Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Hello,

What is an earthbounder?

Take care,

AmishTycoon

that would be ness or lucas

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^ a earthbounder means ness/lucas this is b/c the name of the game they come from in america is called earthbound


sth answered before i did sorry for now usless post

 

[Colbert]

Fast, yes. Effective, yes. I wouldn't say hard to predict though. He slowly tosses a banana behind him, and picks it up, I 'm gonna know what he'll do next.

You know exactly what he'll do next, eh? He can use his high priority monkey flip/ kick, do a z drop aerial, do a forward glide toss, do a retreating glide toss, harrass with peanuts, do an fsmash, do a fatalities fake, etc. Congratulations on playing extremely horrible opponents.... you even admitted that when you play Diddy's they rarely use bananas.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

YOU insisted, even after being told that you were wrong that Din's fire would not explode if you interrupted Zelda.

DanGR isisted that ganondorf not only beat zelda... but he beat her becuase he could outcamp her...

<_<

seriously... you guys have no idea what the hell you are talking about... and, you also provided NO reason why the earthbounders should have an advantage... not only this, but you don't play as Zelda OR an earthbounder... you really have no knowledge of this matchup at all, you just argue for the sake of arguing... so just shut up if you don't know what you are talking about.

Kasai pretty much covered it because you're so hung up on thinking im wrong because of a little thing. Fact is, that didn't invalidate my point. I'm not going to argue the ROB matchup, so drop it.

Thing is:

I do know about the matchup. I do use Ness. To sum it up, I do know what Im talking about.
Don't tell me to shut up.

The only thing stopping me from arguing is how god**** busy I am. At this moment, I'm getting sprites for JonBeBonanza for the Combo Video Awards thread. I'm also late at making the Breakfast Club's first online tourney. After that, I have two debates going on that im far behind on. Lucario and wario need my attention. After this, I'm giving my input on Falco's matchups for Blistering Speed.

Not to mention I've yet to update the Oil Panic guide.

So really, I want to, and I'm capable of doing it, but I'm far behind and I shouldnt be pushing for any matchups. While Zelda mains have an inflated opinion and think that it should be even, I'm pretty sure most earthbound users think they have the advantage.

If someone wants to debate with you, then fine, but you've been stating it to be neutral for a long time. I think you were saying this as far back as the wario vs yoshi bit. It's been getting on my nerves that you just dont cool down about it.

 

[Red.Tide]

I'll repeat myself, why does Kirby have a bad matchup against Falco, and neutral against Wolf and Fox?

Kirby can do grab combos on all three of them, up to 51%.
Kirby outprioritizes Falco and Fox, at least, in the air.
Kirby's hammer has more reach than just about anything of theirs, except Falco's down b
Kirby can duck under Fox and Falco's lasers, or steal them for the occasional annoying blast. His laser lock works better than Falco's.
Kirby is nigh impossible to spike because of his maneuverability in the air.
If they have to use their upB at any time, they lose, because of dair.
Their side-b's can be outprioritized by a nicely timed upsmash.
As fast-fallers, the spacies are easy for Kirby to do a stage assisted kill, especially because Falco's and Fox's up-b's take a long time to perform.

In the Kirby matchup thread, Kirby beats Falco and Wolf 60-40, and beats Fox at least 70-30

 

[Solaris1110]

Has the samus vs snake matchup been discussed yet? Personally I think it should be neutral. Spamming uncharged power shots screw up his dashing up smash, and Dair while he's recovering is deadly. Down B allows sufficient spacing to avoid being edgeguarded by snake's Upsmash. Thoughts?

 

[Red.Tide]

Also, ANYONE on the Kirby AND Rob forums would agree that Kirby vs. Rob is in Rob's favor, not Kirby's.
Also, Why does Pikachu have an advantage against Kirby? That seems like an even matchup.
Lastly, Kirby has an excellent matchup against Ike. Grab combo fthrow->uair->utilt->bair->ftilt, the ftilt at the end only works on Ike. It does high damage and knocks Ike off the stage, setting him up for some fence-of-pain. When Ike is off the stage, against a Kirby, he is pretty much dead. Also, Ike can't approach with his side-B, for obvious reasons.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I can't see why Ganondorf Vs. Shiek isn't a bad matchup for G-Dorf... his attacks are so slow and he's so easily comboed by shiek.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Kirby can do grab combos on all three of them, up to 51%.

