Banning Dedede's infinite? FIRST POST UPDATED WITH VIDEO.

[Hive]

If you're going to simply give up less than a year into the game, and not even TRY to get around this bad matchup by choosing a secondary, or practicing avoiding a D3 grab, then you deserve to quit. Simple as that. We don't need quitters like you in the Smash metagame, as harsh as that sounds.

its nothing like that... i don't think there are any pro-ban ppl wanting to quite bc of this...

and most DDDs supporting the ban as well as most mains supporting the ban isn't "just pulled out of nowhere"
you can look back through this thread if you want but last time i checked which was like two pages ago...
DDD mains, and mains of the 5 characters infinited supported the ban over 6:1....

And I'm pretty sure DK and Bowser mains wouldn't be too traumatized to see it go kitamerby XD lol
its not like wario's cg is gonna start taking effect only after there is a ban lol

as for all of the other cgs that aren't DDDs you mentioned.... they've been explained a million times and i'm sorry but i don't feel like doing it again...
they aren't the same as DDDs grab at all... and sheik's is the least like it. <.<

 

[XxBlackxX]

First of all, 95% of D3 mains are NOT pro-ban. Stop pulling random numbers out of your butt.

Secondly...
1. Wario mains would be unhappy. They can still be infinited by D3 via grab release. Wario can still be infinited by who knows how many characters, and killed out of grab release from others. Why let Mario and Samus and Luigi run free, while poor Wario still gets ***** from grab releases? One of his worst matchups is Yoshi, for Heaven's sake.
2. Donkey Kong/Bowser players would be unhappy. Now, they are free to roam about and are free from the worry of the 9-1 matchup against Dedede. NOW, they have to deal with Wario. Wario has a Dthrow chaingrab to kill percent which can be combo'd into a Forward Smash for the kill. Why haven't you banned Wario's Dthrow chaingrab yet?
3. Fox mains would be unhappy. Fox still gets Dsmash-chained by Zamus and Chaingrabbed from 0-Death by Pikachu. Why the hell haven't you banned these two 0-deaths yet?
4. Wolf/Anyone who can't recover from a Falco Chainspike would be unhappy. Why the hell are D3's victims allowed to run free, while Falco still ***** the crap out of these poor souls cursed with a bad recovery and susceptibility to chaingrabs?
5. Anyone with a competitive mindset who was around to play Melee would be unhappy. Sheik chaingrabbed 0-Death over half the cast, yet it was allowed. Jigglypuff 0-Deathed Fox. Falcon 0-Deathed Fox. Marth 0-Deathed Fox. All of these 0-Deaths on Fox were allowed and Fox still became the #1 character, because he 0-Deathed EVERYONE. Ice Climbers 0-Deathed everyone with wobbling, yet for some odd, strange reason, Wobbling was allowed at most tournaments. With all of these 0-Deaths, the top 4 characters reigned supreme, and these people knew that, but they banned nothing character-specific aside from things that truly BROKE the game (ICs Freeze Glitch is the only thing that comes to mind). Melee then became one of the most popular fighting games of all time, and every character past Falco on the tier list really didn't matter much in the grand scale of things when it came to who was truly WINNING all of the big, national tournaments. These people know that banning the D3 chain grab is a quick-fix, and will mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things other than being a waste of manpower, a source of various complaints on "Hey! He infinited me!" "What? No I didn't! I took 3 steps!" and just plain being a waste of time to enforce.

TL;DR version: If D3's infinite gets banned, DK will not suddenly begin tearing tournaments a new one, and Mario will not suddenly leap to top tier, as they usually are still plastered down by the other top and high tiers, anyways.

agreed. totally. i would say that infinites ARE indeed cheap, but if banning this leads to banning other stuff or other people complaining, then it is stupid. just stupid and a waste of time. anyways, most of the characters D3 can infinite on are not gonna improve their chances at tournies or even this matchup (except maybe luigi) greatly even if this thing is banned.
you know people, brawl ISNT by any means a fair game. deal with it and move on...

 

[XxBlackxX]

its nothing like that... i don't think there are any pro-ban ppl wanting to quite bc of this...

and most DDDs supporting the ban as well as most mains supporting the ban isn't "just pulled out of nowhere"
you can look back through this thread if you want but last time i checked which was like two pages ago...
DDD mains, and mains of the 5 characters infinited supported the ban over 6:1....

