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Brawl+ Ness (SEVENTEEN ****ETY THREE)

Shell

Shell

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I'd guess the PKT2 distance halving on hit could be a safety measure for offensive use on the stage...(?)
 
C

CanadaKid91

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Hmm... that's true... but how many Ness players would actually SD from an onstage PKT?
I mean, the learning curve wouldn't be that high and it would help his recovery... good trade-off?
 
thesage

thesage

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I would prefer to have Ness' sh lowered, uair sped up and made to combo better, and a recovery buff, on top of the u-tilt buff. D-smash is still too slow so unless they speed it up like crazy, it will always be hard to hit with. That's just what I think should be done...

I still don't get why his sh is so high. It wasn't like that in melee at all and his aerials are meant to be used close to the ground with their low landing lag. That's just what I should think happen and then Ness would be fine. Compared to most characters he doesn't really combo, and since he was a combo rapist in 64 and somewhat decent at it in melee I think that should be reflected instead of his crazy kill power he has now. I still don't have brawl+ so I'll try to get it this weekend. I've said that too many times. I don't really know if Ness *needs* this stuff compared to other character though.
 
Gaussis

Gaussis

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jalued said:
haha tbh its hardly revolutionary...
Click to expand...
Well, all I wanted to know was if it still worked...

CanadaKid91 said:
Here's an interesting buff idea for Ness:
His F-air blocks energy based attacks (fireballs, lasers, thunder jolts)
Like this: (at around 1:10) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRRjsEMc384&feature=related

I think it's cool, and it goes along with the whole psychic powers thing. I don't think its OP either.
Click to expand...
Ness can already do this, except it's a little harder in Brawl. Don't know about Brawl+ though. The one he can block most consistently to the best of my knowledge is Pit's arrows. Try testing on those first.
 
Veril

Veril

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Gaussis said:
Well, all I wanted to know was if it still worked...
Click to expand...
There is no reason shield scraping wouldn't work in B+. If you could explain how its performed I could test it for you.

In fact, due to increased shieldstun and nerfed powershielding, the trick might be more useful.

Oh, BTW, its possible to stall under a lip with PKT, and it is f***ing lame as hell.


Aerials blocking projectiles isn't exactly unique to Ness. He can probably block any with less than laser priority. Jiggs can do this with any of her aerials.
 
Gaussis

Gaussis

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Just use PKT along the edge of the shield (the top is the easiest) and that's it. The one in the video is the center one but IDK how to do that one consistently.
 
thesage

thesage

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Pkt ledgestalling can be bwaten by lvl 9 cpus. Sure it's safer/easier to do now, but still no more broken than it was in 64...
 
Veril

Veril

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thesage said:
Pkt ledgestalling can be bwaten by lvl 9 cpus. Sure it's safer/easier to do now, but still no more broken than it was in 64...
Click to expand...
I didn't mean that it was broken. I don't think that lol. The tactic is just annoying. Its not hard to beat though, especially with a character like MK, Jiggs, or Rob.
 
CountKaiser

CountKaiser

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Well, after using Ness for a bit, I'd like less KBG on his dash attack, so that it can combo into uair or bair.

Also, what's the point of Ness's dsmash buff? I hardly ever use dsmash, so I wouldn't know.
 
C

Clever_Sleazoid

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After using Ness recently, I concluded dair to weak PK FLASH is the most badass thing ever, no matter how much better doing anything else from dair may be.
 
Gaussis

Gaussis

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I don't see it too often in the vids, but how effective is dair against the opponent? How well does it work on shields?
 
~tgm_Zeej

~tgm_Zeej

/
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Dsmash is a bit useless, but it's better than his old one so I'm not complaining. At least it actually leads into stuff sometimes. Wouldn't complain if it went though.

I haven't had an opponent shield a dair much, so I wouldn't know. They usually spot dodge, or hit me with an aerial if they don't get hit. I'd assume it would be safe on the block if you can get them to block it though.

Dair leads into almost any aerial, and is a very effective spike. Good move, and it's sourspot has pretty wicked knockback too.
 
C

Clever_Sleazoid

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thesage said:
Dair -> pkt2 is better than pk flash lol.
Click to expand...
Dair to virtually anything other than PL Flash is better than Dair to PK Flash. I already said this.

Doesn't make it the most badass thing ever.

If they would just speed up PK Flash by 1.25x like I've been saying for months though, it may be actually viable at some %, sort of like dair to PAWNCH.
 
thesage

thesage

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I wish he moved faster. I'll see if I can play w/ my friend 2morrow and upload vids (praise the lord for infinite replays code).
 
CountKaiser

CountKaiser

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Okay, some things I noticed with Ness.

Fair is a good spacing move, and you can link a fair into a grab. Now his dthrow leads into all sorts of combos. Dthrow -> double fair, dthrow -> double uair at low percents, dthrow -> dair. If an opponent DI's the dthrow wrong near a ledge, Ness can quickly follow up with a dair spike combo for an early kill. dthrow -> uair is also a guaranteed kill setup.