But how often is Kirby going to draw close for that grab?
unless its very easy to land the grab this is ony a minor factor.

Kirby outprioritizes Falco and Fox, at least, in the air.

True, but their ground game is better than Kirby's.

Kirby's hammer has more reach than just about anything of theirs, except Falco's down b

Wolf shine breaks it.
Wolf's laser breaks it.
Even then the hammer has a but of windup time and can be blocked easily.
I would prefer ^B but even that has issues

Kirby can duck under Fox and Falco's lasers, or steal them for the occasional annoying blast.

Except that when he ducks he limits himself as well at which point Fox and Falco would harass him with Dairs.
Wolf would do so with his shine or Nair.
Ducking dooesn't help with the lasers, just ask Snake.

His laser lock works better than Falco's.

Um, to my knowledge he doens't fire any faster than Falco's. So I doubt this, even then laser lock is never going to happen

Kirby is nigh impossible to spike because of his maneuverability in the air.

But a Usmash from either 3 of the spacies can kill him at low percentages as well as their Dsmash and Fsmashes (except wolf)
his light weight means earlier KO's.

If they have to use their upB at any time, they lose, because of dair.

Except they won't, they tend to use their side B.
Its not often that they are forced to ^B.

Their side-b's can be outprioritized by a nicely timed upsmash.

And everything else but the timing is very difficuylt to pull off considering how fast their phantasm's are, anyone can knock thme out of it and I have on more than one occasion Fsmashed them ith Ike.
Doesn't mean its going to be happening often.

As fast-fallers, the spacies are easy for Kirby to do a stage assisted kill, especially because Falco's and Fox's up-b's take a long time to perform.

Except they tend to use their side B and its difficult to smack them out of it during the move.

In the Kirby matchup thread, Kirby beats Falco and Wolf 60-40, and beats Fox at least 70-30

That's the kirby matchup thread I would like to see it from both sides.
I can see Kirby doing well against Fox but I don't see how he would have a n advantage against wolf and Falco.
Even moreso Falco.

 

[Kasai]

But how often is Kirby going to draw close for that grab?
unless its very easy to land the grab this is ony a minor factor.

Umm, it's a grab. It's not that hard to duck under lasers and then shield grab when the spacies are forced to approach. Vulnerable for dair? I'm pretty sure it's impossible to stop shooting lasers and run across the stage and get a dair in before kirby...you know....gets up?

True, but their ground game is better than Kirby's.

To a point. Kirby has a lot of options to get people into the air.

Except that when he ducks he limits himself as well at which point Fox and Falco would harass him with Dairs.
Wolf would do so with his shine or Nair.
Ducking dooesn't help with the lasers, just ask Snake.

I explained above, you won't be able to get across the whole stage and attack in the time it takes kirby to stand up. You can't camp kirby therefore you can't force an approach, which will set up perfectly for his grab combos with a simple shield grab.

Except they won't, they tend to use their side B.
Its not often that they are forced to ^B.

Unless they are below the stage, a place that isn't hard to get them.

Except they tend to use their side B and its difficult to smack them out of it during the move.

It's not that hard to get them below the stage and since they have such startup lag on their upBs, a kirby could easily swallow, shoot them under the stage and then stagespike them. Remember, they will be forced to approach due to ducking.

That's the kirby matchup thread I would like to see it from both sides.
I can see Kirby doing well against Fox but I don't see how he would have a n advantage against wolf and Falco.
Even moreso Falco.

Personally I think it's probably even with Falco, either even or Kirby's with wolf and definitely kirby's with fox.

 

[Gindler]

From what I've been hearing (this coming from snake mains I know and random ones on the boards) yoshi is even or a very small advantage over snake, not sure why just what they've been sayin' is all *shrugs*

 

[Deg222]

Wow where do I start:

But how often is Kirby going to draw close for that grab?
unless its very easy to land the grab this is ony a minor factor.

I'm sorry but I hate when people say "Just avoid getting grabbed if it's a problem." All it takes is one stupid offensive mistake to get grabbed, we're humans we can't play perfectly.

True, but their ground game is better than Kirby's.

