Being less predictable.

[_wzrd]

any tips on this?

I feel like my techskill/movement/spacing is pretty good, but I fall into those easy to read patterns quickly...suggestions for noticing and breaking habits?

 

[LLDL]

Unless you randomly do spontaneous things differently than you normally do, it's hard to just be less predictable. You still need to continue playing people and look specifically for where you fall into a read in a specific match up because of something you do habitually in that situation, and that's where you change your habit.

 

[Zodiac]

Unless you randomly do spontaneous things differently than you normally do, it's hard to just be less predictable. You still need to continue playing people and look specifically for where you fall into a read in a specific match up because of something you do habitually in that situation, and that's where you change your habit.

This holds true, OP, I find that changing your habits relies a lot on seeing your opponents habits first, if you keep falling into traps then they have habits to counter your habits, for example.


Player A (Marth) vs Player B (Mario)

Player A comes in with a double fair, Player B comes in with a nair under fair and breaks approach and begins to combo. Player A gets combed to 40%

Player A approaches a second time with a fair, Player B falls into habit of trying to break it with nair, Player A di's backwards and spaces fair , fair hits and combo starts.

Just because their habits counter yours doesn't mean you cant exploit the weakness in them, looking for ways to counter their counters is the most effective.

 

[_wzrd]

yeah. i agree with that. i can do that, but i guess my lack of experience makes it hard for me to see what i need to do quickly enough to break their habits before they change it up. i do only have one kid i can play with regularly...hes been playing years and years longer than me, and can read my habits better than i to him (i get the **** in though :D). as far as playing new guys goes, i fair(lol, i main marth) pretty well, and can adapt to habits and change it up more quickly...

i dunno, i wish i could play more people, that are much better. i think that would help miles. i had my first experiance with a couple pro level players (and slightly less good players) last month, and it just helped my thirst. the best player four stocked us continually. (hes one of kamasters buddies from hawaii!)

 

[_wzrd]

thanks for the advice though. ahhh, someday ill have some video up, so hopefully i can get some even more specific help.

 

[Charlesz]

I recall luninspectra made a thread about this. Look it up.

 

[hungrybox]

throw a salmon at ur oppoent's face during the match




unpredictable as ****

 

[kpm91]

why not throw a sturgeon? it would probably hurt a lot more.

 

[mastermoo420]

Throw a box that hasn't eaten for a week instead.

Also, what helps me be less predictable is just deliberately do things that make sense but my hands consider as "foreign." Usually I'll be able to get out of my friend's Falcon's tech-chasing by doing something like that. It just feels weird, but the results are :D

 

[Proverbs]

throw a salmon at ur oppoent's face during the match




unpredictable as ****

Well now everyone's going to expect it since you said that. Guess I'll need to start throwing trout now...

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

You can only learn this with time. Lots and lots of matches develop your style; you can't force yourself to learn it.

 

[Masmasher@]

focus on your opponent more then yourself and try to follow his patterns

 

[MooseEatsBear]

I was smashing with a friend last night, and we did time infinite Falco dittos on FD, and he told me that I like to roll inwards to the stage. Train with other people and have them read you. It really helps.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I simply never have a plan, not even don't get hit is a needed by me i;ve just stood there as a falco keep shooting me in the face randomly powersheilded once and he deceided to approach and he got F-smashed(marth).

But yeah don't even know yourself and you can be unpredictable, I really confuse myself sometimes, I still haven't figured me out.

