Brawl+ Beta Build (GSH1) Discussion

[Jiangjunizzy]

Bowser sucks because of NADT.

That is all.

you suck

that is all

 

[proteininja]

you suck

that is all

Are you watching me?

That is all

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Bowser is in my top ten, IMO.

I'm sorry you can't just airdodge through my combos anymore. You'll actually have to do more than press a button. :V

 

[GHNeko]

Bowser is in my top ten, IMO.

I'm sorry you can't just airdodge through my STRINGS anymore. You'll actually have to do more than press a button. :V

oh yea. i can just tap a stick (not even all the way) and THEN i can air dodge through your STRINGS.

Completely different. Right? Totally changes up the game.

****. You can probably just wiggle the stick and then AD at the same time. LIke a smash attack with the attack button to get the same result as ADT.


<_>

 

[SymphonicSage12]

if it's the same thing, why is it a problem if it's in the set, neko?

 

[GHNeko]

if it's the same thing, why is it a problem if its not in the set, SS12?

 

[Seikishidan Soru]

Neko, you were the one who said it was the same thing in the first place, not SS12.

 

[Roxas215]

how do i get this working with snapshots there is no snapshot option in the updater

 

[Mecakoto]

lower hitstun
- .46 from .48

Not sure what to take from that. Does that mean it will be harder to pull off legitimate combos? I'll be playing this to see for myself in a bit, but I'd like an advanced warning of what to expect.

 

[The Cape]

When you get hit by a move you will not be stunned as long, however with the no air dodge during tumble the game becomes more about chasing DI, calling jumps, and strings than true combos. The problem with the .48 system and the ability to air dodge out of tumble was that the same combos would work over and over or not at all. This gives a more in depth system that allows the player to trick their opponent in order to win matches instead of just doing the best combo they can do that always works.

 

[Mecakoto]

When you get hit by a move you will not be stunned as long, however with the no air dodge during tumble the game becomes more about chasing DI, calling jumps, and strings than true combos. The problem with the .48 system and the ability to air dodge out of tumble was that the same combos would work over and over or not at all. This gives a more in depth system that allows the player to trick their opponent in order to win matches instead of just doing the best combo they can do that always works.

Heh. The only reason I play (or played, depending on what happens in a few hours) Brawl+ is the combos that exist in it. Sure, being able to predict an opponent is all well and good, but I don't want the Match to be mostly that. I can go to Chess, vBrawl, or even online Pokemon matches for that.

How big is the difference, anyway? In terms of average frames.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

The thing is that we're trying to get rid of easy-*** combos and infinites.



If all you like is easy-as-crap combos you can do over and over, use PSA yourself and make every move a perfect combo move.

 

[Dan_X]

NADT has instantly added depth to the string game, it's great!

Skyworld is also pretty cool, I don't kind the added hitlag. It certainly doesn't break the map... I also like Jungle. So far I've yet to experience any glaring bugs or issues with this set. No freezing and whatnot for me.

I really like Ivysaur's Dair change, it helps nicely in his recovery. It's too bad that if you stall and are forced to use up+B on a player on the edge you still die because you can't up+b again.

This kinda makes the Dair change useless. Wait... Would it be possible to make up+B replenishable upon hitting the enemy? That way if you successfully hit them off the edge you can actually recover. I can't see how this would be broken because if you don't hit them with
the recovery you also can't reuse your recovery as you enter special fall.

So... How about a conditional up+b replenish upon hitting the enemy?

 

[Roxas215]

When you get hit by a move you will not be stunned as long, however with the no air dodge during tumble the game becomes more about chasing DI, calling jumps, and strings than true combos. The problem with the .48 system and the ability to air dodge out of tumble was that the same combos would work over and over or not at all. This gives a more in depth system that allows the player to trick their opponent in order to win matches instead of just doing the best combo they can do that always works.

This sounds great. Maybe this will get rid of the "easy mode" that plagued the older sets.

Also whoever is responsible for the new ivy i freaking love u.

I really like Ivysaur's Dair change, it helps nicely in his recovery. It's too bad that if you stall and are forced to use up+B on a player on the edge you still die because you can't up+b again.

This kinda makes the Dair change useless. Wait... Would it be possible to make up+B replenishable upon hitting the enemy? That way if you successfully hit them off the edge you can actually recover. I can't see how this would be broken because if you don't hit them with v
the recovery you also can't reuse your recovery as you enter special fall.

So... How about a conditional up+b replenish upon hitting the enemy?

Um no. Nothing should be changed with her up b. Everyone remembers the horror from the older sets. Ivy has the tools to get back to the stage now with her new dair. u can razor leaf/dair stall and then use double jump/Space ur dair and u bair to knock them off.

Ivy is suppose to have a weak recovery but not impossible. With her new dair i feel like shes perfect now(Bullet seed can be looked at but thats another topic lol/.

 

[Mecakoto]

The thing is that we're trying to get rid of easy-*** combos and infinites.



If all you like is easy-as-crap combos you can do over and over, use PSA yourself and make every move a perfect combo move.

