Brawl+ Beta Build (GSH1) Discussion

[Sterowent]

will you guys be adding the KB/DMG reduction again any time soon? i liked how it threw in another variable to combos.

i know, there are some problems with it, but at the range of reduction you guys had it on, linking into the same attack wasn't a great cause for concern. it would only add to frustration in killing, and, if you're playing a character that already has a hard time killing, likely they're a great combo racker or they can combo into a kill move, right?

unless you're sonic, i guess...just, uh...grab -> pummel, eh?

anyway, the extra variable would add something to the previously mentioned lack of flexibility. not much, might i add, but some, and that's better than none.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Too many bad consequences.


Fox up tilt is broken with any sort of decay on....


I think the decay system is completely dumb UNLESS it only affects damage.


That is the only system I will accept. A system that would only affect damage, but keep KB the same.

 

[Sterowent]

hey, moves could always be reviewed individually.

fox uptilt +whatever BKB or KBG that keeps it viable as whatever it is now = done.

 

[proteininja]

What is the issue with implementing this damage only system? Is it because damage is used in the equation to calculate kb? In that case you could use the original damage to calculate kb, then load the reduced damage in from a register after calculation to not affect kb. Or is it something completely different?

 

[proteininja]

hey, moves could always be reviewed individually.

fox uptilt +whatever BKB or KBG that keeps it viable as whatever it is now = done.

I think the point is that they balanced the game around not having decay, and putting kb decay back in would screw up a ton of stuff. However dmage decay wouldn't change any balance. It would only give diminishing returns to spamming.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

the reason that a damage only decay system would be hard to implement is that altering damage directly affects the KB of a move.

Basically we need to figure out a decay system that automatically compensates for KB.

 

[Plum]

No matter what stale moves lowers KB. A loss in damage will lower KB naturally. The problem is that Brawl's system directly lowers KB and then additionally lowers it indirectly with damage reductions.

I personally thought 75% worked fairly well for its purpose. It gave the combo game a new element that Melee's system lacked. Melee stale moves adds to the game in a way that it isn't very direct at all; I doubt Melee players can honestly say they went out of their way to know which move was stale because it was impractical for the level at which it affected gameplay.
Brawl's system however forces you to keep it in mind. In vBrawl it was mostly for killing purposes. But in B+ it adds a lot into the combo game by letting you combo at higher percents with purposely stakes moves.
This has downsides though because some characters will stale their kill moves which also happen to be their combo moves. Other characters don't have this problem, and feel only the positives of comboing for higher percents. It creates a further imbalance in the cast.
What I liked about 75% was that it was enough to affect gameplay without being as terrible and overly game changing as vBrawl's. Still doesn't go without the same problems though even if its to a smaller degree. I wonder how a really small % would work though.
Going even smaller like 90% wouldn't really effect weak hits, and fairly strong attacks around would lose 1 or 2 % when staled, which I feel would be enough to change the combo game to a noticable extent at high %'s without creating too many other issues.

Theorysmash is theorysmash :V

 

[Sterowent]

honestly, i don't see how powerful this could be in upsetting the balance of the game, besides in the realm of killing.

the goal, in this set especially, is to have moves not combo into themselves. if that's not possible at baseline, then including this wouldn't make it possible anyhow.

i'm looking for flexibility, is all. if a player's so good to weaken a move for a specific combo, and somehow land it all the while knowing hitting with any other move removes the ability to use that setup, then he should be rewarded with being able to do that strange combo. it'd be another thing both players must consider, which is great for development of the game's higher lvl play.

edit: ninja'ed like mad. i'd be fine seeing it higher than 75%, as long as it has a presence!

 

[JCaesar]

Stale moves as they are now still have a few glaring problems.

One of the big ones is that they **** up throw combos. The fresh move bonus is especially aggravating.

Another big problem is that the characters who are hurt the most by move staling are for the most part already towards the bottom of the tier list because of their lack of KO options.

Pure damage staling would be great though.

 

[MyLifeIsAnRPG]

Jiggly still machine gun punches for me for some reason. Just thought I would let you know.

