Brawl- 2.1.1 Legacy thread

[standardtoaster]

Probably a little more than a week or so. I'm the one who is porting codes to PAL and I've got a research paper I have to do this week. There are two options for a PAL release. One, everything ported but no character sfx. Two, everything ported including character sfx. Option two will take much longer.

 

[J00sh]

Probably a little more than a week or so. I'm the one who is porting codes to PAL and I've got a research paper I have to do this week. There are two options for a PAL release. One, everything ported but no character sfx. Two, everything ported including character sfx. Option two will take much longer.

I'd prefer whichever is gonna get the release out first. (then maybe later work on sfx?)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

For those waiting for a PAL release... One thing you can do to really help the process along is take the current .pacs and port the SFX. There's an app kicking around somewhere that will do that for all the "default" SFX on its own.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

http://www.smashmods.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2370

Official Brawl- Backroom ruleset 1.0 released. Check it out. This is what we (the backroom) recommend as a stagelist, and I recommend using it.

 

[Swordplay]

Please check the Lucario.Pac. Yesterday, we were playing with the new 2.0 and a blu horizontal line on one of the TV's appeared and hovered around lucario when he wasn't in hitstun. This happened both with and without stage textures and music. It did not disrupt gameplay but was annoying enough to the point where it should be looked into.

 

[Flutter NiTE]

I found a Bug with IC on Norfairville, (idk about other stages), If you can get Nana on the platform without Popo, (her being hit there, whatever), She will freeze there, and won't move until lava hits her off. (Also makes Computers spaz out when Nana is frozen.)

Also, GG is BEAST for Zelda. Camping on the edges, Using Side B on the block walls until it reaches damage cap. Dtilt from the middle to the edges. pro

 

[DVDV28]

Probably a little more than a week or so. I'm the one who is porting codes to PAL and I've got a research paper I have to do this week. There are two options for a PAL release. One, everything ported but no character sfx. Two, everything ported including character sfx. Option two will take much longer.

I don't suppose you have some sort of tutorial I could use in order to help you by any chance?

 

[En1gmaSPY-23]

Is it me or is Ganon's d-air hitbox smaller? It seems to miss even if I clearly land the attack. Happens more on smaller characters... but it's still annoying sometimes.

 

[Flutter NiTE]

Is it me or is Ganon's d-air hitbox smaller? It seems to miss even if I clearly land the attack. Happens more on smaller characters... but it's still annoying sometimes.

I noticed that too, it feels harder to hit grounded opponents, hmm. Thought it was just my tv

 

[JOE!]

ah, so by holding jump you can still do rising aerials?

So used to just tapping jump and switching to an aerial on the fly lol

 

[Yikarur]

ah, so by holding jump you can still do rising aerials?

So used to just tapping jump and switching to an aerial on the fly lol

thats good to know..

and Ganondorfs dair hitbox is really way too small, I can't hit a grounded DK :/

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

So my favorite thing about this so far might just be the amazing portraits, I commend your artist.

Second, it's bunches of fun, just like previous versions.

Third off, at the moment, Kirby is my favorite character.

Fourth off, that link you posted isn't working for me for some reason BPC

 

[Slashy]

The artist is Xyless.

 

[Hunch]

I thought Ganon's 666 punch hitbox was supposed to be absent when a gandouken is fired. Personally it sort of bugs me that it isn't because it can still be shielded to send Ganon flying off to his death, but since the projectile is unblockable it goes through and hits the target, taking them out of the shattered shield stun and robbing Ganon of his revenge kill punch that he normally gets. Worse still is that you can't quickly roll to save yourself due to the longer lag after the gandouken. It seems like the move would have a better mixup if it either just punched or just shot the projectile. Thoughts?

 

[Linkshot]

We uploaded the wrong Ganon, if I heard correctly. This will be fixed in a patch.

 

[Hunch]

We uploaded the wrong Ganon, if I heard correctly. This will be fixed in a patch.

Excellent. It's pretty much the only beef I have with Ganon-. Otherwise, he's perfect.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh god.

Talk of a patch.

Will this be like the P:M patch, where you guys say it'll be out by a certain tournament, but then months later it's still not available?

 

[MonkUnit]

They're taking their time on making the patch for minus. They don't want to have wrong files on the upload. again.

 

[Linkshot]

Last time we rushed for a tournament, 1.6 happened.
We all agree rushing wasn't the right thing to do.