If this is really the case, then why should Kirby ever hit the ground? Of course Kirby has to hit the ground eventually, but it takes less than two seconds to get back up in the air. If Wolf, for example, wants to camp so much with lasers, then Kirby can simply camp with back airs.

Except that when he ducks he limits himself as well at which point Fox and Falco would harass him with Dairs.

This goes back to making a stupid offensive mistake. Fox and Falco cannot harass with down airs, if either down air gets blocked, Kirby can simply shield grab and boom, 50% damage. If Fox or Falco lands behind Kirby with the down air, Kirby simply up tilt. I'm not sure how crouching leads to down airs.... You make it sound like Kirby has lag from crouching.

Um, to my knowledge he doens't fire any faster than Falco's. So I doubt this, even then laser lock is never going to happen

Yeah I agree on the laser lock. On the topic of Kirby's copy ability, lemme just say when Kirby short hops, he's lower to the ground compared to Falco. Kirby's short hop lasers are a lot more effective than Falco's.

But a Usmash from either 3 of the spacies can kill him at low percentages as well as their Dsmash and Fsmashes (except wolf) his light weight means earlier KO's.

No... just no. The only person who can kill Kirby early with an up smash is Fox. It can kill Kirby at about 90%. Falco's up smash kills at about 115% 120%, and you already stated Wolf's up smash isn't that great.

The only down smash that can kill Kirby early is Wolf's, at about 100%. Falco's and Fox's doesn't kill until about 125% from the center of the stage.

For forward smashes, the only one that's a real threat is Falco's, killing at about 100%. Fox's won't kill until about 120% and Wolf's has about the same KO power, but it's used a lot more so it usually won't kill at 120%.

You also forget that Kirby can kill all three of them at about 100% with a non stalled forward smash. I can tell you I never use forward smash until it's time to KO them. So all in all, the 3 space animals moves don't have an advantage over Kirby's KO power.

That's the kirby matchup thread I would like to see it from both sides. I can see Kirby doing well against Fox but I don't see how he would have a n advantage against wolf and Falco. Even moreso Falco.

I'm not sure why you said "Even more so Falco." You can probably ask any Kirby main and they'll say Wolf is harder than Falco. Kirby is pressured to play in the air more against Wolf compared to Falco. At least Kirby can play some type of ground game against Falco, especially the fact that Falco's ability is so good. Also, as long as you are not predictable with your lasers, they won't always get deflected.

 

[Red.Tide]

But how often is Kirby going to draw close for that grab?
unless its very easy to land the grab this is ony a minor factor.

If you land a grab, then you have a grab combo. Kirby's grab is quick. What's hard about grabbing?

True, but their ground game is better than Kirby's.

Kirby can get people into the air and pressure them.

Wolf shine breaks it.
Wolf's laser breaks it.
Even then the hammer has a but of windup time and can be blocked easily.
I would prefer ^B but even that has issues

I meant aerial hammer. It is not easy to block, it has two swings, and Kirby has some degree of maneuverability while using it in the air. Kirby players have little trouble landing this move.

Except that when he ducks he limits himself as well at which point Fox and Falco would harass him with Dairs.
Wolf would do so with his shine or Nair.
Ducking dooesn't help with the lasers, just ask Snake.

No, because standing up after ducking takes less time than it does for Falco or Fox to put away their blaster.And if they are close enough to use dairs, then why would they be spamming their laser? I was talking about how Kirby isn't forced to approach them.

Um, to my knowledge he doens't fire any faster than Falco's. So I doubt this, even then laser lock is never going to happen

He fires closer to the ground, but yeah, it doesn't usually happen. Point taken.

But a Usmash from either 3 of the spacies can kill him at low percentages as well as their Dsmash and Fsmashes (except wolf)
his light weight means earlier KO's.

True. However, I find that although they are quick, if Kirby was in close enough for them to do an Usmash, he would probably hit them first with a standard combo or tilt.

Except they won't, they tend to use their side B.
Its not often that they are forced to ^B.

True, but a Kirby player could hit a Falco or Fox out of their sideB without much trouble.

And everything else but the timing is very difficuylt to pull off considering how fast their phantasm's are, anyone can knock thme out of it and I have on more than one occasion Fsmashed them ith Ike.
Doesn't mean its going to be happening often.

