Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[JJR.O.B.]

I don't really see why MK has a disadvantage under DK.......

he doesnt

a good MK will tear up any decent DK everytime

I'll just shoot a gyro on the ground to block your needles out

or you could laser and stop the sheik from charging

 

[gantrain05]

he doesnt

a good MK will tear up any decent DK everytime





or you could laser and stop the sheik from charging

yeah a GOOD mk player might beat a DECENT DK, but on the same skill level dk will walk all over MK, DK is incredibly quick in the hands of a pro and has more range than any of MKs attacks, not to mention DK can K.O. MK at >70% very easily, Meta does not have it easy on this matchup, and this is probably the only matchup he doesn't.

 

[DanGR]

I'd like to clear up Zelda's projectile v Rob's projectile. If you think that Rob is outcamped by Zelda, you need to be shot and dragged out of this thread. Olimar outcamps Zelda, and Rob outcamps Olimar. This should be a clue to why Rob's P>Zelda's P if you didn't already know. Rob has the fastest projectile in the game(laser) whereas Zelda has one of the [if not the] slowest traveling projectile in the game. You'd have to be blind to think that during the din's animation, Rob couldn't shoot his laser and shield or spotdodge or airdodge in time for din's to not hit him. That's not even including the gyro. ROB's P>Zelda's P. Get over it.

what good shiek is going to fire needles into a gyro? Needls are REALLY fast.... faster than ROB's projectiles.

Assuming they're both on the ground, if she doesn't fire the needles, she gets hit by the gyro unless she dodges. If she dodges and gets hit by the stopped gyro, she gets hit, assuming the gyro stops that close to her. Either way, there's a gyro on the stage, and Sheik won't be able to pick it up.

FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you fail even more so shut it

I don't really see why MK has a disadvantage under DK.......

he doesn't. DK mains want some good matchups. They come in here and make up crud to prove that DK's good. He is, but not that good. MK is too good for anyone to have the advantage over him (except maybe snake, but I don't think so)

they hold a charge, just like the gyro, but the get released and travel faster than ROB can react to them.

it's easy to react to the needles at point blank range, so no. you're wrong there. you can cancel gyro charging directly into a spot dodge or shield.

I still think Sheik>Rob even with the killing problem, and b/c of her needles, Rob's poor inability to keep from getting juggled, and quicker close combat, she wins.

Rob>Zelda b/c he outcamps her,(she has to approach) has an easier time killing by gimping than most characters, and his ability to space against her, rob wins.(it seems like I'm not the only one this time too)

 

[adumbrodeus]

-No, if you're hit while aiming the fire, it will keep moving off in a direction and not explode.

LOL

You need to play more Zeldas, no it does not just keep moving and not explode. It goes to the max distance and then explodes, following whatever path you had it set to.

Realistically speaking, against a ROB, a Zelda is going to set the path so it'll get grounded right next to ROB in case he fires the laser. That way, if he does fire the laser, Din's Fire automatically punishes him before he can shield or dodge.

I don't really see why MK has a disadvantage under DK.......

DK has the range and priority to break through all of MK's moves. For example, f-smash, f-tilt, neutral b, and down b all break through mk's neutral b.

MK just can't approach him. It requires the DK to have a certain level of skill, but when the DK has reached that skill, an evenly skilled or to a degree, better mk is almost definitely gonna lose.

he doesnt

a good MK will tear up any decent DK everytime

Nah, practically speaking, this is the reason why DK has been placing high in tournaments recently. That and his snake match-up.

 

[Deleted member]

Look at Ganondorf's matchups! Just hilarious...

 

[PhaZeR]

This is a really awesome chart, dude! Wow!

 

[Red.Tide]

So... why does Kirby have a bad matchup against Falco, and neutral matchups against Fox and Wolf?

