At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

Geassguy

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This does kinda hurt Doom for a future smash game in the sense that he now has competition from Master Chief, but we’ll see who gets in this pass first.
Yeah it's hard to say... I still think if Sakurai were to be presented with the choice Doom would win out.

My new pipe dream is MS getting them both in at once, playing off their similarity and similar relevance to their genre (FPSes) and the west. But yeah pipe dream.
 
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Giga Kaiju

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Well, that was a shock. Bethesda and Zenimax is part of Microsoft.

That might change some things. But also, I hope that does not mean that Eternal will be cancelled on the Switch despite it being promised for so long. And I wonder if we'll get more Doom games on Nintendo consoles. That seems to be up in the air.

I am worried for Doom Slayer's chance now. Not only because of provenance of company but because of competition with Master Chief. I wouldn't mind both but if I had to pick one, I would go with the first, ALWAYS.

The discussion will be a pain when it comes to 'worthiness' and position. I do not give a damn if people complain that we could somehow get both with a playstyle involving guns considering there's many with fists and swords, so, whatever.

Time to wait and see what happens now.

:bowser: .
 

doomguywhen1993

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From what i heard, Romero and Carmack themselves seem alright with MicroSoft owning id and i think Carmack even showed interest in possibly reinteracting with id.
I hope MS treats id Soft and others better than ZeniMax, who probably still had a grudge against Carmack to this day and even forced him to remove some text from the vinyl release of Quake's OST.
If we're somehow lucky, the source code release narrative of id may return or at least be less restricted, since one of Doom's and id's most important legacy is letting people actually keep it "Eternal".

There's just a lot to be said about this situation, whether it's that video with Bill Gates with the trenchcoat, wads and gifs with anti-Bill Gates/MicroSoft messages, Halo, Marathon and even Apple, Death Battle etc.
I feel like Doom and Halo being both under the same company (And whether or not they'd do a crossover together or with something else) is another reason for the new Doom games (Or a future one from a different era, even) to keep exploring/analyzing classic Doom's art style.
Because ever since 2016, Doom ended up having a bit more in common with Halo and probably not just the Praetor suit (Which is ironic, considering some people saying Chief copied Doomguy and Halo "killed" FPS, back in the day).
But in general, it'd help if Doom finds new ways to feel more distinct because its identity is fun to explore and the amount of interpretations and even mods people made out of Doom shows this.
Doom might as well be like Sonic, where there's some unofficial "templates" that inspires content, whether it's Sonic OC's or some Realm667 assets.

Not sure how an actual Doom x Halo crossover would work but i wonder if someone were to put Chief in Samsara or even make a heavy GZDoom TC about this concept.
This reminds me of when Disney bought Fox and people talked about the X-Men in the MCU (In general, monopolies can be a scary thing).
In fact, if this affects Smash, i hope Sakurai considers exploring Doom's identity and even works around making sure Doom and Halo feel a bit more seperate.

In other news, Decino made a final video on being a "pacifist" in Doom 2 and i just think this looks neat https://twitter.com/DanielWienerson/status/1307775523611979782
 

Wonder Smash

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I would still support Doom Slayer over Master Chief. Even if the Halo games were to come to a Nintendo console, Doom Slayer would still be my pick for Smash Bros.
 

volbound1700

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I miss the more open world and military tactics used in the original Dooms. DOOM 2 had great levels like Downtown that almost felt real at time. The new Doom still tends to push you along predetermined path rather than just have an open world. I also hate the glory kills as it forces you to just run up and melee a lot to survive. It is less tactical vs. The original. Doom 3 has its moments but it is very enclosed space and focuses more on atmosphere than game play. I am in a Rare minority but I still prefer to play the originals over the other series and I even prefer Doom 3 plus its 2 expansions over the new Dooms.
 

Ridley_Prime

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You could always just choose not to glory kill. I only ever do it anymore when I’m low on health but even then... Suppose it would be a different story though on nightmare. On that note, I honestly like how nightmare difficulty was done best on Doom 3. Yeah, it automatically lowers your health down to 25, but you start out with the Soul Cube to compensate.
 

Wonder Smash

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Gotta say I got mixed feelings about Microsoft buying up ZeniMax.

On the one hand, Id was making many games for the PC long before the Xbox brand was even made. Doom itself started off on the PC. So I guess in some ways, their games have a long history with Microsoft.