 

[proteininja]

What I would like to know is what are we really trying to do with stale moves? Improve combo diversity? or stop spamming. Spamming doesnt seem like a problem in brawl+ as the characters have many ways of counter acting said spam. For what characters are we needing this to balance them? If we don't need it to balance the game then i say we forget about it. combo games can be diversified in other ways such as making moves more affected by di or implementing the windbox-tastic shield counter in the new mechanic thread.

 

[Revven]

Just a big note to all you people complaining about SSE Jungle replacing Temple:

The only stages that can be replaced for SSE stages that actually work WELL enough right now are Temple and WiFi Waiting Room. You will just have to deal with this. As we cannot replace more "ridiculous" banned stages due to their nature in size, hazards, and basically anything out of the ordinary that would mess with how the SSE Jungle's appearance is.

 

[proteininja]

Here is something I was wondering about:

When are we going to get back that rocket-noisy camera we had before? Of course without the rocket noise. Did you guys put in a better camera or have you just not fixed ti yet?

 

[VietGeek]

It's not fixed yet.

Which is unfortunate because the camera was mad cute.

I remember shanus posted PSA camera properties...somewhere before. <_<

 

[Sterowent]

i'd kill for that fix now. it was a hype machine.

it's like i had DJ commentary whenever i moved an *** cheek. was magic.

 

[Swordplay]

okay I get it SMK.

I do have a question with the stage then.

How will a stgxshrine texture affect it? one that was originaly made for the temple. Can I leave it in the folder for other versions?

I also have the same question with the music I put on that stage. WIll the songs I designated to the temple play for the jungle stage?

 

[MK26]

Just a big note to all you people complaining about SSE Jungle replacing Temple:

The only stages that can be replaced for SSE stages that actually work WELL enough right now are Temple and WiFi Waiting Room. You will just have to deal with this. As we cannot replace more "ridiculous" banned stages due to their nature in size, hazards, and basically anything out of the ordinary that would mess with how the SSE Jungle's appearance is.

or y'all can wait for me to get the SSS out so we dont need to remove temple

 

[shanus]

It's not fixed yet.

Which is unfortunate because the camera was mad cute.

I remember shanus posted PSA camera properties...somewhere before. <_<

You called?


You want PSA camera properties? You need to fix them on every characters pac file, but it does work wonders. Camelot has working values, as well.

PSA Attributes 210 to 21C:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=teHQICDh3q_bLbhDAibuwTg

 

[Alphatron]

or y'all can wait for me to get the SSS out so we dont need to remove temple

You're using Phantom Wings version of the Custom SSS? No freezing replays?

 

[MK26]

of course

with the 9 custom stage slots to boot

and a guide for it all, to put the icing on the cake

 

[Alphatron]

You truly are the maestro. I need to look into PWs codes more so I can understand them.

 

[Alondite]

I'm considering maybe making some slight tweaks of my own, just to test them out for my own purposes (though I would forward my results to the boards). Namely: lessening shield stun a tiny bit more and shrinking the "grab box" on the ledge. What exactly would doing that entail and what would I need to do it?

 

[VietGeek]

You called?


You want PSA camera properties? You need to fix them on every characters pac file, but it does work wonders. Camelot has working values, as well.

PSA Attributes 210 to 21C:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=teHQICDh3q_bLbhDAibuwTg

Well those are defaults values no? So I will have to experiment for a good setting/nag Camelot about his values?

Also Cape:

You programmed the TL boomerang change correctly (and it works too without the past speed-up), but forgot to remove the frame speed modifier of 1.2x. =P

Go to sub-actions: 1D4 and 1D5 and remove the "Asynchronous Timer: frames=1" and "04070100" events.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I want the frame modifier for the rang only. It wasnt that significant but made it feel better. I dont like the boomer-arrow IASA thing :/.