And I'm pretty sure DK and Bowser mains wouldn't be too traumatized to see it go kitamerby XD lol
its not like wario's cg is gonna start taking effect only after there is a ban lol

of course not. it IS in the game now and will still be after the ban. i think the point he was trying to make was that if D3's infinites get banned, people will begin to look for other ways to counter DK and thus use wario.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

Guys guys guys let me summarize this whole thread right now..



The holocaust was ok at the time to the people it wasn't affecting, going at war with germany should just be a last resort, it'll be ok.



War=banning
people uneffected=not ddd/infinited characters
Switzerland=this thread

 

[JigglyZelda003]

well this thread just got a boost thanks to kitamerby lol.

 

[Kitamerby]

its nothing like that... i don't think there are any pro-ban ppl wanting to quite bc of this...

and most DDDs supporting the ban as well as most mains supporting the ban isn't "just pulled out of nowhere"
you can look back through this thread if you want but last time i checked which was like two pages ago...
DDD mains, and mains of the 5 characters infinited supported the ban over 6:1....

And I'm pretty sure DK and Bowser mains wouldn't be too traumatized to see it go kitamerby XD lol
its not like wario's cg is gonna start taking effect only after there is a ban lol

The statistic that 95% of King Dedede mains want the ban is definitely not true, because I doubt even 40% of good King Dedede mains that go to tournaments even go to Smashboards.

It's not that the DK and Bowser mains won't be unhappy that it's banned, it's just that they'll be complaining about a DIFFERENT CG, and then start crying about how THAT should be banned.

 

[Matador]

1. Wario mains would be unhappy. They can still be infinited by D3 via grab release. Wario can still be infinited by who knows how many characters, and killed out of grab release from others. Why let Mario and Samus and Luigi run free, while poor Wario still gets ***** from grab releases? One of his worst matchups is Yoshi, for Heaven's sake.
2. Donkey Kong/Bowser players would be unhappy. Now, they are free to roam about and are free from the worry of the 9-1 matchup against Dedede. NOW, they have to deal with Wario. Wario has a Dthrow chaingrab to kill percent which can be combo'd into a Forward Smash for the kill. Why haven't you banned Wario's Dthrow chaingrab yet?
3. Fox mains would be unhappy. Fox still gets Dsmash-chained by Zamus and Chaingrabbed from 0-Death by Pikachu. Why the hell haven't you banned these two 0-deaths yet?
4. Wolf/Anyone who can't recover from a Falco Chainspike would be unhappy. Why the hell are D3's victims allowed to run free, while Falco still ***** the crap out of these poor souls cursed with a bad recovery and susceptibility to chaingrabs?

Exactly the reason why I don't think it should be banned...well...amongst other things. The reasoning for banning it would apply for all of these things as well. I'm sure we'd rather not be up that river without a paddle when a Fox player decides they have it just as bad.

5. Anyone with a competitive mindset who was around to play Melee would be unhappy. Sheik chaingrabbed 0-Death over half the cast, yet it was allowed. Jigglypuff 0-Deathed Fox. Falcon 0-Deathed Fox. Marth 0-Deathed Fox. All of these 0-Deaths on Fox were allowed and Fox still became the #1 character, because he 0-Deathed EVERYONE. Ice Climbers 0-Deathed everyone with wobbling, yet for some odd, strange reason, Wobbling was allowed at most tournaments. With all of these 0-Deaths, the top 4 characters reigned supreme, and these people knew that, but they banned nothing character-specific aside from things that truly BROKE the game (ICs Freeze Glitch is the only thing that comes to mind). Melee then became one of the most popular fighting games of all time, and every character past Falco on the tier list really didn't matter much in the grand scale of things when it came to who was truly WINNING all of the big, national tournaments.

You're over-generalizing the entire game now? You can't possibly believe that Falcon or Marth's 0-deaths on Fox = D3's infinite. Especially since there's only a handful of high level players that could pull them off against a monkey wielding a control stick since he's have some knowledge of how to DI that we seem to be forgetting. Knowledge that'd mean nothing during D3's infinite since it makes no difference what you're doing with your controller if they don't screw up.