Kirby can do an inescapable chain throw/combo on Falco for 51 damage, and for Wolf and Fox, almost that much. He outprioritizes Fox and Falco, at least, in the air, and because his recovery is so good he can be creative if hit off the stage, making it hard for him to be spiked. His hammer outranges anything the sacies have in the air, except for Falco's down B.

Also, he can duck under Falco's and Fox's lasers, and copy their powers to get lasers himself (for use when the opponent is distracted, because they still have their reflectors). He can laser lock better than Falco can with Falco's laser.

 

[DanGR]

Realistically speaking, against a ROB, a Zelda is going to set the path so it'll get grounded right next to ROB in case he fires the laser. That way, if he does fire the laser, Din's Fire automatically punishes him before he can shield or dodge.

Right after/during Zelda's din's the rob player should shoot a laser or a gyro. He can shield, airdodge, or spotdodge the din's. It's really easy, so please.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ROB > zelda in terms of fighting; in fact, I THINK ROB is the best character in the game...but that is just me. Understand that this topic is based on disadvantages of the character vs. another character.

Just because ROB has disadvantages vs. zelda does NOT mean that ROB can't beat zelda.

As for sheik, I played a very good sheik player who comboed me, but couldn't win. Why? Rob can easily gimp shiek, and if shiek is trying to gimp ROB, ROB can just go to the other side of the stage to avoid any damage, and recover safely. This is why ROB has advantage over sheik.

Yes, ROB can shoot a laser at zelda when she is doing din's fire, but what GOOD zelda actually spams din's fire like that so you can hit her with a laser?

C'mon, be serious guys; zelda will easily blast ROB away from her with her strong moveset, then use din's fire to TRY to juggle ROB and accumulate more damage. I smart zelda player isn't going to sit there and let herself be hit by lasers; that player is going to TRY TO PREDICT when to counter your laser against you with nayru's love.

As for picking shiek first, then turning into zelda later in the match, THIS IS A BIG NO NO. Why? I'll tell you; shiek's needles are nullied by ROB's gyro. Shiek has to try to side-dodge an d get inside to atk ROB; naturally, most ROB players are defensive, and are waiting for this to happen, just to blast him back. If he tries to go into the air, he'll get hit by a fair. He can sidedodge it, but that will just lead into the other things.

I'll give sheik props tho, sheik is really good at annoying a player off stage when sheik is on the ledge.

i think zelda>rob but besides that you made some very good statements here. no one is saying a rob can't beat a zelda i am just saying that zelda does have the advantage in a matchup vs rob if the two players are evenly matched. also you are right no smart zelda will just sit there and try to just uses din's the whole time. if i was just playing defense on a rob i would wait for him to come to me and if he tries his projectiles i would refelct them but i would never have to move towrds him (this is if i was to only play D) so if you look at it as if they are both using there projevtiles at the same time then rob would beat out zelda's din but the point is rob would not be able to hit zelda with any of his long distance attacks if zelda just waited for them. This added with her strong up-close moveset her smashes,tilts,lightning kicks (which all work very well on big people like rob since its hard for him to di out of zelda's f-smash and he is easly hit by both lightning kicks and up-smash) plus when he is using his up-B to recover he is vulnerable to attacks like din's is a bunch of the reasons why i think zelda has the advantage on rob.

I don't play as shiek much but it seems she has to much trouble killing anyone to have the advantage on rob and since i don't think her needles can gimp his up-B very well i don't see her having a advantage here but like i said i don't play much shiek so i could be wrong here

 

[gallax]

as for the pika matchups...it is pretty common knowledge around the pika community that snake is at a disadvantage in this matchup and that most pika players have an easy time beating snake. pika's dsmash is faster that all of snakes moves so if snake need to tilt it really is useless b/c pika will attack first. pika can also chaingrab snake, but not the other way around. pika has good combos, like the SH FF fair>grab/dmsmash, that works great against snake since he is a heavy character. snakes recovery is also useless against pika too. if he tries to get below the stage pika can grab onto the ledge, drop down jump and thunder, which effectively sends athunder near the stage which will hit any snake off his cypher. if he tries to go above pika thats not a problem wither since the thunder starts way abouve pika. if he goes really high just double jump thunder. speed is also not an issue since pika is faster and can apply more pressure of snake. mortar slides can be taken care of with a simple dsmash.

overall, snake is at a disadvantage in this matchup. this is just some basic stuff though. the pika matchup thread hasnt covered snake yet but he should be there within the next 3 weeks.

