Balanced Brawl Public Preview *GENESIS UPDATE*

[codfish92]

the version now still has the IC's infinite chaingrab, as stated in the op

 

[Big O]

If you want to help out with testing the latest IC grab changes you should get the newest build (newer than the Genesis Beta). I think they uploaded the latest version in the link given on the first page.

 

[codfish92]

they updated? guess its time i go get the new set.

 

[BombKirby]

Okay thanks. I'm fine with it. Maybe there should be a 5 grab limit (doubt its possible) to balance it. But they need some for of CG cuz...thats all they have.

 

[Thinkaman]

ICs have been given a lot of attention in the latest updates. They have +1% on every smash, more utility on Popo nair, and most of all a really strong Nana dair.

 

[Linkshot]

Yeah, I noticed the Nana dAir. That ***** so hard.

I might take them seriously in bBrawl.

 

[SaltyKracka]

The only times startup matters is when both fighters are within striking distance of each other or OoS. Just describe a scenario and how a faster jab would make a big difference. I am willing to change my stance. I just see cooldown lag as being a bigger problem when his frame 10 tilts and frame 8 jabs aren't really that slow.

OoS

OoS

Does that cover it? Because I'm fairly sure it does.

 

[MorpheusVGX]

Guys, I really support Balanced Brawl with all my heart... but you need to spread the word!
There are few Balanced Brawl matches on youtube.. Aren't you recording some friendly matches? It seems as if Balanced Brawl is not being played by anyone and it is a failure... We have to make people know BBrawl is being played!

On the other hand, I've seen BBrawl hasn't been accepted by many pros because they are used to how vBrawl is. The know what is broken and they abuse it and they know what is poor and they ignore it. They don't want to enter this "Scary new world" where any character can surprise them. I pity them, honestly, but that is what is happening. They don't want their precious Metaknight and Snake to be nerfed. There is even people that don't like BBrawl becuase most characters are buffed and theirs improved a little or nothing ¬¬. I tend to think they like an unbalanced game... What do you think?

 

['V']

So has this setting become popular yet? I might use this for a tourney someday.

 

[codfish92]

BBrawl isn't that famous because
1. no tournaments have been done yet. people don't want to get dedicated to something that won't have tournaments
2. brawl+ came first, which is more like melee, and a lot of pros liked melee better...
3.BBrawl is fairly new to codeset game changes. brawl+ has been around like 3 months longer(i think)
4. it's not that the want to enter a "scary new world", its that they want to leave brawl in general. a lot of brawl+ players will admit that the only reason they play brawl is because of brawl+, they think brawl itself was a joke on SSB

thats why BBrawl isn't popular...yet.

but some more video's of characters huge game changers in action would be nice. it would spread the word.

 

[Big O]

Does that cover it? Because I'm fairly sure it does.

Name something that gives Ganon trouble and can't be punished with jab OoS that could be punished with a frame 2 jab. I belisve the fastest it can be is frame 2 with current coding limitations. Most moves that are safe on block are safe by virtue of reach/disjointedness rather than frame advantage.

 

[MorpheusVGX]

The problem is that many players just want to be excited on the "new powers" of their characters... This is not about my character having new powers now... ¬¬ It's about playing a balanced game even if my favorite character didn't get much or he has been nerfed... To think what is the best for everyone and not just for me and my main...

 

[SaltyKracka]

Name something that gives Ganon trouble and can't be punished with jab OoS that could be punished with a frame 2 jab. I belisve the fastest it can be is frame 2 with current coding limitations. Most moves that are safe on block are safe by virtue of reach/disjointedness rather than frame advantage.

Peach fair/nair/bair; Jiggs fair/nair/bair, ZSS jab.

 

[Big O]

I am not familiar with ZSS but the aerials you listed for Peach couldn't be punished with a frame 2 jab OoS. In the Peach frame data thread you will see that they all have enough frame advantage to be safe on block on practically everyone. Not even Marth can up b OoS her Fair. A frame 2 jab would be shielded or powershieled when done OoS against all of those aerials. Jiggs aerials I will look into but my experience leads me to believe that she could easily space them so that the jab would whiff (by height). A faster jab wouldn't help in that case.

I'll look into ZSS frame data.

Edit: Lol ZSS jab can be punished. She can't jab combo Ganon or she risks getting the last hit powershielded which means Fsmash to the face or some flame choke Dtilt fun. If at any point she goes for jab cancelling you can jab her OoS. Even if her jab hits you the most she can do is like 3 or 4 damage. It doesn't even push you away from her so you would still be in her face. I don't see a problem with ZSS jabs at all. Is there something I'm missing?

Also a Jiggs that spaces wisely will hit your shield and not get punished. That is something that even a frame 2 jab wouldn't fix. Jiggs can either attack higher than the jab reaches or just space them and either way she won't get punished. Her aerial mobility puts her a safe distance away by the time you've dropped your shield and can act.