But on the other hand...what would ZeniMax and Bethesda bring to Microsoft? As we know, Microsoft already has its own major FPS shooter franchise in the form of Halo, so does it NEED Bethesda's too? Doesn't sound fresh if you ask me. I prefer a company buying properties that are different from their own (like ASW buying up Techno Japan's games).

I think it may take a while before I come to how I really feel overall about this.
 

GolisoPower

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But on the other hand...what would ZeniMax and Bethesda bring to Microsoft? As we know, Microsoft already has its own major FPS shooter franchise in the form of Halo, so does it NEED Bethesda's too? Doesn't sound fresh if you ask me. I prefer a company buying properties that are different from their own (like ASW buying up Techno Japan's games).
I don't think it's necessarily what ZeniThesda can bring to Microsoft so much as what Microsoft can do for ZeniThesda. Keep in mind, their post-Skyrim catalog has been less than abysmal save for the Doom games and arguably Fallout 4, and Microsoft arguably has improved some games as of late, with games like Sea of Thieves under Rare, Minecraft with Mojang, etc.

TL;DR: It's not ZeniMax doing any good for Microsoft, it's possibly the other way around.
 

Wonder Smash

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I don't think it's necessarily what ZeniThesda can bring to Microsoft so much as what Microsoft can do for ZeniThesda. Keep in mind, their post-Skyrim catalog has been less than abysmal save for the Doom games and arguably Fallout 4, and Microsoft arguably has improved some games as of late, with games like Sea of Thieves under Rare, Minecraft with Mojang, etc.

TL;DR: It's not ZeniMax doing any good for Microsoft, it's possibly the other way around.
It's possible but in the case of Sea of Thieves and Minecraft, at least those games are different from the other games they make. Doom and Fallout, I'm just not sure if they stand out enough from their own series to even care. We can wait and see, though.
 

doomguywhen1993

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I think volbound1700 is talking about the more movement/arena focused combat and how classic Doom in comparison has occasional moments, where progress seems slow or you may take cover.
This is something to do with classic Doom treating enemies as being "part" of the level, which is similar to how some 2D/sidescroller games did combat but done in a 3D space and with a lot more backtracking per a single level.

The weird thing about Halo and Doom doing a crossover is how both series have important roles in FPS history but more people expect something like Killer Instinct as a base for this crossover.
I've seen some other people mention Chief in Quake Champions.
I still think someone could try and make a Doom mod mixing it with Halo just to see what can or can't work.
Specially if it ends up having some more freedom than an official crossover, since stuff like Samsara and MetaDoom work because being fanmade means they have less legal barriers and don't have concerns about players with less familiarity, to include obscure sources of information and references.
I think Western companies have a bit more limitations and restrictions for crossovers, compared to Japanese companies.
Also, besides Rare, i think we could have also brought up how MS treated Platinum and the whole Scalebound situation but i hope MS doesn't repeat that again and learned something.

Also, Doom Eternal has a Halloween event going on and the Doom Unity ports get their first TC Add-on: REKKR.
https://twitter.com/doomwiki/status/1308980974198415363 Here's Sandy Petersen bringing up some correction on the Mancubus' attack sound.
https://twitter.com/SuperUltra64/status/1308740449725808640 Demo 1 of Treasure Tech Land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBh6BTU1kZg This interesting video from Doomkid.
Also, that LRG Doomguy helmet looks cool, but it seems the cover box art design was decided as the "classic" Doomguy, when the in-game sprites have differences, like the brown gloves and shape of the helmet https://twitter.com/SlappyCromwell/status/1308528865871101952
Since the in-game Doomguy probably came first during development and was created by Adrian while showing up in the actual game, chances are he could have been the "canon" classic Doomguy but i feel like id didn't care that much.
 
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PublicServant

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Huh, whaddayaknow.
20200927_100617.jpg
INB4 Id desperately shove it into the game in an attempt to "debunk" Mick's claim.
 
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Voe

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Hoping for the best. Please don't be a future Mii costume (unless it's the toy figure Doomslayer, I can live with that).


 
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PublicServant

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I find it interesting how, assuming that they were intended to be polar opposites of the ones that were included, the skipped events infer that the upcoming character both has a projectile attack and is a heavyweight; a pretty fitting description (or at least, a desired/assumed description) of base attributes Doomguy would have as a fighter.

That, and how Doom Eternal is getting added to Xbox Gamepass the same day as the Smash reveal. Which leads me to believe that the above Smash events may have been skipped over to accommodate for the Zenimax buyout period.

This is all just baseless speculation on my behalf. Don't put too much stock into it.
 