Also if you have waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy more options than you ever thought U reo\11Y DO



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx8M9WqCvCk even the taunt can be useful if you can think up an idea to use

 

[T4Varsity]

hey on a semi-related note, any tips for punishing predictability? my smash circle tends to play high-tier characters and spam the c-stick a lot, and i have no problem predicting their moves but can't really do anything about it

for example i'm great at not getting hurt by peach's turnips and dsmash, but i can't shield grab the dsmash or stay close by spot dodging (since it lasts so long), and i feel like there should be some way for me to get in some good hits if i know exactly what she's going to do. similar problems with sheik's dsmash and marth's f and dsmashes

 

[Brightside6382]

hey on a semi-related note, any tips for punishing predictability? my smash circle tends to play high-tier characters and spam the c-stick a lot, and i have no problem predicting their moves but can't really do anything about it

for example i'm great at not getting hurt by peach's turnips and dsmash, but i can't shield grab the dsmash or stay close by spot dodging (since it lasts so long), and i feel like there should be some way for me to get in some good hits if i know exactly what she's going to do. similar problems with sheik's dsmash and marth's f and dsmashes

Well from the sounds of you and your friends probably aren't that good (no offense) so most of the time Im guessing they are not properly spacing so just shield grab or WD out of shield and grab. If this doesn't work just use simple dash dancing go in bait the attack quickly go out of range go back in and punish accordingly. This is also very character dependent so yeah...

 

[_wzrd]

hbox....i threw a salmon...but he knew it was coming and put his frying pan up and on the stove and made us dinner :o. it was good. but i still lost the set

@crimsonblur - yeah, i think your right. im just used to being able to speed things along, i learn very quickly. the tech side/spacing/combos etc i learned very quickly, but the mental side of it has been a bit harder. i need more experiance, and against a wider variety of people. for now...ill try and make do with what i got.

 

[crescentia]

Use your mind consciously when you're playing and actually work on doing things differently than what your muscle memory wants you to do.

 

[Animal]

didn't read the comments but my advice is to just be AWARE of what you are doing. its easy to just play without thinking or "robotically" sometimes. thats when we tend to be predictable

 

[_wzrd]

crecentia/animal. thanks for the advice...all of this is really good, i definately know HOW to break out of my muscle memory but keeping that up and actively thinking is hard for me to do with long periods of time...so what happens after my endurance runs out, is i start to play w/o thinking...and it feels like its almost impossible to think at that point. i feel like i need to learn how to break through that wall and up my endurance a few notches.

 

[EWC]

Learn a lot of random movement tricksies and use them liberally.

 

[Brightside6382]

crecentia/animal. thanks for the advice...all of this is really good, i definately know HOW to break out of my muscle memory but keeping that up and actively thinking is hard for me to do with long periods of time...so what happens after my endurance runs out, is i start to play w/o thinking...and it feels like its almost impossible to think at that point. i feel like i need to learn how to break through that wall and up my endurance a few notches.

If you've taken any kind of standardized test im pretty sure you can focus on a 4-6 min match.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey who do you play as? As some people I don't really think but others I am like a laser beam uber focused. Also some people take more metal engery if you ask me like Ice climbers/pichu/fox/samus others to me take much less peach/puff/sheik

 

[Zodiac]

hey on a semi-related note, any tips for punishing predictability? my smash circle tends to play high-tier characters and spam the c-stick a lot, and i have no problem predicting their moves but can't really do anything about it

for example i'm great at not getting hurt by peach's turnips and dsmash, but i can't shield grab the dsmash or stay close by spot dodging (since it lasts so long), and i feel like there should be some way for me to get in some good hits if i know exactly what she's going to do. similar problems with sheik's dsmash and marth's f and dsmashes

Go on youtube and watch how pro players punish it, or go to character specific boards and ask how other people punish it.

 

[Shichi_Chan]

If you want to stop being predictable, get high.

Best solution.

 

[FluiD]

throw a salmon at ur oppoent's face during the match




unpredictable as ****

Funniest **** i've ever read

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey maybe you have to many options like I train as marth just as much as I do for pichu, but it's very clear that my pichu is better even if my pichu doesn't combo and my marth does a little bit and has much better spaceing I get a lot of tippers as marth. But the main reason why my marth fails is because I have to many options to even begin to tricky unlike my pichu I don't need to be uber mindgame based so I am not and it kills my marth.

