Balanced Brawl Standard Release

[Big O]

The numbers you are looking at are startup numbers. Having 6 frames of startup means it hits frame 7.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I don't think it's the fourth hit of DB (Right...Roy's was DED, my bad) that needs the nerfing. It just comes out so fast, and once you get hit once you're getting hit by the rest of them. I'm not sure what needs to be done to balance it, but I feel like it needs something. I'd need to play (and fight) Marth a bit more to feel it out.

As for Falco being 0-deathed by Marth...I don't think so. Then again it's very likely that he can be and I just don't know about it heh.

F-throw->f-throw->tippered dair, it's a true combo at 0 percent, and falco can't recover from it.

 

[Eldiran]

The numbers you are looking at are startup numbers. Having 6 frames of startup means it hits frame 7.

Huh! That's good to know. So "Asynchronous Timer 6 frames" is actually 7 frames in. Or do you mean the hitboxes take 1 frame to come into existence?

 

[Big O]

I think it's easier to look at it as 6 frames of waiting before any hitboxes are activated. Like if you press grab on frame x, you won't activate the hitbox until after 6 frames pass by on the timer which means nothing happens on frames x+1, x+2,...and x+6. On the 7th frame after pressing grab with Ganon is when it actually grabs people. Another thing to note would be attacks like rest have zero startup, hit on frame 1, and you won't find any "asynchronous timer frames" either for the beginning of the attack.

 

[adumbrodeus]

actually, seeing Marth's nigh unparalleled ability to punish, him lasting longer in a match should mean he gets more chances to do things to MK or Snake, and potentially turn the tables in his favor even if MK and Snake still have stuff on him, Marth now has more oppertunities throughout a match to counter-attack this.

Punish what?

In both situations the issue is precisely that, he doesn't really get to punish.

 

[Alondite]

F-throw->f-throw->tippered dair, it's a true combo at 0 percent, and falco can't recover from it.

Ah ok. And there's no way to cancel out after the dair? Hm...I don't think this was addressed in BBrawl was it?

 

[ShermantheTank]

Is it possible to load character skins and custom music through an SD card while playing Balanced Brawl?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Is it possible to load character skins textures and custom music through an SD card while playing Balanced Brawl?

Fixed it for you... (seriously when you say skins it creeps me out a little...)

Yes, look under the OP and find the one with file replacement. If you don't know how to put music and textues on it look elsewhere in the stickies.

Edit: I'm nice so here's how to get Textures and Music

 

[A2ZOMG]

Punish what?

In both situations the issue is precisely that, he doesn't really get to punish.

As far as I can tell, anything that Metaknight doesn't space COMPLETELY perfectly is fair game for Marth to punish.

At least that is what my impression is from watching Mikehaze destroy so many other Metaknights.

And then I consider that Metaknight's KO power took a huge hit, and that Marth does more damage per hit, and I really don't see Marth being disadvantaged. It wasn't like he was hugely disadvantaged against Metaknight in the first place just because of how well Marth can capitalize on even the smallest mistakes.

 

[MK26]

F-throw->f-throw->tippered dair, it's a true combo at 0 percent, and falco can't recover from it.

L2DI?

Huh! That's good to know. So "Asynchronous Timer 6 frames" is actually 7 frames in. Or do you mean the hitboxes take 1 frame to come into existence?

Assuming frame 0 is the frame on which you press the button, single-frame moves (ex rest, ZSS jab) come out on frame 1. A PSA line that says "Asynch timer 6 frames" will come out on frame 7. So yeah, Big O explained it too.

As far as I can tell, anything that Metaknight doesn't space COMPLETELY perfectly is fair game for Marth to punish.

Pun intentional?

 

[JOE!]

just thought of something else for bowser:

Seeing as he has the comparitivly worst Heavyweigth Fsmash for the Kb it does....

why not give him SA during it to compensate? Make it a safer smash (also, it's silly that Toon Link's jab can out-prioritize the thing)

 

[Revven]

Giving it heavy armor would be a-

Oh wait, Balanced Brawl doesn't use PSA.