Same with ICs infinite argument...which has been beaten to death with reasons for why it's not even close to the same thing. Plus...it's melee. It's a different game. Why are you bringing this up?

TL;DR version: If D3's infinite gets banned, DK will not suddenly begin tearing tournaments a new one, and Mario will not suddenly leap to top tier, as they usually are still plastered down by the other top and high tiers, anyways.

I don't even think anyone hinted that banning D3's infinite would result in this. That's like yanking out some random's controller at a tourney with the reasoning "You won't be as good as M2K anyway". Doesn't change the fact that what you did (or what they're doing) is incredibly dense.

I'm not going to go into the matchup myself, but even if it was just a normal chaingrab, it would still be an uphill battle for Mario. Mario would not suddenly **** Dedede if the infinite was banned. Luigi might, since he cannot be CG'd normally, but Mario would not.

Yeah...I'm glad you're not going into the matchup.

 

[Veggi]

i hope so, its stupid, DDD infinite was debunked months ago in that old thread. the last what 10 pages is full of me vs Veggi arguing over it in that thread.

For the record it was never debunked and it was locked before I got to post again. I don't feel like arguing about it again, however. There were also a lot more people arguing about it.

 

[Kitamerby]

You're over-generalizing the entire game now? You can't possibly believe that Falcon or Marth's 0-deaths on Fox = D3's infinite. Especially since there's only a handful of high level players that could pull them off against a monkey wielding a control stick since he's have some knowledge of how to DI that we seem to be forgetting. Knowledge that'd mean nothing during D3's infinite since it makes no difference what you're doing with your controller if they don't screw up.

The skill needed to perform an infinite is irrelevant, since the end result is the same. All you're factoring in is the illusion of hope.

Same with ICs infinite argument...which has been beaten to death with reasons for why it's not even close to the same thing. Plus...it's melee. It's a different game. Why are you bringing this up?

If they're so different, then why in the world are most of the people winning tournaments old Melee pros? M2K, Azen, etc. surely are doing SOMETHING right...

I don't even think anyone hinted that banning D3's infinite would result in this. That's like yanking out some random's controller at a tourney with the reasoning "You won't be as good as M2K anyway". Doesn't change the fact that what you did (or what they're doing) is incredibly dense.

I'm not following you. I've stated that by banning the infinite, you aren't really helping them so much in the big picture, since they still get beaten down nearly as easily by the other popular top/high tiers.

 

[Inui]

Don't people understand that the infinites make Bowser and DK go 0/100 with Dedede.

Dedede is 100/0 with them.

They can't win.

They are no longer valid characters at all.

They can be beaten by an extremely easy, mindless technique.

Why would this not be banned?

 

[CO18]

First of all, 95% of D3 mains are NOT pro-ban. Stop pulling random numbers out of your butt.

Secondly...
1. Wario mains would be unhappy. They can still be infinited by D3 via grab release. Wario can still be infinited by who knows how many characters, and killed out of grab release from others. Why let Mario and Samus and Luigi run free, while poor Wario still gets ***** from grab releases? One of his worst matchups is Yoshi, for Heaven's sake.
2. Donkey Kong/Bowser players would be unhappy. Now, they are free to roam about and are free from the worry of the 9-1 matchup against Dedede. NOW, they have to deal with Wario. Wario has a Dthrow chaingrab to kill percent which can be combo'd into a Forward Smash for the kill. Why haven't you banned Wario's Dthrow chaingrab yet?
3. Fox mains would be unhappy. Fox still gets Dsmash-chained by Zamus and Chaingrabbed from 0-Death by Pikachu. Why the hell haven't you banned these two 0-deaths yet?
4. Wolf/Anyone who can't recover from a Falco Chainspike would be unhappy. Why the hell are D3's victims allowed to run free, while Falco still ***** the crap out of these poor souls cursed with a bad recovery and susceptibility to chaingrabs?
5. Anyone with a competitive mindset who was around to play Melee would be unhappy. Sheik chaingrabbed 0-Death over half the cast, yet it was allowed. Jigglypuff 0-Deathed Fox. Falcon 0-Deathed Fox. Marth 0-Deathed Fox. All of these 0-Deaths on Fox were allowed and Fox still became the #1 character, because he 0-Deathed EVERYONE. Ice Climbers 0-Deathed everyone with wobbling, yet for some odd, strange reason, Wobbling was allowed at most tournaments. With all of these 0-Deaths, the top 4 characters reigned supreme, and these people knew that, but they banned nothing character-specific aside from things that truly BROKE the game (ICs Freeze Glitch is the only thing that comes to mind). Melee then became one of the most popular fighting games of all time, and every character past Falco on the tier list really didn't matter much in the grand scale of things when it came to who was truly WINNING all of the big, national tournaments. These people know that banning the D3 chain grab is a quick-fix, and will mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things other than being a waste of manpower, a source of various complaints on "Hey! He infinited me!" "What? No I didn't! I took 3 steps!" and just plain being a waste of time to enforce.