Mindgames are better than combos it's a fact i did a set of pichu dittos very someone really good who got some good solid pichu combos off on me like 4 hits or so and the biggest one i got was up-throw dair. But I was much trickyer even if I couldn't edge gaurd or sdi out of F-smash near as well as him. It's kindof of cool thinking about it because of how flexible I was and changes I made in the middle of the set like I figured out an uber good was to camp in pichu dittos I changed speeds,approach/recover/edge gaurd/di a few times thoughtout the set and it helped a lot.

 

[Vro]

Play in the moment and remember reaction is better than prediction, so don't just throw **** out.

 

[Rat]

Also reactions faster than actions:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8493000/8493203.stm

 

[ranmaru]

To be unpredictable you need variety. Its not like you can be super unpredictable to the point of OMG WTF WAS THAT? Things that may come close but not even close but still close to that could be docs downtilt (but more ppl use it now) ganons uptilt, and dk's down b in the air. Just kidding about that last one. You should try it, it'll will be unpredictable.

It'll just be (for example if you are doing a ditto) "Oh, he did that at this time, wow why can't I use that like that" So you just gotta see the pattern of how your opponent is fighting, and you'll notice things that will work on him more than the other things you do. So, start doing things you don't do.

Oh and its important do know the match-up of the person you are figting too. Yeah, not even the char. You have to know the matchup of Hbox or Scar or your friend next door. Read it up.

Scar's are too fast for me and Hbox's are like... well I dunno. xD I don't remember. **** I suck at match-ups.

 

[_wzrd]

If you've taken any kind of standardized test im pretty sure you can focus on a 4-6 min match.

dude...i mean in like 6 hour smash sesh. i can keep up for a couple hours and pay attention, then i go ********...of course i can pay attention for a single match..

ICG - i main marth. im deciding which of the spacies is my second...cause i play them both about equally, but im still figuring out my M/U preferances. id love to go all marth though.

 

[_KuyaSombreo_]

try to force yourself to do something different and change up your style every once in a while

 

[AnDaLe]

I agree on variety.

Imo, being less predictable means learning the other players playstyle (or so adapting). If u know how he plays and moves, then u know what he's going to do and the predictions he's going to make on you. And if u know what he's predicting, then you can do different moves. But imo, this part is only in high level play.

But yea first, you need to have everything down to reaction as Vro said. Do all the technical stuff, know where to attack and what moves to do for each type of DI and character. Then, comes in with the prediction part of it.
Well... thats how i go with it. Dunno if its completely agreeable.

 

[hungrybox]

To be unpredictable you need variety. Its not like you can be super unpredictable to the point of OMG WTF WAS THAT? Things that may come close but not even close but still close to that could be docs downtilt (but more ppl use it now) ganons uptilt, and dk's down b in the air. Just kidding about that last one. You should try it, it'll will be unpredictable.

It'll just be (for example if you are doing a ditto) "Oh, he did that at this time, wow why can't I use that like that" So you just gotta see the pattern of how your opponent is fighting, and you'll notice things that will work on him more than the other things you do. So, start doing things you don't do.

Oh and its important do know the match-up of the person you are figting too. Yeah, not even the char. You have to know the matchup of Hbox or Scar or your friend next door. Read it up.

Scar's are too fast for me and Hbox's are like... well I dunno. xD I don't remember. **** I suck at match-ups.

this is correct

Lambchops calls it "people experience"

which is unrelated to "matchup experience" and "technical experience"

remember those three my children

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah, and its happened to me more than once. Its gonna happen to you too, unexpectetly. Yeah thats how its spelled now.

