BBR Game: Final Fantasy 6 Mafia

[Shaya]

@Shaya: why the hell are you rolefishing?

Because this role in particular is one that is not just flavour.

 

[BarDulL]

Because this role in particular is one that is not just flavour.

Shaya, Swordgard made it clear that he was inflicted with a posting restriction starting on Day 2.

Whether or not he is Cyan doesn't necessarily give Town any new beneficial information.

Assuming the new posting restriction wasn't mod related, however, it's possible that this is the ability of one of the Mafia players...which makes sense.

 

[Shaya]

Id prefer to leave the question to adumbrodeous for the moment.
I am extremely interested in why adumbrodeous seemed to know that swordgard could not be Cyan.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Okay, one person, popping off one person, WITHOUT any POSSIBLY helpful information is indeed shooting blindfolded.

Dastrn was pretty inactive and didn't contribute much towards scumhunting. Vig could have killed him for that reason. It's not unheard of for vigilantes to kill off townies that are going to slow them down. Granted, if this is the case, it was an unlucky move. You mention limiting down possibilities but I don't know what you're limiting them down to. Figuring out which faction killed the cop isn't going to get us anywhere, whether it be vig, mafia, or sk lol.

Because this role in particular is one that is not just flavour.

wut

So what's everyone think about a reflex wagon? He's just dead weight as of now. Not posting whatsoever, and giving nothing of substance when he does.

unvote
Vote: Reflex

 

[Omni]

Id prefer to leave the question to adumbrodeous for the moment.
I am extremely interested in why adumbrodeous seemed to know that swordgard could not be Cyan.

Oh, and by the by? Keep your identity secret. Trust me on that one. Don't give out your character name, ability, nothing.

Well get uncurious because there are answers that you are digging up that could be more beneficial for mafia to uncover than town. Don't be ********.

 

[Scamp]

Shadow: First off, I said you implied it, not that you said it. Next, nice try, but the whole thing I said to you about Chibo had nothing to do with the Vig claiming scenerio. It was just something you kind of threw in there though it didn't need to be.


Omni: (And Shadow to a lesser extent) So a vig kills reflex and suddenly the votes that were cast on him have no meaning anymore? That's just ridiculous.


Bardull: You find me one person that doesn't think you were rolefishing in that post, or making it look like a vig might want to consider claiming right now.

As for the question, when did I ever say that I think a vig shot Dastrn?


Shaya: What an odd time to enter the conversation with something you've actually already commented on before. You know I forgot to show you exactly where I got that info from. Did you find it?

 

[Omni]

are you deliberately skirting the issue scamp? you keep responding to us with more questions when we answer your question specifically and accurately.

if the same vig killed someone who wasn't Reflex and there were no votes on that person we would be left in the same situation.

the only scenario that you want to paint that makes the vig have a purpose is shooting Reflex because the town was nearing that decision. that doesnt take into consideration MANY things that deal with flavor such as when they can shoot, how many times they can shoot, the risk involved at performing a shot at night, etc.

i forgot how all this started. just realize that votes that lead to a lynch > vig killing random person off at night.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, more cards on the table, I know he's not Cyan unless there's repetition in roles.

Hmm,
Perhaps Ive come in too early with this, but its probably best I do this before Day 2 is over.

 

[BarDulL]

Shadow: First off, I said you implied it, not that you said it. Next, nice try, but the whole thing I said to you about Chibo had nothing to do with the Vig claiming scenerio. It was just something you kind of threw in there though it didn't need to be.


Omni: (And Shadow to a lesser extent) So a vig kills reflex and suddenly the votes that were cast on him have no meaning anymore? That's just ridiculous.


Bardull: You find me one person that doesn't think you were rolefishing in that post, or making it look like a vig might want to consider claiming right now.

As for the question, when did I ever say that I think a vig shot Dastrn?


Shaya: What an odd time to enter the conversation with something you've actually already commented on before. You know I forgot to show you exactly where I got that info from. Did you find it?