 

[[TSON]]

>implying 1.6 was bad because it was made in one day and not because it was based off of 1.5

 

[MonkUnit]

omfg i am laughing so hard right now

 

[[TSON]]

lmao i just reread that and now i feel bad.

 

[shanus]

Oh god.

Talk of a patch.

Will this be like the P:M patch, where you guys say it'll be out by a certain tournament, but then months later it's still not available?

Im sorry for making progress.

 

[PosthumusES]

2.0 was kinda unorganized >.>

That's why Snake still has HA on his UAir.

 

[IrohDW]

We uploaded the wrong Ganon, if I heard correctly. This will be fixed in a patch.

Are there any plans to put things like the landing detection and DI fixes that have recently been discovered in the patch?

 

[John12346]

There's a really big concern I've been having with Minus.

Every update, I see things like "this was nerfed," and "that was nerfed." You're toning down the broken things to be not so broken anymore... What you need to do instead of nerfing the broken things is BUFFING the non-broken characters to the level of the broken ones.

What you guys have done so far is make a new kind of Brawl where about a third of the cast was broken beyond comprehension, then proceeded to nerf the whole cast as time went by.

...this isn't what Minus stands for.

 

[standardtoaster]

Are there any plans to put things like the landing detection and DI fixes that have recently been discovered in the patch?

...This isn't Project M.

 

[MonkUnit]

There's a really big concern I've been having with Minus.

Every update, I see things like "this was nerfed," and "that was nerfed." You're toning down the broken things to be not so broken anymore... What you need to do instead of nerfing the broken things is BUFFING the non-broken characters to the level of the broken ones.

What you guys have done so far is make a new kind of Brawl where about a third of the cast was broken beyond comprehension, then proceeded to nerf the whole cast as time went by.

...this isn't what Minus stands for.

Okay. We'll make sure to make every hitbox the size of the screen, 999 damage, and OHKO. That's broken, right?

 

[Linkshot]

Monk it's a serious issue don't play it off like it's nothing. I had the same philosophy, but here's the thing.

There were key moves on characters that made it the only move worth using. Those were the specific things that got nerfed. There were also some characters that were legitimately unfair. Buffing everybody up to them just recreates the imbalance that was MvC2.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Ahhh, MvC2.

Such a hilarious game if you weren't playing competitively.

But it got really stupid really fast competitively.

 

[John12346]

No, but take Sheik or Luigi, who were apparently broken in their own rights, with UpB or Nair, respectively. How hard is it to give EVERY character a polarizing move like that?

And as far as 0-death combos, I see some problem with that, as one hit = death, theoretically.

Solution: after buffing everyone, INCREASE the amount of influence DI has on a character's trajectory in compensation. Suddenly we've got a high stakes, fast paced guessing game of intense reads and extreme broken-ness on our hands.

Edit: And Linkshot, your post kind of confused me. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

INCREASED DI?

Wow. That would actually be pretty cool. Like, what... 5-10 extra degrees of potency?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

There's a really big concern I've been having with Minus.

Every update, I see things like "this was nerfed," and "that was nerfed." You're toning down the broken things to be not so broken anymore... What you need to do instead of nerfing the broken things is BUFFING the non-broken characters to the level of the broken ones.

What you guys have done so far is make a new kind of Brawl where about a third of the cast was broken beyond comprehension, then proceeded to nerf the whole cast as time went by.

...this isn't what Minus stands for.

Monk it's a serious issue don't play it off like it's nothing. I had the same philosophy, but here's the thing.

There were key moves on characters that made it the only move worth using. Those were the specific things that got nerfed. There were also some characters that were legitimately unfair. Buffing everybody up to them just recreates the imbalance that was MvC2.

This. For the most part, these nerfs dealt with individual things... Like, let's take Sheik's fair.

No, but take Sheik or Luigi, who were apparently broken in their own rights, with UpB or Nair, respectively. How hard is it to give EVERY character a polarizing move like that?

It was a frame 5 move that killed at 70%. Even if we could buff everyone up to that degree, it's just ****ty design. When there's a move that makes a character border on "one trick pony", then something is very wrong. These moves we nerfed because buffing everyone else up to that level would simply make Brawl- a worse game. A game that people play for half an hour, laugh at, say, "this is ********" to, and then ignore in favor of deeper games. What a coincidence-this is what happened to a fairly large number of people in every release thus far. This is why so much nerfing happened: to prevent this from happening again.

