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Brawl+ Faq

MuBa

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,958
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Dragon Kick you into the Milky Way!
I am happy to see more and more people are gaining interest in Brawl+

Wish I could contribute but I'm soooo freaking busy with Med School it's ******** =/

P.S. - For all of you who haven't, please join the Brawl+ Brigade Social Group!
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
If they had a whole board for discussing and modifying Nintendo's system without permission, especially with their new User Agreement, Nintendo could probably sue or bring up legal matters... which is not wanted.
I'm pretty sure that installing homebrew and not using it for illegal mods is perfectly legal. The only reason Nintendo is cracking down on homebrew is because there are people using it to download their emulated games for free as well as other things such as that. So at worst, Nintendo would look down on it, but I very, very much doubt that they would have some sort of legal precedent to try and shut down the forum. If there are several large websites up that are dedicated to hacking cell phones and they aren't being slammed by the phone companies, I'm fairly certain that Nintendo wouldn't do anything.
 

Wumbo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
21
Nope

Since Brawl+ has hitstun, I'm going to assume Metaknight is over 9000 times more broken?
im gonna take a bit to explain cuz i dont think you realize what combo potential does to brawl.

He is still arguably the best, but the gap between him and other characters has drastically changed. Since he could combo in vanilla brawl, he is more versatile with his combos now in B+.

Other characters now have great combos and some characters like Fox and Lucario feel like better comboers to me.

Right now Metaknight's metagame has increased since B+ but not by very much. (it was already high though)

Captain falcons metagame has increased IMMENSLY along with tons of other characters. You dont have to relearn what youve learned about your character but i guarantee there is more to learn to expand upon your metagame.

If it turns out he still is the best, at least we wont ban him, he will just get the nerf stick which is finally in the hands of the players!
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
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Mar 14, 2008
Messages
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Playing Melee
Glad you enjoy it! (:

Also I forgot to address the fact that we can't have a hacking subforum for legal reasons. From what I've gathered from the podcast, MLG now owns SWF, and is obviously a for-profit company. If they had a whole board for discussing and modifying Nintendo's system without permission, especially with their new User Agreement, Nintendo could probably sue or bring up legal matters... which is not wanted. Haha. XD
I see why they can't have a separate forum but Idk why they can't sticky one thread
 

Makkun

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
407
Location
Ypsilanti, MI
I'm pretty sure that installing homebrew and not using it for illegal mods is perfectly legal. The only reason Nintendo is cracking down on homebrew is because there are people using it to download their emulated games for free as well as other things such as that. So at worst, Nintendo would look down on it, but I very, very much doubt that they would have some sort of legal precedent to try and shut down the forum. If there are several large websites up that are dedicated to hacking cell phones and they aren't being slammed by the phone companies, I'm fairly certain that Nintendo wouldn't do anything.
That is true. You should talk to... I believe it was SamuraiPanda? I couldn't distinguish between voices other than yours on the latest podcast, where it was discussed, so it might have been someone else who was talking about it.
 

GwJ

Smash Hero
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Pennsylvania
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Baghul
I have a question. I want to use Brawl+, but I don't have an SD card that I can ALWAYS have in my Wii. Are the files stored in the Wii or do I need the SD card in there while playing?
 

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
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Cleveland, Ohio
I have a question. I want to use Brawl+, but I don't have an SD card that I can ALWAYS have in my Wii. Are the files stored in the Wii or do I need the SD card in there while playing?
You'll need the SD Card in there every time, as it's where the applications are stored and where the HBC looks for the applications and how Gecko OS loads up the codes etc.
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
3,577
Location
Playing melee and smash ultimate
I have a question. I want to use Brawl+, but I don't have an SD card that I can ALWAYS have in my Wii. Are the files stored in the Wii or do I need the SD card in there while playing?
Well... yes and no. You need the sd card to boot up the game every single time, but it does not need to remain in the system after the game has already loaded.

have you guys tried to add djc to ness lucas and yoshi yet?
No, and we're still not even sure if we're going to.
 

thesage

Smash Hero
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Don't add djc to Ness. It nerfs his recovery to much. Besides he already has dair to pkt2 at low percents, which is nice enough already (from what I've heard). His only usuable aerials would be bair, nair and fair, uair is too slow now, but it's a kill move so that ok.

Lucas would benefit somewhat from it, since his recovery is good enough without his dj. He might get djc uair combos similar to Ness in melee, his fair/nair could work similar to m2's djc fair/nair. Not sure if djc bair/dair would work well.

To see what characters "should" be able to djc, test to see if they can djc item throw. I know Ness can in regular brawl. This suggests that djc was taken out of the game.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
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Playing Melee
Don't add djc to Ness. It nerfs his recovery to much. Besides he already has dair to pkt2 at low percents, which is nice enough already (from what I've heard). His only usuable aerials would be bair, nair and fair, uair is too slow now, but it's a kill move so that ok.

Lucas would benefit somewhat from it, since his recovery is good enough without his dj. He might get djc uair combos similar to Ness in melee, his fair/nair could work similar to m2's djc fair/nair. Not sure if djc bair/dair would work well.

