At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

ceterisparibus

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I clearly lined out everything, including the underlying context behind the "talking to nintendo"/" we don't know" jargon which is lately explained by Nintendo not being interested. Especially when you read the whole thing with full context.

GC: What about the rumours of Doom Slayer being in Smash Bros.? [This was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement – GC] Do you think it could ever happen?
MS: I don’t know. We’ve asked them.
GC: You asked them?
MS: Yeah.
GC: Well, that’s how Solid Snake got in it. Would they discount it just because of the gore and violence though?
MS: I dunno. You would honestly have to ask them. We’ve never been approached and said, ‘Hey can Doomguy be in Smash Bros.?’ But we’re open-minded if they wanna ask. But we hear it all the time [from fans]. Who would say no? [laughs] GC: But you did ask them? MS: We’ve had… I don’t even know who talked to who, but we’ve bantered with them. We have a great relationship with them through bringing Doom 2016 to Switch and that kind of stuff. So we have great people over there but it’s one of those things where it’s like, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool?’ But it’s never gone anywhere serious, so we’ll see.
"Talking" to Nintendo doesn't mean anything as....its easy to just ask and entirely plausible that other devs have done so - just that Bethesda was the only one who were open about it. (we know that Ubisoft, who arguably had a much tighter relationship than bethesda approached Nintendo about Rayman in smash 4 and.....we got a nice trophy as a result).
 
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PublicServant

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I clearly lined out everything, including the underlying context that they deconfirmed him explicitly despite all the jargon about "talking to nintendo", " we don't know".

"Talking" to Nintendo doesn't mean anything as....its easy to just ask and entirely plausible that other devs have done so - just that Bethesda was the only one who were open about it. (we know that Ubisoft, who arguably had a much tighter relationship than bethesda approached Nintendo about Rayman in smash 4 and.....we got a nice trophy as a result).
I gotta ask, just out of curiosity.

Do you support Doomguy/Doom Slayer getting into Smash?

Like, do you honestly believe he is deserving of a position on the roster, regardless of your thoughts on the likelihood of him being included in the first place?
 

ceterisparibus

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I gotta ask, just out of curiosity.

Do you support Doomguy/Doom Slayer getting into Smash?

Like, do you honestly believe he is deserving of a position on the roster, regardless of your thoughts on the likelihood of him being included in the first place?
I think he's one of the contenders "if" we ever get an FPS rep (which would be really cool to see in an gaming crossover), but i don't want people to run away with misleading information that ends up disappointing everyone aka grinch. If Bethesda is lying at least we get it out of the way, if they're telling the truth then its a pleasant surprise (like i said previously).
 

Wonder Smash

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I clearly lined out everything, including the underlying context behind the "talking to nintendo"/" we don't know" jargon which is lately explained by Nintendo not being interested. Especially when you read the whole thing with full context.



"Talking" to Nintendo doesn't mean anything as....its easy to just ask and entirely plausible that other devs have done so - just that Bethesda was the only one who were open about it. (we know that Ubisoft, who arguably had a much tighter relationship than bethesda approached Nintendo about Rayman in smash 4 and.....we got a nice trophy as a result).
It does mean something. As they said in the interview itself, that's how Snake got in. This isn't like how it was with Mega Man months before Brawl came out. Talks can lead to something. Like I said, in this case, it could have lead to Vault Boy making it in as a costume.

I also don't understand why you had to describe what I said as an"argument". This is not an argument. It's just a normal discussion.
 
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Ender1645

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Outside of assuming that this is NDA talk (which is another issue altogether), selectively choosing certain parts and ignoring others doesn't make for a compelling argument.

If you read the full portion, he clearly states he doesn't know even through "they asked Nintendo", then stated that "you'd have to ask Nintendo because we've never been approached".
Then went on to explain that he wasn't sure who talked to who (an indication that it was probably just a request, just like many other game developers), and that talks never went anywhere serious.
If the head honcho doesn't know anything, then who will? (don't tell me ID - stratton would 100% be in the know-all for such a request because game devs need to talk to Nintendo about how to represent the character .etc)
It could be that higher ups at Zenimax/Bethesda went to talk to Nintendo about it, which is why Marty has no idea, he wasn’t involved in what their parent company was doing. And if that happened Vault boy being in could be a good sign cause there was some agreement between them.
 

ceterisparibus

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It could be that higher ups at Zenimax/Bethesda went to talk to Nintendo about it, which is why Marty has no idea, he wasn’t involved in what their parent company was doing. And if that happened Vault boy being in could be a good sign cause there was some agreement between them.
So is Matty, the executive producer of doom, not high-ranked enough to have an inkling of what's going or is Nintendo going to develop DOOM as a character without any input from Bethesda (especially when we know rare was fervently in talks with Nintendo and not just Microsoft).