It seems I did misunderstand the context of the situation...I was under the impression that you were contesting that Dastrn was shot by the Vig...apologies.

I answered your question, however. I share SL's sentiments that Vig should not reveal himself, whether or not he has shot already.

Now, answer me this: despite what me and Omni have presented against Chibo, you don't find Chibo's behavior to be suspicious in the slightest. Why do you feel he isn't suspicious? Why do you feel that he is not independent or scum, based on what has been said thus far?

 

[Scamp]

are you deliberately skirting the issue scamp? you keep responding to us with more questions when we answer your question specifically and accurately.

if the same vig killed someone who wasn't Reflex and there were no votes on that person we would be left in the same situation.

the only scenario that you want to paint that makes the vig have a purpose is shooting Reflex because the town was nearing that decision. that doesnt take into consideration MANY things that deal with flavor such as when they can shoot, how many times they can shoot, the risk involved at performing a shot at night, etc.

i forgot how all this started. just realize that votes that lead to a lynch > vig killing random person off at night.

I agree with that last statement completely. I totally disagree that you (or "we", as you say) answer my questions specifically and accurately.

Do you really think we'd be in the same situation if a vig had killed you or me?

Also, what issue are you talking about me skirting? If anything I figure your answers are skirtish.

Hmm,
Perhaps Ive come in too early with this, but its probably best I do this before Day 2 is over.

Well what you quoted is exactly what I was going to quote for you, so why did you bring up point 5 again?

It seems I did misunderstand the context of the situation...I was under the impression that you were contesting that Dastrn was shot by the Vig...apologies.

I answered your question, however. I share SL's sentiments that Vig should not reveal himself, whether or not he has shot already.

Now, answer me this: despite what me and Omni have presented against Chibo, you don't find Chibo's behavior to be suspicious in the slightest. Why do you feel he isn't suspicious? Why do you feel that he is not independent or scum, based on what has been said thus far?

Apology accepted. Implications often get confusing.

But you said you answered my question. I'm confused because I don't remember asking you a question that that can be an answer for. The only question I want answered is how you planned on figuring out who was protected.

To be exact on my Chibo opinion, I feel there is little chance of him being scum but the possibility of him being an independent is more likely. Overall, though, I don't think he is a threat and I think the town should look elsewhere for the time being.

I'm curious as to your opinion on Omni at the moment.


Other than all that, I'm kind of tired of arguing with the same three people over and over. I'll have to check the post times but I believe that there are several people who haven't posted in the last two days. There's a lot to go over now, I want to hear from everyone.

I will answer any questions or comments directed at me as long as they're specific. But there's a lot that can be addressed right now and I'm gonna sit back for now until we hear where everyone is at.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Shadow: First off, I said you implied it, not that you said it.

It sounds more like you looked too deeply into my words for a meaning that was not there,

Next, nice try, but the whole thing I said to you about Chibo had nothing to do with the Vig claiming scenerio. It was just something you kind of threw in there though it didn't need to be.

how so?
Simply making a declaration without an explanation leavesme a bit curious as to what you were referring.

Omni: (And Shadow to a lesser extent) So a vig kills reflex and suddenly the votes that were cast on him have no meaning anymore? That's just ridiculous.

you're going off on a tangent that was not at all implied nor said.
Why are you skirting about it?

As for the question, when did I ever say that I think a vig shot Dastrn?

You implied it.

 

[BarDulL]

Apology accepted. Implications often get confusing.

But you said you answered my question. I'm confused because I don't remember asking you a question that that can be an answer for. The only question I want answered is how you planned on figuring out who was protected.

To be exact on my Chibo opinion, I feel there is little chance of him being scum but the possibility of him being an independent is more likely. Overall, though, I don't think he is a threat and I think the town should look elsewhere for the time being.

I'm curious as to your opinion on Omni at the moment.

I had a plan?

