Brawl Information Compendium & Social

[Sharky]

more damage/knockback, range stays the same

 

[da K.I.D.]

i could have sworn they get slightly more range too.

 

[Browny]

-__________________-

No, they dont

 

[uhmuzing]

Is there a thread that contains all of the frame data for universal actions like dashing, shielding, airdodging, jumping, etc.?

no you cannot thats what makes marths upb and MKs grounded SL scary

Awesome. That's what I hoped...... er, I mean thought.

 

[Sharky]

Most of those actions are actually different for each character, other than shielding (yoshi is the only character with different data for this).

 

[uhmuzing]

Most of those actions are actually different for each character, other than shielding (yoshi is the only character with different data for this).

I assumed as much, but it'd still be nice to have a single collection of all that data.

I could've sworn there was a thread containing some of that kind of stuff, but I don't know where it is.

 

[VK-137]

What causes the instant stage kill during Frigate's transformation? Would it be possible to try and force this during a match?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

What causes the instant stage kill during Frigate's transformation? Would it be possible to try and force this during a match?

It's getting caught by the end of the stage that goes upwards, which drags you off the upper blastzone.

I suppose if you get them roughly in the area it passes through, it'd catch them and kill them, but it's by no means a reliable way of beating people. Go ahead and prove me wrong if you can.

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK9fOHNSDpU

I dont know if this counts as proof... but its still a good watch

 

[teluoborg]

Is there a thread that contains all of the frame data for universal actions like dashing, shielding, airdodging, jumping, etc.?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225510
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9378580#post9378580

 

[Jane]

IS THERE A THREAD FOR BOOST GRABBING/PIVOT BOOST GRABBING?


or can someone give me a very specific guide on how to do them?

 

[Kitamerby]

It's the same as a DACUS, just with a grab or pivot grab. You dash, then C-stick down, then either tap Z, or back and Z.

 

[Yikarur]

It's the same as a DACUS, just with a grab or pivot grab. You dash, then C-stick down, then either tap Z, or back and Z.

you should use the shield button instead of Z.

 

[Jane]

Thats what confuses me, because a friend told me that it has to be with Z, otherwise youre not cancelling the dash attack, youre just grabbing with R + attack button.

Also does it have to be with down on the c stick? Theoredically you should be able to do it with any c stick input right?

 

[Yikarur]

I tell you about a few ingame physics

First why you have to C-stick down:

C-Stick is a shortcut for down + Attack for one frame, if you press the c-stick in a direction you do direction + attack for EXACTLY one frame.

You initial dash can be cancelled by upsmash (attack + up aka C-Stick up.) and fsmash in either direction (C-Stick sidewards)
If you dash and want to dash attack you do fsmash most of the time because the game is programmed this way (sothat you don't need to be frame perfect for smashes with Controlstick)

Well to dash attack right after the dash you have to dash and put your stick back to neutral position + A. (if you hold, like I said, you fsmash in the direction)
this is why the C-Stick is used
the C-Stick has priority over controlstick, so if you put the C-stick down you sidewards input is ignored for one frame and you do a dash attack instead of fsmash.

I hope you understand me xD

why you have to use Shield instead of Grab Button:

like I explained before C-Stick + Down (that you use to dash attack) is a short cut for Direction + Attack for one frame. Grab is a shortcut for Shield + Attack in one frame (Shield lasts as long as you hold the button, but attack only in one frame)

If you press C-Stick down in let's say frame 1 and press grab in frame 2 the game read it as following:
Frame 1: Down + Attack
Frame 2: Shield + Attack
The Game now things you hold the "attack" button because you didn't release the button in at least one frame.

like I said before the game has enough space for specific actions to occur (like my fsmash example, you don't have to be frame perfect to grab (Shield + Attack).
because your dash attack can be cancelled into a grab you can press C-Stick down (down+Attack) and Shield to Grab because the game things "Attack + Shield = Grab" and you have a 3 frame time window to so.

@.@ I hope you understand me.

tl/to much theorie;dr:

C-Stick down is necessary because your dash attack get cancelled by fsmash or upsmash if you use other directions on the C-Stick
You use Shield because it gives you one frame extra time.

 

[Jane]

thanks for your explanation, but just a couple questions,

1. c stick left or right will only cancel into a fsmash if you do it like RIGHT after you initiate a dash. but if you wait even half a second, itll do a dash attack. so what would be the problem with using side c stick if you just wait a tiny little bit to dash attack instead of fsmash?


2. is there a way to tell the difference between a boost pivot grab and just a pivot grab that got a lot of slide??

 

[Kitamerby]

thanks for your explanation, but just a couple questions,

1. c stick left or right will only cancel into a fsmash if you do it like RIGHT after you initiate a dash. but if you wait even half a second, itll do a dash attack. so what would be the problem with using side c stick if you just wait a tiny little bit to dash attack instead of fsmash?

Because C-stick down will always be a dash attack no matter what? If you really wanted to, you can wait until you're in a full sprint and use A to use the dash attack. It really doesn't matter how you do the commands, as long as the game recognizes them. I could set D-pad up to attack, then dash, press d-pad up, and then in a few frames I'd tap backwards+L+A and it'd still register as a boost pivot grab. C-stick down is just the easiest way to do it.

2. is there a way to tell the difference between a boost pivot grab and just a pivot grab that got a lot of slide??

Depends on the character. For Falco? Hell yes. For Fox? Probably not. Fox is actually better off just doing a running pivot grab, actually.