I play Falco's a lot and I can often gimp their side B recovery. It is predictable, because there are certain heights where they are going to use them.

Except they tend to use their side B and its difficult to smack them out of it during the move.

...As in, Kirby can suck them up and spit them out low down, under the stage. By the time their upB is done with its startup lag, Kirby could spike them with ease. They would be forced to use their upB because they would be low down.

That's the kirby matchup thread I would like to see it from both sides.
I can see Kirby doing well against Fox but I don't see how he would have a n advantage against wolf and Falco.
Even moreso Falco.

Fox rates Kirby's matchup 3/5 difficulty, more than half. However, they also say he can be easily edguarded, he has no approach, and that he is the one who is forced to approach. None of those are true.

Falco doen't have an updated matchup thread with Kirby.

 

[Dark Sonic]

The one thing I'd like to say.

Avoiding grabs is actually pretty easy. Spacing yourself out of grab range is not dificult.

But of course, I'm talking generally, and it may be different with the space animals (though I don't know why it would be).

Not gonna comment on the matchup, because I don't really know much about any of those characters, but I don't see why avoiding grabs would be so difficult.

 

[Red.Tide]

The one thing I'd like to say.

Avoiding grabs is actually pretty easy. Spacing yourself out of grab range is not dificult.

But of course, I'm talking generally, and it may be different with the space animals (though I don't know why it would be).

Not gonna comment on the matchup, because I don't really know much about any of those characters, but I don't see why avoiding grabs would be so difficult.

I think that they fall so fast, it is hard for them to do aerials that stay out of grab range if they are blocked, and also many of their moves make them move forward, making them harder to space.

 

[Izzhov]

What do people think about Yoshi vs. Meta Knight?

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

For all people who think Ike has a good matchup against Kirby

view this thread

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4770507#post4770507

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

What do people think about Yoshi vs. Meta Knight?

From what I've played....it's definately a matchup in Meta's favor. A big one however, is yet to be determined.

 

[ipitydatfu]

this is my first time seeing this thread. hahaha captain falcon

 

[Kiwikomix]

Uh Yoshi vs Meta-Kaniggit?
Definitely MK's favor but not a big advantage. Yoshi's weaknesses are mostly canceled by MK's, and in the end it just comes down to MK being a better character.

 

[Fear The Force]

Guys...R.O.B. does have a disadvantage vs. zelda. I just don't know what else to say, look at previous posts for answers. I'm just re-emphasizing it because IT IS TRUE.

As for the pikachu vs. snake matchup, pikachu has advantage. He easily combos, chaingrabs, and sends snake to oblivion with nasty combos. Despite what you guys may think, pikachu is one of the best characters in the game, for reasons that are pretty obvious.

Spammable projectiles, small character who can crawl and wall jump, who and thunderflip and so much more...pikachu is really broke, and people fail to realize that.

If you still aren't convinced than look at snake's match-up vs. R.O.B. Robot easily outcamps him, and annoys him; pikachu also does this, with his thunderjolts, and nasty combos. Hell, use thunder and hit snake with it when your body is electrified....you'll be surprised how low in percentage snake will be KOed.

I don't see why you guys are convinced sheik is good to use vs. R.O.B. because he isn't. R.O.B. easily control the battlefield with his laser, gyros, and long range, high priority tilts.

As for the DK vs. metaknight matchup, Dk is definitely at an advantage. He has a lot of strong moves with incredible knockback that easily knocks metaknight out of the ring.

 

[Nestec]

Eh, FearTheForce, there are a bunch of other characters who carry traits just as good, if not better, as/than Pikachu's traits.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

After finally getting my wii back and playing, at length, with pyrogamer, I've come to these conclusions.

Zelda+Sheik > ROB... as previously stated.

Ness > DK

Jigglypuff > Wario.

NOW... I'm perfectly aware that, since the latter two COMPLETELY dissagree with the chart, it must be our relative playstyles that led to this... that or the match up chart is wrong...

what do you guys think about these matchups? Did I just happen to counter Pyro's playstyle? or is the matchup chart wrong? or... a little of both?