It's like arguing hashimoto didn't know about KH talks because he wasn't disney, or sakurai not knowing anything because he's technically not nintendo.
 
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ThunderSageNun

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sakurai not knowing anything because he's technically not nintendo.
While overall I agree with your feeling regarding how bad that interview looks for the Slayer, didn't Sakurai find out about Brawl when it was announced during an E3 as working Wii title just so Iwata would later ask him to direct it or something along those lines?
 

ceterisparibus

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While overall I agree with your feeling regarding how bad that interview looks for the Slayer, didn't Sakurai find out about Brawl when it was announced during an E3 as working Wii title just so Iwata would later ask him to direct it or something along those lines?
I think the main difference here is that all 3 parties in the examples are more or less firmly established in their respective roles and would know the ongoings of any big news, whereas Sakurai pre-announcement was still considered a freelancer and was not at the current position that he's worked up to. Today's sakurai would definitely be aware of all happenings regarding smash, as to stratton/hashimoto in their respective franchises.
 

MarcSio277

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So on the topic of Doom I asked this billion times on multiple boards, which characters from Bethesda (besides Doom) should be added in as Assist Trophies? Other companies have franchise with a playable charcter also have other franchise represented through Assist Trophies but not playable characters (Konami with Bomberman, Sega with Akira Yuki, and Capcom with Rathalos).
 

GolisoPower

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So on the topic of Doom I asked this billion times on multiple boards, which characters from Bethesda (besides Doom) should be added in as Assist Trophies? Other companies have franchise with a playable charcter also have other franchise represented through Assist Trophies but not playable characters (Konami with Bomberman, Sega with Akira Yuki, and Capcom with Rathalos).
I can think of a few, tbh.

If we're going to have one specifically from Doom, I'd think it'd have to be the Marauder. This dude's already infamous (the fact you get to fight two of them at the same time in The Ancient Gods doesn't really help), and Alucard proved that an Assist Trophy can have as many attacks as a Fighter.

Outside Doom, I'mma have to go with a Deathclaw from Fallout. Vault Boy proved that Fallout content can make it into Smash, so what better to cash in on having more than with one of the most iconic monsters in the franchise?
 

Room100

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So on the topic of Doom I asked this billion times on multiple boards, which characters from Bethesda (besides Doom) should be added in as Assist Trophies? Other companies have franchise with a playable charcter also have other franchise represented through Assist Trophies but not playable characters (Konami with Bomberman, Sega with Akira Yuki, and Capcom with Rathalos).
I've always thought a Revenant would be a sick AT. It's appearance may be an issue but it's so iconic to Doom along with the Cacodemon, and has really simple attacks to pull from.
 

Wonder Smash

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Thought I'd post some ideas for spirits.

Fighter Spirit

1598738234431.png Doom Slayer/Doomguy

Primary and Support Spirits

1598738621504.png Imp 1598738784231.png Cacodemon 1598738892129.png Cyberdemon 1598739008821.png Spider Mastermind 1598739113888.png Olivia Pierce 1598739269004.png Samuel Hayden
1598739353879.png B.J. Blackowicz Commander Keen spirit1_2.jpg Commander Keen 1598739576153.png Dopefish

1598750734255.png Vault Boy

This is about all I can think of for now. Like I said before, I think Commander Keen would be perfect for Mario and I also think B.J. Blackowicz would be perfect for Snake.
 
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doomguywhen1993

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As far as assist trophies can go, enemies like the Archvile and Revenant can work, but you can also go with Keen, BJ or Ranger.
Would be cool if Heretic/Hexen were even allowed at all because the Iron Lich has the tornado attack.

