"Ban"wagon: Getting ridiculous

[Conk]

It's impossible to go through smashboards on any day without seeing someone whining about how Metaknight is too good, or making other character johns, thus leading up to generally whiny posts about how MK should be banned.

I remember when this game first came out, the first few weeks, everyone's like "MARTH OMG BROKEN, TOO GOOD, TOP TIER!" in their impressions.

A bit after that, Toon Link was the character to ban, some guy even made a thread saying how TL was the Akuma of Brawl

Then Snake starts dominating tourneys, and some people on here want to ban Snake.

After this, the "BAN MK" bandwagon starts to form up, and still generally johns constantly about how MK is Metagay.

My point is this: The metagame is in a very young stage and changes rapidly. To say any character should be banned is, at this point, irrational (IMO). Give it a while. Most of this is just herd mentality anyways.

Melee tier lists: Luigi went from upper to low tier, and Marth was improved drastically through Ken and M2K's playstyles.

I'm not saying MK is NOT extremely good, but there's no point in even considering to ban him at this stage, but most people would rather john and look for excuses instead of bettering their own game and mindgames.

No johns, play the **** game.

(Btw, I don't mean to generalize ALL the people on this forum, but a good lot of you fall into this).

EDIT: My bad, I didn't realize that these kind of threads (for whatever reason) are not allowed in this forum.

 

[Oracle]

It's impossible to go through smashboards on any day without seeing someone whining about how Metaknight is too good, or making other character johns, thus leading up to generally whiny posts about how MK should be banned.

I remember when this game first came out, the first few weeks, everyone's like "MARTH OMG BROKEN, TOO GOOD, TOP TIER!" in their impressions.

A bit after that, Toon Link was the character to ban, some guy even made a thread saying how TL was the Akuma of Brawl

Then Snake starts dominating tourneys, and some people on here want to ban Snake.

After this, the "BAN MK" bandwagon starts to form up, and still generally johns constantly about how MK is Metagay.

My point is this: The metagame is in a very young stage and changes rapidly. To say any character should be banned is, at this point, irrational (IMO). Give it a while. Most of this is just herd mentality anyways.

Melee tier lists: Luigi went from upper to low tier, and Marth was improved drastically through Ken and M2K's playstyles.

I'm not saying MK is NOT extremely good, but there's no point in even considering to ban him at this stage, but most people would rather john and look for excuses instead of bettering their own game and mindgames.

No johns, play the **** game.

(Btw, I don't mean to generalize ALL the people on this forum, but a good lot of you fall into this).

You forgot the noobs who said Ike is high tier.
That's just because in the beginning, everyone played like noobs (offensively) because it was a new game. TL and Marth dominate in FFA, which is what most people play at first.

This is brawl. There is an incredibly, incredibly small chance of anything advanced and technical enough to improve the metagame, and if it does, it will only be by a little. MK ban's are semi-logical, but he's beatable.

 

[Sgt Isaac]

Except MK is THAT good. The metagame wont evolve any further than this, brawl is simply to unbalanced and defense oriented.

 

[Unusual_Rex]

I agree with you 100% (OP).

Most people need to shut up, grow a pair of nuts, and actually learn how to defeat other characters instead of whining about how they should be banned.

 

[AlexX]

What's kind of funny is that the same thing happened with the bottom of the list, too.

At first people were complaining that Yoshi was the worst. Then Ganondorf after we found out he was even slower than Ike. Then people were going "ZOMGDRAMA! Ness and Lucas are the worst! NINTENDO HATES ANYTHING NOT MARIO OR ZELDA! *more drama*" Then Samus was the worst, and now Captain Falcon holds the bottom slot on the tier list.

 

[choknater]

This is brawl. There is an incredibly, incredibly small chance of anything advanced and technical enough to improve the metagame, and if it does, it will only be by a little. MK ban's are semi-logical, but he's beatable.

It is the use of strategy that advances the metagame, not advanced techniques.

 

[Conk]

Except MK is THAT good. The metagame wont evolve any further than this, brawl is simply to unbalanced and defense oriented.

Please tell me you're joking.

With no advanced techs in the equation, its ridiculous to assume melee players would still play using lots of smash attacks and rolls with Marth today (what Ken used to play like).

RTS games have no advanced techs, yet strategies constantly evolve and change.

And if Brawl is so defense oriented, banning the most agressive character = great solution.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Panda you need to remake the thread.

