Brawl - More balanced than Melee? Lie or truth?

[sagemoon]

What the hell happened to this topic? It's so off topic now. So many what-ifs.

In 64 they balanced the game by making every character over powered.
In melee they failed by making some characters over powered.
In brawl they just made every character suck, with some characters that suck a little less.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Meta-Knight, fast moves with almost no cool down. Imagine that with L-canceling... and hitstun. Multi jumps too.

Can you say "comboing across the stage into Up B/Side B"?

Except L-canceling really wouldn't do much for him, and he'd still get wrecked by Falco's laser camping.

If he falls faster maybe, but he doesn't move fast enough in the air to combo effectively, and reaching the ground to dash in between hits would require him to be a fast faller.

Oh yeah, he'd be a feather weight Marth with no spike, but a much better recovery...and no grab combos.

But his fast kill moves would be pretty beast.


Meh, I don't think he could top Marth, Fox, Falco, or Shiek, but he could definately pull 5th.

And Snake would be so punishable it's not even funny. Marth would completely destroy him! Out ranging f-tilt and up tilt. Spiking him through his Cypher. Comboing him like he combos Ganondorf! 7-3 easy.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

There have been multiple misinterpretations of what I have said, and I think I should correct a few of them. For now, I'll say that after checking out the PT boards for a few minutes, Yuna is probably right about Ivysaur being too gimpable for an MK matchup, although I happen to feel Ivysaur still has the best anti-MK moveset of the three pokemon. I do not possess a mastery of "Pokemon Trainer" to my knowledge, I'm still working on him. Many people here have a different definition of a "broken physics engine" than me - when I say broken, I mean the engine who's flaws contribute more to the game. Melee's physics semi-flaws are an essential part of the Metagame, hence they are "broken." And I don't believe I ever thought Brawl's physics engine helped correct imbalances better than melee's.

Finally, when I was talking about Brawl v. melee characters, I was proposing that Brawl characters would suffer and hold all the advantages of a Brawl character, including the low hit-stun. With Brawl's hitstun affecting Brawl characters, and melee's greater hitstun affecting melee characters, the matchups of Brawl character's v. melee characters would not be so clear, as Bralw characters could then combo while melee characters could not because the Brawl characters would recover faster from hits than melee characters.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Would the melee characters still be able to wavedash and l-cancel, and dash dance, and pivot, and moonwalk, and tech during hitlag, and fall faster, ect?

Because if they did then Marth would still **** with all his traps and brick walls, and Falco could still combo with lasers and you couldn't even powershield to reflect them back.

Oh, and the general idea that people get when you say "broken" is
Too good
or
Really glitchy and faulty.

Since the former didn't apply, I assumed it was the latter. I find more fault with brawl's physics engine than with melee's, so I defended it.

 

[Yuna]

There have been multiple misinterpretations of what I have said, and I think I should correct a few of them.

Or maybe you're just bad at expressing yourself. Don't automatically assume everyone else is in the wrong.

For now, I'll say that after checking out the PT boards for a few minutes, Yuna is probably right about Ivysaur being too gimpable for an MK matchup, although I happen to feel Ivysaur still has the best anti-MK moveset of the three pokemon.

Surprise, surprise. It's not just that he's gimpable, it's that he doesn't really have any good options agains Meta-Knight at all, making him both gimpable and bad against Meta-Knight.

Also "The best out of the three Pokémon" =/= Anything. It's just three mediocre characters who all do badly against Meta-Knight put together. It's far from the neutral matchup you so optimistically think it might be.

I do not possess a mastery of "Pokemon Trainer" to my knowledge, I'm still working on him.

Then why do you say "Not even M2K could take MK to his level with as many mains, secondaries and tertiaries as you have, Yuna!" as if it's relevant (and not a lie as he's done so in the past)? Why must MKs master him to a M2K-level while you don't have to?

Many people here have a different definition of a "broken physics engine" than me - when I say broken, I mean the engine who's flaws contribute more to the game.

And this is our fault how? Stop using the wrong words! And once again, you're wrong. Brawl's engine flat out out-"brokens" Melee's.

Melee's physics semi-flaws are an essential part of the Metagame, hence they are "broken."

How is this even "broken"?! "They're essential parts of the metagame"? That just means these "semi-flaws" are for the most part really useful and have been adapted into the metagame. How is that auto-bad? How are these semi-flaws even flaws for the most part?