Some news about Ancient Gods part 1 include:
  • The Maykr enemy being called Blood Angel and having something to do with a shield related ability and some window of opportunity for when you can attack them.
  • The "Summoner" is actually the Spirit that possesses enemies so they become stronger and deactivate weakpoints, along with being unable to flinch, while the only way to kill them is with the microwave beam.
  • They want this DLC to feel bigger than expected and it's sold seperately, like with Wolfenstein Old Blood.
  • One of the new areas is a forest in Urdak.
  • There's two new composers, so Hulshult isn't the only one and both were told to do their own thing and not mimick Mick Gordon.
  • They'll do more with tentacles and that "Hellified" turret eye thing from Nekravol.
There's probably more info in some interviews and a few Doomworld posts i read.

I wonder if an assist trophy Cacodemon could use a tongue attack from 2016's multiplayer, even if most people aren't familiar with it.
Because a thing with crossovers is exploring a series to see how much material can you use, even if it's from a barely heard/seen source.

When i was thinking of the art style differences between classic and new Doom, one could argue that classic is more cartoony than reboot because of the simpler designs, B-Movie-ish production and MSDOS aesthetic (With Wolf 3D being even more cartoony) while the new designs try to be "edgier" with the chittin/boney looks and more details.
Meaning that it could be easier to go with classic designs because we see them as goofy or even not as cool as the new ones.
But at the same time, you can also see some interesting "opposite" prespective.

Doom 1/2 were the kind of games that were considered to be edgy back then and had topics that were somewhat taboo (Despite Sandy Peterson not caring much because the demons were "cartoons plus you kill them") and even had Metal music and DnD as inspirations.
When you think of what demons look like and how they're portrayed through years, the classic demons being simpler and "old" makes them work, specially the Cyberdemon and Lost Soul.
They're simple enough to feel closer to a Heavy Metal album cover or even some older portrayals of demons you'd find in some ancient paintings or statues (The latter being something id used for textures, if you remember that Decino video).
Doom 1/2 was probably goofy for the same reasons it ever had any horror or "serious" elements to go with the low tech/used future aesthetic, outdated/non-futuristic weapons and some weird cyber flesh look on Hell or one or two textures rumored to be based on an historical figure's image of them hanged upside down.
You could say demons are meant to "mock" the imagery of humans, goats and other creatures which is why they had some "human" elements, since demons are also seen as representations of something like a sin or nightmare (With Doom 3 having the more nightmarish designs even if they seem more alien and don't have that campy/silly OG Doom charm).

New Doom has what seems like how some media portrays demons nowadays.
The more "busy" looking ones and the idea seems to be making them more demonic and scarier, but sometimes it may cause an opposite effect where they're more cartoonish or even alien (If the chittin elements end up creating some anatomy/system that is even shared through multiple enemies, to give them some kind of "nature" when Hell used to be more abstract).
These are the kind of designs that some people would compare them to a MMORPG or a MOBA, because to some degree, they're either more "appealing"/safe (Like a more marketable version of "cool") or because of some trends in art/design.
Eternal even tries to be goofier and on some level not really seen in classic Doom to the point id wouldn't mind comparing it to Pixar or kids' cartoons, when classic Doom rather had a "B-movie" feel to the silly side to it (And then there's the phrase "It tries to be 90's when Doom was rather 80's".
This may also be a side effect of the lore's direction and the engine showcasing how detailed the game is.

Also, i don't think i even posted this here but:
 

PublicServant

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Some news about Ancient Gods part 1 include:
  • The Maykr enemy being called Blood Angel and having something to do with a shield related ability and some window of opportunity for when you can attack them.
  • The "Summoner" is actually the Spirit that possesses enemies so they become stronger and deactivate weak points, along with being unable to flinch, while the only way to kill them is with the microwave beam.
  • They want this DLC to feel bigger than expected and it's sold separately, like with Wolfenstein Old Blood.
  • One of the new areas is a forest in Urdak.
  • There are two new composers, so Hulshult isn't the only one and both were told to do their own thing and not mimic Mick Gordon.
  • They'll do more with tentacles and that "Hellified" turret eye thing from Nekravol.
Source for all this stuff?
 

TerminatorLOL

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I'm really hoping that bit about the Summoner only being killable by the microwave beam is untrue. That just seems needlessly limiting, and feels like a desperate attempt to get me to actually use that mod.
 

PublicServant

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I'm really hoping that bit about the Summoner only being killable by the microwave beam is untrue. That just seems needlessly limiting and feels like a desperate attempt to get me to actually use that mod.
I mean, if it's true, that's what the community gets for deriding the mod as useless (despite the fact that it can be ridiculously overpowered when not used on its own as the community though it should).
And again, that's why I'm asking the guy for a citation on where he's pulling this news from.
 

doomguywhen1993

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These are some sources of info i've seen.
 

