Banning Dedede's infinite? FIRST POST UPDATED WITH VIDEO.

[HeroMystic]

BRAWL IS NOT FUN AT A COMPETITIVE LEVEL UNLESS YOU REALLY LIKE CHAINGRABS, CAMPING, LEDGECAMPING, AND HAVING BADLY BALANCED CHARACTERS LIKE METAKNIGHT AND SNAKE PWN VIRTUALLY ALL THE CAST.

lol, this post is full of win.

 

[Luigi player]

Just to let you know, it was quite unfair for a character like Bowser to fight Sheik in Melee.

We don't ban stuff just to increase a character's viability; we ban stuff when said thing becomes the ONLY viable option in tournament play.

This is Brawl and not Melee. Stop coming up with this thing.

All broken things in Melee you said where on really bad characters anyways, but this is on characters that would be viable otherwise. It also takes no skill for the Dedede and in Melee there at least was a CHANCE. It's not like that with Dedede.

this is the kind of things that happen when you play badly designed games competitively
either pick the play to win everything is fair side
or pick the casual i don't care who wins i just wanna have fun side

BRAWL IS NOT FUN AT A COMPETITIVE LEVEL UNLESS YOU REALLY LIKE CHAINGRABS, CAMPING, LEDGECAMPING, AND HAVING BADLY BALANCED CHARACTERS LIKE METAKNIGHT AND SNAKE PWN VIRTUALLY ALL THE CAST.

Well if everyone would think like that everyone would probably only play MK and Snake.
I'm glad it's not like that so don't try to be cool and say something like this.

I'm sure not many people would play the game if it was like that and all that would play like that would probably stop because it would get too ****ing boring.

You have to make the game enjoyable for others aswell or they won't participate.

 

[Hive]

I didn't read all the 24 pages, so sorry if i missed that: How can you ban Dededes infinite without banning ICs infinite?

these were some of the reasons people said between ICs and Infinites- not saying whether i agree with all of them or not though ^^

-The ICs grab range is ridiculously smaller and actually has the potential to be somewhat avoidable both from its range and desynching them.
-The ICs grabs are outweighed by their inability to recover well and ability to desynch them off the stage.
-The ICs rely on the grabs a lot more in their metagame and even with their infinites on all characters their placings are only somewhat mediocre.
-They don't have the same outweighed matchup effect on any particular characters that DDDs does
-The difficulty of them (and character specific) lessens the extent to which someone with a lot less skill can beat someone with a lot more skill.

 

[Genome Squirrel]

\Well if everyone would think like that everyone would probably only play MK and Snake.I'm glad it's not like that so don't try to be cool and say something like this.

there's no rational reason for us not to use high tier. luckily we're all irrational enough to buy a wii. how could you buy a gamecube or wii and not be a nintendo fanboy,besides cost? and smash is filled with characters from all our favorite games. i love fanboydom, its probably the only reason i like this community.

 

[Master Knight DH]

Boy you really hate pit's arrows

If you name one projectile that's anywhere near as abusive, I'll consider. And no, PSI Thunder and Snake's grenades do not count when a Slowpoke--yes, the Pokemon--can learn how to evade them.

 

[Hive]

way offtopic but ok.. ^^ pit's arrows aren't THAT bad... i'd say pikmin or samus zair/missile (if zairs count) or even tLinks boomerang double arrow spams are much harder to get by...
did someone really try to compare this to DDDs infinite <.< that's absurd

 

[Master Knight DH]

way offtopic but ok.. ^^ pit's arrows aren't THAT bad... i'd say pikmin or samus zair/missile (if zairs count) or even tLinks boomerang double arrow spams are much harder to get by...
did someone really try to compare this to DDDs infinite <.< that's absurd

Pikmin.....just attack Olimar and be done with his little guys. Samus's missiles can be dodged far more easily and the Z-Air is only mid range. TL's boomerangs and arrows are still slow and the arrows still fire horizontally.

You're right the comparison is absurd. Dedede's infinite uses a close-range option, when Dedede already punishes approaches in general. Pit's arrows are long range. Even then, Dedede.......honestly, if in the next SSB his approach punishment gets toned down a bit and his approaching gets toned up slightly but WITH the CG dropped, he'd be cleaned up.

