B&B! Zero Suit General Discussion

[Cia]

ZSS is INSANE. I love this char to death and I probably main her right now.

Her Nair. OMFG.. her Nair.

 

[standardtoaster]

lmao with that avatar I'm just imagining you shout all of that

 

[himemiya]

IMO she still could use work, mostly on her recovery. It tell how many time I die because of her faulty recovery. I go into a special fall if it doesn't connect properly like being to close to the wall or thinking that your in reasonal range then die or unable to get around thundershock spam. Her side b needs less start up (in the air atleast) and up-b needs to have more range and the ability to tether ceilings or better yet give her and actual legit recovery.

Please no "use down-b" response.

 

[Rikana]

Use downB.

 

[Oro?!]

Good ish Vanz. Get some vids up and lets see dat booty shake.

 

[5-oNe]

i think her recovery is fine. i think it is just about practice and knowing where you can use the upb or sideb. also save the jump.i think its obvious but down b first and then jump if need be.because downb is alot more laggy than jumping and you can get out your upb quicker or airdodge...one thing i will ask about the recovery is.this goes for ivy and zss. how come the tether grabbers cant airdodge and then use their tether after such as the links or lucas???

 

[Cia]

Her recovery did bother me at first, but I've learned how to deal with it and I like it alot. Especially on stages like emerald hill and warioware. Walljump really helps. And ya If u get caught below the ledge vs thundershock spam. GG lol

 

[FoosJr]

I've been having issues getting spiked out of tether has anyone tried tinkering with tethers like tether the ledge drop and insta wall jump to down b to another wall jump? I don't have project M available at my place so I don't really get to try this stuff out

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

i think her recovery is fine. i think it is just about practice and knowing where you can use the upb or sideb. also save the jump.i think its obvious but down b first and then jump if need be.because downb is alot more laggy than jumping and you can get out your upb quicker or airdodge...one thing i will ask about the recovery is.this goes for ivy and zss. how come the tether grabbers cant airdodge and then use their tether after such as the links or lucas???

Those characters have Z-airs, that is, when they use Z in the air, they actually have an additional move (For Link and Tink, it's Grappling hook, and for Lucas, it's the snake). Since ZSS doesn't have a Z-air (despite having a tether and a ranged grab) she can't do the trick. And yeah, saving jumps is generally good with every character, haha.

 

[Yeroc]

ZSS's straightline recovery range extends all the way to the bottom corner of the blastzone. Once you learn how to not kill yourself trying to recover, you pretty much just have to figure out how to keep them from intercepting you and you recover for free.

 

[Oro?!]

If you are forced to recover from below with only upB, you are just dead from certain characters. That situation shouldn't happen that often, but it definitely is a "limit" of the character.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i had to learn how to recover with ZSS but now I have no problem recovering. just takes some practice.
hint: use up-b more than forward-b most of the time, forward b takes much longer to come out than up b. this game is much less forgiving with tethering than brawl is. use forward-b if you horizontal and above the stage and know you can get to the edge without being interrupted. do NOT use side-b if you are not -higher- than the stage, you will often whiff unless your horizontal distance exceeds your vertical distance without being too far from the stage. I almost never recover with forward b, but that's just what works for me.
use down-b and then aim it up and toward the stage to stall your recovery, and then jump out of it and use up-b. up-b has RIDICULOUS vertical range, if you have a jump, you should be able to recover from almost anything.
also using midair jump to immediate up-b still provides an momentum boost like in brawl.

you can also press down after you have tethered the ledge to drop and then down-b-midair jump/midair jump/wall jump-rether etc.
keep in mind that if you have used you midair jump you do not get it back until you are physically grabbing the ledge, not when you are tethered.

 

[5-oNe]

Those characters have Z-airs, that is, when they use Z in the air, they actually have an additional move (For Link and Tink, it's Grappling hook, and for Lucas, it's the snake). Since ZSS doesn't have a Z-air (despite having a tether and a ranged grab) she can't do the trick. And yeah, saving jumps is generally good with every character, haha.

i guess i wrote that a little oddly.i understand that they have the zairs and her and ivy dont. What i was trying to say is how come they wont give her and ivy that option?...its something little but it can only help.

 

[kyroN]

Why so inactive though

 

[Cia]

I forgot to tell you guys I won that tournament :D

Falco tho D:

I found myself doing the weirdest things just to get around lasers. Crawling OP

 

[ph00tbag]

Crawling is funny, but you basically need to be able to PS dairs on reaction for it to work.

 

[Cia]

Crawling is funny, but you basically need to be able to PS dairs on reaction for it to work.

oh ya, i wouldn't recommend doing that all of the time. especially when they get within SH Dair range. but a few times, i was able to beat out the Dair with rising Uair

other times i got wrecked and lost the entire stock

i wish more ppl played near me. i could play ZSS for HOURS.

 

[standardtoaster]

any vids from that tourney, vanz?

 

[-Ran]

Sorry guys, I haven't been playing too much Smash in the past two weeks, much less Project M. Super busy at work these days.

 

[Cia]

any vids from that tourney, vanz?

nahh they only had one stream setup and it was used for melee :/

 

[Babatunde]

There are alot of setups to go into her nair string

Three dtilts at low percent-nair string
d-throw-nair string.
And possibly up tilt into nair string.