So far, it seems like we've done a good job. It wasn't even all nerfs, FYI; some chars got some serious buffs and redesigns. It was just nerfing the things that were clearly a bad idea. Sheik's Fair killing at 70? Luigi having a frame 2 combo breaker aerial that does a ****load of damage and either kills or sets up for an upB kill? Ganon's ftilt killing around 60? Ness's Fair basically autocomboing into itself across the stage into a guaranteed lethal spike (1.5)? Luigi's fair ensuring a guaranteed death offstage (1.0)? This is the kind of thing that had to go in order for the game to be fun over more than a short period of time for most people, especially the competitives (which is, well, most of the smash community around here, and to be honest, the group I want to court the most).

Trust me, by nerfing things like that, we're not losing anything. We may be stepping slightly away from broken, but guess what: we're still the most broken, most fast-paced, hardcore, and amazing mod out there, and nerfing moves that need it won't change that any time soon. This also definitely is not an indicator of us becoming "limp-wristed". It's an indicator of us being sane. If you think Minus is going to become ****ified, you are entirely wrong. We're not dropping our philosophy. We're refining it. Sheik is still a fast-moving, invisible combo machine of death, she just can't kill you around 70 with an easy-to-land aerial. Wolf is still a flying brick with obscene followups and extreme safety on most of his moves, he just doesn't have comboing into a 0-death quite as easy any more. Samus is still a camping walling ***** with annoying moves, she just can't 100% guarantee that if you go offstage, you will die. Et cetera. Get the point? I'm sure you're not the only person thinking this way, so I want to make this point as clear as I possibly can.

Nerfing obviously ridiculous moves does not mean we are losing sight of our goal. It means we have identified a design issue and are dealing with it.

And as far as 0-death combos, I see some problem with that, as one hit = death, theoretically.

Solution: after buffing everyone, INCREASE the amount of influence DI has on a character's trajectory in compensation. Suddenly we've got a high stakes, fast paced guessing game of intense reads and extreme broken-ness on our hands.

Increasing DI and hitstun is actually not a bad idea... I just never knew how.

 

[Flutter NiTE]

Any ideas on what you plan on doing with Ganondoken?

Also, I miss being able to do things RIGHT out of ganon punch

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Yes. Remove the megapunch if you fire the 'doken.

 

[Flutter NiTE]

Are you going to change the animation with that?

 

[John12346]

Okay, now THAT was a good response, BPC. I see your point about all characters being broken like that, as it would cause some people to write it off as lolwtfgay, but I think in some cases, you might want to tone characters up by even a slight notch... although I'm not sure if I'm the only one who thinks this. You made your point on the Sheik/Luigi case, but I still feel like all of the characters aren't being pushed to their limit such that they all seem ridiculously awesome to use. I think the line you should be pushing for is "extravagant" in this case, without crossing the "bull****" line.

Just as an example, I'll use Mario's specials. Take fireball. Make it bigger, move really fast, but make it so only two can be on the screen at the same time. Cape, not only does it reflect ****, but it also causes a slight wind pushback effect on all characters in front of him. FLUDD should shoot a TON of water on full charge ONLY, while having almost no effect before that, while doing slightly less damage in compensation but shoving the opponent really large distances. And it should also have 1.5x the charging time as a tradeoff(?). UpB should properly link all hits if it doesn't already, and have an explosion effect at the end of the second attack, sending the opponent at a reasonable and set amount of knockback to prevent all possible punishment.

Anyway, you get my point. I'm not saying USE the ideas I just pitched, but I just wanted to show there can be ways for characters to be extravagant without necessarily being anything anything polarizing or one-hit killy. Working on smashes, tilts, and aerials would obviously be trickier, as they likely couldn't be AS crazy as the specials, but hey, you're the developers; you could probably come up with something.

Standard attacks like that could be purposely designed so lots of moves could link into lots of other moves, and with increased DI influence, we suddenly have a game going on.

Also, I'm pretty sure hitstun can be modified with a code, and I think DI multipliers exist in PSA, although you'd have to apply it to each individual move, which might be a pain to do.

 

[Spelt]

ganondoken should have the dark flame like graphic like his other attacks have.
weird ball of light doesn't fit at all.

 

[MonkUnit]

Ball of light is canon.

 

[Flutter NiTE]

ganondoken should have the dark flame like graphic like his other attacks have.
weird ball of light doesn't fit at all.

He's getting the light out of his lair!