be melee at all, but still.

 

[Revven]

If the B+ stream I saw was of the next nightly, then I assume we've got a fixed SSS?

We decided to remove the SSS as all it did was cause trouble.

 

[jalued]

Wario is top tier material as he is. leave him alone.

Diddy's bananas are even more amazing due to the fact that random tripping was removed. leave him alone as well.

And GHNeko, show your idea for MK 1-2. it =secls

yeah the only real reason for changes such as jiggs mobility, fox's JC shine, falcons friction etc is that it ads depth and further benefits the characters playstyle and learning curve. fox was far far too easy to play, and with this is much more fun to play, and will be balanced accordingly

wario has always been considered high up, all he needed was hitstun to shine lol

diddy is also considered pretty good, the nanas are crazy onstage, and he has very few bad matchups

 

[proteininja]

we Decided To Remove The Sss As All It Did Was Cause Trouble.

Hooraaaaaaaaay!!!No more 75m.

 

[GHNeko]

So yea.

My Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 idea. It still has some kinks to work out, but they'll be figured out once we know that this...

...is possible


Also, time to fight for Dashing backwards out of Crouches. <3

Neko, awaaaaaaaaaaaaay! :V

EDIT: Also, I'm sure that it's possible to use Custom SSS to add Wifi-Room to the bottom of Melee, as in the My Music selection, that's where the Menu icon is. :V

 

[SymphonicSage12]

So yea.

My Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 idea. It still has some kinks to work out, but they'll be figured out once we know that this...

...is possible


Also, time to fight for Dashing backwards out of Crouches. <3

Neko, awaaaaaaaaaaaaay! :V

EDIT: Also, I'm sure that it's possible to use Custom SSS to add Wifi-Room to the bottom of Melee, as in the My Music selection, that's where the Menu icon is. :V

Just a question. is there a way to remove the blocks? those seem out of place in a neutral.

 

[GHNeko]

LOL. Who said it would be a neutral. lmao.

I'd rather slow the spawn time of the blocks and give them 1 HP. :V

If we MUST, we can try to have them break on spawn. V:

:V

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I would prefer if the blocks were completely gone ala deadlands like, and if that stage was a neutral. :D