I'm not looking for 0 -> Deaths or infinites. Nor am I looking for easy combos. I'm just wondering if I can continue doing the 2-4 move combos that I need to perform to actually kill someone or to build damage.

 

[CloneHat]

Yes you can.

 

[GHNeko]

Neko, you were the one who said it was the same thing in the first place, not SS12.

Yep. Except imo, it's filler technical skill that isnt required. So imo, it should go because the only thing it adds is the room of error when escaping strings. When the best possible result is the same as if it didnt exist in the first place.

 

[The Cape]

Mecakoto: There are still 2 or 3 hit BnBs that build good damage and are true combos, its just the longer strings are no longer "work or dont work" but are now based on the reactions and actions of both players

Philly: It was suggested in the Ivysaur thread and Shanus made it happen

Orca: Ivy dair helps her get closer to the edge and she can use leaves and attacks to get people off it, the reuseable upB (even on hit) would diminish her one weakness that keeps her balanced, and also would not make much difference as smart players would start to stand from the ledge when Ivy starts the attack anyway.

Neko: Its not filler tech skill as you have to decide whether you want to try to get out of the combo with flicking to AD or to DI properly. If you flick at the wrong time you may get a very bad DI and therefore die sooner or get comboed worse. The fact of the matter is it makes the defensive position more thought provoking during a combo than just mashing on the R button.

 

[shanus]

I'm not looking for 0 -> Deaths or infinites. Nor am I looking for easy combos. I'm just wondering if I can continue doing the 2-4 move combos that I need to perform to actually kill someone or to build damage.

To put it in perspective:

vBrawl is at .40 hitstun.

Brawl+ Official 5.0 is at .4865 hitstun

This *test build* is at .46 hitstun. You will still be able to do registered combos, but they will be more limited to 2-3 hits with very potent strings being able to link beyond that with a simple read. So to answer your question, yes combos do exist, albeit harder to perform. I think the goal of this was to make it less autocombo and force more variety, but I'll let Cape do the defense since he made it

 

[Thunderhorse+]

I'm not looking for 0 -> Deaths or infinites. Nor am I looking for easy combos. I'm just wondering if I can continue doing the 2-4 move combos that I need to perform to actually kill someone or to build damage.

Yes you can, those are certainly still feasible. True combos are still in the game, however you can no longer eat a sandwich/have a casual conversation with a friend ect. while you pull off a 7 hit true combo that does 75%+ damage.

 

[GHNeko]

Neko: Its not filler tech skill as you have to decide whether you want to try to get out of the combo with flicking to AD or to DI properly. If you flick at the wrong time you may get a very bad DI and therefore die sooner or get comboed worse. The fact of the matter is it makes the defensive position more thought provoking during a combo than just mashing on the R button.

which is why you flick in the direction for best possible DI in-case you do get it, because the flick is indiscriminatory to direction. I bet that after playing with BAD and NADT, it'll will become second nature to mid-high level players to constantly flick in the direction of what they'll believe is the best DI. If you see an attack coming, you flick in the right direction and try to AD. If you AD, you're set. If not, at least you DI'd right.

Because I'm pretty **** sure that you can practically flick and AD at the same time, maybe with the flick coming a few frames before the AD.

That's what I theorize.

 

[Roxas215]

Yes you can, those are certainly still feasible. True combos are still in the game, however you can no longer eat a sandwich/have a casual conversation with a friend ect. while you pull off a 7 hit true combo that does 75%+ damage.

falcon=dthrow-eat a sandwhich-knee

 

[Mecakoto]

Mecakoto: There are still 2 or 3 hit BnBs that build good damage and are true combos, its just the longer strings are no longer "work or dont work" but are now based on the reactions and actions of both players

That's good then. As long as I can do the "Bread and Butter" combos of my characters, I'll be fine.

To put it in perspective:

vBrawl is at .40 hitstun.

Brawl+ Official 5.0 is at .4865 hitstun

This *test build* is at .46 hitstun. You will still be able to do registered combos, but they will be more limited to 2-3 hits with very potent strings being able to link beyond that with a simple read. So to answer your question, yes combos do exist, albeit harder to perform. I think the goal of this was to make it less autocombo and force more variety, but I'll let Cape do the defense since he made it

Ah good. I'd still like more hitstun to be honest, (I'm a combo ***** in every fighting game I play) but it is a Beta, of course. I'll post me feedback about it later tonight.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

falcon=dthrow-eat a sandwhich-knee

It's ironic because the Eat A Sandwich combo (dash attack -> eat a sandwich -> knee) is still in this build <_<.

But that's besides the point.

 

[StarcraftLedZeppelin]

Is there still rapid jabs by holding the A button? I ran the updater exe file and Snake still has multiple jabs.

 

[Dan_X]

Oh... About Falco's side+b no auto sweet spotting... So far my opponent has not taken full advnatage that he could probably use a move to poke me off the edge before I snap, but if he did I'd likely be in a ton of trouble. What stinks is the fact that it's not skill based, when I thought it was supposed to be. Wether or not I aim exactly at the egde it acts as if I hit above giving me that punishable stall. Was it like that in Melee?