 

[Nestec]

Hmm, only a nice, clean debate will decide. However, I do support the Ness > DK argument... ^__^

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Honestly... he couldn't get inside PK thunder/PK Fire spam with terrible efectiveness. and, once I had him in hitstun, I could keep him comboed wih superior aerial versatility and better attack speed over all... then, once he regained his feet, I resumed camping

Ness won pretty handely on a wide variety of stages, all of them tourney legal and most of them neutrals

 

[DMG]

Jigglypuff > Wario.

what do you guys think about these matchups? Did I just happen to counter Pyro's playstyle? or is the matchup chart wrong? or... a little of both?

Wario > Jiggs. Wario is stronger, heavier, does more damage, and pressures and tech chases better. He doesn't have that large advantage IMO because Jiggs is a pretty decent air combat character as well, she doesn't have to worry about edgeguarding for the most part, and because she has the dair to rest (not sure how much it really affects the matchup.)

I think you just countered his play style, at least for the Wario vs Jiggs fight. Wario kills Jiggs way before she gets a kill, so even if they were just trading hits for the entire match, Wario would probably win because he would survive longer.

 

[ShadowLink84]

If you land a grab, then you have a grab combo. Kirby's grab is quick. What's hard about grabbing?

Kirby's grab range=small
Difficult yin grabbing the spacies=high
Think a moment

Kirby can get people into the air and pressure them.

Spacies have no problem getting into the air and stopping aircampin. More Falco, Fox than wolf

I meant aerial hammer. It is not easy to block, it has two swings, and Kirby has some degree of maneuverability while using it in the air. Kirby players have little trouble landing this move.

Fine aerial hammer then.
Even so its not too hard to a void considering it does not link up from any move before hand. Its difficult to land if the spaces are constantly maintaining their distance.
Especially Wolf and Falco.

No, because standing up after ducking takes less time than it does for Falco or Fox to put away their blaster.

At which point the laser smacks you in the face.

And if they are close enough to use dairs, then why would they be spamming their laser? I was talking about how Kirby isn't forced to approach them.

Pressure and Kirby is FORCED to approach them not the other way around.
Why would Fox, Falco and wolf go towards Kirby when they have better range with their blasters?

True. However, I find that although they are quick, if Kirby was in close enough for them to do an Usmash, he would probably hit them first with a standard combo or tilt.

At which point if he is that close he would get grabbed.

True, but a Kirby player could hit a Falco or Fox out of their sideB without much trouble.

Not really, not unless the person was really predictable in their movement.

I play Falco's a lot and I can often gimp their side B recovery. It is predictable, because there are certain heights where they are going to use them.

Ledge height, slight above stage height. If you are predicting them its because they are either too far and therefore easier to gimp, or they are being predictable.

...As in, Kirby can suck them up and spit them out low down, under the stage.

He does that to everyone and even then who is stupid enough to get sucked into inhale?
Especially when those characters have projectiles.

By the time their upB is done with its startup lag, Kirby could spike them with ease. They would be forced to use their upB because they would be low down.

Except they use Side B which makes the whole point of spitting them below void.

Fox rates Kirby's matchup 3/5 difficulty, more than half. However, they also say he can be easily edguarded, he has no approach, and that he is the one who is forced to approach. None of those are true.

He has no approach?
From who do you hear this?
Why would he have to approach?
I cans ee Fox having a disadvantage but not Wolf and Falco.
I already had agreed to this earlier as well

Falco doen't have an updated matchup thread with Kirby.

So whom do you get this from? Kirby's place or Fox's?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Wario > Jiggs. Wario is stronger, heavier, does more damage, and pressures and tech chases better. He doesn't have that large advantage IMO because Jiggs is a pretty decent air combat character as well, she doesn't have to worry about edgeguarding for the most part, and because she has the dair to rest (not sure how much it really affects the matchup.)

I think you just countered his play style, at least for the Wario vs Jiggs fight. Wario kills Jiggs way before she gets a kill, so even if they were just trading hits for the entire match, Wario would probably win because he would survive longer.

i'm inclined to believe that that may be the case. also, two of the stages were banned stages where Jiggs won, Skyworld (arguably Jiggly's best stage) and Spear pillar, where jiggly majorly teched... lots.

