Aura Malarkey in 3D .:. Lsgd

[Steam]

I can't believe Portal is free.

Thanks, Steam!

You're welcome =3

 

[Kitamerby]

Maybe there are just a bunch of them, and most everything called an advanced tech should still be called one? rising dair isn't exactly shown in the instruction booklet...

 

[Cloudfox]

saying which hand you masturbate with??? i mean... every guy does it, but we should never admit it.

"All males do this and there is no harm caused by it, but we should never publically acknowledge it because that's wrong."

as for the gimiks vs just get better thing, while we should admit lucario is just not that awesome, we as a character board SHOULD go find stuff useless or not. its why we still put in frame data even though its technically useless. as faithful lucy mains, we should learn everything about him inside and out. (and to those who took that sentence wrong, shame on you.)

No one really feels like wasting their valuable free time on things that will invariably proven to be false when used in real tournaments against players who don't suck at this game. People that have decent experience in good regions know at a glance what could really be a substantial boon to a character's metagame, and what's simply a natural extension of any *good* _____ player's tactic set, or an occasional mix-up at best.

And frame data isn't "technically useless" in the least. Knowing which move out of a few options comes out even 2 frames before the others can FREQUENTLY mean the difference between landing your attack, or getting powershielded and fatally punished.

I know Lucario isn't gonna probably be A tier, but it doesn't hurt to have some exaggerated hype every once in awhile. Hype gets people talking, thinking, and other stuff.

Researching a lot of this stuff does get pretty boring fast, so... I keep myself entertained by hyping it up in my mind and a bit on the boards, lol.

People call things like a DACUS an "advanced tech", so I guess calling Air Walk an advanced tech is fair. Full mastery of it though will allow us to punish quite a bit more, but I don't expect to see results for it at tournaments for some time.

More options = more things we can do in certain situations. As players you'd at least like to have a general knowledge of your possible options, right?

The thing about hype over random new discoveries is, we've had them so often, and so very many of them turned out to be practically useless, that no feels like getting disappointed anymore.

Also, Air Walk is a great example of exactly what I was talking about. There's nothing especially technical about buffering a move out of shield or hitstun. That's just something a good player naturally does. It should be reasonably clear already what its strengths and limitations are; there's really not any forseeable reason to research it extensively.

In fact, without even needing to see a video of it, I can be almost fully positive that the MK glide attack punishing you mention earlier means that the MK wasn't spacing himself well at all. PLENTY of moves can punish glide attack OoS. The thing is, if an MK is using glide attack or Shuttle Loop in such a way that it can be consistently punished, it means they SUCK at this game. That's why we're trying to emphasize that simply learning to *effectively* space, camp, frame trap, and stop running into stupid **** just because you thought on the spur of the moment that it seemed like a swell idea, is the best boon to ANY character's metagame you can possibly contribute.

I and everyone else really don't mean to beat you down and kill your morale for Luc here. And we do appreciate your enthusiasm and attempts to contribute. We're just trying to convey reality to those who apparently aren't privy to it yet. The nanner lock stuff you posted is another great example. Notice that those videos are from February? And yet people aren't clamoring/complaining about it? It's because you can very rarely set it up in the midst of a heated tournament match. And if anyone DID find a way to do it consistently, guess what? Good Diddys would simply stop being under you on the ground while you're holding a banana, or be ready to shield it at a moment's notice anytime they were.


Not getting completely ****ed up by your opponent. THAT'S the advancement of Brawl's metagame.

 

[Zucco]

Trying to Find ATs for Lucario is like trying to find Waldo in a Harry potter novel. ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Trying to Find ATs for Lucario is like trying to find Waldo in a Harry potter novel. ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

But I found one when I told myself I would and got to even name it, so yeah...

The thing is even though I looked into a "useless" tactic it helped raise awareness of a very applicable thing such as shield DI/SDI. Until after I knew about Air Walk I did not know that we could grab Snake out of his first FTilt when we don't even perfect shield. In this case shield DI helps.

Looking at a tech forces one to think differently in their approach to something and they may stumble onto something different and applicable. Approach things with an open mind!

Oh and about the % Aura Sphere thing... Is there a formula for calculating staleness of attacks?

I plan on calculating things when they are staled and partial charges in the future, even if it means I have to test out 300 different situations. A formula would obviously save me a lot of time lol.

If you've ever seen me on Smogon you'd know my methods for approaching things are a little strange.

 

[Kitamerby]

Awareness, shmareness, nobody uses Shield SDI, and I highly doubt anybody will even care about it in the near future. We've known about it forever, and it's still almost useless.

Also, there is a formula for calculating staleness of attacks. I forget what it is though.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Kita are you like watching over this thread 24/7?

Also, found it. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557 (if anyone else wants to take a stab at figuring out the stale Aura Sphere damage stuff).

 

[Kitamerby]

Kita are you like watching over this thread 24/7

No, just during nights where I can't sleep.