It would certainly be interesting to see what we would find if we could prove that the Vig shot Dastrn (which in turn means Mafia's attack was blocked) while finding out who was protected. However, the only way to do this is if someone role claims doctor...or, of course, someone claims to have been protected.

Obviously, Town can't do this...which furthers my original point: talking about a potential Vigilante in this scenario does no favors for Town.

Omni is...Omni. There are some things that he has done that merit interest, but I do not have anything solid at the moment that I can use to properly align him. He is, however, being very pro-town recently from what I've seen.

 

[Red Arremer]

Bardull: Swordgard, Scamp (2)
adumbrodeus: Shaya (1)
Hilt: Edrees (1)
DarkMusician: Chibo (1)
Reflex: .joel, Darkmusician, Hilt (3)
Chibo: Omni, Bardull (2)

It takes 8 to lynch.

 

[swordgard]

I would just like to point out a few things but first:
Was cyan or w/e his name was evil in ff6?

Also for flavor, I think we do need to pay attention to flavor, but for this we need to figure this out.

Are the evil characters from ff6 the mafia, or has only good roles been given out and some of these just turn out to be mafia? Example, in FF6, pretend A,B,C,D are good and E is evil. Is there an E in this game which is mafia, or only A,B,C,D and OS just made C be mafia? This would help us figure out who is mafia if we happen to lynch one.

Btw sorry for inactiveness, I am trying to rent a venue for my next tourney so I have been busy yesterday night.



unvote
vote: Swordgard


I will give a proper vote this afternoon, atm I'm at school so I don't have that much time to read.

FOS: Edrees

 

[Red Arremer]

Going by the introduction post, only hero roles have been given.

There was no specifically evil character in the playable cast.
Celes was on the side of the bad guys, but switched to good (very good to be exact).
Shadow was a mercenary.

Those are the only two characters that somehow could be related to evil - but I doubt this matters anyhow.

 

[Scamp]

Swordgard and .joel, what the hell? Swordgard comes in with flavor that's pointless, and .joel replies to it and says it's pointless. Awesome.

We can't make any assumptions on mafia character roles until we kill some mafia and see.

Simply making a declaration without an explanation leavesme a bit curious as to what you were referring.


you're going off on a tangent that was not at all implied nor said.
Why are you skirting about it?

The whole Chibo thing brought up by you that made no sense to me was a reference to this post...

Nooooooooooooooo.
not that there isn't anything, but that there wasn't enough.
The vigilante would ahave been shooting blindfolded.

It became even more of an issue when Chibo used his ability.
There wouldn't have been anything gained for town if a vigilante had killed Dastrn.
It is a possibilty, but it would have been an awful idea.

And the "tangent that was not at all implied nor said" refers to this one...

@scamp: oh gee what do we have here:
1.) paper trail of people who voted Reflex
2.) paper trail of people who didn't vote Reflex
3.) did reflex flip scum? lets look at the late bandwagoners/most likely scum
4.) did reflex flip town? lets look at the early wagoners/most likely scum
5.) did reflex flip scum? lets see if his partners attempted to defend him before bussing him

the point is that i can go on and on. now lets say vig shoots Relfex at night (with Dastrn also dying)

1.) reflex flips vanilla. is there an sk? is there a vig? why are there two deaths?
2.) reflex flips scum. is there an sk? is there a vig? why are there two deaths?

.... that's it. there's nothing information you can get from a vig kill UNLESS vig hits scum which in Day 1 is extremely rare and highly inprobable. hence why i said it's a gamble.

@Shaya: why the hell are you rolefishing?

You clear now?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Gonna be gone almost all of today and tomorrow. I might try to get on with my phone or various computers, but that most likely won't be the case. So if nothing else I'll catch up on what I'll miss on Sunday, when I get home.

 

[Omni]

Talking about flavor needs to stop immediately.