As fort eh matchup in general... I think, if Wario has the advatage, it can't be huge. He thrives on aerial molestation... and Jiggly simply isn't that vulnerable to it... she also has the ability to harass his recovery. if she only packed more of a punch....

 

[ICANTCOUNT123456]

R.O.B has an advantage to Wolf? Why?

 

[Kiwikomix]

Kirby's grab range=small
Difficult yin grabbing the spacies=high
Think a moment

I thought about it and I'm pretty sure Kirby has no problems getting a grab. People don't avoid his grabs like they do the IC's.

He does that to everyone and even then who is stupid enough to get sucked into inhale?

He actually only does it to characters that can't recover from underneath. It won't happen that many times a match, but he can often inhale characters. Inhale is just one big mindgame, so I guess it depends on the player for how often it will work.

I can see Fox having a disadvantage but not Wolf and Falco.

I'm hesitant to let him have an advantage to Fox but I'm sure he beats Wolf. Falco is neutral, you Kirby mains are getting a bit big-headed. As a Kirby user I know there's no way he beats everyone you say he beats.

 

[Brinzy]

Mmm, I'm not too sure about Ness > DK. The main problem I have against DK is getting inside for a killing move. I can damage him just fine, but anyone who is aware of Ness's b-throw is gonna do their best to avoid it, and while being a large target HELPS Ness rack up damage, it might not necessarily help when it comes to getting the killing blow. DK also out-ranges, out-powers, and out-weighs Ness...

I would want it to be Ness > DK, but really, it's just Ness being better in the air and DK being better on the ground. I would say the match is even.



Also...

Avoiding grabs is actually pretty easy.

I wish people would quit saying that BS. Grab out of your shield. Run and grab. Stun them with one of your attacks and grab. Spot-dodge and grab.

There are so many ways you can set up a grab. People need to quit thinking that grabbing is oh-so-easy to avoid, when the majority of grabs are done when you are vulnerable to grabs, i.e. most of your non-aerial attacks. I don't care who you use - anyone can be grabbed with relative ease, and anyone can grab during a match. It's not easy to dodge grabs - it's easy to dodge players with poor grabbing technique. People who think that grabs are easy to evade in general are delusional.

 

[Fear The Force]

Ness does not have advantage over DK. On some stages, DK can KO Ness at around 60%. =\

This chart is all screwy. How does Link have so many disadvantages vs. people. Kirby? lol

 

[Brinzy]

The chart is "screwy" because people keep questioning questioning questioning, yet few are actually trying to make changes to it. It's not set in stone. Provide arguments and you can change some things on the chart.

 

[Pieisthebest]

Shouldn't it be

DDD >> Mario
DDD >> Luigi
DDD >> Samus
DDD >> Bowser

Since he has an infinite chaingrab on them, so if they are grabed its basically o-death

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Mmm, I'm not too sure about Ness > DK. The main problem I have against DK is getting inside for a killing move. I can damage him just fine, but anyone who is aware of Ness's b-throw is gonna do their best to avoid it, and while being a large target HELPS Ness rack up damage, it might not necessarily help when it comes to getting the killing blow. DK also out-ranges, out-powers, and out-weighs Ness...

I would want it to be Ness > DK, but really, it's just Ness being better in the air and DK being better on the ground. I would say the match is even.



Also...



I wish people would quit saying that BS. Grab out of your shield. Run and grab. Stun them with one of your attacks and grab. Spot-dodge and grab.

There are so many ways you can set up a grab. People need to quit thinking that grabbing is oh-so-easy to avoid, when the majority of grabs are done when you are vulnerable to grabs, i.e. most of your non-aerial attacks. I don't care who you use - anyone can be grabbed with relative ease, and anyone can grab during a match. It's not easy to dodge grabs - it's easy to dodge players with poor grabbing technique. People who think that grabs are easy to evade in general are delusional.

I didn't have to worry much about getting a KO... I just didn't bother looking for one... figured the chance would present itself eventually. I got KOs from throws, from ness's aerials AND, the most glorious can from him air dodging my PKT so I looped it back into myself and hit him with my PKT body-torpedo as he came out of the airdodge.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Also...



I wish people would quit saying that BS. Grab out of your shield. Run and grab. Stun them with one of your attacks and grab. Spot-dodge and grab.