You will feel trapped, feeling as though you can't do ****. You can, you just gotta mix it up. Also observe your opponent too. What is he doing? How is he doing it? What is he not doing? Also if he is always grabbing you, maybe you should grab him more too? I dunno. (Well if he is beating me but I am doing the same things, I try to time them differently too)

Think out of the box. Do things you wouldn't do. Doc on doc, lets say. We are on Battlefield. We are under a platform, and I try to use an upb cancel on him. I Try but I just up b him and go on the platform. It was a surprise to him. But it works, but I usually don't do that. Things like that. Samus' do alot of upb's. ;[

 

[_wzrd]

people experience...so good. its true. gotta adjust to different styles...ive only played 2 people primarily so it was weird when i went and played some actual good players...i got ***** the first few matches, calmed my nerves, and was able to concentrate and adapt (even though i was 36 hrs sleep deprived lol. and a wee bit tipsy.) after that point i did much better, and was able to get the feeling of the new players styles.

yeah, i need to work on observation more. when im in that mode, i do very well. but since i just got one smash buddy now, i mostly concentrate on integrating new ****...doing fun flasy **** you know? i fall into the lazy watching mode, where im focusing more on me, than him. ahhh so hard to break.

 

[RaynEX]

Learning level specific movement techniques helps give you more options. More options to choose from = less predictable. If you can combine that with certain character specific spacing tricks in regards to the platforms, then you should be good to go.

Alot of the time people are moving around carelessly, putting in noticeable effort to be "random". The more you think about trying to be not predictable, the more predictable you become. I find it alot easier to break habits if you focus on other things. Worry about your positioning and why you are where you are. Is there a purpose for why you are in the air? In there a purpose for you being this close to your opponent? Why? If you can't figure it out, then its most likely a bad habit. Try not to get discouraged though, because there are a lot of things you can't do anything about in this game. Tech-chase scenarios are the first that come to mind. It might seem like you're predictable because Marth chases you all over FD. But thats how the match-up works. The level is flat and he has a long DD, its really not all that hard to do. I think a major step is knowing whats in your control to change. From there its just isolating those parts of your game, figuring out why you didn't do the best option, and do it.

Your movement will naturally align itself and contemplating the matter won't be necessary - because as a player you will (or should) adapt accordingly and move in response to your opponent's decisions.

Stay on them and just play your game. If you're making bad tech options or jumping into things. Examine your choices in those situations after the match. Did you jump because you felt pressured? Because you were close to the edge? How could you have avoided being hit? How could you have avoided that entire situation? Self-improvement is hard, I know. You need to learn to question yourself and the things you do before you can make changes to your game that make any sense.

In short, play based on reaction, and try your best to make you decisions based on what your opponent is doing.

 

[ranmaru]

Learning level specific movement techniques helps give you more options. More options to choose from = less predictable. If you can combine that with certain character specific spacing tricks in regards to the platforms, then you should be good to go.

What exactly do you mean by level specific movement techniques? Like falling through a platform, doing virtually anything on a stage that would only be particular to that stage or something?

Please explain. I know I need to learn more options and to really know what the Doc can control. I guess recently I have only been focusing on the tech part, because I wouldn't want to fail on that.

 

[RaynEX]

Here are a couple of examples:

-Fox can ledge-hop side-B edge-cancel on 4 of the legal neutral stages.

-If Marth wavedashes off of Poke Stadium's neutral platforms, it sets him up for edge-cancels which he doesn't have to worry about spacing.

-Fox can WD off of FoD's side platforms and automatically edge-cancel moves without having to think about spacing.

etc etc etc

I'm just trying to say that there are alot of character specific tricks that would definitely help with moving around the stage in general. Marth, Fox, Falco have a bunch...and I'm relatively sure this concept could extend to much more of the cast if a few people put in the work.

Lovage's tech. skill video has alot of the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Like how Marth can SH bair under Dreamland's left/right platforms, double jump and still edge-cancel into a fair or bair afterwards.

 

[Kanelol]

I don't know if anyone's brought this up yet, but playing someone you've never played before can do a lot to alter your game style. My Fox improved dramatically after I started playing a little Marth. And my Fox just played drastically different. If you really wanna get a change, try picking up a low tier for a few weeks.