 

[Kitamerby]

BRAWL IS NOT FUN AT A COMPETITIVE LEVEL UNLESS YOU REALLY LIKE CHAINGRABS, CAMPING, LEDGECAMPING, AND HAVING BADLY BALANCED CHARACTERS LIKE METAKNIGHT AND SNAKE PWN VIRTUALLY ALL THE CAST.

*looks at post*
*looks at join date*
Ah.

I am a Lucario Main and Falco secondary (although I suck with Falco still ^^). I can chain palm and chain grab Dedede, so overall the chaingrab/ infinite doesn't both me all that much.

Force Palm can be broken out like a normal grab. Anybody who knows this won't be grabbed more than twice in a row by Lucario. Also, DDD is arguably Lucario's worst matchup. :\

Anyways, if your character gets infinited, boo hoo. It's a risk you had to take when you decided to main them. Switch characters or use them as a counterpick if you really are that worried about it. Tough luck. Sheik's chaingrab worked on over half the cast in Melee, last I checked, yet for some reason it wasn't banned. Why would we ban it if it only works on 5 characters? Sheik's Melee chaingrab allowed people to DI, but the point of the matter is that the results stayed the same. Sheik 0-Deathed people.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Once again, same issue. We see something that we cannot get by, and after few trials, we just resort to banning it. Seriously, find a way around it. This is basically the same argument with MK being banned. Don't get grabbed if it's annoying you that much. You can only chain grab 5 times before you have to let them go in a tournament anyways, and if your friends do it, just remind them that they can't win a real fight without spam grabs. It's gross that every single time we see something like this we automatically resort to banning it. Eventually they're going to ban jumping because Falco jumps higher than the others! Oh no! Really.

 

[cutter]

Anyways, if your character gets infinited, boo hoo. It's a risk you had to take when you decided to main them. Switch characters or use them as a counterpick if you really are that worried about it. Tough luck. Sheik's chaingrab worked on over half the cast in Melee, last I checked, yet for some reason it wasn't banned. Why would we ban it if it only works on 5 characters?

This pretty much agrees with my thoughts.

 

[SothE700k]

lol, but 3 posts really is not much >_>

Like I said it's not understandable for me that some people don't want this banned o_O

1. It takes no real skill
2. it completely destroys some characters and nearly making them useless
3. it's an infinite that WILL happen unless you're a spacing GOD and WAY better than your opponent.

This stupid **** should be banned.

This is argument enough and some people seem to be too dumb to get that it is really stupid and should be banned (which I can't understand because how can someone be such an egoist?).

Even if there would be ways around it I'd still want it banned because it's too unfair.


Like seriously how stupid can one be to not want this banned? I just don't get it in my head.
It just makes no sense...


The only reasons you could have to not want this banned:
1) You have a problem with those characters and want an easy and gay way to win over people who are better than you WHICH SHOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE
2) You're an egoist and/or hate those characters

A) Hello, I have chaingrabbed people with DDD and Falco (Falco being my better character but regardless), and the better person still won. Them.
B) I'm just coming to like Samus now, DK is a beast in the jungle, and I grew up on Mario and Luigi in almost every way possible. Don't resort to personal attacks because you can't come up with a good argument. Case and point, you.

Around my friends, I have been told that I have an ego and that I can be very cocky. But in tournaments or other people who play Brawl, I get to the point where I lack confidence.

Oh, and I want to requote this.
"Even if there would be ways around it I'd still want it banned because it's too unfair."
Doesn't that translate to "Ban it because I can't beat it"?

Ok, lets make this very, very simple. How about...do what the good players do. Stop complaining, save yourself the argument, and learn how to space a bit better and use other tools properly. I get edgehogged and spiked, do you see me making obnoxious threads to everyone saying "We need to ban edgehogging and spiking because I can't get past it!"?

 

[Genome Squirrel]

Once again, same issue. We see something that we cannot get by, and after few trials, we just resort to banning it. Seriously, find a way around it. This is basically the same argument with MK being banned. Don't get grabbed if it's annoying you that much. You can only chain grab 5 times before you have to let them go in a tournament anyways, and if your friends do it, just remind them that they can't win a real fight without spam grabs. It's gross that every single time we see something like this we automatically resort to banning it. Eventually they're going to ban jumping because Falco jumps higher than the others! Oh no! Really.

this topic is based on 6 or so characters DDD can combo to death.
ddd kills most of them easily without the death chaingrab.
not that i wish to see it banned

 

[Hive]

its funny really.. ^^ out of all the DDD, Dk, bowser, samus, mario, and luigi mains here
ppl who want the ban outweigh ppl who don't 6:1 or more... ^^

 

[Stray Element]

Why!?