 

[Yikarur]

C-stick down is just the easiest and fastest way to do it.

fixed with C-Stick down you can dash attack instantly after you input the dahs, that why it's called "instant dash attack"

 

[Jane]

ok, and my final question regarding boost pivot grabbing,

youll know you did a pivot boost grab for sure if you attempt to do one RIGHT after you initiate a dash and you get a long slide right?

you could NEVER get a lot of slide if you only pivot grabbed, correct? (remember im talking about right after the beginning of a dash)


sorry if i worded this weirdly, i swear i rewrote it like 3 times xD

 

[Kitamerby]

Depends on the character.

Some characters, like Lucario get almost no slide at all with a boost pivot grab, which makes it virtually useless for them.

Others, like Fox, get MORE distance out of a regular pivot grab than out of a boosted one.

Each character is different.

 

[Sharky]

why does pressing z sometimes produce a shield?

 

[Jane]

^Yikarur just explained that in his long post

Depends on the character.

Some characters, like Lucario get almost no slide at all with a boost pivot grab, which makes it virtually useless for them.

Others, like Fox, get MORE distance out of a regular pivot grab than out of a boosted one.

Each character is different.

ok ok, let me rephrase that then, for FALCO, you know its a pivot boost grab if you get a long slide right out of a dash?

 

[Sharky]

^I'm not inquiring about boost pivot grabs, I'm just saying in general. during standing cg's for example.

edit: pika pikapika pikapika! lol too lazy to post this on your profile so namesearch away, read the next couple posts for your cg problems lol.

 

[Kitamerby]

ok ok, let me rephrase that then, for FALCO, you know its a pivot boost grab if you get a long slide right out of a dash?

For Falco? Definitely. His regular sliding pivot grab doesn't go very far at all. His Boost Pivot Grab though goes really far.

^I'm not inquiring about boost pivot grabs, I'm just saying in general. during standing cg's for example.

It means you're holding the button too long during a buffer. To buffer a grab, you need to basically flick the z button.

 

[Yikarur]

why does pressing z sometimes produce a shield?

Z is a shortcut for Shield + Attack, Shield lasts as long as you hold the button, attack only for one frame. So if you hold the button you shield.
When you try to grab after lag you can end up in your shield again.
this is because of brawls buffering system.
if you press Grab in the buffering frames and let down of grab at the end of the lag you grab BUT if you hold shield at the and of lag your buffering input gets overwritten by the input you're holding and you shield instead.

 

[Jane]

thanks very much to yikarur and kitamerby! you guys basically cleared all my questions concerning the boost grab and i feel much better now. <33

 

[da K.I.D.]

now I have a question,

i didnt know you could boost grab without pivoting. does it have any practical use for any character?

 

[NickRiddle]

now I have a question,

i didnt know you could boost grab without pivoting. does it have any practical use for any character?

Snake has a GR boost-grab CG on Falco.
XD

 

[Kitamerby]

now I have a question,

i didnt know you could boost grab without pivoting. does it have any practical use for any character?

Snake can tech chase people who roll away from his dthrow with a boost grab. I think only Zelda and Snake himself roll too far.

Wario's also goes really far.

 

[culexus・wau]

Can someone tell me a method of B-sticking neutral B moves with the regular control scheme [C-stick to smashes].?

B-sticking as in, shifting your momentum backwards without turning around. IE not a B-reversal.

I can do Forward, smash back, B , Forward but that produces only a small boost compared to the B-sticked version.

I can do the manual B-sticking with side special easy but since you can't get the C-stick to read the neutral A/B input in the air..


I really don't wanna switch to Special stick because of loss of SDI but I want to add the back bouncing but still facing my opponent ASC into my game.

and I guess the back bouncing one with snake 'nade pull too <<...

 

[Kitamerby]

I told you, Flamey, you can't abuse the c-stick thing with neutral specials. You have to do it manually. Listen for once, sheesh.

 

[culexus・wau]

I'm looking if someone can give me a way to do it with neutral specials and/or help out.


You just want me to play touhou anyway. >(

 

[teluoborg]

Maybe you could set a unused shoulder button to special so that you could combine it with immediate forward on C-stick to wavebounce, but I'm not sure if it's gonna help at all.

And you should totally play Touhou.

 

[Kitamerby]

I'm looking if someone can give me a way to do it with neutral specials and/or help out.

You can't. If you're having that many problems, change your controls or something. You said you don't use L for anything, right? Try mapping that to specials.

You just want me to play touhou anyway. >(

That's something I never expected to hear from you, considering you're the one who got me into it to begin with.

And you should totally play Touhou.

He does play touhou. He's just pissed he can't touch my Suika despite playing the game for around a year longer than I have.

 

[Enzo]

what button is use to break out of a grab faster and also what does planking mean :/

 

[Sharky]

mash every button and rotate the control stick for best results breaking out of a grab.

planking is holding/staying on/near/under the ledge when you have a lead in a game to prevent the opponent from hitting you, commonly done with MK.

 

[Enzo]

ok thanks
10 char

 

[Chsal]

Question : Whats with the no wireless controllers rule? I don't get why Wiimotes are banned.

 

[Kitamerby]

Question : Whats with the no wireless controllers rule? I don't get why Wiimotes are banned.

They're only banned at MLG hosted events.

Bluetooth devices can interfere with the wiimote's signal.

 

[VK-137]

Does using an attack button instead of grab make the timing less strict when you dacus/dacit etc? I know it's the only way to do sheik's (well, MUCH easier at least). Would that extend to other characters as well?