 

[ぱみゅ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tjP0vIG4xU

correct me if wrong, but BBrawl was supposed to remove any lock/chain/infinite move, right?
so, why GW's Dthrow>Jab>Regrab>Dthrow>(repeat) lock on almost the entire cast is still there?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

um because not only is it easy to DI, its easy to tech? i mean you would need literally no skill to not be able to dodge it o.o

 

[Linkshot]

Techchases can be gotten out of.

You can ukemi G&W dThrow (it's a meteor)

 

[ぱみゅ]

I did never tried it, I always got easily locked and I gave up at the moment I got trapped because I thoug I could not scape...

that means I just suck lol

 

[Stealth Raptor]

you can just hold into G&W, and you will land behind him. just going back and forth will make it difficult for G&W to get you, idk if G&W can turn around fast enough to hit you if you land behind him. even if he could i doubt he could react to it.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

UTD Zac does jab regrab a lot as I recall to people DIing behind him out of the down throw, so really you should just tech it. It's not hard...

 

[Stealth Raptor]

i was just giving an option if you cant tech (which ive heard a lot of people complaining that its hard to do). i dont find it hard, but w/e

 

[A2ZOMG]

Personally, I still think it's stupid that Snake's D-throw does twice as much damage as G&W's.

 

[Linkshot]

"Hard" is what separates the good from the bad.

If they complain, they are not good at the game. Case in point.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I really think AmazingAmpharos and Thinkaman should learn PSA in the downtime before the next release (still a bit aways). It opens a lot more options in editing.

Also, change the stage portrait for Hanenbow into Wifi Training Room. That would be a good move too, but I personally don't know how to go about editing that.

 

[ぱみゅ]

It's actually easy on me catching rythmes, after the 2nd or 3rd one, I was able to tech GW's Dthrow, and due to that, I figured some other things I could try out.


Anyways, I think that techchase depends only on the chaser, so it's hard to tell if it needs help with it
(btw, Bsonic's dthrow allows an techchase, and you could just wait to a followup ON REACTION!)

 

[JOE!]

no reaction to bowser fsmash change? (besides lrn2PSA)

speaking of, it may be needed by next round of edits...seeing as some character sjust have flaws that no amount of KB tweaking should fix

 

[Linkshot]

PSA isn't being used because this is tournament standard, and it's too easy to add little tweaks with PSA that will put you at the top.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I'm fairly sure that isn't the reason they didnt use it, Linkshot. The official release of this came out near the release of PSA, so it was more of "our release is good enough, we dont feel like delaying it to learn PSA".

 

[JOE!]

ok, exactly what does PSA entail?

is it the only way to alter Super Armor and hitboxes?

 

[Linkshot]

PSA just makes it easier.

Code manager edits hex. PSA tells you what you're editing. With Code Manager, you have to guess.

 

[TP]

I really think AmazingAmpharos and Thinkaman should learn PSA in the downtime before the next release (still a bit aways). It opens a lot more options in editing.

You can't assume they have more time on their hands just because they are not working on this project at this time. I know Thinkaman at least is unbelievably busy with school and other obligations.

Besides, how useful would PSA really be? Keep in mind when answering that BBrawl is supposed to be extremely easy to pick up, without relearning much in the transition from vBrawl.

 

[NovaRyumaru]

i was just giving an option if you cant tech (which ive heard a lot of people complaining that its hard to do). i dont find it hard, but w/e

Teching isn't really hard unless you played melee a lot, the timing on the tech in brawl is off considerably by comparison. It's just a matter of getting used to the akward timing it has.

*edit*

After playing a bit i noticed a rather annoying thing regarding Yoshi's Grab. If you try to grab and Lucario uses double team the grab box zips right by him and completely misses. >_o

am unsure if it does this in vanila but it's proven to be quite annoying as he always seems to use it to break out of my b-air > f-tilt > aa > Grab.

