Brawl+ Beta Build (GSH1) Discussion

[The Cape]

Ryose, did you install the common5 and common3.pacs and the STGDCSHRINE.pac to the proper folders?

 

[Ryose]

Then you did something wrong.

What can go wrong using the updatifier?

 

[Dan_X]

............

Barely any characters have dtilts that hit under the ledge. hell. i dont think any character has a dtilt that pokes like that.

Falce is not "under the ledge" when this happens, so he's entirely strikeable.

Peach already lacks auto sweetspot

What's your point? I feel to see a correlation between Falco and Peach in this case. Wait.. hold on.. are you actually trying to compare Peach's stunning recovery with Falco's garbage-heap of a recovery? Wow. Be realistic for a moment, who are you kidding? Peach can float for what... 3 solid seconds, meaning it's REALLY difficult to edge guard her because she can time to use her Up+B when SHE WANTS TO. The enemy can't simply hang on to the edge with her. Many characters have a reallllly difficult time edge-guarding her. Not only that, but because of her horizontal float she can recover from most things that only characters with 60 jumps can recover from. Seriously, her recovery is among the best in the game.

Falco's recovery is sub-par at best. Really. His firebird has very little range, which then leaves his phantasm. If he can't depend on phantasm... what does he have to recover with?

I have NO problem if messing up and aiming high leaves you in a punishable state... but when you can't Sweet-spot when aiming exactly at the edge, evoking skill on your recovery, it's stupid.

Mix it up with a Firebird. You'd be surprised how far a purely horizontal one will go. If you're too far away for a Firebird to grab the stage, you should be able to snap to the ledge with side B as quickly as if autosnap side Bs were on.

Thunderhorse, said advice may be good for a novice, but I'm plenty experienced with Falco. I consistently use firebird when recovering horizontally as it messes up the enemy's timing especially if they were expecting a phantasm.

I'm surprised that you, a Falco main, fail to see that this is a stupid gimmick. You can't sweet-spot. You CAN'T. Good aim and bad aim both yield the same results: punishment. Why is this? It should be that good aim yields sweet-spot. Period.

 

[TL?]

This is a really nice build but I don't really like the NADT. The airdodge frames were already reduced and I thought that worked just fine. :s

 

[CloneHat]

@Orca

What are you talking about? The no sweetspot on side B?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Peach's recovery one of the best in the game?

.....LOL



Sure the float is amazing, but her double jump is a piece of ****, and she has no other good stalling methods aside from that, and characters can hit her out of her up b more easily than you think (thunderstomp > umbrella)

Sure, her recovery is miles ahead of falco's, but Peach's is by NO means WHATSOEVER the best in the game.


You say she can float for 3 seconds? Yeah, that's nothing compared to infinite rising pound, or a cancelable up b, or even on with invulnerability during it.

You severely overestimate her recovering skills. BTW her vertical recovery sucks aside from the good range on her umbrella. Again, her double jump is total ****cakes.

 

[Dan_X]

@Orca

What are you talking about? The no sweetspot on side B?

Yes. The problem is that even if you aim perfectly you don't sweet-spot. No matter where you hit the edge it acts relatively the same and gives you a lag (delay) where you're up-against the ledge but haven't grabbed it yet meaning you can be punished. The fact is aiming well and poorly have the same result; a punishable state of lag, which is very stupid.

Aiming precisely should sweetspot.

Peach's recovery one of the best in the game?

.....LOL

Sure the float is amazing, but her double jump is a piece of ****, and she has no other good stalling methods aside from that, and characters can hit her out of her up b more easily than you think (thunderstomp > umbrella)

Sage.... How can you say she doesn't have one of the best recoveries in the game? What are you lollercoastering about? Her initial up+B rising has good priority, and it can be hard to time to counter. Even still, the fact that she can choose when to use it is what makes it powerful. Other characters may as well be drowning under water, recovering is more of a panic. It's more like, crap I'm drowning, I need to recover NOW!!!!!! Many characters have to enact their recovery now... or never. As such you can counter them more easily. Like Link's up+B. You know he's going to HAVE to do it, it's not a question of when so much as it is with Peach. You can gimp Link's recovery far more reliably than Peach's.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Falco doesnt need autosweetspot hes already too good anyways. Let him have a weakness, no? Oh and just tech the ledge if you get hit while u phantasm >_>.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Hmm, strange, because I was playing with falco this morning, and I sweetspotted about 5 times.