 

[DanGR]

What I don't see is how zelda would force rob to approach in the first place even if she didn't use din's. Ex. Rob doesn't have to shoot the lasers straight at her? He can angle them downward and avoid the reflection and then go in and punish NL with a gyro or an ftilt or somethin. that's what pit does.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i have reflected angled lasers and they have most if not every time hit the rob. and even if the zelda would have to approach the zelda would only have to move a little bit until the angle of the laser would hit the rob even if he curved it.

pits arrows curve more

 

[DanGR]

it's not fast enough to punish a rob that jumped>laser at her feet>ff.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

even if that true which i am not sure if it is then the zelda could just use there shield.

 

[DanGR]

rob has accomplished his mission then. Rob outcamps zelda now. agreed? Anyone else disagree?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

o i thought you ment the rob was approching while jump to laser to fast fall. also i said i am not even sure if what you said was true. also zelda could still reflect it anyway, also the zelda could jump over it. there is no reason for the zelda to approach. look i think rob is a great character and as i have already stated i am trying to train my rob up so i can use him in tournaments but i just don't see how he would have the advantage or even go even with zelda.

(quoted from overswarm) From the stage, she can kill you vertically and horizontally due to her u-air and fair/bair, respectively.

Her din's fire can be used to gimp you out of your up+b, or at least make you really creative wijth how you get back to the stage. Since you can't air dodge, you have to time a nair/bair with the din's fire or do an aerial out of your up+b so you can air dodge.

Her reflector makes glide tossing and spamming painful.

Her u-smash is great out of shield and puts you in a dangerous position at all times.

Just a hard matchup against a good Z.

Originally Posted by DanGR
you can angle your laser to reflect into the ground. spamming still works, thus zelda has to approach. Am I wrong?

(also overswarm) Except it still doesn't damage her. You could also just not shoot a laser if you were ahead in %, the problem is you can't spam.

(me again) i am not saying overswarm's word is law but he brings up good points and for someone who is known as a very good rob to admit that any character can give them trouble should count for something plus he did answer what you wrote here as well

 

[RACK^dk]

:S i'm not sure if i understand it... does Ganondorf beat everybody, or is he beaten by everybody?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^ the chart says he has no advantages (he does not beat anyone)

 

[SaxDude93]

as for the pika matchups...it is pretty common knowledge around the pika community that snake is at a disadvantage in this matchup and that most pika players have an easy time beating snake. pika's dsmash is faster that all of snakes moves so if snake need to tilt it really is useless b/c pika will attack first. pika can also chaingrab snake, but not the other way around. pika has good combos, like the SH FF fair>grab/dmsmash, that works great against snake since he is a heavy character. snakes recovery is also useless against pika too. if he tries to get below the stage pika can grab onto the ledge, drop down jump and thunder, which effectively sends athunder near the stage which will hit any snake off his cypher. if he tries to go above pika thats not a problem wither since the thunder starts way abouve pika. if he goes really high just double jump thunder. speed is also not an issue since pika is faster and can apply more pressure of snake. mortar slides can be taken care of with a simple dsmash.

overall, snake is at a disadvantage in this matchup. this is just some basic stuff though. the pika matchup thread hasnt covered snake yet but he should be there within the next 3 weeks.

Snake board counter. Pika goes even.