FoS: .joel

Again, nothing is confirmed until it happens. Making assumptions based off the game and its mechanics has no merit. Overswarm could make the best good guys mafia and some of the not so good guys town. Stop debating it because it gets us absolutely no where and we need to move somewhere.

@Scamp: You gettin' on the Chibo wagon or what?

 

[Red Arremer]

I was simply answering swordgard's question. That is all.

 

[Omni]

stop entertaining questions that have no point. waste of time and waste of space and makes the person who asked and the person who answered look as if they're contributing/participating. really good and often used scum tactics is to blend in by answering semantical questions and appearing to be useful without ever really committing to a certain ideal

@.joel: reflex is inactive. for some reason i scared you into voting DarkM over Hilt. who do you think is the play based on activity and behavior outside of those 3?

 

[Red Arremer]

@.joel: who do you think is the play based on activity and behavior outside of those 3?

I don't understand this question. Can you re-phrase it?

 

[Omni]

outside of reflex/hilt/darkm, who do u think is the play? meaning... who do you consider a good lynch candidate for toDay

 

[Red Arremer]

Oh, you mean outside of the inactives, whom I would lynch?
Following all what happened until now, I would say Chibo. He most likely is independent, and his power will, in the long run, not really help us finding scum like at all.

 

[Red Arremer]

Bardull: Scamp (1)
swordgard: swordgard (1)
adumbrodeus: Shaya (1)
Hilt: Edrees (1)
DarkMusician: Chibo (1)
Reflex: .joel, Darkmusician, Hilt (3)
Chibo: Omni, Bardull (2)

It takes 8 to lynch.

 

[Omni]

can you give a reason that isn't flavor based?

basically, i want people to stop forcing votes and jumping to conclusions because of flavor. im asking who do you think is the best lynch candidate based on their behavior and activity; not what you are guessing based on flavor

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Why the hell is Chibo most likely independent?? Shadowlink spouted that earlier and it made absolutely no sense. The likelihood of him turning up Indy is just as probable as him turning up mafia.

Give a better reason of why you think Chibo is scum, not what faction he is. You didn't actually say anything about him that you found scummy.

 

[Red Arremer]

Hm. That is a difficult question. Quite a few people have made statements that could be considered suspicious.
But I guess my main "victims" are Scamp, ShadowLink, and adumbrodeus.

Scamp seems to continue with his vig-emphasis. I'm not sure why he keeps bringing up a role that we don't know it exists. ShadowLink is continueing debating with him, so I'm not entirely sure what to think of these 2.
Adumbrodeus hasn't really been making statements since the very beginning of toDay, defended himself against the case that was made against him, and since then is laying low. Not sure what to think of this, either.

 

[Scamp]

Lol at me continuing with vig-emphasis. You're not really reading this game, are you?

 

[BarDulL]

I would just like to point out a few things but first:
Was cyan or w/e his name was evil in ff6?

Also for flavor, I think we do need to pay attention to flavor, but for this we need to figure this out.

Are the evil characters from ff6 the mafia, or has only good roles been given out and some of these just turn out to be mafia? Example, in FF6, pretend A,B,C,D are good and E is evil. Is there an E in this game which is mafia, or only A,B,C,D and OS just made C be mafia? This would help us figure out who is mafia if we happen to lynch one.

Btw sorry for inactiveness, I am trying to rent a venue for my next tourney so I have been busy yesterday night.



unvote
vote: Swordgard


I will give a proper vote this afternoon, atm I'm at school so I don't have that much time to read.

FOS: Edrees

Hmm...I am curious to know two things from this.

How will this information help Town?

How do you intend on finding out anyone else's identity?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I"m not gonna touch on the vigilante business seeing as how that issue is set aside since you guys were going nowhere with that.

Talking about flavor needs to stop immediately.

FoS: .joel

Again, nothing is confirmed until it happens. Making assumptions based off the game and its mechanics has no merit. Overswarm could make the best good guys mafia and some of the not so good guys town. Stop debating it because it gets us absolutely no where and we need to move somewhere.