And you're still wrong. Brawl has so many more physics engine irregularities currently being used in the metagame it's not even funny.

And I don't believe I ever thought Brawl's physics engine helped correct imbalances better than melee's.

I never said this. I cannot take responsibility for what others have said.

Finally, when I was talking about Brawl v. melee characters, I was proposing that Brawl characters would suffer and hold all the advantages of a Brawl character, including the low hit-stun. With Brawl's hitstun affecting Brawl characters, and melee's greater hitstun affecting melee characters, the matchups of Brawl character's v. melee characters would not be so clear, as Bralw characters could then combo while melee characters could not because the Brawl characters would recover faster from hits than melee characters.

I still don't follow what you're trying to say and what the hell it has to do with anything.

 

[MarKO X]

Can you really do a "Brawl characters vs. Melee characters" battle?

There's sooooo many differing issues between what the characters had to deal with, such as:
-speed
-hitstun
-gravity
-recovery (including the gravity and the autoledge-snappng)
-momentum
-etc.

It's not like Hyper Street Fighter 2, where Capcom combined the fighters from all the SFII games that were ran on the exact same engine. Each Smash game was made on a different engine, so you really can't pit two characters from different games against each other unless you decide on which engine you want to run them on. And beside, all of the characters are different from Melee to Brawl, so who knows? Maybe Brawl Marth might be better on Melee's engine or vice-versa. It's really hard to tell for sure.

 

[Corigames]

There is so much flaming here, and it has nothing to do with me :D

 

[Mega_$m@sh]

Brawl = User Friendly, takes no skill at competitive level

Melee = Semi user friendly, takes much skill at competitive level

Brawl < Melee sadly... but then again - This game is not a traditional fighting game sooooooooooooooo! I don't really care because, it will never compare to [DOA or Virtua Fighter] The Real Deal Fighting Games

Smash Series has NEVER been a balanced fighting game there are:
1 - Items [Right there it's not balanced]
2- Characters with weapons and Characters without weapons [hmm nuff said....lolz]
3 - Random Attacking stages and random moving stages [Like duh - NOT FAIR]

That is All....Thank You!!!!! :B

 

[fkacyan]

Brawl = User Friendly, takes no skill at competitive level

Melee = Semi user friendly, takes much skill at competitive level

Brawl < Melee sadly... but then again - This game is not a traditional fighting game sooooooooooooooo! I don't really care because, it will never compare to [DOA or Virtua Fighter] The Real Deal Fighting Games

Smash Series has NEVER been a balanced fighting game there are:
1 - Items [Right there it's not balanced]
2- Characters with weapons and Characters without weapons [hmm nuff said....lolz]
3 - Random Attacking stages and random moving stages [Like duh - NOT FAIR]

That is All....Thank You!!!!! :B

I love how you mentioned two fighters that aren't actually the pinnacle of balance themselves. You could have brought up Street Fighter or Guilty Gear.

That said, this post is terribly wrong.

1. We don't use items. Why did you bring this up?
2. Slayer has no weapon in GGXXAC and he's the third best character in the game. Eddie has no weapons and he is the best. Traditional fighter that breaks your own rule. Thus Brawl doesn't really need to follow it.
3. Most of these stages are banned, and the ones that aren't have little to no randomness and are easily avoidable / easily learnable.

Stop using this as an excuse for being a scrub at Smash (Because it's pretty obvious that you do).

 

[Radiation]

Alright, here's to hoping my post doesn't drown in the sea of crappiness that overwhelms this thread.

In my opinion, with the exception of a few characters, Brawl is more balanced and easy to get into than Melee. Besides obvious bad matchups (and a few bad characters, heh) I have no problem beating any character with any other character. I'd say 80% of the characters are incredibly close together on any theoretical tier list, with the other characters being semi-broken/broken (they can still be beaten, of course) or mysteriously crappy. (I still love you, Falcon.)

The only characters I get an overwhelming sense of dread playing as (WHY DID I CHOOSE HIM!?) in Brawl are Captain Falcon and Jigglypuff (I suck as PTrainer too though), and it's still fairly possible for me to beat people with him. (Not Metaknight.) In Melee, if I chose anyone other than the better characters, I got a sudden sense of dread that I was going to lose. I'm sure that if I was dedicated to them and practiced a fair amount the feeling would go away, but I main Random. When playing as Kirby, Pichu, Mewtwo, or Ness gives you a feeling of "oh crap," it's not a very good sign of the game's balance. (I felt this way before I even read about any tier list.)