There are so many ways you can set up a grab. People need to quit thinking that grabbing is oh-so-easy to avoid, when the majority of grabs are done when you are vulnerable to grabs, i.e. most of your non-aerial attacks. I don't care who you use - anyone can be grabbed with relative ease, and anyone can grab during a match. It's not easy to dodge grabs - it's easy to dodge players with poor grabbing technique. People who think that grabs are easy to evade in general are delusional.

Umm...ever heard of spacing. Marth's d-tilt, Sonic's ASC, Metaknight's d-tilt, Ike's jab (if he immediately cancels it), ect. Most characters have at least one aerial or ground attack that cannot be shield grabbed when properly spaced.

People that think landing grabs on good people is easy in general are delusional. Seriously, just don't throw out unsafe attacks. If you're worried about grabs, just put up your wall. When they break your wall, punish their predictability (which is them using one specific countermeasure to your wall).

 

[Tristan_win]

Your lack of Sheik info disturbs me

Follow the link to a Sheik match up thread that is recognized to be fairly accurate among the Sheik users

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174741

 

[Blad01]

I don't understand why Ganondorf has a large disadvantage against Snake ? COuld someone explain this to me ?

 

[Inferno_blaze]

I don't understand why Ganondorf has a large disadvantage against Snake ? COuld someone explain this to me ?

EVERYONE has a disadvantage vs snake

Yeah I dislike a number of things on this chart. Meh. stick to ze character board matchup threads.

 

[Red.Tide]

Kirby's grab range=small
Difficult yin grabbing the spacies=high
Think a moment

Explain yourself. What makes the spacies hard to grab? Kirby has good traction, and can shield grab effectively.

Spacies have no problem getting into the air and stopping aircampin. More Falco, Fox than wolf

Not against Kirby, who can juggle them with uair, hit them across the level with bair or fair, or stop approaches underneath with dair, mixing nair in. All of his moves are fairly quick and powerful, and his maneuverability makes him hard to spike down onto the stage.

Fine aerial hammer then.
Even so its not too hard to a void considering it does not link up from any move before hand. Its difficult to land if the spaces are constantly maintaining their distance.
Especially Wolf and Falco.

Fthrow links up to aerial hammer very nicely. So do many of his aerials, if done correctly. Stop making untrue statements to support your case.

At which point the laser smacks you in the face.

Look, we duck UNTIL they stop lasering, and then we can stand up faster than they can put their blaster away. Why is so hard for you to understand that they are more limited, not Kirby?

Pressure and Kirby is FORCED to approach them not the other way around.
Why would Fox, Falco and wolf go towards Kirby when they have better range with their blasters?

because KIRBY CAN DUCK UNDER THEIR BLASTERS. They will have to move closer until they can hit Kirby with one of their close up moves, so they will have to approach.

At which point if he is that close he would get grabbed.

Nope, once again you show your lack of Kirby knowledge. Most of his attacks go farther than they look; Kirby's ftilt and neutral combo can't be shieldgrabbed if spaced correctly.

Not really, not unless the person was really predictable in their movement.

Because their recovery isn't very good, they are predictable.

Ledge height, slight above stage height. If you are predicting them its because they are either too far and therefore easier to gimp, or they are being predictable.

That's two heights they can recover. How many does Kirby have?
So basically, if Kirby hits them a fair way out, they are quite easy to gimp. However, Kirby pretty much has to be hit all the way past the death zone to die. So although they are heavier than him (except Fox), he can kill them earlier.

He does that to everyone and even then who is stupid enough to get sucked into inhale?
Especially when those characters have projectiles.

...most of his grab combos lead into inhale. If anyone tries to edgeguard him, or even stands near the edge, they are potential victims. It is not very hard for him to inhale people.

Except they use Side B which makes the whole point of spitting them below void.

What is so hard about understanding this? They can't use their sideB when Kirby has spit them under the stage! They would have to use their upB to try to get back, and Kirby could easily gimp them.

He has no approach?
From who do you hear this?
Why would he have to approach?
I cans ee Fox having a disadvantage but not Wolf and Falco.
I already had agreed to this earlier as well


So whom do you get this from? Kirby's place or Fox's?

As I said in the post, the Fox matchup thread, in justifying its rating of Kirby, says those things about Kirby.