To see what characters "should" be able to djc, test to see if they can djc item throw. I know Ness can in regular brawl. This suggests that djc was taken out of the game.
If you think djc will ruin his recovery than I think you don't know what djc is or you don't know how to use it in a way so that it doesn't affect recovery. Idk but from what I see in Ness it may make him OP but I think Yoshi would benefit from it.
 

storm92

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
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SoCal
If you think djc will ruin his recovery than I think you don't know what djc is or you don't know how to use it in a way so that it doesn't affect recovery. Idk but from what I see in Ness it may make him OP but I think Yoshi would benefit from it.
Yeah, what kupo said. DJC doesn't affect recovery...

Also, the banner makes me =D.
 

thesage

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Ness really needs rising aerials in his recovery and ledgegame. Dj airdodge is also nice. DjC removes that. DjC also increases the risk that he could get knocked off the ledge without his double jump (bad situation). Unless you speed up Ness' uair and reduce it's knockback so that it's not a kill move and make it a combo move, it's totally useless for him. He could gain jab locks similar to Peach with his fair, but his jab and d-tilt already lock so it's kinda pointless.

DjC nair would do less then a double sh nair does in vanilla brawl. DjC fair could set up into combos easily, but his fair is good enough as it is. It is also already easy to hit with his bair too lol. Ness doesn't need any buffs to be a good character in brawl +. He is already massively broken with dair -> pkt2 lol.

Trust me I know what djc is lol. One of the most satisfying things in life is 0-death'ing a fast faller in melee with Ness.

I know nothing about Yoshi so can't really comment on him =/.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
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Ness really needs rising aerials in his recovery and ledgegame. Dj airdodge is also nice. DjC removes that. Unless you speed up Ness' uair and reduce it's knockback so that it's not a kill move, it's totally useless for him. He could gain jab locks similar to Peach with his fair, but his jab and d-tilt already lock.

Trust I know what djc is lol. One of the most satisfying things in life is 0-death'ing a fast faller in melee with Ness.
I find it hard to believe you were a ness main who used djc with that response. For one thing, MAD was the reason you couldnt do rising air dodges no djc. Secondly, its only if you input the aerial really close to the jump does it cancel but a possibility is that if you hold jump while doing the aerial during the initial dj then it will cancel.
 

thesage

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I find it hard to believe you were a ness main who used djc with that response. For one thing, MAD was the reason you couldnt do rising air dodges no djc.
I don't know how it would work in brawl+ if BAD would still be counted as using a move to cancel momentum.

Secondly, its only if you input the aerial really close to the jump does it cancel but a possibility is that if you hold jump while doing the aerial during the initial dj then it will cancel.
Actually it varies from character to character how large the window was (in melee) but really was important as you would have to kinda do a swing jump in order to do an aerial onto the stage with Ness (it was possible to do an instant aerial with him, but you had to be mad technical). Ness had a pretty large window in melee and the boost he gets to how much distance he goes for his recovery when he uses dj -> immediate fair is important.

DjC, while being a great thing, is a risky move. Notice in melee that despite 4 people having djc, 3 of them were in bottom tier while the 4th hardly used hers (well I use Peach's djc, but I'm weird lol).
 

kupo15

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I don't know how it would work in brawl+ if BAD would still be counted as using a move to cancel momentum.



Actually it varies from character to character how large the window was (in melee) but really was important as you would have to kinda do a swing jump in order to do an aerial onto the stage with Ness (it was possible to do an instant aerial with him, but you had to be mad technical). Ness had a pretty large window in melee and the boost he gets to how much distance he goes for his recovery when he uses dj -> immediate fair is important.

DjC, while being a great thing, is a risky move. Notice in melee that despite 4 people having djc, 3 of them were in bottom tier while the 4th hardly used hers (well I use Peach's djc, but I'm weird lol).
If they didn't have their djc, they would be even lower tier.
 

thesage

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If they didn't have their djc, they would be even lower tier.
Not really lol, M2 would still be above pichu and Kirby. Ness would still be above Bowser and Yoshi. Ness could actually gain stuff from the removal of djc lol. He would get the uair -> uair combo he can do in vanilla brawl lol.
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
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I'm actually trying this all out. To bad I have to use my PC... :ugh:
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
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Not really lol, M2 would still be above pichu and Kirby. Ness would still be above Bowser and Yoshi. Ness could actually gain stuff from the removal of djc lol. He would get the uair -> uair combo he can do in vanilla brawl lol.
DJC does not hurt those characters and I don't see why you think it does
 

thesage

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DJC does not hurt those characters and I don't see why you think it does
Well look at the things Ness would be able to do. Rising ledge attacks with fair = only marth and Roy can hit me from the ledge. Rising dair/nair buffs his edgeguarding immensely. He gets a whole different set of combos with his uair (djc uair combos can only be done proficiently by like 6 people anyways lol) that are much easier to do. He can still swingjump and it's even better since he float away to safety. I do love djc since it's the only reason I play Ness in melee, but he would have completely different options without them. All in all he'd be the same thing. In 64 he'd be pretty bad without it. In brawl he'd get hurt even more with it. One of the main things holding him back in vanilla brawl is that his recovery is bad. Further nerfing it isn't going to help at all.