So, the difference between a crappy character and a good character was astronomical in Melee. So, why could a really good Mewtwo beat a great Falco? The answer: ATs and Mindgames. Melee had an incredibly technically deep fighting system that allowed for an incredibly high "skill ceiling." This allowed players to be better than the other nearly without limit (we've practically reached it now), circumventing the differences between the tiers. (please don't point out that said mewtwo played with the falco all the time and that there were other reasons for the victory, it's just an example)

Now, look at Brawl. Brawl has very few useful ATs, and those that are useful are either highly situational or so easy they're not really ATs. For all intents and purposes, Brawl really only has "mindgames." The technical skill ceiling in Brawl is very low, and while increased technical skill is helpful, the lack of hitstun and increased defensive maneuvers greatly diminish its benefit from Melee. Brawl only has mindgames. Brawl is all about mindgames. After you've got the spacing done, then it's just mindgames. While it's possible to be the greatest at mindgames (pretty hard if you ask me), "mindgames" is a really vague term that can't be measured or be gotten better at in any tangible form. Therefore, the skill ceiling on Brawl is and will remain low.

Despite the fact that the tiers are closer together (even between broken and non-broken, really!), the lower skill ceiling lets the players themselves advance less beyond each other. This, in turn, makes the tiers yet again horribly, horribly evident between the bottom and top. The (hopefully large) middle-high tier will still probably be very close and make little difference, but as the players continue to reach the limits of their skill and it becomes harder and harder to become better at the game, tiers will make more and more of a difference, slowly breaking the game.

Of course, Melee's already been broken from the start, but at least it was honest about it.

Anyway, this also explains why on day one (when the skill ceiling seemed very high and improvement was random and drastic and progress had not yet slowed because you were at the bottom) everything might have seemed balanced besides perhaps a few random techniques but as the game progresses people wonder what happened to the "balanced" gameplay that they encountered at E-4-All.

I like both Melee and Brawl equally.

 

[Fawriel]

Anyway, this also explains why on day one (when the skill ceiling seemed very high and improvement was random and drastic and progress had not yet slowed because you were at the bottom) everything might have seemed balanced besides perhaps a few random techniques but as the game progresses people wonder what happened to the "balanced" gameplay that they encountered at E-4-All.

Just to clarify, the demo at E4All was actually different - changes between characters have been made (Mario was considered top tier material) and the physics have been changed... except for Ike and Donkey Kong fans, all of which has been for the worse.

I could go on about how the bottom tier in Brawl has nothing while the top tier has everything, whereas the bottom tier in Melee at least had basic combos and gimping skills and the top tier had basic weaknesses to combos and gimping, but that shouldn't be necessary.


EDIT: By the way, could someone credible please clear up just how useful "waveshining" really is? Because I get the feeling that every single Melee-hater has this engraved in their minds as the end-all gamebreaking technique, and from what I remember hearing about it, I think they're blowing it way out of proportion.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

EDIT: By the way, could someone credible please clear up just how useful "waveshining" really is? Because I get the feeling that every single Melee-hater has this engraved in their minds as the end-all gamebreaking technique, and from what I remember hearing about it, I think they're blowing it way out of proportion.

i'd like to know too actually.

 

[RDK]

Alright, here's to hoping my post doesn't drown in the sea of crappiness that overwhelms this thread.

Thank you for adding to the sea of crappiness.

In my opinion, with the exception of a few characters, Brawl is more balanced and easy to get into than Melee. Besides obvious bad matchups (and a few bad characters, heh) I have no problem beating any character with any other character.

I can't even count how many times this argument has been used. IT'S NOT A VALID ARGUMENT. Personal experience does not pertain to game balance in any way whatsoever. Nobody cares that your Captain Falcon beat your friend's Snake. Nobody.

I'd say 80% of the characters are incredibly close together on any theoretical tier list, with the other characters being semi-broken/broken (they can still be beaten, of course) or mysteriously crappy. (I still love you, Falcon.)

Try 5% being ridiculously broken, 90% being decent, but only really good against other characters in the 90%, and the las 5% being ridiculously sucky against everyone.