PK fire, at low percents, can be chained together easily, since the fire can't be di'ed out of, and the low percentage ensure no KB from the initial hit. Chain a few of these into a dthrow for nice results.

That's all I have for now. Please update the OP with this, as you make it sounds like Ness is garbage.
 
shanus

shanus

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So, im not sure if this is true, but I mentioned it to silven when I made these new physics. It seems like ness grav changes get cancelled as he enters the loop of his jump. What I noticed is if you DJ very quickly, or aerial very quickly, it seems like te full gravity effects are done for the duration of those aerials so he seems to move quicker then. I'm not sure if its true cuz I've barely had any play time lately, but please explore this.
 
CountKaiser

CountKaiser

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Shanus, I can't tell if any of that is true, but I do notice that during his dj, buffering an aerial will cause him to have sort of a hop once it's done. All the hop does is stop him from descending at the end of the dj for about a split second, but it is noticeable.

Also, new Ness physics are sexy as hell.
 
thesage

thesage

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It happened in vbrawl too, but it was not as noticeable. I believe it works similarly to how M2's bair gave him more height from his dj...

Dair -> bat counts as a consecutive hit in training mode. You can basically do anything after a dair lol. It had a lot of hitstun even in vbrawl so I'm not that surprised.

Uair is that great of a kill move (when compared to bair). I personally prefer d-throw to bair rather than uair. If they di in front of me I can do a nair which would probably knock them off the stage at the percents where a bair wouldn't hit them.

Pkt juggling is really **** when your opponent at higher percents. It's like Ness vs. Samus in melee. Though there are plenty of ways to get out if it. The opponent could use a reflector/absorber or simply hit the pkt head. I'm just glad Ness can't get punished for hitting somebody with it now though.

Personally, I think Fair is pretty bad in contrast to nair, bair, and dair. Fair only works when your opponent is at higher percents, is a fattie, or is recovering. When you move forward it loses a lot of range. It's great for retreating though.

D-tilt beats falco's up-b but loses to fox's and trades hits with Wolf's up/side-b. It's kinda funny how the spacies are all different.

I really like fullhop aerial to dj aerial. So many combos work like that.

Pk flash is pretty useful, you have to practice using it a lot though.

Sweetspotting the edge with pkt2 is harder than it was in vbrawl (and impossible on some stages). Stages with edges like Battlefield and Pokemon Stadium 2 are possible to sweetspot. On fd it's only possible on the left side of the stage. The right side is possible, but really hard and not realistic enough to be safe to use in a match.

U-tilt ***** fastfallers.

The new physics are ****.

Edit: also I'm planning on writing a lot of stuff up for the first post. Just give me some time.
 
leafgreen386

leafgreen386

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Uair is that great of a kill move (when compared to bair). I personally prefer d-throw to bair rather than uair. If they di in front of me I can do a nair which would probably knock them off the stage at the percents where a bair wouldn't hit them.
Click to expand...
Honestly, if you can hit them with a nair, you can probably hit them with a bair. Its hitbox is huge, and the times I do play ness, I frequently use the reverse bair hit when they DI in front of me, which will then cause them to fly in the direction ness is facing.
 
thesage

thesage

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Meh, sometimes it doesn't work though or I would rather do a nair so that I could simply edgeguard. Nair is decently powerful so it doesn't really matter. It mostly depends on which side of the stage you are own.

I forgot to mention that d-tilt does not trip anymore, but I don't really care about that since I only use it to edgeguard now. Zelda's d-tilt still does trip on my wii so I think the angle change is what caused that.
 
proteininja

proteininja

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My personal favorite combo is PK fire > grab > down throw > fair.

So, i was wondering is there anything, anything at all that reliably can combo into pk fire?

Also, things that less reliably lead into pkfire are worth a mention too.
 
proteininja

proteininja

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I was just tring to think of what the biggest most awesome looking combo would be from 0 to death.

I think it would be something like u-tilt > u-tilt > u-tilt (i'm thinking falcon so it would work) > sh > d-air > pk fire > grab > pummel in fire > down-throw > fair > (off stage now)fair > fair > ( now recovering ) dj > PKT2 > *****!!!

I have yet to see if this is impossible to di out of, but if it worked it would be a flashy and amazing 0 to death combo. Also, it is slightly positional so you would need to start it about five feet form the edge facing the edge. What do you think sage?
 
yummynbeefy

yummynbeefy

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ness is a great character imo but you guys are underestamating fair what ill do is
u-tilt chain<uair<dair<ff'ed fair< tech read and do another dair to combo it up

but yea his ground game is pretty decent nothing special though up smash is a better move than people think though even in brawl+ more should i say expecially in brawl+ if you hit at the end of the smash it sets up perfectly for a bair or any air for that matter
 
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