TL;DR version: If D3's infinite gets banned, DK will not suddenly begin tearing tournaments a new one, and Mario will not suddenly leap to top tier, as they usually are still plastered down by the other top and high tiers, anyways.

Because some people can't adapt to the changing metagame and don't like the fact that their character has a matchup in which they shouldn't be using them? Tough buggers for him. Every time a Ness main goes to a tournament, he runs a risk of running into a Marth. Every time a Fox goes to a tournament, he runs the risk of running into a Pikachu. Every time Wolf goes to a tournament, he runs the risk of running into a Falco. Every time Olimar goes to a tournament, he runs the risk of running into a Peach. Every time Samus goes to a tournament, she runs the risk of running into a Lucario. Every time Ripple goes to a tournament, he runs the risk of running into a King Dedede.

Tell me this: If there was 5,000 dollars on the line, would you, or would you not take 8 grabs each time and deny each one if it meant you had a better chance to win, or accuse your opponent of using 8 grabs each time if it meant you had a better chance to win? If you say no, you're either a saint, rich, live in a cave, or a horrible, horrible liar.


I'm not going to go into the matchup myself, but even if it was just a normal chaingrab, it would still be an uphill battle for Mario. Mario would not suddenly **** Dedede if the infinite was banned. Luigi might, since he cannot be CG'd normally, but Mario would not.

If you're going to simply give up less than a year into the game, and not even TRY to get around this bad matchup by choosing a secondary, or practicing avoiding a D3 grab, then you deserve to quit. Simple as that. We don't need quitters like you in the Smash metagame, as harsh as that sounds.

Why wouldnt they be happy. It doesnt effect them.
Grab releases are not infintes. As you see Warios still gladly **** tournaments even with the bs grab releases. What Dk's/mario's/luigi's/samus's/bowsers winning tournaments that dont have d3's infinite banned.

Warios downthrow shenanigans are still NOT an infinite. And Bowser can up+b out of that after a short time its been proven.

Zss and pikachus crap ends at 90%(still not an infinite)
Falco's chaingrab to spike does not make a matchup impossible, just difficult which characters will always have difficult matchups.
Were talking about impossible ones here.


Basically your whole arguments are.

"Lets keep things gay because we shouldnt take the minimal effort it takes to ban 5 impossible matchups"

"Melee matchups were gay so brawl matchups should be gay too"

No thats terrible and ******** if the community cant come together to ban a simple tactic which is very easy to implement and causes 5 basically impossible matchups thats just ********.

Anyway all i know is atlantic north knows whatsup and im glad florida will be banning it soon too.

 

[XienZo]

Don't people understand that the infinites make Bowser and DK go 0/100 with Dedede.

Dedede is 100/0 with them.

They can't win.

They are no longer valid characters at all.

They can be beaten by an extremely easy, mindless technique.

Why would this not be banned?

Its seriously 100/0?

That means no high-level DK or Bowser has ever won against a high-level DDD in the history of Brawl!

Which actually kinda makes sense....

But somehow, I feel like your ban DDD ('s infinte, Duh) argument goes against your keep Meta argument...

 

[Inui]

One grab = stock.

Dedede's grab is gigantic and it's extremely easy for him to be grabbed. Unless the DK or Bowser are way way way better than the Dedede, the Dedede will win, and match-up stuff is determined by equal-level players playing.

But somehow, I feel like your ban DDD ('s infinte, Duh) argument goes against your keep Meta argument...

How? Meta Knight has no matches 100/0 in his favour and he ***** characters like Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, and Link less than Dedede does imo.