First off, do not get frustrated. This is a tough matchup, yes, but you'll make it even worse if you don't react calmly to pikachu's annoying attack style. Against thunder jolt spam, cancel it with rapid jab. Honestly, the pika can't do much except approach. If you see him coming straight for you, you can actually do the rapid jab again and catch him in it, or else ftilt. Beware of shield grabs though, and IIRC you can mash B for a nade to stop the chain grab.

Pretty soon the pika will start QAC'ing into aerials and trying to leave you guessing. What you need to know is what he will attempt through the QAC. Oftentimes, he'll go for a fast-fall fair which can lag cancel and combo into a dsmash, or a utilt->uair->nair. Dair is also common as it can leave him pretty safe above you. Bair once in a while if he has his back to you. Nair is rare since that is usually saved for a KO move. Knowing an aerial is likely to follow, your best asset in this case is grenade countering. All of Pika's aerials force him to reach "into" the shield area, so to speak, and thus always hit the grenade. If you keep up the smart grenade countering, you will notice a decrease in the amount of QAC'ed aerials that the pika does, and often hesitation.

Speaking of dsmash, do not forget that if you're caught in that, always DI hard left or right (aiming away from the edge of the stage if possible). If you do not DI, you will get caught in thunder at a high altitude and likely die at a low percent (well , low for Snake, 80-90ish%). If you end up shielding it, make sure you spot dodge near the end of the dsmash or else it will poke through your shield.

When you're recovering, you can try a stalling tactic to avoid getting hit by thunder. As you're DI-ing your fall towards the stage, and you see Pika jump out for a thunder, DI backwards and make your falling path near vertical. As soon as thunder ends, up+B towards the stage and past pika.

As for edge-guarding, it's very difficult to do anything consistently effective against a smart pikachu. Ledge dropping grenades and mortar edge-guard don't do very well due to quick-attack ledge stall. They have a chance to hit, but the pika can just be very careful and ledgehop while DI-ing away and thunder jolting. If you get up close, make sure you have a grenade in hand and shield because the pika might ledgehop into an uair or fair. There is one trick that you can apply. If you spam mortars and force the pika to go below the stage, you can fast-fall edgehog (hugging is the correct term, I think) and make his up+b miss the edge at the last moment. It's a neat trick to be used once in a while, especially against those who recover from below.

If you get the Pikachu to realize you can't be camped with thunder jolts or pressured with QAC, you're slowly shifting the match in your favor. It's your turn to make your move. Mortar slide if he's holding back on thunder jolts. Start using grenades offensively and cooking them. Plant mines and c4 during his hesitation. Use your passive aggression (oxymoron, yes) to rack up damage. However, it's surprisingly tough to finish a pika off if he plays extremely defensive at high damage. Try to fool him with the range of utilt, and although it can be tough since QAC is tricky and lagless, use ftilt for a KO move as well. You may be able to bank on a mine to KO him if he's careless, though not many experienced Pikas are.

 

[DanGR]

If pikachu, rob, dk, and olimar aren't>snake, then just go ahead and give snake the large advantage over everyone. you might as well.

 

[SaxDude93]

R.O.B. and DK are counters. Pikachu and Oliamr are evenish.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Right after/during Zelda's din's the rob player should shoot a laser or a gyro. He can shield, airdodge, or spotdodge the din's. It's really easy, so please.

I'm not saying he doesn't have answers to Din's fire, I am pointing out an issue with the scenario you offered, namely countering Din's fire with ROB's laser.

If he DOES fire a laser to counter a Din's Fire and Zelda has aimed it so that it will hit the ground in range to damage ROB (which is extremely easy and any half-way competent Zelda player will do it) then at almost any range, the Din's fire will explode and damage Rob before he has a chance to shield/spotdodge/airdodge whatever. He'll still be in the attack/postlag.

Gyro has the same issue, though I believe the range is less.

 

[ROOOOY!]

:S i'm not sure if i understand it... does Ganondorf beat everybody, or is he beaten by everybody?

The chart says Ganon is beaten by all.

 

[Pillow360]

The chart seems about right. Very good data.