@Scamp: You gettin' on the Chibo wagon or what?

I need some clarification. When you guys say things are based on "flavor" do you mean based on predisposed and assumed roles and alignments, rather than based on activity, behavior and posting patterns? That seems to be the distinction but I'd like full clarification. I thought it would be good to accuse and look for scum based on both of these accounts, but you guys seem to be heavily against it because Mafia gets information. Is that because Mafia gets information on who are the stronger/better ability using town members so if their roles/characters are figured out Mafia would go for them first? I just want to know your reasoning on why doing things on "flavor" is no good - this is to Scamp and Omni, who seem to be against it based on experience. You should explain why it's not a good idea to the rest of us.

Notice that those of us newer to the game (Shaya and myself) have been trying to figure out rules, and who is what character, but those who have played the game are wanting to avoid the subject. I Just want to make sure it IS because of experience and not because you guys are secretly mafia and it would be to your disadvantage. It seems to be doing things on flavor could expose mafia as much as it could expose townspeople to the Mafia. You guys are saying that we can't make assumptions on the game's mechanics, but its not like we're gonna lynch someone on that assumption, we are just trying to get closer to the truth by discussing it. So we won't act based on that assumption, but I don't see why it's a bad idea to talk about - apparantly its a bad idea because it helps Mafia, so I'm asking why exactly does it help mafia more than it helps town?

To touch another point, I personally think when Chibo used his snare, that it was good for town. If I was against town, I would be way too scared to just throw my ability out there ON someone who appears to be trying to help town (Omni) I honestly think he was sincerely thinking that Omni was getting too much control and power, and letting one person influence the game too much. I felt that way a little bit too initially, so I can see his concerns. I don't like the idea of one or two people leading all discussion and bandwagoning, it could be very dangerous if they turned out to be Mafia. It doesn't mean I think his actions have helped town but I think the motivation and reasoning he gave was in the interests of town.

Unvote
Vote Reflex

Swordgard - Saw you throw the FoS at me, but no explanation as to why?

 

[BarDulL]

I"m not gonna touch on the vigilante business seeing as how that issue is set aside since you guys were going nowhere with that.



I need some clarification. When you guys say things are based on "flavor" do you mean based on predisposed and assumed roles and alignments, rather than based on activity, behavior and posting patterns? That seems to be the distinction but I'd like full clarification. I thought it would be good to accuse and look for scum based on both of these accounts, but you guys seem to be heavily against it because Mafia gets information. Is that because Mafia gets information on who are the stronger/better ability using town members so if their roles/characters are figured out Mafia would go for them first? I just want to know your reasoning on why doing things on "flavor" is no good - this is to Scamp and Omni, who seem to be against it based on experience. You should explain why it's not a good idea to the rest of us.

Notice that those of us newer to the game (Shaya and myself) have been trying to figure out rules, and who is what character, but those who have played the game are wanting to avoid the subject. I Just want to make sure it IS because of experience and not because you guys are secretly mafia and it would be to your disadvantage. It seems to be doing things on flavor could expose mafia as much as it could expose townspeople to the Mafia. You guys are saying that we can't make assumptions on the game's mechanics, but its not like we're gonna lynch someone on that assumption, we are just trying to get closer to the truth by discussing it. So we won't act based on that assumption, but I don't see why it's a bad idea to talk about - apparantly its a bad idea because it helps Mafia, so I'm asking why exactly does it help mafia more than it helps town?

To touch another point, I personally think when Chibo used his snare, that it was good for town. If I was against town, I would be way too scared to just throw my ability out there ON someone who appears to be trying to help town (Omni) I honestly think he was sincerely thinking that Omni was getting too much control and power, and letting one person influence the game too much. I felt that way a little bit too initially, so I can see his concerns. I don't like the idea of one or two people leading all discussion and bandwagoning, it could be very dangerous if they turned out to be Mafia. It doesn't mean I think his actions have helped town but I think the motivation and reasoning he gave was in the interests of town.