I feel like the side+b no AS fix is a lame bandaid fix.

Also... Are other characters going to have this implemented? What about Peach, Ike, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Pika, etc? They should all only sweet spot the edge if they aim perfectly at it.

So far, as I've said, good aim does not matter... You simply can't instantly sweet spot with good aim, which is terribly stupid.

I can't imagine dealing with a character like Marth who has a great Dtilt with which to keep you from the ledge. Or Pit who's dtilt spikes you. There are tons of chars that can do stuff like this, and Falco is susceptible to all of them even with careful aim.

 

[Magus420]

Dash attack has a 55 angle now from 65. If you're getting knee'd after it you DI'd poorly.

 

[MK26]

Oh... About Falco's side+b no auto sweet spotting... So far my opponent has no taken full advnatage that he could probably use a move to poke me off the edge before I snap, but if he did I'd likely be in a ton of trouble. What stinks is the fact that it's not skill based, when I to
thought it was supposed to be. Wether or not I aim exactly at the egde it acts as if I hit above giving me that punishable stall. Was it like that in Melee?

I feel like the side+b no AS fix is a lame bandaid fix.

Also... Are other characters going to have this implemented? What about Peach, Ike, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Pika, etc? They should all only sweet spot the edge if they aim perfectly at it.

So far, as I've said, good aim does not matter... You simply cantinstantly sweet spot with good aim, which is terribly stupid.

I can't imagine dealing with a character like Marth who has a great Dtilt with which to keep you from the ledge. Or Pit who's dtilt spikes you. There are tons of bars that can do stuff like this, and Falco is susceptible to all of them even with careful aim.

q4agreement

 

[GHNeko]

I can't imagine dealing with a character like Marth who has a great Dtilt with which to keep you from the ledge. Or Pit who's dtilt spikes you. There are tons of chars that can do stuff like this, and Falco is susceptible to all of them even with careful aim.

Barely any characters have dtilts that hit under the ledge. hell. i dont think any character has a dtilt that pokes like that.

 

[Roxas215]

Peach already lacks auto sweetspot

 

[MK26]

not if you do it right, dude

 

[SymphonicSage12]

You just have to be farther down from the ledge than you think. Her umbrella has pretty good vertical grab range. and you have to aim into the stage a little. It's pretty easy.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Oh... About Falco's side+b no auto sweet spotting... So far my opponent has no taken full advnatage that he could probably use a move to poke me off the edge before I snap, but if he did I'd likely be in a ton of trouble. What stinks is the fact that it's not skill based, when I to
thought it was supposed to be. Wether or not I aim exactly at the egde it acts as if I hit above giving me that punishable stall. Was it like that in Melee?

I feel like the side+b no AS fix is a lame bandaid fix.

Also... Are other characters going to have this implemented? What about Peach, Ike, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Pika, etc? They should all only sweet spot the edge if they aim perfectly at it.

So far, as I've said, good aim does not matter... You simply cantinstantly sweet spot with good aim, which is terribly stupid.

I can't imagine dealing with a character like Marth who has a great Dtilt with which to keep you from the ledge. Or Pit who's dtilt spikes you. There are tons of chars that can do stuff like this, and Falco is susceptible to all of them even with careful aim.

Mix it up with a Firebird. You'd be surprised how far a purely horizontal one will go. If you're too far away for a Firebird to grab the stage, you should be able to snap to the ledge with side B as quickly as if autosnap side Bs were on.

 

[Shadic]

Barely any characters have dtilts that hit under the ledge. hell. i dont think any character has a dtilt that pokes like that.

Link's does! It's a bit laggy, though.

 

[GHNeko]

wait. horizontal firebird doesnt rise vertically unlike side b which rises at an extremely minuscule and virtually undetectable amount now, right?

So does that autosnap as well?

 

[StarcraftLedZeppelin]

I don't know if I have this installed properly, is temple still suppose to be temple?

 

[Thunderhorse+]

wait. horizontal firebird doesnt rise vertically unlike side b which rises at an extremely minuscule and virtually undetectable amount now, right?

So does that autosnap as well?

It does so long as you're not holding any direction once it reaches ledgesnap range.

IE if you Firebird directly down, and continue to hold down, you'll just Firebird through the ledgesnap range and fall to your death. If you don't have any directional input by the time Firebird reaches there, you'll snap to the ledge. Same principle as Bowser's aerial buttstomp. Works horizontally as well. Holding forward when you reach the ledgesnap range with Firebird means he'll just be charging at the ledge until the animation is finished. Actually I'm a huge dunce. I just checked holding forward, after it comes out it still auto ledgesnaps regardless. Holding down still means you fall to your death though.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Zeppelin, your SD card can't be an SDHC.


Temple should be the SSE Junglefield.

 

[Ryose]

Temple freezes on selection for me...everytime. Brawl+ title would cause auto freeze after loading screen finised so I took it off. Only bugs I came across

Samus bombs <3.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Then you did something wrong.