Also this reminds me of when snake was dominating and the Snake boards call any new player a bandwagon for just posting in there boards asking for help on snake.

what do they do now? and do MK's treat others like this?

 

[cman]

WELL MAYBE IF PEOPLE WOULD STOP MAKING THESE STUPID THREADS, THEN MAYBE THERE WOULDN'T BE SO MANY THREADS ABOUT BANNING MK??????

/endrant

Seriously though, this does not stop people from making new threads about it, and it contributes to the flood of threads about banning MK. Stop.

 

[S_B]

Bowser has chaingrabs on the entire cast.

BAN BOWSER!!!

 

[Conk]

WELL MAYBE IF PEOPLE WOULD STOP MAKING THESE STUPID THREADS, THEN MAYBE THERE WOULDN'T BE SO MANY THREADS ABOUT BANNING MK??????

/endrant

Seriously though, this does not stop people from making new threads about it, and it contributes to the flood of threads about banning MK. Stop.

You're right.

I just tried to open people's eyes, instead of hearing impatient john crap all the time.

 

[choknater]

I enjoy these threads =\

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The funniest thing is that most of the people who think Meta Knight is broken also think the Mach Tornado is really good. They're not better than the people who think Ike and Pit are top tier really; they're actually worse because they are less likely to be informed that they really don't know what they are talking about. The ban happy philosophy is ridiculous, but there seem to be so little drive to actually improve as opposed to blaming the game for problems that are usually personal that it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel here.

 

[popsofctown]

The funniest thing is that most of the people who think Meta Knight is broken also think the Mach Tornado is really good. They're not better than the people who think Ike and Pit are top tier really; they're actually worse because they are less likely to be informed that they really don't know what they are talking about. The ban happy philosophy is ridiculous, but there seem to be so little drive to actually improve as opposed to blaming the game for problems that are usually personal that it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel here.

do bear in mind though, there are intelligent beings in their too. Just because the "ban" wagon is mostly stupid people, doesn't mean the intelligent people don't have a point.

 

[Ripply]

Eh... my opinion is just keep practicing against characters you have a hard time with. You can't just ban a character; it's not fair to those MKs, or any other mains, really, when they're training so long and so hard to be the best they can be.

Let it rest.

 

[ice-]

ban mk

10bans

 

[UltiMario]

I started a thread like this a while ago, and it got closed.
I see the same to happen here.

 

[Nightshine]

hmm.. I usually hear complaints about Sonic where I am not MK. MK is a character I play as every now and then. Yea he can be annoying but people just need to learn how to fight MK better and since he does go farther when hit it compensates somewhat for him being such a beast.

 

[Shred_kid]

UltiMario's right, this is bound to get closed. At the people who say that the metagame is not going go progress much further, strategy advances metagames further than AT's do. If, after say 2 years, NOBODY can beat a MK, than that warrants a ban. It's simply premature right now though.

 

[brinboy789]

ban mk

10bans

when you wake up you will be instantly falcon punched in the face. wait for it.

10falconpunches

 

[BBQ°]

MK is going to get banned eventually so why should we have to deal with him now? He is severely affecting the metagame growth, he isn't showing any signs of weaknesses, and he is getting better everyday. I think we should take this democratically and just take a poll to see if he should be banned.

And by arguing that counter strategies will be found is pointless. Sure, he may have some "neutrals" if you want to call them that, but because SOOO many people are using Metaknight, they are finding ways to easily beat any so called "neutrals". It doesn't make it any better that Meta Knight has all the options to find counter strategies to any little thing. I wouldn't want Meta Knight to be banned if he showed signs of weaknesses and if there were characters to counter him, but there are NO signs of trouble for Meta Knight.

 

[brinboy789]

MK is going to get banned eventually so why should we have to deal with him now? He is severely affecting the metagame growth, he isn't showing any signs of weaknesses, and he is getting better everyday. I think we should take this democratically and just take a poll to see if he should be banned.

And by arguing that counter strategies will be found is pointless. Sure, he may have some "neutrals" if you want to call them that, but because SOOO many people are using Metaknight, they are finding ways to easily beat any so called "neutrals". It doesn't make it any better that Meta Knight has all the options to find counter strategies to any little thing. I wouldn't want Meta Knight to be banned if he showed signs of weaknesses and if there were characters to counter him, but there are NO signs of trouble for Meta Knight.

on poll...around 5% of smashers use MK.
1/20. sure, more then 1/35, but worth banning, hell no.

no johns

 

[Vulcan55]

I bet making another thread about banning Metaknight will get him banned for sure.
Quick Brawl noobs! Make those threads!