I also thought about how you could tech chase with her dair and then if you time them right from there, insta-kill! XP

What you guys think?

 

[Oro?!]

Dair on the ground is awful. I tried to dair Strong Bad out of a tech chase and he crouch canceled it/hit the ground again at 170%

 

[G U R U]

Best character.

 

[Bryonato]

Hey everyone. I recently picked up ZSS (Ness main first) because I got tired of the Marth/Ness matchup and wanted to pick a character to better deal with him. I've spent a few hours reading through the combo/metagame thread (and this one) and have been spending a lot of time in training mode/friendlies learning her setups, combos, and just overall feel.

Anyways, how DOES she do vs Marth? I feel like she has a lot of tools to get through Marths comfort zone and Marth seems to be at just the right weight for her to combo him well. Any advice on the matchup?

She is fun as hell. Glad I looked into her (will definitely end up playing her vs more than just Marth). Really glad there is so much discussion here.

 

[Oro?!]

Marth definitely feels like it could be ZSS' best matchup vs an old Melee top tier. I'm not really sure I can say "ZSS wins this matchup", but she definitely has the tools to beat marth. I think I will make a matchup discussion thread later and start with Marth. : )

 

[tripwire]

ZSS might just be the most annoying character to play against in this game to me

 

[Bryonato]

Marth definitely feels like it could be ZSS' best matchup vs an old Melee top tier. I'm not really sure I can say "ZSS wins this matchup", but she definitely has the tools to beat marth. I think I will make a matchup discussion thread later and start with Marth. : )

Thanks Oro. I would love that

 

[SpiderMad]

ZSS might just be the most annoying character to play against in this game to me

Dude, not at all

 

[tripwire]

Have you seen 5-1's ZSS?

I mean i'll admit I might not understand fighting her just yet. But make one mistake and you take free damage/ a smash? The hitbox on down-smash seems a bit extreme to me. Her Nair seemingly has no land lag to speak of as well as it hits behind her. She very much reminds me of Sheik with more range and ass grabs.

 

[Bryonato]

She may have a lot of annoying gimmicks but all of her high rewards are paired with high risks.

 

[Babatunde]

Dair on the ground is awful. I tried to dair Strong Bad out of a tech chase and he crouch canceled it/hit the ground again at 170%

Oh i see, well What do you think about the nair string?

 

[5-oNe]

She may have a lot of annoying gimmicks but all of her high rewards are paired with high risks.

i feel as if you space right then those high risks go away. you can easily set up other things with certain moves where you will almost not be punished AT ALL

 

[Oro?!]

Oh i see, well What do you think about the nair string?

Nair is one of her globally strongest moves in every matchup. It is useful for pressure as well as comboing.

 

[tripwire]

I feel like not everything ZSS can do is very "High Risk". She can even fish for a combo starter with retreating Side B.

 

[traffic.]

She may have a lot of annoying gimmicks but all of her high rewards are paired with high risks.

I'd disagree on the sentiment that the risk is entirely in your control. She's only exposed when you're dropping moves where they should not be, otherwise the majority of her "high risk" manoeuvres protect themselves. I'm curious as to where you're getting the high risk from, since she's got a number of tools to completely cover her ass and escape, while protecting her from a distance.

 

[Bryonato]

Well judging by all of your opinions I am probably wrong. I'm still rather new to ZSS.

 

[Oro?!]

I feel like not everything ZSS can do is very "High Risk". She can even fish for a combo starter with retreating Side B.

I used to feel like sideB was her best move, but now it feels very limited. The startup is very choreographed and the move is only safe only shield at the tip, is crouch cancellable until upper mid %s like 70-80~, and you can also jump over it and hit ZSS. It's basically best used as a combo tool during DSmash or covering a far landing spot. All of the best characters in PM seemingly give 0 ****s about ZSS throwing side B out in neutral game, or just don't allow you to throw it out.

Side B is imo practically useless against Fox, Falco, Sheik. It is really good against Marth but a bad sideB is Marth's easiest way to open you up. Zard is weird because he both exemplifies the moves strengths and weaknesses. Zard is a big easy target, but he is the 4th fastest run speed in the game, a heavy weight that can CC til really high %s, and can maneuver above sideB and punish.

I'm fine with expanding on why the move is really good but also meh if people want.

I'd disagree on the sentiment that the risk is entirely in your control. She's only exposed when you're dropping moves where they should not be, otherwise the majority of her "high risk" manoeuvres protect themselves. I'm curious as to where you're getting the high risk from, since she's got a number of tools to completely cover her *** and escape, while protecting her from a distance.

She is very good at throwing out hitboxes and running away... in fact that's probably her biggest strength. You really cannot win a lot of matchups against decent players with that style though. All of her aggressive mixups that are rewarding are definitely high risk.

 

[ph00tbag]

Plasma Whip is for punishing bad landings more than anything. Against some characters, if you know your timings, you can force them in the air such that they can't punish, but it's best to use it for zoning against airborne opponents.

Naturally it's also pretty good for edgeguarding.

 

[Oro?!]

So I won a tournament going 100% ZSS. Winner's and Grand Finals were vs a Marth surprisingly, so I definitely have new input for the matchup thread as well. Videos coming whenever they get uploaded, ^_^

 

[Strong Badam]

best ZSS NA