>.> It's possible, bro.

 

[Roxas215]

What's your point? I feel to see a correlation between Falco and Peach in this case. Wait.. hold on.. are you actually trying to compare Peach's stunning recovery with Falco's garbage-heap of a recovery? Wow. Be realistic for a moment, who are you kidding? Peach can float for what... 3 solid seconds, meaning it's REALLY difficult to edge guard her because she can time to use her Up+B when SHE WANTS TO. The enemy can't simply hang on to the edge with her. Many characters have a reallllly difficult time edge-guarding her. Not only that, but because of her horizontal float she can recover from most things that only characters with 60 jumps can recover from. Seriously, her recovery is among the best in the game.

Um i simply stated peach cause u asked was she going to get the non sweet spot treatment.

You been complaining alot.Stop acting like falco isnt one of the best in the game

 

[iLink]

Hmm when I run the installer all I get is "Brawl+ Beta Installer/Updater v5.4" and the usual options aren't showing up. Is this just me?

 

[Dan_X]

Um i simply stated peach cause u asked was she going to get the non sweet spot treatment.

You been complaining alot

I was only talking about her side+B. Just making sure it only sweet-spots if she aims well.

 

[Dan_X]

Falco doesnt need autosweetspot hes already too good anyways. Let him have a weakness, no? Oh and just tech the ledge if you get hit while u phantasm >_>.

Why is that fair? It's often times his only option for recovery... why should it always be punishable even with skillfull use?


Guys, seriously... is that how it was in melee?

 

[The Cape]

That is how it was in Melee even though that isnt relevant here.

All autosnaps have been removed to make more skill based recoveries neccesary. Have you tried Lucario upB yet? :-p

 

[Dan_X]

Nope, I've yet to try lucario. I've seen talk of him though, I'd be for him being able to cling to the wall more.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

1. You realize you can have multiple quotes in one post, right?

2. Yes, Peach's side b only sweetspots if you do it far away from the ledge, in which case you should have just dropped and sweetspotted the umbrella.

3. He meant that Falco is a beast onstage and is only deserving of a crappy recovery? Idk....

 

[StarcraftLedZeppelin]

I used the auto updater and it installed wrong, also my SD card is just SD. not the HDSD or what ever was mentioned.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Thunderhorse, said advice may be good for a novice, but I'm plenty experienced with Falco. I consistently use firebird when recovering horizontally as it messes up the enemy's timing especially if they were expecting a phantasm.

I'm surprised that you, a Falco main, fail to see that this is a stupid gimmick. You can't sweet-spot. You CAN'T. Good aim and bad aim both yield the same results: punishment. Why is this? It should be that good aim yields sweet-spot. Period.

It's not necessarily the level of where you recover, but the distance at which you recover at that is rewarded. It works the same way with any non-auto-sweetspot upB. You're rewarded for spacing the recovery so that the end of the firebird touches with the ledge, and you snap to the ledge without fear of punishment. If you don't, you're left in freefall/left continuing the attack like an idiot, and extremely punishable. If space your phantasm so that you reach the ledgesnap range at the end of your attack, you sweetspot it. If you're closer than that, you're in a punishable state and left zooming.

It makes sense to me at any rate.

Regardless, you're right, it doesn't make that big a difference. But for me, it's not that I'm always left in a punishable state: it's that good players continue to still never be able to punish me when I phantasm smartly to the ledge (though I still get punished when I go over it like an idiot ). So really, it's not that I'm so much against or for the change, so much as I really don't see much of a difference between the way I recovered before and the way I recover now, ergo I don't particularly care for either side.

 

[JCaesar]

Aiming precisely should sweetspot.

It does. It's just that now, you have to aim horizontally as well as vertically.

Remember you can cancel phantasm before it goes the full length. In fact Magus even gave you an extra cancel distance in this build. Cancel it when you get to the ledge and it will sweetspot. Pro Falcos in Melee did exactly this.

Edit: I'm too slooooow!

 

[iLink]

That is how it was in Melee even though that isnt relevant here.

All autosnaps have been removed to make more skill based recoveries neccesary. Have you tried Lucario upB yet? :-p

: (

Is there a way to make it so he doesn't collide with the ledges and go into a death fall and instead just slide against it? I recall a match where I was recovering low and I thought I would go past the ledge but he just barely nicked it and fell to his doom. Or make it behave like falcon/falco/fox/mk sideb where he has to wait for the full animation before he grabs the ledge but not make him tumble over in a colliding fashion.