 

[Veil2222]

It's simply too soon to be talking about a ban, but the people that are talking about a possible ban are using tournament results to merit the discussion. Anyone with half a brain talking about a metaknigt ban is only doing that, talking about it. No character has hit anything close to their potential cealing yet, with that in mind we won't know the real gap between meta and the rest of the cast for sure until that's hit. If the community makes a decision before them, it won't be based on anything certain, and thus, would be a bad decision.

Yeah, metaknight has presented himself as a nuisance in my scene due to his low learning curve, matchups, and character ability, but there is still room to beat metaknight with sheer player skill. As long as there's room for that, I don't feel a ban would be merited.

Not everyone that's "talking" about a meta-ban is a butthurt smasher johning (or Yuna'ing) about getting beat by a metaknight in their scene. However, there are a lot of those going around lately. As many people have stated already though, this will be a closed topic soon, because people that actually know what they're talking about are... well... talking about this, and they don't need half informed people spamming threads left and right to get their 2 chars into the mix just because they have an opinion or dislike someone else's.

Wait until something certain can be said on the matter by people that run the smash community before you jump the gun and stamp your foot on either side of the issue.

 

[Unusual_Rex]

I bet making another thread about banning Metaknight will get him banned for sure.
Quick Brawl noobs! Make those threads!

Quiet melee-scrub.

 

[Oracle]

It is the use of strategy that advances the metagame, not advanced techniques.

The strategy doesn't evolve if there's no gamebreaking advanced techs. Brawl has had enough time to evolve fare enough to let us know that it's never going any farther than it already is.

I bet making another thread about banning Metaknight will get him banned for sure.
Quick Brawl noobs! Make those threads!

*sigh*

 

[kupo15]

No character has hit anything close to their potential cealing yet, with that in mind we won't know the real gap between meta and the rest of the cast for sure until that's hit.

I believe Ike has. We are making progress lol

 

[Zinc Elemental]

I enjoy these threads =\

Are you a masochist by any chance?

 

[DKKountry]

What's kind of funny is that the same thing happened with the bottom of the list, too.

At first people were complaining that Yoshi was the worst. Then Ganondorf after we
blah blah stuff
and now Captain Falcon holds the bottom slot on the tier list.

and then everyone realized that the Captain owns MK and Snake and everyone who didn't main Falcon did a wide-eyed double-take, shook their heads, sighed, stammered, did another double-take, twitched, raised an eyebrow and finally walked away from Smash forever because nothing makes sense anymore.

 

[J4pu]

The funniest thing is that most of the people who think Meta Knight is broken also think the Mach Tornado is really good. They're not better than the people who think Ike and Pit are top tier really; they're actually worse because they are less likely to be informed that they really don't know what they are talking about. The ban happy philosophy is ridiculous, but there seem to be so little drive to actually improve as opposed to blaming the game for problems that are usually personal that it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel here.

The mach tornado is actually quite broken, have you tried playing a large and/or heavy character against a MK? Chances are if he knows what he is doing he will use the mach tornado quite often. I'm not saying "spam" it, but you can count on seeing it show up multiple times. GW on the other hand doesn't have as much of a hard time with it since he is floaty and thus will bounce out the top easily and if he shields the beginning he can UpB MK into the air and into a Free fall, try learning that your main isn't the only non-"character being discussed here" (<-- MK for this discussion).

 

[Nasanieru]

Metaknight is arguably the safest character to play with in SSBB. His D-smash is incredible in terms of knockback compared it its speed along with his Up-B. With his Up-B in certain matchups he is able to use it repeatedly with little consequence. His multiple jumps enable him to avoid an aggressive edgeguard by his opponent and can also use it against them. If you notice the way that most of the high-ranking Metaknights play you'll see that it is a very simple and effective playstyle which abuses several moves which leave little opening for the opponent to punish.

Metaknight isn't unbeatable, but I'd compare him to other high tiers such as Yun (SFIII:3S), Justice (GGX2:AC), Storm/Sentinel/Cable team (MVC2), etc. They have no weakness in any matchup and have all the tools you need to win a match. Either Metaknight will be banned (highly unlikely, this is the SSB community after all) or more even people will start using him. The metagame evolution will not change Metaknights tier, the game's mechanics clearly favor the way he plays.