 

[VietGeek]

obv it's better sheikant

but it also allowed tl to be able to link anything into boomerang after he threw it.

this just allows him to camp more ya

but you can still sweetspot boomerang > fair anyway

no need for more kill combos =V

i mean we already got dtilt to aerial kill move

badly DI'd dthrow to aerial kill move

and bomb into kill move

and forced get-up from dash attack into Usmash/Fsmash

you gots the tools

go f*g it up ^_^

cuz tl is mad cute =X

 

[Isatis]

Okay

Big update as of 2 min ago, changes 1/3 of the PAC files and the GCT. Update again

 

[Rikana]

7:43pm est? That's 2 minutes from now. Cool stuff. Hope I can test this beta set with someone offline someday.. I've been dying to play some Brawl+.

 

[Shadic]

Any chance we can expect to have a fixed camera soon, then?

Edit:

Okay

Big update as of 2 min ago, changes 1/3 of the PAC files and the GCT. Update again

What's in the update?

 

[VietGeek]

wbr doing it like real fighting game companies

"we make it, YOU FIND IT"

fufufufufufufufufufu~

<_<

 

[Isatis]

What's in the update?

First post has it all

 

[MK26]

so what exactly is in teh skyworld fix?

tell me the bottom platform is unbreakable, the middle ones are the same, and the top platform is permabroken plz

and also, is my strap screen fix in the package, or do you still have the one with the mistake?

 

[RPGsFTW]

I needed more up smash.

I had a severe moral victory on Delphino with Luigi at least.

lol, yup. Kita's Fox wasn't necessarily bad at all, just Usmashed a **** ton. He went Lucario on the second match (he beat me the first), and I beat his Lucario with Wario (I find to be a hard fight for the fat man). The third match we were kinda stupid and agree to Wolf (me) vs Luigi (him) on Delfino, where I won the set. He definitely won with morality, lol.

Him and I agreed that if we fought in another tournament that we'd go random and play at the SSE Jungle, at least once. I hope the random doesn't hate me, lol.

 

[CloneHat]

MAC INSTALLER

I love you BS

 

[Isatis]

MAC INSTALLER

I love you BS

Call me Bio :x

so what exactly is in teh skyworld fix?

tell me the bottom platform is unbreakable, the middle ones are the same, and the top platform is permabroken plz

and also, is my strap screen fix in the package, or do you still have the one with the mistake?

Yeah, that's the skyworld fix

And your strap screen is in the updater

 

[CloneHat]

Good thinking. BS isn't really that catchy.

Hang on, though. I noticed that only STAGEDXSHRINE was downloaded. Is that the Temple replacement? Where's Skyworld? Is it in something else?

 

[Isatis]

The Skyworld stuff is in the GCT, the Temple stage is the SSE Jungle

 

[MK26]

Call me Bio :x



Yeah, that's the skyworld fix

And your strap screen is in the updater

:D

i love you

:D

i love you again

:D

css with skyworld and wwr and custom slots coming soon

 

[monkeyx4]

in the future can yall add the wast lands for luigi mansion also is there any possible way to replace the fellowing

flat world 2, mushroom kingdom, new pork, and make mgs place balance


ik thats asking alot but in the future can yall do that.o tea btw i love the pit stage i always wanted to play there in matches/tourneys keep the good work up peeps

 

[Plaid02]

I tried manually replacing all of the files for visuals on SSE Jungle and Online Training Room in BrawlBox and it keeps telling me that it's trying to write corrupted memory or something. What?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

in the future can yall add the wast lands for luigi mansion also is there any possible way to replace the fellowing

flat world 2, mushroom kingdom, new pork, and make mgs place balance


ik thats asking alot but in the future can yall do that.o tea btw i love the pit stage i always wanted to play there in matches/tourneys keep the good work up peeps

1. Flat Zone 2 is Flat Zone 2. No one cares whether it would be viable enough. And face it, we all love the sausage flipping giant chef. <3

2. Neko has a plan for Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2, but it hasn't or may not ever be implemented.

3. New Pork...no one cares about that stage. And it couldn't be replaced because its data layout is too complicated to be replaced.

4. Metal Gear Solid Place is an awesome place for casual fights.