 

[Isatis]

Hmm when I run the installer all I get is "Brawl+ Beta Installer/Updater v5.4" and the usual options aren't showing up. Is this just me?

Usually if you have a firewall on, it'll screw up the program

If you're not using XP, try right clicking nightly.exe and hit "Run As Administrator".

 

[SymphonicSage12]

JC, you can't cancel it in the middle like you can with wolf's. Cancelling his side b doesn't give him much distance...

 

[Alphatron]

Orca, cancel the SideB near the edge to sweetspot. Though you already know this. I think that's where the skill based part was supposed to come from.

And for those getting title screen freezes, look into your pfmenu2 folder and tell me the size of the sc_title.pac.

@ Sage: How are you performing a tech that was removed from the set?

 

[MK26]

everybody try this out

Maestro26 - Custom SSS v2.0 - Brawl+ Stage Legality Beta 1.0 [Spunit, Phantom Wings]
046B8F5C 7C802378
046B8F64 7C6300AE
040AF618 5460083C
040AF68C 38840002
040AF6AC 5463083C
040AF6C0 88030001
040AF6E8 3860FFFF
040AF59C 3860000C
060B91C8 00000018
BFA10014 7CDF3378
7CBE2B78 7C7D1B78
2D05FFFF 418A0014
006B929C 0000001A
066B99D8 0000001A
20082522 16032123
171D0A24 0D281427
0215010F 060B0C00
0E1A0000 00000000
006B92A4 00000019
066B9A58 00000019
04052F2A 0709332C
3011262D 2E31321E
09101213 18191B1C
1F000000 00000000
06407AAC 00000068
01010202 03030404
05050606 37640808
09094001 0B0B0C0C
0D0D0E0E 130F1410
41021612 421B4301
19151C16 1D171E18
4402451B 211B4601
4702241E 251F481B
2A332B34 2C352D36
2F373038 3139323A
2E3BFFFF 0707330A
15111713 18141F19
201A221C 231D2932

this code takes a bunch of banned stages off random select and puts WWR and the 9 custom slots in their places:
WWR - 75m
1 - Bridge of Eldin
2 - Spear Pillar
3 - Summit
4 - Flat Zone 2
5 - Mario Bros.
6 - New Pork City
7 - Shadow Moses Island
8 - Green Hill Zone
9 - Temple

other changes you need to make:
get rid of rumble falls is now wwr
change the sse jungle stage name to custom1.pac
maybe remove disable custom stages? EDIT: actually, someone test this out without removing this code
add in the roster expansion code and module files

Stage Roster Expansion System: v1.1
E0000000 80008000
04043B20 3800003A
04043B40 1C060018
04043B58 38840018
04949C8C 3884B460
04949D10 3884B460
04949E20 3884B460
04949EFC 3884B460
C294A588 00000003
A063001A 2C030040
41800008 38600000
60000000 00000000
C294A1D0 00000003
7C7D1B78 2C03FFFF
40820008 3FA0003F
60000000 00000000
04015564 48000010
2042AEB0 00000041
0442AEB0 00000000
80000000 8042AEB0
80000001 8042AEB0
60000030 00000000
8A001801 00000000
86000000 00000024
86000001 00000018
62000000 00000000
0042B34C 024B0000
80000000 8042B348
80000001 00000040
80000002 00000031
60000008 00000000
4A001000 00000000
94210001 00000000
16000004 00000010
73745F63 7573746F
6D002E72 656C0000
94010002 0000000D
86000000 00000018
86000001 00000001
86000002 00000001
62000000 00000000
80000000 8042BC18
80000001 8042B460
8A010001 00000000
0042BC18 010F0000
80000000 8042BC14
80000001 8042B560
80000002 00000031
60000008 00000000
4A001001 00000000
94210000 00000000
4A001000 00000000
16000000 00000008
43757374 6F6D3100
94010002 00000006
86000000 0000000C
86000001 00000004
86000002 00000001
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

Simply put, this code will assign the stage ids 40 to 49 with file names for STGCUSTOM#.PAC and st_custom#.rel where # is a number 1 through 9.

For example, if you have three stages you want to load, you can name them STGCUSTOM1.PAC, STGCUSTOM2.PAC, and STGCUSTOM3.PAC. Then you can add the ids 40, 41, and 42 using Spunit's Custom Stage Select Screen code to add them into the stage roster.