I'm failing to see why people are defending this...
Banning D3's standing infinite is not going to destroy his meta game, hell it will not make any difference at all to him unless the 5 characters it works on suddenly learn sure fire ways to 0-->death D3. All this ban would do is make the game more playable for those 5 characters.

To those of you who are defending it (lack of better things to do I assume), the "don't get grabbed" argument is BS. Until someone posts a video of them taking Seibrik's challenge to not get grabbed, and winning.... STOP USING THIS ARGUMENT!

To those who say "just counter pick with a different character", that does not mean that you will win your 2nd match (assuming D3 destroyed one of the 5 in the first match). Essentially it just means that your second match is in your favor, but then the 3rd match will be his counter pick, so now its in his favor. That still gives 2/3 matches in favor of the D3 player winning.

STOP comparing Brawl to Melee! (In case some of you haven't noticed, they aren't the same game)
STOP comparing Brawl to other popular fighter games!
STOP saying that the IC infinite should be banned if D3's is banned! (The IC infinities require technical skill to actually perform, not merely grab, grab attack, down throw, repeat. [Well actually that is basically the same thing, but the timing and practice that is required to do it consistently, on top of the IC horrible grab range, plus the requirement of having Nana with you makes it much more difficult.])

Also.... STOP BRINGING MK INTO THIS! This isn't the MK banning thread and posts saying "D3 infinite doesn't need banning... MK DOES!!!111" don't belong here.

Also as to HeroMystic's idea about the cake... that sounds like an awesome idea, just don't give any to Samus, we don't want her to look like this next time she's done firing her Zero Laser. http://www.animexpansion.com/Art/Revolver/ZeroSuitSamusRevolver.jpg

Oh yea, and this is my first post I lurk more than I should.

 

[Hive]

Also as to HeroMystic's idea about the cake... that sounds like an awesome idea, just don't give any to Samus, we don't want her to look like this next time she's done firing her Zero Laser. http://www.animexpansion.com/Art/Revolver/ZeroSuitSamusRevolver.jpg
.

dammit strayelement! i want my cake! @.@
lol

ps for a first post you know ^^ its actually well though out :D

 

[JigglyZelda003]

and its still looping.........

the solution to avoiding the cg has been told like plenty of times, but its getting no where. maybe the antiban people should just stop posting anyway. since its up to whoevers hosting the tourney and the SBR to decide on ban or not. really i see no point in banning it since in general those characters still kinda lose the match its just they get a handicap helper w/ ban. and theres other unfair things in brawl anyway. one ban leads to another and the ban cycle continues.

*waits for next 5 proban post in 30 minutes*

 

[Kitamerby]

this topic is based on 6 or so characters DDD can combo to death.
ddd kills most of them easily without the death chaingrab.
not that i wish to see it banned

Other than Luigi (who can't be CG'd normally), even if DDD only CG'd the other 5 characters, he'd probably still have a large advantage over them. How is one supposed to ban the infinite, anyways? Ban DDD from CGing 5 characters in place? He can just take a step each time. Ban DDD from CGing 5 characters altogether? That's punishing DDD because his chaingrab is too good. Ban DDD from chaingrabbing X amount of times? How are you supposed to enforce that? Does the person get a free jab combo for each time they go over the limit? Do they tell the host that the DDD grabbed 5 times instead of the allowed 4 and that they should have a rematch because of it?

Banning the infinite will take too much time, effort, and possibly manpower to monitor each match with a DDD, due to DDD's sheer popularity.

Personally, if it was possible, I'd be all for limiting DDD's "infinite" to 4 grabs at a time, which is about the average amount of grabs it takes to cover a stage, which would force the DDD to chaingrab normally if he wants to put them in an advantageous position (offstage), while at the same time allowing him to do it even facing towards the edge. In other words, DDD keeps his major advantage on those characters, but they have an illusion of hope because of the limit, which would be enough to keep everyone from complaining.