The only characters I get an overwhelming sense of dread playing as (WHY DID I CHOOSE HIM!?) in Brawl are Captain Falcon and Jigglypuff (I suck as PTrainer too though), and it's still fairly possible for me to beat people with him. (Not Metaknight.) In Melee, if I chose anyone other than the better characters, I got a sudden sense of dread that I was going to lose.

This means nothing more than that you think you're good at Brawl, and you most likely sucked at Melee. I can safely say you've never been to a notable tournament in your life.

I'm sure that if I was dedicated to them and practiced a fair amount the feeling would go away, but I main Random. When playing as Kirby, Pichu, Mewtwo, or Ness gives you a feeling of "oh crap," it's not a very good sign of the game's balance. (I felt this way before I even read about any tier list.)

Then you're both a casual n00b and a competitive n00b. Try playing the game for a decent amount of time.

So, the difference between a crappy character and a good character was astronomical in Melee. So, why could a really good Mewtwo beat a great Falco? The answer: ATs and Mindgames. Melee had an incredibly technically deep fighting system that allowed for an incredibly high "skill ceiling." This allowed players to be better than the other nearly without limit (we've practically reached it now), circumventing the differences between the tiers. (please don't point out that said mewtwo played with the falco all the time and that there were other reasons for the victory, it's just an example)

The skill gap in Brawl is WAY smaller than the skill gap in Melee. ****ty characters aside.

Since when did AT's stop factoring into balance? Of course Melee is more unbalanced without AT's. We're talking about WITH AT's.

Now, look at Brawl. Brawl has very few useful ATs, and those that are useful are either highly situational or so easy they're not really ATs. For all intents and purposes, Brawl really only has "mindgames." The technical skill ceiling in Brawl is very low, and while increased technical skill is helpful, the lack of hitstun and increased defensive maneuvers greatly diminish its benefit from Melee. Brawl only has mindgames. Brawl is all about mindgames. After you've got the spacing done, then it's just mindgames. While it's possible to be the greatest at mindgames (pretty hard if you ask me), "mindgames" is a really vague term that can't be measured or be gotten better at in any tangible form. Therefore, the skill ceiling on Brawl is and will remain low.

Brawl is all about mindgames because that's all it has. Melee = mindgames + technicality. Brawl = mindgames.

This doesn't mean that Brawl requires better mindgames. In my opinion, and the opinion of a lot of other people, Melee required a higher caliber of mindgames than Brawl due to the added effect of required tech skill.

This just means that Brawl is Melee, minus tech.

Of course, Melee's already been broken from the start, but at least it was honest about it.

Yeah, this explains why Links and other low-tier characters were winning tournaments early in Melee's life.

Anyway, this also explains why on day one (when the skill ceiling seemed very high and improvement was random and drastic and progress had not yet slowed because you were at the bottom) everything might have seemed balanced besides perhaps a few random techniques but as the game progresses people wonder what happened to the "balanced" gameplay that they encountered at E-4-All.

That doesn't explain anything. Brawl was obviously imbalanced from the get-go, even moreso than Melee.

EDIT: By the way, could someone credible please clear up just how useful "waveshining" really is? Because I get the feeling that every single Melee-hater has this engraved in their minds as the end-all gamebreaking technique, and from what I remember hearing about it, I think they're blowing it way out of proportion.

They are blowing it way out of proportion. Waveshining effectively takes a large amount of tech skill, and isn't useful on 100% of the cast. On certain characters you can waveshine them to the edge (if there were walls it would be an indefinite pseudo-infinite, not factoring in hitstun, etc.). While Fox's shine has way too much hitstun and you can wavedash right out of it, it's far from being broken.

 

[Yuna]

Smash Series has NEVER been a balanced fighting game there are:

What Sakurai intended is inconsequential.

1 - Items [Right there it's not balanced]
2- Characters with weapons and Characters without weapons [hmm nuff said....lolz]
3 - Random Attacking stages and random moving stages [Like duh - NOT FAIR

You do realize that many traditional fighters feature both characters with and without weapons, right? I can name them but it'd be pretty much every single popular Competitive series currently out on the market.

In my opinion <snip> I have no problem beating any character with any other character.

I stopped reading after this.

 

[gantrain05]

Except L-canceling really wouldn't do much for him, and he'd still get wrecked by Falco's laser camping.

If he falls faster maybe, but he doesn't move fast enough in the air to combo effectively, and reaching the ground to dash in between hits would require him to be a fast faller.

Oh yeah, he'd be a feather weight Marth with no spike, but a much better recovery...and no grab combos.