Unvote
Vote Reflex

Swordgard - Saw you throw the FoS at me, but no explanation as to why?

The reason why we can't rely on the flavor is because...well, look at the flavor. Apparently, X number of Heroes from FF6 are now betraying the rest of the Heroes. Knowing someone's identity does not help Town, because Town can not distinguish a character's alignment based on the flavor alone. This is because there is a possibility that the character in question is one of the "betrayers." So, in other words, every character is a candidate for being scum.

The reason why it is potentially harmful to town is that we can't verify at this time whether or not there is a Mafioso with a power that can be used when they know the identity of a player.

 

[BarDulL]

EBWOP: The reason why exposing someone's identity is potentially harmful to town is that**

 

[BarDulL]

Frankly, Chibo has been detrimental to Town, and has so far been pretty unhelpful and useless.

I am 90%+ certain at this point Chibo is not Town aligned.

On another note, I find it very interesting that he hasn't posted since things started to heat up for him.

Anyway, If someone is being unhelpful and is detrimental to Town, isn't that all the reason we need to tighten the noose?

 

[BarDulL]

Not to mention, the use of his ability was completely uncalled for. Whether or not he felt Omni was taking control of the actions of the new players does not warrant ability use, but dissent in the form of words. Taking away a vote only prevents us from seeing how players would normally vote.

One other thing that has me bothered about his play was his "scum team defense" post towards me. Not only was it weird, but his reasoning made no sense at all.

 

[Omni]

i don't want to quote this anymore

Oh, and by the by? Keep your identity secret. Trust me on that one. Don't give out your character name, ability, nothing.

this is a HUGE warning that normally isn't given by hosts. more than likely scum will be able to do some really nasty things or get really good advantages by learning who we are. this is naturally true in all mafia games but seems to be even more apparent in this game.

let me explain flavor and why it is dangerous.

flavor is talking about the technical and outlying aspects of the game. in a vanilla game of mafia there is town and mafia. there is no theme (final fantasy) and the characters are simply generic titles. now take that game of vanilla mafia and throw a title and characters. it is still the SAME game. however, the host can purposely give identities to certain players that clash with their role. for example, to throw people off host may make the main good guy Locke be the main bad guy in order to force players to concentrate on the actual core concept of the game.

unless evidence is 100% confirmed (rare and usually happens end game) relying on flavor, what ifs, roles, and powers will always always always benefit the mafia. it helps them to narrow down their nightkills to players who may have more powerful roles.

so when you're not discussing flavor how do you play mafia? simple. you look at behavior. you look at posting habits. you look at connections and disconnections. realize that at the core of this game there are 2-3 people who are deliberately trying to confuse us. they are working together as a team and is up to town to figure distinguish who that team is while avoiding being killed and/or lynched. look for slips, subtle hints, small giveways that give off the impression that a person is being dishonest or their intentions are not for the greater good. THESE are the points that people need to focus on in order to catch mafia.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm not gonna be able to finish this up in time, got home late from work [/johns]



But my character's ability gives me the power to pass it on as sort of a dying message, so if I get offed tonight (which I completely expect), you'll get to see it anyway.



Furthermore, a little more information, Cyan is town-aligned, period.

 

[Omni]

*ultimate face palm*

its like you read my previous post and deliberately attempted to do the opposite of what was being said

 

[adumbrodeus]

You'll see why if/when mafia (you) offs me tonight.


Well, assuming they do.


Also, anyone within lynching range atm? I don't see a point in attempting to push for a lynch for omni at the moment without my massive essay to back it up.

 

[Scamp]

Not finish this up in time? The deadline is a week from today.

A week isn't enough time?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Not finish this up in time? The deadline is a week from today.

A week isn't enough time?

...

Wait, I thought he pushed it up and it was 3 today.