Keep the Wario CG, though. Wario's a jerk. D:<

However, by limiting one CG, you're being "unfair" to some of those those 5 characters by allowing them a free get-out-of-jail-free card, while other characters, especially Bowser, Fox, and DK get pseudo-infinited in the form of 0-Deaths from other character's CGs or simple combos (such as ZSS's Dsmash chain on Fox). Eventually, you have to limit those, too. Then, someone will discover a true 0-Death combo for some characters. Why allow that to stay, when you already banned all the other 0-Deaths? So ban that too. So yeah, by banning only DDD's infinite, you're playing favorites by not banning all the other infinites and 0-Death combos as well.

 

[8AngeL8]

^That's the words of a wise man, there.

 

[Andurian]

Yup, that is true. Of course, that is why I only suggest that if MetaKnight is banned.

Luigi player: Nice name, very descriptive ^^.

Anyway, no, I have not experienced a ridiculous chain grab like that. I did have the opportunity of watching my friend, Heromystic on the forums here, get chaingrabbed first match, as well as another friend get chaingrabbed by the same exact player. I have to say though, they did make mistakes (choosing Final Destination?) and I am curious about something.

I remember testing and seeing something on the forums. If two players grab at eachother, the one with the lower controller port wins the grab. In case of Dedede, that could mean a lot. This is akin to Bowser's Suicide (when grabbing a certain port (forget if it's higher or lower) he stays alive and the game counts it as a win, but not vice-versa). Also, if someone gets hit and grabs at the same time, they get hit but still grab (it's interesting). I think that may also be related to the controller port... and it may influence who can be chain grabbed. I remember my friend, as Marth, tried to Delphine Slash (is that the right name), to get out. He hit Dedede, but was still grabbed. If the controller port matters like that, it may be important for the other to grab a specific controller port during the match.

May effect the infinite... not sure though. That's why it may need testing from a non-noob (aka: not me).

 

[Deleted member]

I thought I already owned this topic? What else can you guys possibly be debating?

 

[Hive]

kitamerby is smart ^^
@Jigglyzelda300- pro-ban arguments have sorta died down though b/c most have already said everything they wanted to and are now just repeating themselves continuously as the same arguments have come up....

but to answer your points kitamerby ^^
banning the infinite shouldn't be hard at all i don't think... I personally think that stalling is more of a blurry line then infiniting is.... it wouldn't be too hard to put in a cg # count... or even to have a ban against small stepping.... like always it could come up to a tourney official if there is a problem there wouldn't need to be a monitor at each station i don't think.... but still that's just an opinion other tournies who ban infinites though don't seem to have too much of a problem with it at all though... if that is any indication.

yep ddd would still have a large advantage over these characters too ^^ however there is a large difference between being ***** in a match and being infinited to death ^^ at least if the infinites were banned the match would be somewhat dependent on skill and not totally at the mercy of the other player to mess up his infinite... which is very unlikely with brickwalling. ^^ I think a lot of the 5 characters wouldn't mind being at a disadvantage ^^ character's disadvantages will happen in any fighting game. the problem is that there is little to no chance they can win at all b/c of the infinites. and while being infinited there aren't any options at all, completely destroying a persons skill in the game
The other thing to consider is that even w/o infinites DDDs metagame is barely hindered at all....

And lastly DDDs infinite different from most other infinites, which is why the difference exists....
his grab range is HORRIBLE (long not bad)....he completely makes these matchups outweighed much more than other cgs do... his metagame isn't dependent on it... and he doesn't have any other real weaknesses which could compensate for the infinite...

 

[Hive]

@umberon lol they are debating most of the same topics lol except ppl have seem to forgotten all the answers from before @.@

 

[JigglyZelda003]

However, by limiting one CG, you're being "unfair" to some of those those 5 characters by allowing them a free get-out-of-jail-free card, .

they already have that card. its called MK.
they just don't wanna use it.


@Hive
you cheater you beat me in posting

lol

 

[Hive]

using mk as a counterpick won't work @.@
even if this sort of character selection is allowed....
p1=DDD p2=one of the 5 infinites
Your saying the 2nd player should be forced to counterpick... probably mk
now DDD is at a huge disadvantage.... he will now have to counterpick mk.... and it will probably be mk for lack of counters.
and here we are with an mk ditto....when a simple ban could allow both players to use their mains...