 

[Thinkaman]

Correct; when punishing Jigglypuff aerials fro mthe ground, hitbox size/location is the factor more so than timing.

 

[ぱみゅ]

ehmm... excuse me, silly question...
how can I use textures along with BBrawl? =P

 

[Revven]

3.BBrawl is fairly new to codeset game changes. brawl+ has been around like 3 months longer(i think)

3 months longer...? Well, BBrawl has been in secret for awhile, I don't think Thinkaman and AA said when exactly they started but, Brawl+ started Oct. 2008... so it's almost been a year for + (just right now 10 months it's been in development). Soooo.... yeah.

 

[Linkshot]

Sadly...they were right. The reason my cousin won't play bBrawl is because MK isn't overpowered anymore.

He used Shuttle Loop to try to gimp me, and went "What? This is stupid. I want normal Brawl."

 

[Thinkaman]

ehmm... excuse me, silly question...
how can I use textures along with BBrawl? =P

The codeset works just fine with File Replacement (the texture hack code), and the recent up-to-date copy people requested that I uploaded last night includes it.

3 months longer...? Well, BBrawl has been in secret for awhile, I don't think Thinkaman and AA said when exactly they started but, Brawl+ started Oct. 2008... so it's almost been a year for + (just right now 10 months it's been in development). Soooo.... yeah.

Me and Ampharos agreed to work together on this on the car-ride back from the third Midwest-West Circuit event back at Kahoka, in late May. We'd both looked into such a thing before (check out my archaic and frequently naive/ignorant old blog on this site from last September, lol), but that is when the project guidelines and foundations were laid.

Just throwing it out there as trivia.

Sadly...they were right. The reason my cousin won't play bBrawl is because MK isn't overpowered anymore.

He used Shuttle Loop to try to gimp me, and went "What? This is stupid. I want normal Brawl."

Ironically, Shuttle Loop is still one of the best gimp moves in the game. It just isn't a good outright-kill-from-the-middle-of-FD move.

Edit: Nix that, SL is the *best* gimp move in the game. It's fast, has high constant knockback, a low angle, enough damage to knock Snake out of cipher, helps you recover, and puts you into MK's excellent glide. The only way it could be better is if it made you invincible!

Yes, I know, it's a joke.

 

[Linkshot]

To add more detail, I was at 30% and recovering, but I didn't die off the side from it, so he was disappointed and wanted to go back to Overpowered Knight.

 

[MorpheusVGX]

So.. when is the next BBrawl going to be released ? I am curious/excited to see the new changes. I suggest all changess up to now are merged into the OP. I think a lot of people miss the Genesis Update changes when they first get to know this project.

 

[GHNeko]

I think they're letting the metagame festure and cook for a long time. Like a good chili.

Rather than the fashion-based Brawl+, which jumps onto something new, wears it for a bit, before moving onto something else. :V

 

[MorpheusVGX]

I think that to help promote this better game we should create a group of Balanced Brawl players. Have matches, record those who are enjoyable to see. Upload them. We can even make a Balanced Brawl online tournament. That is better than nothing. As a Balanced Brawl fan I have kept playing vBrawl because otherwise I feel pretty... lonely.. =(

 

[GHNeko]

You've gotta establish a community before you can do anything. :V

You guys should get yourself an IRC channel @ gamesurge.net

 

[Linkshot]

If anybody ever wants to WiFi with Thinkaman's current build (where grabs aren't glitchy and Ganon has a semi-spike), send me a message on MSN. We need to test this and give feedback.

 

[deepseadiva]

I think that to help promote this better game we should create a group of Balanced Brawl players.

Or a nice sig. It's actually my most viewed image on my Photobucket with over 5,000 views. I think it's doing a good job of spreading the word.

​

 

[Linkshot]

Still accepting requests on any messenger for Balanced Brawl. To make sure you have the right build, use D3 uThrow. If they go upward, you've got it.

 

[MorpheusVGX]

Or a nice sig. It's actually my most viewed image on my Photobucket with over 5,000 views. I think it's doing a good job of spreading the word.

​

Excellent, I will use that too!

Still, we have to accept that many players are not going to be playing this. They just have a different mindset. They really don't care if the game is unbalanced or not. So we should create a community of Balanced Brawl players. If that community grows and have its own character discussions and stuff, maybe more people will join later. If they don't, well, they will miss the chance to play a better game, and we will be all right without them.

 

[Thinkaman]

It was mentioned previously by Falco400 I think how to hotlink images.

 

[GHNeko]

It was by me actually. I'd add BBrawl to my sig, but I have no room. lmao.

