Ness deserves some love.
-everyone knows about the pikmen-pk2 gimp and the cg [important factor]
What's stopping any competent Ness player from doing a Nair before he recovers? This knocks them off immediately, and due to his falling, you can't throw another pikmin and land a hit. Ness can recover from many of the blindspots of the throw, especially below, so I don't see how this does much.
Ness has an easier time gimping you than you gimping him. His forward and back throws can easily launch you off the edge where Ness will destroy you. Ok, some of your attacks might have the range, but they're slow. Ness has great maneuverability in the air and quick effective aerials. Once you're off, he can easily drag you out with Fair -> Fair, and recover with his second jump, effectively ledge guarding you. Not to mention, with your limited recovery options, you're a predictable target for his might foot spike. A Bair off the ledge will easily destroy Oli, too.
and Dtilt is funny on Olimar right next to the ledge, as it gets rid of his pikmin and knocks him off. Gimped with a flurry of kicks.
So his throws will put you in an awful place, where if you get him off, he can still handle it.
Ness' Edgegame > Olimar's in this case.
-ness has low range-olimar has high
Ness is not low range by any means. You mention aerials and ground game next, so I'll ignore this part, and you can get the gist of this part from those two.
-olimar's aerials>ness' [outrange mostly]
I doubt it. Olimar has superior vertical control with his aerials, but compared to Ness' horizontal aerials, they're not too good. Ness' stops all pikmin save yellow with his Fair, and that makes a good approach. His Bair kills Oli like it's his business. The Uair will kill quite early and it comes out faster than Olimar's Dair. The Uair on Olimar isn't a threat because Ness isn't going to be dropping down on him for a pike.
Ness Nair kills pikimin before they hurt him, and Olimars cancels out PKT.
Needless to say, Ness' is better in this matchup.
Oli's aerials are bad when compared to Ness'.
Ness' Air game >>> Olimar's
-olimar's ground game especially>ness [big plus]
Nope. Ness has a better approach, stops your pikmin throw easily, and has the yoyo!!!
I'll get into approaches soon.
Firstly, I'll talk about stopping pikimin from being thrown.
Ness' Dash attack and Fair stop all but yellow
Pk Fire stops all but red
PK Thunder kills all but yellow
Nair kills all
Jab knocks off any.
Yoyo stops any from getting on if timed
AND THE BASEBALL BAT REFLECTS PIKMIN ONTO YOU.
This is important. The bat will kill pikmin if he hits them, but, if he misses with the bat slightly, the pikmin get knock backed onto Olimar. It's easiest vs the yellow pikmin. They get thrown highest, and the bat reflects them as the drop down in their arc. It's possible for any, but the bat counters yellow the most.
The yoyo has range vs Olimar, and it shield pokes. I believe it out ranges Oli's shield grab, too. It stops pikimin, as noted above, and it's just awesome. It may not get a kill (Unless it's his Dsmash and Oli's behind him, where it may launch Olimar far off the edge), but it's a really good move in this matchup. It stops Olimar a good deal.
Ness' Ground game = Olimar's
Depending on how you look at it.
-olimar's range game>ness
I assume you mean projectiles. As noted above, Ness has many ways to deal with your projectiles, and I feel that the Pikmin toss is largely ineffective. Pkfire sets up into a lot of his combo's and it's a viable approach. It also acts as a shield because of it's effect of blooming into a pillar of flame.
PK thunder can outrange your projectile game, but doesn't do much because, as I said, Olimar's Utilt stops the PKT. It's still a great move for juggling Oli when he's caught in the air.
PKT2 kills Oli like nothing else. Even if it didn't score a kill, it puts him in a ****ty place.
Ness Projectile game > Olimar's
-olimar's approach game>ness
Lol...
Approaching with the pikimin throw doesn't work, so I don't know how you can even attempt an approach against a Ness. His airgame is better by leagues, and his ground game is on par.
Ness has much better options of approaching. Where Lucas is campy, Ness is rough, so he's built to get in yo' face.
Fair is a great multihitter and leads into many more.
Pk Jumping works wonders in this matchup.
Dash attack pushes them, so Olimar cant shield grabbed if it was timed and space right.
So really, the fair is his staple approach move, and it brings on the hurt.
PK jumping is something new, and I think it's quite relevant and useful here.
Olimar cant approach. All he can do is set up a tent and hope for the best.
Ness' Approach game >>> Olimar's (It's nonexistant here)
[-olimar's pikmen nullify ness' approach game](new)
WRONG. The pikmin nullify nothing.
Dash attack and Fair plow them.
And PK Jumping is above the throw range.
Fair will destroy you.
Olimar - Ness
Olimar is tiny and difficult to hit. Most of his attacks involve throwing Pikmin--that means long range. His projectile range outdoes Lucas, so I feel like Ness is the better choice. His recovery is tether-based, meaning it's easily stolen. Hang on the ledge as he tries to recover, and he'll have no options left. Counter his Pikmin throws with PK Fire--it will create a kind of shield which stops the next few Pikmin from coming through, and may damage him if he tries to charge for an attack. Another good counter for Pikmin is to remain in the air and use forward aerials--they act as a shield against all Pikmin except yellow. If a Pikmin does attach to you, immediately get rid of it using a forward or neutral aerial. If you're quick enough, you will take no damage. Positioning is also important--most of Olimar's ranged attacks will hit either straight forward or straight up. Attacking from a diagonal angle above will protect you from most attacks, but beware his Pikmin chain, which attacks at a 45 degree angle up from the ground. I think grabs are a good option against him, as well as the yoyos. The nice ground range on the down smash should be helpful. Count on him camping with his projectiles. Try to stay in his face so he doesn't have the opportunity to settle in and keep you far away.
Ok, this may seem extreme, but I would have to say that Ness has the advantage vs Olimar.
His ledge game is better, his air game is superior, he nullifies Olimar's projectiles, and he is one of the very few characters who has an easy time approaching the campy spaceman and rarely gets punished.
The yoyo is amazing too.
I'm not a Ness main but, I actually say Ness has the slight advantage, even with the gimp on him. it's easy to handle with a lightning fast Nair.
Now who'd argue this?