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doomguywhen1993

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Anything can happen tomorrow, so i can't make any bets or predictions.
I've seen people suggest it could be Crash because of how close Crash 4 is to release.
Speaking of Doomguy and Chief, i wonder how can you fit Mjolnir Reckon number 54 into a hypothetical "family" headcanon thing like some people do.
I also think Romero himself hinted Rise of the Triad having some connection to Heretic and Hexen at some point on Twitter, although he probably wasn't that serious.
A shame that Into Sandy's City remix wasn't used because it sounded too good to not be used, but at the same time, if it were being used right now, it'd be somewhat of a jerkish move after what happened.

Since i like sharing some stuff, these two videos offer interesting hints for those who ever want to try Doom mapping.
Here's the TF2 Heavy reimagined in Doom's art style (Of course he's based on the Chaingunner) https://twitter.com/DrPyspy/status/1309671593891643393
Outside of Doom, here's this Quake mod coming soon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i8pHwbZlOo
Also, one of the artists that worked on Doom Eternal posted a lot of interesting art on Twitter https://twitter.com/jonlane_art/status/1309640073978220544 i wish that weird space thunder chain fortess thing was an actual level.
We're also like almost 20 days away from Ancient Gods part 1.
DBThanatos also made a video about his Kar En Tuk mod to showcase the Maykr Drone, using an edited version of the sprites of Strife's Lore Master and something i wondered is if they take a bit of inspiration of the S'pht from Marathon.
 
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PublicServant

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hmmmm things are definitely looking a bit worse for MC and Doom Slayer, but time will tell.
Worse for Master Chief? Yes

Worse for Doom Slayer? Fighters Pass 2 was finalised ages before the Microsoft buyout.

More or less, this is Chief exclusively getting a kick in the space diaper.


One less Green Space Marine clogging up the spotlight.
 
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Geassguy

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Worse for Doom Slayer? Fighters Pass 2 was finalised ages before the Microsoft buyout.
To be fair the buyout has probably been a thing for just as long behind the scenes if not longer. Buying a company is far from instant.

People are getting too hung up on some perceived 3rd party limit that has never been confirmed. MS is a big company, they now have a lot of characters. If Sakurai, Nintendo, and MS want someone in they ain't gonna stop because; "oops we already got banjo and steve in too many."

Not gonna happen. I really wouldn't worry about **** like that.
 

Untouch

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While MS buyout has likely been in the talks for a while, I feel if it was anything serious by the time Smash talks were being done, Deathloop would not be a PS5 launch exclusive.
 
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ThunderSageNun

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Worse for Master Chief? Yes

Worse for Doom Slayer? Fighters Pass 2 was finalised ages before the Microsoft buyout.

More or less, this is Chief exclusively getting a kick in the space diaper.


One less Green Space Marine clogging up the spotlight.
fair enough logic, not that I think MS couldn't get 2 characters in this pass (regardless of Bethesdas association with them now), but I do think it's less likelier than just getting 1 new character from them in the grand scheme of things.
 

Davidius

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For the purposes of this particular fighter pass MS and Bethesda/ZeniMax should be treated as separate entities so a company character limit doesn't apply. Still a very real possibility of getting a Doom Mii costume after Vault Boy.
 

ThunderSageNun

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I'm not a fan of mii costumes but it sure would be depressing if somehow cacomallow was true and we didn't even see the Slayer get an outfit by the end of the games life cycle.
 

Voe

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I'm not a fan of mii costumes but it sure would be depressing if somehow cacomallow was true and we didn't even see the Slayer get an outfit by the end of the games life cycle.
I wonder if we're going to get any Microsoft-owned mii costumes revealed on Saturday. A Creeper hat might be a given, but this would be a good opportunity to drop something like Master Chief, Skyrim, or even something from Rare's old catalog as a mii costume.

As far as a DOOM costume I personally don't expect to see one on Saturday. I'm more willing to believe any kind of DOOM content negotiated for Smash would've been before the MS buyout.
 

Giga Kaiju

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Well, what a day. It wasn't Doom Slayer but it was Steve. Our Hellish Angery Boy might still be possible if he makes as a Bethesda/Zenimax property rather than a full-blown Microsoft one.

Unless we see that the Cacomallow leak becomes true but that's a different story that we may see how it'll pan out on Saturday.

Stay strong my fellow supporters. This marks for a good day as that means that Microsoft and Nintendo have a good relation that a character or more from the first might be possible to be in Smash at all.

Hopefully Doom Slayer follows up one day.

:bowser: .
 
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