For the module, you'll need to use this one for each stage. It has been modified specifically for being used by this code. It should work with all SSE modified .pac files and it also doesn't cause a sandbag to appear at the start of the match.

If you don't feel like re-arranging everything, I've provided a sample so you can check it out. Just copy the the folders and .wgc file to their appropriate locations.

Sample

the stages should be in the Melee section of the stage select screen.

i want feedback pplz
(shoulda given you guys a pic, but its a surprise )

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Wait, you removed wolf's cancelling side awesomeness? WTF!?


that was like the best part about his side b...


AND WTF SPEAR PILLAR IS REMOVED!? I had tons of custom music on that stage...that only would work on that stage....gugh!! My OCD is exploding right now!!

 

[Dan_X]

1. You realize you can have multiple quotes in one post, right?

2. Yes, Peach's side b only sweetspots if you do it far away from the ledge, in which case you should have just dropped and sweetspotted the umbrella.

3. He meant that Falco is a beast onstage and is only deserving of a crappy recovery? Idk....

1. Whoa really, how do you do that? Seriously sage, just worry aout your own posts.

2. Okay

3. Thanks, again, I understood perfectly well what he was saying...

I'm going to test this a lot more. I'm gonna have my friend go Marth and Dtilt the edge. If Falco can NOT sweetspot even with good aim something is wrong. Is that so unreasonable?

 

[Thunderhorse+]

It does. It's just that now, you have to aim horizontally as well as vertically.

Remember you can cancel phantasm before it goes the full length. In fact Magus even gave you an extra cancel distance in this build. Cancel it when you get to the ledge and it will sweetspot. Pro Thunderhorse does exactly this.

Fixed it for you.

 

[MK26]

Wait, you removed wolf's cancelling side awesomeness? WTF!?


that was like the best part about his side b...


AND WTF SPEAR PILLAR IS REMOVED!? I had tons of custom music on that stage...that only would work on that stage....gugh!! My OCD is exploding right now!!

takes them off RANDOM select

you can still select them, but not through the random button

 

[Alphatron]

With Maestro's post, I hereby nominate Smash Skiff as Tourney Legal. I also wonder why Disable Custom stages was in this nightly. =/

 

[iLink]

Usually if you have a firewall on, it'll screw up the program

If you're not using XP, try right clicking nightly.exe and hit "Run As Administrator".

Oh thank you that fixed it. That's weird though because the updaters always worked with my firewall until now.

 

[Rikana]

Oh and just tech the ledge if you get hit while u phantasm >_>.

Yesss. Thisss.

I can't believe I didn't think of that when I mentioned why auto-snap to ledge for sideBs should be removed.

Makes the game much more interesting to see ledge techs occurring. Plus, it adds another level of recovering the smart way; enforces people to mix up their ways of recovering instead of always using the safest method since it may not be the best anymore.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

It's because the disable custom stages code is needed for the no homebrew method to work.

also, maestro, where do the modules (.rel files) go? And what do they do?

EDIT: cape, he just posted the codes...

 

[The Cape]

It's because the disable custom stages code is needed for the no homebrew method to work.

also, maestro, where do the modules go? And what do they do?

It also helped with a few freezing bugs.

When I get a chance I would love to try out the SSS with the proper codes if you could please PM me the neccesary codes.

 

[MK26]

It's because the disable custom stages code is needed for the no homebrew method to work.

also, maestro, where do the modules (.rel files) go? And what do they do?

EDIT: cape, he just posted the codes...

rel files create the file path for the custom stages to be loaded from
if you want to know where they go, just download the sample that pw put up, copy the rel files and wgc file to their particular folders, and place your custom stages on your sd card where pw placed his in the sample

EDIT: Cape, all the info you need is in my post, unless you want me to make the gct for you...

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yes, but where does the wgc file GO?

And do the .rel files go in pf/module/ ?

and I assume the stage go in pf/stage/melee?

 

[Alphatron]

I thought we didn't need the wgc?

And nuts to custom stages causing freezing. But I really just want a working online anyway.

 

[MK26]

private/wii/app/rsbe/pf/

no folder inside the pf folder

EDIT: has anybody tested this yet?

 

[The Cape]

I just wanted it PMed to me so that I can access it later on when I have the time to test it out, and so I can respond to the person directly with feedback.

Its called being lazy and busy (life sucks like that).

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Life? LIFE!!??!!?


MADNESZ BOI

 

[MK26]

i see...done