@jiggszelda- ^^ lol (sticks tongue out)

 

[JigglyZelda003]

@hive
i hope you saw my sarcasm in that post about MK lol >.>

 

[Hive]

@jigglyzelda300- oh lol I'm so sorry ^^ i'm sorta ditzy so that flew right over me lol
[*...*] <- robot
no fair! mindgames

 

[HeroMystic]

Stuff about people telling people to STFU

Stuff about contoller ports

lol @ crew members actually posting stuff.

And Samus mains get cake. I already showed one of them what it's gonna look like and she flipped.

 

[Hive]

oh btw ^^ anyone know if sbr is discussing the ban? or are they leaving it to TOs?

 

[link6616]

Only read the first page...

But isn't this issue entirely countered bythe 2/3 matches things, meaning that maybe in the double blind you would lose to DDD, but you might not aswell. Then, you lose, they DDD player picks, then you. Most people main one character and second 2-4 others, so why shouldn't people who main these 5 characters expect to get away with only 1 character. Yes, I'll admit that if thier secondies also suffered here too then it sucks to be them.

 

[link6616]

...and here we are with an mk ditto....when a simple ban could allow both players to use their mains...

There is no such thing as a simple ban. No such thing. Banning something must be very, very, clearly thought out.

Akuma from ST for instance, needed to be banned. O.Sagat, could have been banned, and was soft banned in Japan, but not here. And ST didn't suffer. Yes, it made some characters unplayable and as such, the japanese do have many more characters played.

Also, we are banning a technique here. Is DDDs d throw (or whatever) banned. Is it banned doing it 10 times, 100 times? If we set the limit for, 5 times lets say, then you do it five times, wait for the cool of period, then do it again (assuming it really is the best thing to do against those characters).

You could ban the match up I suppose, but that's just silly.

 

[XxBlackxX]

There is no such thing as a simple ban. No such thing. Banning something must be very, very, clearly thought out.

Akuma from ST for instance, needed to be banned. O.Sagat, could have been banned, and was soft banned in Japan, but not here. And ST didn't suffer. Yes, it made some characters unplayable and as such, the japanese do have many more characters played.

Also, we are banning a technique here. Is DDDs d throw (or whatever) banned. Is it banned doing it 10 times, 100 times? If we set the limit for, 5 times lets say, then you do it five times, wait for the cool of period, then do it again (assuming it really is the best thing to do against those characters).

You could ban the match up I suppose, but that's just silly.

yes, banning anything (character or technique) needs to be thought out. however, i dont think it's as difficult as you described. if TO's wanted to, they could just ban D3's standing infinite, and allowed the normal cg to the edge. however, there IS a hitch in that: i believe D3's "infinite" on bowser allows him to walk a little each time, so he will eventually still get to the edge, but after racking up a lot of damage.

 

[WastingPenguins]

I used to play Brawl every day as a dedicated DK main. Now I barely ever play, and a large part of it has to do with this infinite. Should any of you give a **** if I still play Brawl? Hell no. Just putting in my two cents: the infinite is the stupidest, brokenest bull**** in the universe and if you support its use you should put your face in a waffle iron.

 

[Flayl]

link6616 & XxBlackxX:That has already been discussed and is the easiest part of the ban.

 

[HeroMystic]

Can't believe I missed this...

Other than Luigi (who can't be CG'd normally), even if DDD only CG'd the other 5 characters, he'd probably still have a large advantage over them.

Lol, no.

Well, not for Mario anyways.

 

[Kitamerby]

yes, banning anything (character or technique) needs to be thought out. however, i dont think it's as difficult as you described. if TO's wanted to, they could just ban D3's standing infinite, and allowed the normal cg to the edge. however, there IS a hitch in that: i believe D3's "infinite" on bowser allows him to walk a little each time, so he will eventually still get to the edge, but after racking up a lot of damage.