 

[Zucco]

whats Advanced about jumping right after shield pressure and using dair? Its a technique sure, but ADVANCED? I think not. Shield DI is also useless. Ive talked about it with a few board members here actually and they all think so too. Its not something you should be looking into. You go overboard with all these little things imo, and while I think its nice to see someone trying, I dont think its going to get anywhere.

Lucario is borderline good. He can compete with the entire cast but not like everyone else better than him can. We dont get free wins. People say Its cheap that Lucario gets better as we get ***** but if it was so easy there would be alot more Lucario mains placing high. This game, like any other game, is kind of like winning the rock paper scissors, except since theres really stun, you have to win like 10 RPS's per stock, and thats at like, a minimum if you're lucky. you read your opponent, you bait them, and you try to outspeed them and outsmart them. Any character can do this, but some alot more than others. Just be happy Lucario only gets ***** by like 1 character.

 

[Kitamerby]

Zucco easy boy.

Calm down.

Eat a carrot to take your mind off.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Zucco has a good point though. Lucario has a neat little gimmick of aura power going for him, but hes just decent at anything he does. And anything Lucario can do, someone else in the cast can do MUCH better

That being said, Myth i think your much better off studying Lucarios Aura Power effects at certain % over learning tricks to his moveset.

 

[Aurasmash14]

that has got to be one of the cutest drawings ive ever seen. no sarcasm.

 

[Cloudfox]

Arrrrgh I absent mindedly tried clicking Add Reply when I had stuff in the Quick Reply box and it all got erased. Lemme try this again from memory...-_-


...iiincidentally, that thread was pretty helpful. I was wondering why certain throws did a percent more damage sometimes, when they were fresh either way...I must've been observing them in Training Mode and out. And I didn't know stale moves had individual values assigned to each slot, I thought the multiplier was cumulative based on how many times the moves shows up in the queue until it's full. Also I like the Aura table, it's neat.

I was gonna comment on shield (S)DI, as I hadn't really looked at it before now and was somewhat intrigued. Then Zucco posted, so lol. I figure that for most practical purposes it's one of those things that's technically possible, but not humanly. Much like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGvGSec3f4U&feature=related

So uh...yeah. Tabulable stuff can be pretty helpful, particularly things like most of the info in that thread since it helps *all* characters. Little tricks and stuff, generally not so much. But if you or anyone else wants to test and post complex stuff of that sort, feel free, if that's what shoots your Sphere.

 

[RT]

The only practical application SdDI has is on Haberd's laser. Anything beyond that is pretty much physically impossible.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

The only practical application SdDI has is on Haberd's laser. Anything beyond that is pretty much physically impossible.

MK's nado.

 

[Aurasmash14]

MK's nado.

MK can move his tornado to follow you

 

[Dark 3nergy]

this makes me sad

 

[Zucco]

In Conclusion: Shield DI is gay and dumb and useless.

 

[RT]

If the MK is hitting your shield enough to the point where you can start doing SdDI, then the MK is doing it wrong. Also, nado is not static, he can just...move away, lol.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Anyway you guys keep shooting down Myth.

The fact none of you want to look into the character and find things is really saying and showing something. Melee, back when it first started, didn't completely pick up a huge metagame until like, 2-3 years after, it's now this point, and look from the start of brawl where we are now. Melee players are STILL finding **** out(Like at pound, if Fox Uthrow's Jigs at 0, he CANNOT follow up with a uair cause jigs will rest and KILL fox[HungryBox's Reaction was Priceless btw]), there is still stuff to be discovered and all you guys are saying is anything found will be useless :/

 

[Stealth Raptor]

the difference is, this isnt melee this is brawl. the vast majority of the new things found recently arent techs per se just infinites and crap. and imo brawl is pretty much ran out of any useful AT's, because this game is pretty shallow. when it comes to these "AT's" that are found, they are gimmicks. by definition gimmicks are HIGHLY situational. i do agree what myth finds can be of use, for the vast majority of the time it isnt. if you want to use them go ahead, if you dont then dont. i will say though, the best lucarios i have seen arent gimmicky, but play an incredibly sound game (lee martin comes to mind)

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

How do you know that "everything has been discovered"

Is there some sort of list that was included in the CD that lists every AT/Strat?

We can find out other things such as "oh snap, this move can clash/beat this move that everyone thought was broken" such as DTing the Tornado.

The fact that you guys aren't even supporting HIM in HIS OWN WORK using HIS OWN TIME and only asking for VERY LITTLE of you and you going "nope, dont bother, you're not going to find anything" also shows something.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

if that is true shippo then melees metagame is just 1-2 years late. Even melee players themselves said the reasoning behind this was due to everyone not knowing how to be competitive with smash and just playing it casually.