 

[Ulevo]

The funniest thing is that most of the people who think Meta Knight is broken also think the Mach Tornado is really good. They're not better than the people who think Ike and Pit are top tier really; they're actually worse because they are less likely to be informed that they really don't know what they are talking about. The ban happy philosophy is ridiculous, but there seem to be so little drive to actually improve as opposed to blaming the game for problems that are usually personal that it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel here.

Ampharos basically took a nine foot nail, did a sexy poll dance around it, and proceeded to take a huge mallet--nailing it on the **** head. This is exactly the problem.

This has become completely out of hand, and people just don't know when to stop posting threads about this subject. The most logical solution would be to start locking and warning fellow members who try to attempt these topics because they just feed the problem and further stale discussion on the boards. Nothing will progress properly at the rate this is going.

 

[ColinJF]

The mach tornado is actually quite broken

Every character can shield the tornado by angling their shield up, and most characters have a plethora of attacks that can hit through it as well.

 

[AlexX]

The strategy doesn't evolve if there's no gamebreaking advanced techs. Brawl has had enough time to evolve fare enough to let us know that it's never going any farther than it already is.

This claim has been said since the day of release, yet things have changed significantly since then. For example, in the first few weeks everyone was convinced camping was an unbeatable tactic. For how long after were we convinced Toon Link was the best in the game? What about Snake? For how long were we convinced he was getting the banhammer?

I'm sorry, but universal ATs or not, I fail to see how things are the same now as they were on release, or how they're going to stay the same from now on.

 

[Calixto]

It's sorta sad that it has to happen this way, but the only way Metaknight will be banned is when 90% of players at tournies main him(the other 10% will be Snake holdouts).

 

[-Mars-]

Seriously if your just going to keep complainng about Metaknight being banned........just stop playing Brawl. He wil never be banned, it's not like he's winning every single tournament and even the tournaments that he wins, if it's major tournament he still ahs his work cut out for him. It's not an automatic win , so why should he be banned.

 

[M.K]

The mach tornado is actually quite broken, have you tried playing a large and/or heavy character against a MK? Chances are if he knows what he is doing he will use the mach tornado quite often. I'm not saying "spam" it, but you can count on seeing it show up multiple times. GW on the other hand doesn't have as much of a hard time with it since he is floaty and thus will bounce out the top easily and if he shields the beginning he can UpB MK into the air and into a Free fall, try learning that your main isn't the only non-"character being discussed here" (<-- MK for this discussion).

Because that TOTALLY explains how Donkey Kong counters Meta-Knight. IF the tornado was so broken to heavy characters, that is.

It is WAY too early to warrant a ban for any characters.

BUT.

If the same-old-same-old continues for another.....year or so, than I agree that banning Meta-Knight would be absolutely stimulating to the metagame.

Seriously if your just going to keep complainng about Metaknight being banned........just stop playing Brawl. He wil never be banned, it's not like he's winning every single tournament and even the tournaments that he wins, if it's major tournament he still ahs his work cut out for him. It's not an automatic win , so why should he be banned.

Have you even seen the tournament results? He is a full-fledged FIVE HUNDRED POINTS ahead of Snake. There isn't even a 500-point difference between those in the high tier. It is literally INSANE how much publicity and action Meta-Knight is getting and winning.

 

[-Mars-]

Then it only makes beating him that much sweeter.

Fox was way broken in melee and guys found ways around it, at least they made him fairly light and with this new grab release stuff that some characters have on him, you may see some new counter strategies in the next few months.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Every character can shield the tornado by angling their shield up, and most characters have a plethora of attacks that can hit through it as well.

Sonic doesn't.

Marth only has a few as well, and they're all hard to space.

 

[M.K]

Then it only makes beating him that much sweeter.

Fox was way broken in melee and guys found ways around it, at least they made him fairly light and with this new grab release stuff that some characters have on him, you may see some new counter strategies in the next few months.

Exactly. Strategies for beating Meta-Knight will eventually (and hopefully) show up.

But listen to this:

There is a Pokemon named Garchomp that was SO overpowered in his respective competitive tier, that entire teams were designed JUST to beat ONE Pokemon. Even his counters did less than average against him.
Just recently, Garchomp was banned to Uber Tier. He was deemed too powerful for competitive standard play.
The same could happen to Meta-Knight any day now.