Alright. So D3 starts taking one step forwards every time he makes a grab. Voila. 4 characters can still be taking huge chunks of damage with each grab, and if you happen to be facing inwards towards the stage... Well, you might as well just have kept the infinite. :\ Also, reporting a violation becomes a problem, as well. Do you call for a rematch because the DDD accidentally grabbed you 5 or 6 times instead of 4? What if you're lying, and the DDD never violated the rule? Should you get free damage if they do violate this rule? What if your opponent denies doing the extra grabs? What if your opponent's friend comes and says he didn't do those extra grabs even if he did? What if your opponent didn't realize the infinite was banned? Why should only DDD have his infinites banned, and not Wario, who's infinited by a large sum of the cast? What about Fox? He doesn't get infinited, but Zamus's Dsmash, and Pikachu's Dthrow can take him from 0-Death easily. What about Falco? Chainspiking can be considered a 0-Death, and works more effectively on some characters than others. What about D3's regular CG, where he can take somebody off the stage from anywhere and then gimp them for a KO? Why punish Dedede because his grab game is too good? Where do you draw the line?

When there's large sums of money on the line, you NEED to consider these options and more. Just simply saying that "DDD's infinite is banned at this tournament" is a ridiculous concept. You need to make sure it's idiot proof and sneakiness proof, or else you may as well have just kept the infinite.

In otherwords, as much as I'd like the competitive scene to be filled with countless characters of every tier, realistically, banning the infinite for Dedede is just playing favorites, and unless you put some serious thought into this, you're going to be making a bunch of people unhappy, even though the whole reason you banned them were to promote variety.

 

[CO18]

Alright. So D3 starts taking one step forwards every time he makes a grab. Voila. 4 characters can still be taking huge chunks of damage with each grab, and if you happen to be facing inwards towards the stage... Well, you might as well just have kept the infinite. :\ Also, reporting a violation becomes a problem, as well. Do you call for a rematch because the DDD accidentally grabbed you 5 or 6 times instead of 4? What if you're lying, and the DDD never violated the rule? Should you get free damage if they do violate this rule? What if your opponent denies doing the extra grabs? What if your opponent's friend comes and says he didn't do those extra grabs even if he did? What if your opponent didn't realize the infinite was banned? Why should only DDD have his infinites banned, and not Wario, who's infinited by a large sum of the cast? What about Fox? He doesn't get infinited, but Zamus's Dsmash, and Pikachu's Dthrow can take him from 0-Death easily. What about Falco? Chainspiking can be considered a 0-Death, and works more effectively on some characters than others. What about D3's regular CG, where he can take somebody off the stage from anywhere and then gimp them for a KO? Why punish Dedede because his grab game is too good? Where do you draw the line?

When there's large sums of money on the line, you NEED to consider these options and more. Just simply saying that "DDD's infinite is banned at this tournament" is a ridiculous concept. You need to make sure it's idiot proof and sneakiness proof, or else you may as well have just kept the infinite.

In otherwords, as much as I'd like the competitive scene to be filled with countless characters of every tier, realistically, banning the infinite for Dedede is just playing favorites, and unless you put some serious thought into this, you're going to be making a bunch of people unhappy, even though the whole reason you banned them were to promote variety.

Who the hell would be unhappy BESIDES d3 mains wanting to use a broken move and 95% of the d3 mains here are pro-ban.

I used to play Brawl every day as a dedicated DK main. Now I barely ever play, and a large part of it has to do with this infinite. Should any of you give a **** if I still play Brawl? Hell no. Just putting in my two cents: the infinite is the stupidest, brokenest bull**** in the universe and if you support its use you should put your face in a waffle iron.

Thats a prime example of why it should be banned.

And yes its VERY Easy to implement which is why most states in the Atlantic North have them banned no problem. Theres no 5 grab limit either. Its just you cant do it at all.

 

[Genome Squirrel]

banning should be a last resort, and despite his chain grabs ddd isn't the best character in brawl

 

[cutter]

Who the hell would be unhappy BESIDES d3 mains wanting to use a broken move and 95% of the d3 mains here are pro-ban.

D3's infinite is not broken because he does not infinite every single character with it. Just play another character instead. There are plenty of characters who don't get victimized by the infinite.

 

[Inui]

I thought I already owned this topic? What else can you guys possibly be debating?

QFT + I owned it too.

I don't see why anyone is comparing Dedede's infinites to anything in Melee, btw.

 

[Kitamerby]

Who the hell would be unhappy BESIDES d3 mains wanting to use a broken move and 95% of the d3 mains here are pro-ban.

First of all, 95% of D3 mains are NOT pro-ban. Stop pulling random numbers out of your butt.