 

[XxBlackxX]

Its seriously 100/0?

That means no high-level DK or Bowser has ever won against a high-level DDD in the history of Brawl!

Which actually kinda makes sense....

But somehow, I feel like your ban DDD ('s infinte, Duh) argument goes against your keep Meta argument...

i feel that, if we ban this, more people WILL complain about other things, from things kitamerby mentioned to other things, such as MK, for example.

@CO18
Melee matchups WERE NOT GAY. >_> it actually took skill (a lot of it) to pull off 0-deaths and even then it is possible to escape sometimes.

and by that same argument you have...impossible matchups right?
are you telling me fox vs. pika is winnable?
are you telling me mario vs. MK is winnable?
sure, there IS a chance, but there IS a chance a mario/samus can beat a D3, isnt there? a tiny tiny chance?
im not saying that these infinites are really legitimate or fair strats, it's just that, i fear, if we ban these, people will point to this and say, well if that's banned, why cant ________be banned? you get what im saying?

 

[Inui]

are you telling me fox vs. pika is winnable?

Pikachu has tiny grab range.

Fox can easily DI out of the d-smash.

Fox can kill Pikachu at really low damage with u-smash.

Fox can camp lasers and run away a lot.

This is not 100/0 at all.

are you telling me mario vs. MK is winnable?

Sure. Boss can beat Forte, Omni, and Plank with Mario.

Mario can camp fireballs.

His u-b is 1 frame and invincible on start-up, so he can escape gimps and combos like Marth can.

He can gimp MK/mess with his recovery with water/cape.

 

[XienZo]

How? Meta Knight has no matches 100/0 in his favour and he ***** characters like Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, and Link less than Dedede does imo.

I mean your theorycraft>results perspective in this thread and results>theorycraft in the other thread.

Like, right now, DK isn't completely unviable, because the REAL facto...

 

[Inui]

I mean your theorycraft>results perspective in this thread and results>theorycraft in the other thread.

Like, right now, DK isn't completely unviable, because the REAL facto...

DK's unviable if people just pick Dedede and infinite him. It's not my fault that people aren't doing that. It's simple and easy and there's no reason to ever use not-Dedede against DK/Bowser if the infinites are allowed.

Results > theorycraft still stands.

 

[XienZo]

DK's unviable if people just pick Dedede and infinite him. It's not my fault that people aren't doing that. It's simple and easy and there's no reason to ever use not-Dedede against DK/Bowser if the infinites are allowed.

Results > theorycraft still stands.

It's not my fault that everybody isn't maining MK. It's simple and easy and there's no reason to ever use not-MK against the entire cast if MKs are allowed.

 

[Inui]

It's not my fault that everybody isn't maining MK. It's simple and easy and there's no reason to ever use not-MK against the entire cast if MKs are allowed.

lol

Marth is better than MK against Olimar.

Game and Watch is better against Falco than MK.

Snake beats MK.

Falco and Olimar beat Dedede just as hard as MK.

Snake is better than MK against Game and Watch.

Falco is better than MK against Diddy.

Etc.

Pro-ban ppl r teh funneyz.

 

[XienZo]

Yeah, I see your point, but its kinda off what I was saying.

DK's unviable if people just pick Dedede and infinite him. It's not my fault that people aren't doing that. It's simple and easy and there's no reason to ever use not-Dedede against DK/Bowser if the infinites are allowed.
Results > theorycraft still stands.

Isn't that theorycrafting?

 

[Inui]

Uh... I guess? People should just go Dedede against every DK and Bowser. People would be strongly in favour of banning the infinites if people just did that. I hope people do that.

I'm not match-up theorycrafting at all.

 

[Mocha19]

I've got an idea..

Ban Brawl..

 

[XienZo]

Uh... I guess? People should just go Dedede against every DK and Bowser. People would be strongly in favour of banning the infinites if people just did that. I hope people do that.

I'm not match-up theorycrafting at all.

Well, its still theorycrafting in general though, vs getting tourney results to back it up.

Anyway, it was just a comment, just mentioning that you have two different approaches on two threads and you could get caught for that.

 

[SothE700k]

One grab = stock.