But his fast kill moves would be pretty beast.


Meh, I don't think he could top Marth, Fox, Falco, or Shiek, but he could definately pull 5th.

And Snake would be so punishable it's not even funny. Marth would completely destroy him! Out ranging f-tilt and up tilt. Spiking him through his Cypher. Comboing him like he combos Ganondorf! 7-3 easy.

honestly MK vs almost any melee character with melee physics would get his *** stomped, even vs ganon, or capn falcon, or dr mario lol.

 

[Yuna]

honestly MK vs almost any melee character with melee physics would get his *** stomped, even vs ganon, or capn falcon, or dr mario lol.

Since when are any of those three characters bad?

 

[RDK]

honestly MK vs almost any melee character with melee physics would get his *** stomped, even vs ganon, or capn falcon, or dr mario lol.

All three of those characters are middle tier.

 

[Corigames]

While I do not agree with Radiation's opinion, I do agree with a lot of what he said. Well spoken.

 

[gantrain05]

All three of those characters are middle tier.

yes, im aware of that lol. im just saying, that MK wouldn't really be "godlike" in the melee universe, and that if he was he'd be getting beat alot more than he is now in brawl. and theres no denying ganon, falcon, or dr. marios sexiness in melee.

 

[Fletch]

By the way, could someone credible please clear up just how useful "waveshining" really is? Because I get the feeling that every single Melee-hater has this engraved in their minds as the end-all gamebreaking technique, and from what I remember hearing about it, I think they're blowing it way out of proportion.

It really only works on a couple of characters, and is just like it sounds... You simply Shine-->Wavedash and repeat. Basically it's not horribly difficult to use on Link and Peach, and can also be done on a couple more characters (Falcon and Ganon come to mind) but requires about a perfect wavedash each time. Thus unless you're Silent Wolf, it's not all that great... I can only consistently do it on Peach and Link myself, and still don't use it all the time. Fox has lots of other things that make him more "broken" as it commonly termed.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Yuna - I lack oratory skills. Fine.

PT - Looked into Ivysaur some more. Primary tools against MK are neutral b and Uair. Ivysaur's dash attack can consistently out-prioritize MK's tornado.

Everyone - While waveshining was possibly the greatest concern of anti-melee people, certain chains were also annoying. For example, as a melee Pika main, I had a lot of trouble with a Captain Falcon chain that was so serious, I ended up needing to counter the character with Marth to throw off his chain timing. Also, MK with a melee physics engine would be even faser, probably have a chain grab, and would combo everything. Think melee Jiggs with larger disjointed hitboxs, and you have a rough (not perfect) idea of what MK would look like in melee.

 

[IrArby]

Another point to clear the supposed brokeness of Fox's waveshine. I think alot of people (noobs) are assuming that you'd waveshine them across the whole stage then shinespike. Thats just wrong. Most Fox's go for the Grab>Uthrow>Uair. If done perfectly, the Fox gets an almost guaranteed 20% (off the top of my head % don't quote me on it). Fox has better things to do out of waveshine besides waveshining again.

Snake in a Melee engine couldn't combo. D3 would be a combo magnet like Bowser. Theres a few others but I'd really just love to see Snake, MK, or R.O.B. get comboed to death in Melee.

 

[Fletch]

Another point to clear the supposed brokeness of Fox's waveshine. I think alot of people (noobs) are assuming that you'd waveshine them across the whole stage then shinespike. Thats just wrong. Most Fox's go for the Grab>Uthrow>Uair. If done perfectly, the Fox gets an almost guaranteed 20% (off the top of my head % don't quote me on it). Fox has better things to do out of waveshine besides waveshining again.

Yep, usually Waveshine->USmash or Waveshine->Grab->UAir are better bets than trying to infinite waveshine.

 

[thumbswayup]

I love waveshining.

 

[Samochan]

Another point to clear the supposed brokeness of Fox's waveshine. I think alot of people (noobs) are assuming that you'd waveshine them across the whole stage then shinespike. Thats just wrong. Most Fox's go for the Grab>Uthrow>Uair. If done perfectly, the Fox gets an almost guaranteed 20% (off the top of my head % don't quote me on it). Fox has better things to do out of waveshine besides waveshining again.