Secondly...
1. Wario mains would be unhappy. They can still be infinited by D3 via grab release. Wario can still be infinited by who knows how many characters, and killed out of grab release from others. Why let Mario and Samus and Luigi run free, while poor Wario still gets ***** from grab releases? One of his worst matchups is Yoshi, for Heaven's sake.
2. Donkey Kong/Bowser players would be unhappy. Now, they are free to roam about and are free from the worry of the 9-1 matchup against Dedede. NOW, they have to deal with Wario. Wario has a Dthrow chaingrab to kill percent which can be combo'd into a Forward Smash for the kill. Why haven't you banned Wario's Dthrow chaingrab yet?
3. Fox mains would be unhappy. Fox still gets Dsmash-chained by Zamus and Chaingrabbed from 0-Death by Pikachu. Why the hell haven't you banned these two 0-deaths yet?
4. Wolf/Anyone who can't recover from a Falco Chainspike would be unhappy. Why the hell are D3's victims allowed to run free, while Falco still ***** the crap out of these poor souls cursed with a bad recovery and susceptibility to chaingrabs?
5. Anyone with a competitive mindset who was around to play Melee would be unhappy. Sheik chaingrabbed 0-Death over half the cast, yet it was allowed. Jigglypuff 0-Deathed Fox. Falcon 0-Deathed Fox. Marth 0-Deathed Fox. All of these 0-Deaths on Fox were allowed and Fox still became the #1 character, because he 0-Deathed EVERYONE. Ice Climbers 0-Deathed everyone with wobbling, yet for some odd, strange reason, Wobbling was allowed at most tournaments. With all of these 0-Deaths, the top 4 characters reigned supreme, and these people knew that, but they banned nothing character-specific aside from things that truly BROKE the game (ICs Freeze Glitch is the only thing that comes to mind). Melee then became one of the most popular fighting games of all time, and every character past Falco on the tier list really didn't matter much in the grand scale of things when it came to who was truly WINNING all of the big, national tournaments. These people know that banning the D3 chain grab is a quick-fix, and will mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things other than being a waste of manpower, a source of various complaints on "Hey! He infinited me!" "What? No I didn't! I took 3 steps!" and just plain being a waste of time to enforce.

TL;DR version: If D3's infinite gets banned, DK will not suddenly begin tearing tournaments a new one, and Mario will not suddenly leap to top tier, as they usually are still plastered down by the other top and high tiers, anyways.

Thats a prime example of why it should be banned.

Because some people can't adapt to the changing metagame and don't like the fact that their character has a matchup in which they shouldn't be using them? Tough buggers for him. Every time a Ness main goes to a tournament, he runs a risk of running into a Marth. Every time a Fox goes to a tournament, he runs the risk of running into a Pikachu. Every time Wolf goes to a tournament, he runs the risk of running into a Falco. Every time Olimar goes to a tournament, he runs the risk of running into a Peach. Every time Samus goes to a tournament, she runs the risk of running into a Lucario. Every time Ripple goes to a tournament, he runs the risk of running into a King Dedede.

And yes its VERY Easy to implement which is why most states in the Atlantic North have them banned no problem. Theres no 5 grab limit either. Its just you cant do it at all.

Tell me this: If there was 5,000 dollars on the line, would you, or would you not take 8 grabs each time and deny each one if it meant you had a better chance to win, or accuse your opponent of using 8 grabs each time if it meant you had a better chance to win? If you say no, you're either a saint, rich, live in a cave, or a horrible, horrible liar.

Can't believe I missed this...


Lol, no.

Well, not for Mario anyways.

I'm not going to go into the matchup myself, but even if it was just a normal chaingrab, it would still be an uphill battle for Mario. Mario would not suddenly **** Dedede if the infinite was banned. Luigi might, since he cannot be CG'd normally, but Mario would not.

I used to play Brawl every day as a dedicated DK main. Now I barely ever play, and a large part of it has to do with this infinite. Should any of you give a **** if I still play Brawl? Hell no. Just putting in my two cents: the infinite is the stupidest, brokenest bull**** in the universe and if you support its use you should put your face in a waffle iron.

If you're going to simply give up less than a year into the game, and not even TRY to get around this bad matchup by choosing a secondary, or practicing avoiding a D3 grab, then you deserve to quit. Simple as that. We don't need quitters like you in the Smash metagame, as harsh as that sounds.