Dedede's grab is gigantic and it's extremely easy for him to be grabbed. Unless the DK or Bowser are way way way better than the Dedede, the Dedede will win, and match-up stuff is determined by equal-level players playing.



How? Meta Knight has no matches 100/0 in his favour and he ***** characters like Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, and Link less than Dedede does imo.

So are we saying Dedede is the now the bitch character of brawl? Metaknight is now out of the picture?

Regardless if that is a yes or no, the whole ban thing is like watching General Hospital. I swear the next plot twist will be this: Two people will argue about MK or DDD and one of the two people will just scream, "THAT'S MY BABY!!"
*cue overly dramatic music*

 

[CO18]

So are we saying Dedede is the now the bitch character of brawl? Metaknight is now out of the picture?

Regardless if that is a yes or no, the whole ban thing is like watching General Hospital. I swear the next plot twist will be this: Two people will argue about MK or DDD and one of the two people will just scream, "THAT'S MY BABY!!"
*cue overly dramatic music*

No, hes saying that MK can be beaten by any character. Dedede can not be beaten by 5.

 

[Jamnt0ast]

You people are all so ban happy. Leave Dedede alone and learn to counterpick characters.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

For the record it was never debunked and it was locked before I got to post again. I don't feel like arguing about it again, however. There were also a lot more people arguing about it.

hey Veggi we havent talked in ages lol. it had been a while since you posted then and it just kept looping, like this thread is. at that time there was more antiban then proban and this is the reverse side i guess.

on fox v pika, that mathcup is about as winnable as one of the 5 against DDD. pika can crawl so you can't really camp him, he outprioriterizes fox and stops foxs approachs. sure fox can di out of Dsmash, but when hes at 90% it just takes Usmash for him to die from pika. the only combacks fox has here is that pika can't fire at him thanks to shine and Fox can kill pika at similar percents. but i think a majority of foxs agree cp that matchup anyway. Zamus keeps up with fox in many things, combos, speed, recovery, kill percents, but once your in Dsmash its kinda over.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Thank you. I hate having to counter pick Falco everytime I see a D3.
His CB is banned (As well as Meta Knight. lolofftopic.) at a tourney I'm attending this weekend and I'm pretty excited since I'll actually get to use Mario in a majority of the tourney

No banning D3's Chain grab will not make him any worse, it'll just make the match-up for us Mario/Luigi/Peach/Samus/DK mains a bit more bareable.

 

[Luigi player]

You people are all so ban happy. Leave Dedede alone and learn to counterpick characters.

lol, I still don't get how people can say something like that.
You probably never got infininted and don't play any of those 5 characters...

You can't just tell us we have to stop playing the character -_-

on fox v pika, that mathcup is about as winnable as one of the 5 against DDD. pika can crawl so you can't really camp him, he outprioriterizes fox and stops foxs approachs. sure fox can di out of Dsmash, but when hes at 90% it just takes Usmash for him to die from pika. the only combacks fox has here is that pika can't fire at him thanks to shine and Fox can kill pika at similar percents. but i think a majority of foxs agree cp that matchup anyway. Zamus keeps up with fox in many things, combos, speed, recovery, kill percents, but once your in Dsmash its kinda over.

Isn't Fox vs Pika 80:0 for Pika?

Yeah, there's the difference. It is possible to win, but if you're one of those five characters it's like 100:0, which is nearly impossible.

 

[HeroMystic]

Isn't Fox vs Pika 80:0 for Pika?

90:10. Pika is better than Fox in almost every way.

 

[XienZo]

Isn't Fox vs Pika 80:0 for Pika?

Yeah, there's the difference. It is possible to win, but if you're one of those five characters it's like 100:0, which is nearly impossible.

80:0 is as bad as a 100:0 lol.

Anyway, Pika vs Fox is basically the same, you're not going to win. Only difference is that its more electrocuting and owning vs sitting.

 

[Luigi player]

90:10. Pika is better than Fox in almost every way.

Well it's still possible unlike 100:0.

 

[XienZo]

Well it's still possible unlike 100:0.

I win 1 more battle out of ten. I totally can win teh set now!

Anyway, 90:10 is official, 100:0 is not official(at least the last time I checked), so you can't really compare the two, especially 90:10 vs VIRTUALLY 100:0, since 90:10 is VIRTUALLY 100:0 anyway.