 

[Fearmy]

wait.... Falco > Squirtle? nonono... Falco can't CG Squirtle and squirtle can crawl under the lasers. Squirtle is hard to spike with Falco's SS, and with WG squirtle can gimp Falco's Side B, so he must recover with Up B only and since how squirtle gimps with ease, falco doesn't have that much of a chance

 

[ShadowLink84]

Falco can CG squirtle but not as high as normal. around 30%
Even then his D throw links up to many attacks.

GO ahead and crawl under the lasers, it makes no difference considering how it limits you not Falco.
That and Falco has other means of KOing squirtle and considering how light squirtle is it won't be difficult.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

LOL

You need to play more Zeldas, no it does not just keep moving and not explode. It goes to the max distance and then explodes, following whatever path you had it set to.

Realistically speaking, against a ROB, a Zelda is going to set the path so it'll get grounded right next to ROB in case he fires the laser. That way, if he does fire the laser, Din's Fire automatically punishes him before he can shield or dodge.

I do play plenty of Zelda's, but if you take a quick peek at my main symbol, it shows G&W. I don't play Zelda with my Mario when I can just use G&W. I don't use ROB, but theres a huge issue when someone claims that Zelda outcamps him.

Point is, it does drift off.

As soon as the animation for Din's Fire starts, a laser can be shot and ROB can immediately shield the Din's as it travels at him. If he does it later in the animation, then yes, he may get punished. Point is, his faster projectile curb's Zelda's slow one. He wont be able to spam on Zelda, so it's not far fetched to claim that when he does use it versus Zelda's projectile that it will be fully charged.

So we have a scenario where he wont get punished, and another where Zelda takes the worst of the trade off. Yeah, there are other scenario's, but I'm tired.



And Olimar and Pika definitely have the advantage.
Snake mains should cry some more that he isnt perfect.

 

[YagamiLight]

It surprises me that it doesn't show the spacies as being advantaged over Snake as well.

Some more points:

I still fail to see how Wolf is at a disadvantage versus Zelda when he is quite good at CQC and his reflector stops Din's Fire spam. He can also roll immediately after reflecting to close the gaps really fast.

I always though G&W versus Ike was neutral, any reasons to the contrary?

 

[Fogo]

It surprises me that it doesn't show the spacies as being advantaged over Snake as well.

Some more points:

I still fail to see how Wolf is at a disadvantage versus Zelda when he is quite good at CQC and his reflector stops Din's Fire spam. He can also roll immediately after reflecting to close the gaps really fast.

I always though G&W versus Ike was neutral, any reasons to the contrary?

lighto-kun, snake is far more powerful than the spacies.


zelda's moves out prioritize wolf's for the most part, and his projectile is easy to predict and reflect.

and ike is powerful, G&W is light.


the only way G&W can kill a good ike first is to write his name in my notebook, but such foolishness, i discard it.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm pretty much done trying to argue the Zelda vs. EOB points any more... the only two people arguing that ROB>Zelda/Shiek (DanGR and Mr. Escalator) are just plain wrong on a lot of what they are saying to the point where it's not even worth it to argue because they are going to defend what they say no matter what... even when it's wrong.

so... yeah... different matchup time.

 

[missingnomaster]

Just curious: What gives Samus the advantage over Yoshi?

 

[Izzhov]

Ivan definitely needs to change the chart from Yoshi = Olimar to Yoshi >> Olimar.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

And, I know it was discussed and shot down (mostly by people who have no idea what the heck they are talking about because they don't use these characters) but Zelda vs. earthbounders.

it's enormous, really, the % of the zelda boards who say that the earthbounders have no business being favoured in the matchup thread. They counter Din's... that's insignificant. A good zelda can still use din's effectively occasionally and a bad zelda will just stop using it all together. So, it stops zelda from forcing them to approach? but they can't force her to do so either since they can't outcamp her... all of their projectiles are easily punished by zelda.