M2 would be absolute balls without djc, but pichu and Kirby (well maybe not pichu) are still worse than him.

I don't know anything about everybody's favorite awkward vegatable, but I guess he'd suck without it.

Peach would get a boost to everything since she could now do ledge attacks and edgeguard with her aerials with dj (her edgeguard game is pretty good already though). She still has fc which is better than djc in almost every aspect. She would get a weird swing jump without her momentum canceling.

Anyways, talking about hypothetical situations in melee isn't what we should be discussing. In brawl, Ness would be bad with DjC. Lucas would probably be buffed. I don't know about Yoshi.
 

kupo15

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Well look at the things Ness would be able to do. Rising ledge attacks with fair = only marth and Roy can hit me from the ledge. Rising dair/nair buffs his edgeguarding immensely. He gets a whole different set of combos with his uair (djc uair combos can only be done proficiently by like 6 people anyways lol) that are much easier to do. He can still swingjump and it's even better since he float away to safety. I do love djc since it's the only reason I play Ness in melee, but he would have completely different options without them. All in all he'd be the same thing. In 64 he'd be pretty bad without it. In brawl he'd get hurt even more with it. One of the main things holding him back in vanilla brawl is that his recovery is bad. Further nerfing it isn't going to help at all.

M2 would be absolute balls without djc, but pichu and Kirby (well maybe not pichu) are still worse than him.

I don't know anything about everybody's favorite awkward vegatable, but I guess he'd suck without it.

Peach would get a boost to everything since she could now do ledge attacks and edgeguard with her aerials with dj (her edgeguard game is pretty good already though). She still has fc which is better than djc in almost every aspect. She would get a weird swing jump without her momentum canceling.

Anyways, talking about hypothetical situations in melee isn't what we should be discussing. In brawl, Ness would be bad with DjC. Lucas would probably be buffed. I don't know about Yoshi.
Dude, we can implement a feature for holding jump down to DJC or something that way it doesn't affect recovery...:urg:
 

Enoc.gt

Smash Apprentice
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We have to remember that B+ isnt Melee 2.0 and we cant keep trying to bring back all the moves from previous games, but maybe find new ones.
 

Team Giza

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
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San Diego, CA
We have to remember that B+ isnt Melee 2.0 and we cant keep trying to bring back all the moves from previous games, but maybe find new ones.
I think the double jump cancel is an unique case especially if it is put into the game so it is completely controllable. It would give Yoshi and Ness some of their ssb64 and melee tactics back while still having them keep all of their new brawl tactics. Its simply a character specific buff that I think would be great for them.

It also makes Ness and Lucas have more differences.
 

thesage

Smash Hero
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To see which character should have djc, find out which ones can djc item throw.

Lucas would benefit from djc'ing more than Ness IMO...
 

Makkun

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
407
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Ypsilanti, MI
Makkun talks alot about the podcast.. how can i listen? o.o
The Podcast thread is stickied. :p

Also, does anyone else use the Wii TCP Loader? I'm going to test using this with GeckoOS... that way people could launch Brawl+ even if they don't have an SD card.

Off-topic: Yesterday I was thinking, would it be possible for a new version of GeckoOS to have an option to use extra SD card memory as virtual memory? Or maybe a new version of USB Gecko could have a RAM expansion on it. Of course, this would be for the purpose of increasing the code line limit.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
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The Podcast thread is stickied. :p

Also, does anyone else use the Wii TCP Loader? I'm going to test using this with GeckoOS... that way people could launch Brawl+ even if they don't have an SD card.

Off-topic: Yesterday I was thinking, would it be possible for a new version of GeckoOS to have an option to use extra SD card memory as virtual memory? Or maybe a new version of USB Gecko could have a RAM expansion on it. Of course, this would be for the purpose of increasing the code line limit.
The problem with the SD for space is that not everyone has an extra SD card and if its hard to get ppl to hack their wii's and such it would be even harder if you couldn't host a b+ tourney with the default amount of code lines you can use. Its another variable to make things difficult
 

Revven

FrankerZ
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Off-topic: Yesterday I was thinking, would it be possible for a new version of GeckoOS to have an option to use extra SD card memory as virtual memory? Or maybe a new version of USB Gecko could have a RAM expansion on it. Of course, this would be for the purpose of increasing the code line limit.
It'd be too slow to use. (That's what the creator [Nuke] of the USB Gecko said anyway).

We don't need to have more code space when Gecko 2.0 comes out and we can patch lines to unused memory (255 patches) and there seems to be plenty space for that in Brawl. This, ALSO, is of course temporary and will require a second file (a .gpf) which will then make Brawl+ require two files in order to experience the full game (.gct for codes and .gpf for patches).
 
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