And in the end, Pika could lose more matches than tripping than because of that 10.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

actually in the fox mathcup thread its rated LOL.............................




























9:1 for those who don't get it.

 

[Matador]

The skill needed to perform an infinite is irrelevant, since the end result is the same. All you're factoring in is the illusion of hope.

Actually...it does matter. Of course people will learn the hardest techs and combos if they ARE possible to learn, but those numbers won't be as large as those who'd know how to do something as simple as the DDD infinite. It's simple to the point where you could CP for the sole purpose using it on your opponent if they use one of the 5 and still have a pretty good chance of winning; even if the Samus or DK severely outclass you. These are the D3s you should worry about less and learn to play against, but I can see why it's on everyone's sights to ban.

If it was as hard as doing some combination of reverse shines or something, or using ICs like Fly Amanita, then you couldn't simply CP and hope to win. Nor would it even be an issue, no one has any gripe with the IC infinite.

Basically, if it's easier to do, you see more of it. Take a look at MK. If he were a little harder to play, he wouldn't dominate tourneys and everyone wouldn't jump on his back everytime this game shows how incredibly flawed it is. Same with the D3 infinite. If it were as hard to pull off as tying my shoes, then I'd have no problem with it at all.

If they're so different, then why in the world are most of the people winning tournaments old Melee pros? M2K, Azen, etc. surely are doing SOMETHING right...

Hmm...they also both have Jigglypuff in them, maybe you're right! Maybe they ARE the same!

/sarcasm

See? I can make myself seem right too when I take things out of context. Let me simplify this for you...

A CG in melee =/= a CG in Brawl, mainly because you can still control yourself. You can still DI left or right and try to throw off the opponent when they try to regrab. This is not the case in Brawl. You get grabbed? You lose the stock. Therefore, bringing it up and saying "well Shiek could juggle knives blindfolded in melee" doesn't make a bit of difference if the feat is entirely different in brawl.

A 0-death combo in melee =/= 0-death combo in brawl for basically the same reason, except this a little different. In Brawl, 0-death "combos" are basically locks. They're generally the same as death grabs. Simple enough to pull off that practically anyone could CP Shiek vs a pro Fox and Ftilt him to hell. Melee? If comboing consistently like M2K could with Marth were as easy as Ftilting Fox to death in Brawl...do you see my point?

And you're ignoring the fact that Melee shieldstun wasn't as big of a deal as it is in Brawl, as well as WDing, Lcanceling, and all the other things that made Melee different. Azen and the rest of the pros are good at Brawl and melee because they're good at Brawl and Melee. The games are similar and you can carry over alot of the knowledge and apply it to the other, but you're taking that too far.

I'm not following you. I've stated that by banning the infinite, you aren't really helping them so much in the big picture, since they still get beaten down nearly as easily by the other popular top/high tiers.

Nearly as easily? What, in God's name, are you talking about? The only person that comes close to being as bad for them is MK.

This has little to do with anything anyway since we're not even concerned with the big picture. People think it's broken and bannable, not that it's holding them back from knocking MK off his throne.

 

[Inui]

Horrible matches exist.

100/0 matches shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Dedede getting a grab is far easier than Pikachu getting a grab.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

but pika doesn't even need the grab initially to hold the advantage.

 

[XienZo]

but pika doesn't even need the grab initially to hold the advantage.

QFT, Pika beats Fox on all accounts. CG is just rubbing salt in the wounds.

 

[Matador]

Horrible matches exist.

100/0 matches shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Dedede getting a grab is far easier than Pikachu getting a grab.

So, let's say that SBR decided to ban the infinites that D3 has. Wouldn't Pikachu's CG on Fox be just as bad and, therefore, fall under the same criteria?

What about something as abstract as ledgehogging Olimar? Everyone can do it and it vastly limits his game. Easily enforced and would help him out much more than banning D3's infinite would help those 5. Again, same criteria.

Looking at this from SBR's point of view, it'd just be more trouble than it's worth to ban it.

 

[OmegaXF]

another one of these ban infinite throws topics? lol

"don't get grabbed"

and those 5 can still lose to DDD even if he doesn't grab them, like Bowser, but they can also still win it by avoiding the grab.

Now if only you found the point to this thread then we could actually get somewhere!