Not forgetting the shinespike is hard to actually do from waveshine if your opponent knows how to di against so they grab the ledge, slippery chars are in more danger however. On other stages besides FD you can avoid getting waveshined across stage most of the time if you use platforms. Not forgetting waveshine, like every other hit, can be DI'ed and smash DI'ed and other chars than the most easily waveshined ones can escape even after one shine. Heck, waveshine can be interrupted with some lucky random smash di or crouch canceling effect, resulting in getting out of the hitstun earlier, kinda like cc'ing fox's upsmash at 160% and barely hitting the top of the screen. And if fox wants to build up damage, drillshine and the mentioned uthrow uair stuff does the job way better than waveshine (not like ntsc fox needs to build up much damage anyway).

I think some people have been watching too much shined blind, lol.

 

[Yuna]

You can even crouch-cancel the shine. I've done it on multiple occasions into a grab (into a chaingrab) or a Dsmash (as Peach). I still don't know how I do it but it's funny every time.

 

[Grunt]

Of course, Melee's already been broken from the start, but at least it was honest about it.

Link and Ganon would like to speak to you.

 

[Samochan]

You can even crouch-cancel the shine. I've done it on multiple occasions into a grab (into a chaingrab) or a Dsmash (as Peach). I still don't know how I do it but it's funny every time.

Regular cc only affects how far you go from the shine, but some other way of doing it sends you normal distance but reduces your stuntime to barely nothing. There's a video of sheik doing it on tube, and I might also have one on internet. It might be that you'd need to do so during the hitstun from the shine as it touches you, kinda like using cc against fox's upsmash the second he uses it.

 

[Corigames]

That would be SMASH DI. It's very, very helpful.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I usually clank the shine with Sheik's tilts.

...

What? It works.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Corigames]

I CLANK THE SHINE WITH MY FISTS!!!
FALCON PUNCH!!!!!!!!

But, yeah, the waveshine isn't the end-all-be-all of Melee. People aren't dumb.

 

[Coraircate]

I believe that Brawl is better balanced than Melee. You'll probably hate me for my opinion, but it seems to me that they improved upon several noticeable things. The brawling is slower paced, so you can see your deaths in full tone. Several abilities have changed, and characters have either demoted or improved to make things slightly more even.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Corey do you want some?

 

[Corigames]

I do disagree with your opinion. At least, though, you understand grammar and spelling, so I'm not going to hate you.

However, you a treading a fine lone by being a new comer, liking Brawl openly, and saying such risky things as, "it's more balanced."

Edit:
I see you used google search for Falcon Punch too. I decided not to use the front page though >_>

 

[Fawriel]

I believe that Brawl is better balanced than Melee. You'll probably hate me for my opinion, but it seems to me that they improved upon several noticeable things. The brawling is slower paced, so you can see your deaths in full tone. Several abilities have changed, and characters have either demoted or improved to make things slightly more even.

This is the best definition of balance I have ever seen in my life.

 

[Yuna]

I believe that Brawl is better balanced than Melee. You'll probably hate me for my opinion, but it seems to me that they improved upon several noticeable things. The brawling is slower paced, so you can see your deaths in full tone. Several abilities have changed, and characters have either demoted or improved to make things slightly more even.

"So you can see your deaths in full tone" doesn't make sense and the rest are sweeping statements without any actual arguments to back them up.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Edit:
I see you used google search for Falcon Punch too. I decided not to use the front page though >_>

It was on the second page for me O_o

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I do disagree with your opinion. At least, though, you understand grammar and spelling, so I'm not going to hate you.

However, you a treading a fine lone by being a new comer, liking Brawl openly, and saying such risky things as, "it's more balanced."

Edit:
I see you used google search for Falcon Punch too. I decided not to use the front page though >_>

The infamous "see the underlined text" bit.

Is it possible Coreygames has been nerfed?

O.O;

Smooth Criminal

 

[Corigames]

I guess some other people jumped on you for me. Although, they are prowling on arguments that I wouldn't have focused much on. I would have gone straight for the abilities changed, demotes and promotes, and the vague improvements.

But, it looks like they're out for blood. Your response?

The infamous "see the underlined text" bit.

Is it possible Coreygames has been nerfed?

O.O;

Smooth Criminal

Hey, I'm just glad to see someone with a little humility, care for the words he says, and is still a newby. It's quite... refreshing. Yes, I disagree, but he has yet to get into his argument though, so there is still plenty of opportunity :D

I haven't been nerfed yet. That's what mods do to me.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

>_______>

****.

Smooth Criminal