 

[Eyada]

Personally, I'm waiting until the first Standard Release before heavily committing to advertising/spreading the word about BBrawl. The Genesis build is nice, but it has numerous issues that, apparently (?), have been worked out for the upcoming release; as such, it seems better to wait until the next, improved version is available before trying to spread awareness. First impressions are crucial, after all.

 

[Thinkaman]

Ah, sorry; my bad GHNeko.

New discussion topic: Ness & Lucas!

Lucas to me now feels like an offensive version of Yoshi if that makes sense. I don't mean the grab, but the way I play their ground games in general. Am I crazy? At any rate, I don't personally view Lucas as one of the best characters with these changes, but he does quite well for himself whenever I take him for a spin. I play a really annoying Lucas, spamming PK Fire all day not because it hits people (it doesn't) but it forces them to come fight me and deal with my superior close-range ground game.

Ness of course now has the somewhat scary combination of being a damage king and a reliable KO powerhouse. I do very well with Ness and people I test with groan when I pick him. I play him more aggressively now, and I already considered Ness a pretty aggressive character. Does anyone ever do anything out of d-throw besides fair? Just curious.

 

[Linkshot]

It depends. I mix it up sometimes and go for nAir or uAir. uAir can lead to a possible PKT2 if played right, while nAir is a single solid hit.

Ness has to make up for his recovery somehow, though.

I feel like Lucas might need some damage buffs, or maybe BKB buffs, because he controls offstage opponents, but if they're still onstage, he has a lot of trouble turning the tide. Anything that helps him put the opponent offstage would be a buff in the right direction for Lucas.

EDIT: My mind is moving at an unknown pace right now. I think Lucas needs the help putting his opponent offstage, though. Perhaps give final hit of jab higher BKB? I think that's all he'll need.

 

[Thinkaman]

Higher BKB on jab 3? That's not an unreasonable idea. His jab currently has 80 growth and 60 base. I would have to test this first-hand to see what effects changes would have, making up numbers is seldom good for anything but a starting point.

Edit: That said I'm not endorsing the need for change at this point, merely discussing. Just because I think that Ness *might* be better than Lucas (hardly surprising from someone used to nothing but grabs and aerials) does not mean others have opposing views, nor that I think Lucas is at all bad.

 

[hankydysplasia]

Not to take discussion away from the Ness/Lucas talk, but I have a question about Falco.

I just tested the new build uploaded 8/17 and I was looking for the new throw mods. I noticed that Dedede was all set, but I was very disappointed that Falco's back throw still cannot be used for positioning. I know there are the lasers that are a factor, but I thought it would be figured out with the advent of the throw mods.

Have you guys just not gotten around to Falco, or is there another problem?

 

[Linkshot]

Well, I'd endorse lowering the growth for Base, so that third hit doesn't start killing at something ridiculous. Jab is a definite "gtfo and into a better position" move, and the BKB would be most important for the positioning.

EDIT: Hum, Falco's bThrow..I'm not sure. I have no clue why I'm responding to that since I don't do any of the modifying.

 

[Thinkaman]

Not to take discussion away from the Ness/Lucas talk, but I have a question about Falco.

I just tested the new build uploaded 8/17 and I was looking for the new throw mods. I noticed that Dedede was all set, but I was very disappointed that Falco's back throw still cannot be used for positioning. I know there are the lasers that are a factor, but I thought it would be figured out with the advent of the throw mods.

Have you guys just not gotten around to Falco, or is there another problem?

Falco's throw lasers no longer have to be changed to affect his d-throw. However, we intentionally kept the b-throw because it managed to address some problems with Falco:

-Thanks to lasers, a Falco with a forceful b-throw was a pretty big problem for many characters of walk-off stages.
-DI made the awful for damage at higher percents.
-Falco was starting to suffer in some matchups without his chaingrab.
-Falco remained very stage-baised.

The b-throw change let Falco struggle a little bit less agaisnt higher-% opponents while eliminating much of his advantage for camping the edge. It also let Falco use platforms to his advantage more.

I used the throw mod to tighten up the b-throw's connection to the lasers so that they always hit and the positioning is a little better. Try the improved version and see how it works.

Ampharos noted that the b-throw is best to DI in and up to escape Falco's followups, but the d-throw is best eascaped by DIing down and away. Anticipating one will screw up your DI for the other, although DI's animation gives you some time for a reflexive change.

 

['V']

Is there any chance of shield-stun and hit-stun being added in at least? I think that could balance it a little more also.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

the intent of this mod is not to add combos or reduce defensive play, its to balance the game as is lol

 

[codfish92]

hitstun would mean a drastic change in physics/gameplay. BBrawl is trying to avoid that. basically what alpha trotters said.

are falco's throw lasers different from his regular lasers, cuz if they are you have the b-throw lasers do more KBG, which would result in better positioning, but not making it a huge BKB throw.