Silly theres nothing inside the game itself that explicitly streams "LOOK AT ME IM AND AT". The problem lies with the character in question Shippo and that is Lucario himself. Lucarios move set doesnt offer much in the ways of mixing things up, such as Toon links arrow/bomb ATs, or Snakes nade usage. His aerials/ tilts/ smashes/ grabs/ etc arent very technical either and do not allow that much room for technical usage. That is Lucarios problem. King Dedede also suffers from this one dimensionality, as does Kirby. We all share those same problem characteristics.

I love Myth for loving Lucy enough to do research on his moveset. But in light of the recent convos, i do believe he hasnt really found anything that'll give lucy a good push in the right direction. A valiant respectable effort it was. Though it didnt really bare any useful fruit for Lucys meta game. Back in 08-09, ive said it before and ill say it again, I've always truely believed Lucys meta game was based on his aura power and what he was capable of doing at certain percentages.

 

[RT]

The difference with Melee is that there weren't groups of people searching for stuff until the game was out for a few years. And even then, it was only a very small group of people. With Brawl, there was research on day one and multiple threads devoted to researching. Unfortunately, Brawl, by design, was meant to be more shallow and less competitive. The metagame has already shifted to focus on camping and timing people out, and it has been there for some time. And it has pretty much staled.

As far as finding techniques, of course there's going to be opposition because it's hard to prove a point when the opposite is already widely accepted. The metagame of a lot of characters hasn't really changed, because their potential has been tapped out. It doesn't mean people should stop trying, but, unless you find something really REALLY good, expect some cynicism.

And here's the secret about ATs...they're called ADVANCED for a reason. If people can't get the basics down...good spacing, mindgames, reading, etc...what's the point in moving on to more advanced techs. Why use an advanced tech when it's easier to just walk away and...jab? <_<

 

[Dark 3nergy]

speaking of jab, i really like lucys jab

didnt phil say he had some super secrets on lucys jab >O>

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

I think it was if you jab'd and then canceled into a second set of jab it comes out faster or something? -overheard from RJ at a smashfest.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

i personally do jab 1, move forward and grab, pummel and throw :33333333

ive also done jab 1, jab 2, to grab

i can tell u how much i love doing that

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

i personally do jab 1, move forward and grab, pummel and throw :33333333

ive also done jab 1, jab 2, to grab

i can tell u how much i love doing that

the latter is more safe I think...I know it does more damage.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

actually, jab 2 does partial damage, so sometime it doesnt even move the damage meter, and a second jab gives the opponent much more time to DI correctly, jab 1 is safer if you want to get a follow up in, i used to do jab 1 and 2, but people started getting out at teh second jab so i am phasing it out

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

If they are too far to grab in with, isnt that when you do jab 3?

 

[Dark 3nergy]

depends where they DI too. I prefer mixing up all 3, either full jab, jab 1>grab, jab 1, jab 2> grab

even if they were to DI up and away if you knew they were getting set up to do so couldnt you follow up with a uair or fair?

 

[phi1ny3]

Aura is great, it allows me to experiment with a certain scenario in a match, and it gives me some compensation for guessing incorrectly, while still allowing me to learn more about the opponent's pattern or strategy.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Guys pretty soon you'll have to refer to me as PROFESSOR Starturds/Kumato.

And Phil will now be known as Professor Science Guy.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Can't let you do that, Star Turds.

Jab 2 like maxes out at 2% damage at same stock. That's pretty much negligible anyway lol.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Can't let me do what.

And that 2% boost might make the difference in setting up kill per cents you know. Just sayin'.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

I've never heard of a percent actually making a difference in a match unless your name is Ness....

Backthrow shinanigans, living because of 1%, then you cant bthrow for either 40 percent, or 10 connective attacks.

 

[tedward2000]

What Myth does now, finding AT's and whatnot with lucario, is what I used to do back in 08-09 (he just uses more numbers).
And I will flat out say, its fun to do. Just spend the entire day thinking about possibilities, testing them out, seeing that they don't work and move on.
Then when you do find something, you want to tell everyone in hopes its good.

However, 9.99/10 of the stuff is crap and situational and not needed and yada yada. Who knows if there is one more gimmick out there that could help (case in point, broversal) with the metagame. Doesn't mean you should stop. Sometimes these gimmicks are fun to do, in like friendlies. But that's as far as they go, Gimmicks used in friendlies.

So Myth, keep testing stuff out, cause eventually you might find something worth while.
-t2

 

[Pitbuller26]

So Myth, Phil, and Tedward have earned their PhD. in Aura-ology.

I think we should refer to them as Dr.Prof.*name*

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Dr. MTI

nice ring to it.

 

[culexus・wau]

Aura is great, it allows me to experiment with a certain scenario in a match, and it gives me some compensation for guessing incorrectly, while still allowing me to learn more about the opponent's pattern or strategy.

I do this a lot.

and shrug off hits.

its why I have an odd time playing non aura-characters sometimes.

HEY PITBULL I FIND STUFF TOO =(

Ledgebounce, Battlefield Clingspot, DT Teleport.

Do I get a junior phd?