The only reason it's considered bad is because whoever decided it initially was NOT playing vs. a good Zelda. Zelda ia great defensively, but this doesn't mean that she can't play offensively. The problm is, when they can't use dins, less than good zeldas do poorly because they have to change up their gameplay. A professional Zelda is certainly capable of using her in a more offensive manner if they have to. and, for those zeldas, not being able to use din's doesn't really affect them at all... and, other than that, they really don't have much on her. they are roughyl the same weight, but Zelda KOs easier than either of them (not that they don't have some strong moves, but zelda connects with kill moves a lot easier than either of them do.) besides this, she easily gimps their recoveries and can force them to use PKT to recover by connecting with Dsmash.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

First, STH is a blind Zelda fanboy who can't actively see something wrong with both mine and Dangr's stuff so he instead pretends there is actually something wrong.

Second, the earthbounders do have the advantage, but, again, STH is just a fanboy.

Third, G&W beats Ike down like a silly little boy who fights for his imaginary friends. Its not neutral.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

First, STH is a blind Zelda fanboy who can't actively see something wrong with both mine and Dangr's stuff so he instead pretends there is actually something wrong.

Second, the earthbounders do have the advantage, but, again, STH is just a fanboy.

Third, G&W beats Ike down like a silly little boy who fights for his imaginary friends. Its not neutral.

YOU insisted, even after being told that you were wrong that Din's fire would not explode if you interrupted Zelda.

DanGR isisted that ganondorf not only beat zelda... but he beat her becuase he could outcamp her...

<_<

seriously... you guys have no idea what the hell you are talking about... and, you also provided NO reason why the earthbounders should have an advantage... not only this, but you don't play as Zelda OR an earthbounder... you really have no knowledge of this matchup at all, you just argue for the sake of arguing... so just shut up if you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Kasai]

YOU insisted, even after being told that you were wrong that Din's fire would not explode if you interrupted Zelda.

Regardless, his point remained valid. If rob interrupts zelda's dins, then in most cases, he won't get hit by the dins because it will either:

A) go past him due to the fact that it goes it's max distance
or
B) He will shield it.

It seems to me that you're the one who's defending everything you say even if it's wrong...either that or you get stuck on technicalities like the one above when it still turns out in ROB's favor.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ok so i think the arguments about zelda v rob have ended qith me and dangr in the post were i quoted overswarm. There is no point getting worked up about this sth and mr. E it is always good to question matchups and in these cases most seem to think zelda wins but dangr and MR.E had some good arguments and i commend you guys for that but overall it seems zelda won out so i think it is time to put this behind us and stop fighting/arguing about it now

 

[ShadowLink84]

First, STH is a blind Zelda fanboy who can't actively see something wrong with both mine and Dangr's stuff so he instead pretends there is actually something wrong.

But he responded to it as to why.

Second, the earthbounders do have the advantage, but, again, STH is just a fanboy.

provide the reasons why they have an advantage and stating fanboy repeatedly is stupid.

Third, G&W beats Ike down like a silly little boy who fights for his imaginary friends. Its not neutral.

but Ike also does crack and heroine.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Regardless, his point remained valid. If rob interrupts zelda's dins, then in most cases, he won't get hit by the dins because it will either:

A) go past him due to the fact that it goes it's max distance
or
B) He will shield it.

It seems to me that you're the one who's defending everything you say even if it's wrong...either that or you get stuck on technicalities like the one above when it still turns out in ROB's favor.

no.. not the case... if he counters her Din's with laser, then zelda angles din's so it goes at his feet and will explode.. it a techinque all good zelda's employ., and he won't be able to dodge or shied in time. He CAN dondge or shield if he doesn't try to counter with laser first, but lasering causes an innevitable exchange, andZelda's projectile is stronger, making ROB come out worse for the wear.

 

[AmishTycoon]

Hello,

What is an earthbounder?

Take care,

AmishTycoon