 

[JOE!]

i think luc just has a few frames of invulnerabilty to attacks where he can counter.

the grab isnt an attack, but cannot touch him while he is invisible.

if you see him countering each time, just wait and charge Fsmash instead, he's vulnerable while doing double team

 

[NovaRyumaru]

i think luc just has a few frames of invulnerabilty to attacks where he can counter.

the grab isnt an attack, but cannot touch him while he is invisible.

if you see him countering each time, just wait and charge Fsmash instead, he's vulnerable while doing double team

Ment more I grab and he avoids it by trying to counter, resulting in pretty much starting the poke war all over again. >_o

b-air>f-tilt>aa>[lucario tries to counter]grab, missed due to the grab box going through a counter that normally should be punished by the grab. D:

 

[A2ZOMG]

no reaction to bowser fsmash change? (besides lrn2PSA)

speaking of, it may be needed by next round of edits...seeing as some character sjust have flaws that no amount of KB tweaking should fix

As I recall, Gimpyfish stated that Bowser's F-smash in E for All DID in fact have Super Armor.

Eh, I dunno. Honestly no amount of change to its damage/knockback is really going to change this move significantly. It's pretty much a worthless move that can randomly be used to dodge something like Marth's DB and do 20% to him. Otherwise, it lacks any sort of respectable frame data, considering it is one of the easiest Smashes in the game to powershield on reaction.

Also, I highly doubt PSA is flat out necessary for the scope of this project, since really, the only changes that are fundamentally "needed" are knockback changes on certain character essential moves to reduce the level at which x move from this top tier outclasses y move from a mid tier, and then safety increases (lag reduction) on certain attacks that would be very helpful for low tier characters minus the fact they are too slow and unsafe to be viably used against an opponent who knows the matchup.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be very helpful. I'm just saying that I believe that the changes that need to be made don't necessarily require it.

 

[JOE!]

if it does have super armor, why does TLink's jab beat it nearly 100% of the time?

making it have SA like Wario's could make him actually have a safe and scary move, however it is easily shielded and avoided, the SA could make it a force that you HAVE to avoid somehow


(worded bad, but get what I'm saying?)

 

[Linkshot]

As soon as I saw "Double Team", I discredited him as a Lucario player.

All Lucario mains know that Double Team is the worst move in his set.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Not wanting to go through the effort to convert massive amounts of code to PSA was a factor, but it was far from the only one. Security really was a big concern for us. With our current model, one SD card can run the whole tournament and be essentially tamper-proof. With PSA, every set-up needs its own SD card, and that means we have to count on everyone to bring one (unreliable at best), and we probably can't guarantee the same file on each which means we have to trust everyone who brings one to have identical codes. I mean, let's say some Captain Falcon main decides he wants to add enough knockback to all of his kill moves so they kill 5% earlier. Would anyone notice? It's unlikely. Would it be a real and substantial advantage as long as he plays on his own set-up (not that hard to play a lot of games on the set-up you want without looking suspicious)? Definitely. Even better, simply swapping the SD card on any set-up can change the PSA files so you could easily pull some tricks if you're a devious entree looking to cheat.

I mean, do we want the time required to be "you basically need to reboot the Wii to cheat" or "you just need to have your hand on the front of it for a second to cheat"? Given the dubious advantages of PSA in the first place, we decided it simply wasn't worth it.

 

[JOE!]

ok, well, would it then be possible to do some more drastic changes without PSA?

like hitbox or special frame changes?

 

[NovaRyumaru]

As soon as I saw "Double Team", I discredited him as a Lucario player.

All Lucario mains know that Double Team is the worst move in his set.

Actually it's decent way to escape some juggling in an FFA, evade the hit and with luck swoop on people fighting below. Other than that yeah... garbage.

if it does have super armor, why does TLink's jab beat it nearly 100% of the time?

A good question. Maybe it only has armor on certain frames?

 

[Brennus]

Quick question from a computer illiterate noob here: why does the SD card have to be 2 GB or smaller?

 

[Linkshot]

I'm pretty sure the Wii doesn't have enough RAM to check over 2 GB of space at once.