TerminatorLOL

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I mean, if it's true, that's what the community gets for deriding the mod as useless (despite the fact that it can be ridiculously overpowered when not used on its own as the community though it should)
And again, that's why I'm asking the guy for a citation on where he's pulling this news from.
I'm sure when used right it can be good. But turning into the "spirit killing mod" is only going to strengthen the belief it is useless for anything else for most people.

It will probably be a small annoyance. But it still feels too restricting.
 

PublicServant

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These are some sources of info i've seen.
Having read those articles, I'm going to be addressing some personal sticking points.
  • They want this DLC to feel bigger than expected and it's sold seperately, like with Wolfenstein Old Blood.
  • There's two new composers, so Hulshult isn't the only one and both were told to do their own thing and not mimick Mick Gordon.
  1. This does not indicate that TAGs is going the be a completely separate download from the main game that takes up its own store slot like WTOB, especially since its listed under the main game's DLC page. If it is, then that's going to be completely stupid and annoying.
  2. Until any footage from the Gamescom panel is released, I'm going to be taking that Doomworld comment as conjecture. Mick Gordon's style is what breathed life into Doom Eternal's soundtrack, and if Hulshult and Levy are essentially being barred from even emulating that style because of Ids childish spat with Mick, I can't see this soundtrack being anything besides a massively disappointing step down compared to what we heard in the main game.
I'm sure when used right it can be good. But turning into the "spirit killing mod" is only going to strengthen the belief it is useless for anything else for most people.

It will probably be a small annoyance. But it still feels too restricting.
It's no different from the Stickybombs being the "Caco killing" mod, or Precision Bolt being the "Precision Headshot" mod. One shouldn't fall into the trap of Doom 2016 where "everything should work against anything regardless", and it's neat to see the game shake up the usual player meta strategies.
 
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TerminatorLOL

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It's no different from the Stickybombs being the "Caco killing" mod, or Precision Bolt being the "Precision Headshot" mod. One shouldn't fall into the trap of Doom 2016 where "everything should work against anything regardless", and it's neat to see the game shake up the usual player meta strategies.
Its very different because you don't HAVE to use to use those mods to do either of those things. you can kill Caco's just as fast with a frag or a Ballista Arbalest. you can also just use the Ballista for headshots.

This is forcing us to use this one mod just to kill this one monster, no exceptions.
 

PublicServant

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It's very different because you don't HAVE to use those mods to do either of those things. you can kill Caco's just as fast with a frag or a Ballista Arbalest. you can also just use the Ballista for headshots.

This is forcing us to use this one mod just to kill this one monster, no exceptions.
Sticky bombs are still the more effective of the two since, compared to the frags, they don't have as punishing velocity falloff and recharge much more quickly, while Ballista Arbalest instantly destroys the Caco, stripping you of the opportunity to Glory Kill it for resources. Ballista headshots, while possible, are impractical due to the lack of a proper zoom function. A single Ballista shot is also much more expensive per-shot than the Precision Bolt, fires much more slowly and doesn't benefit from the explosive headshot mastery.

To that end, you don't know whether the Microwave Beam is going to be the only way to defeat the Spirit. More than likely, it's going to be the same deal when it comes to Sticky Bombs/Precision Bolt and weak points: You can take multiple avenues to destroy it, but this specific avenue is the most efficient.
 
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Ridley_Prime

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I like all the weapon mods, but feels bad when some are too niche in usefulness to the point you almost never use it, so I’m all for being given a reason to use one more with a new enemy type or something.

Apparently that one new enemy is called the Blood Angel. I like it already.
 

TerminatorLOL

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Sticky bombs are still the more effective of the two since, compared to the frags, they don't have as punishing velocity falloff and recharge much more quickly, while Ballista Arbalest instantly destroys the Caco, stripping you of the opportunity to Glory Kill it for resources. Ballista headshots, while possible, are impractical due to the lack of a proper zoom function. A single Ballista shot is also much more expensive per-shot than the Precision Bolt, fires much more slowly and doesn't benefit from the explosive headshot mastery.

To that end, you don't know whether the Microwave Beam is going to be the only way to defeat the Spirit. More than likely, it's going to be the same deal when it comes to Sticky Bombs/Precision Bolt and weak points: You can take multiple avenues to destroy it, but this specific avenue is the most efficient.
My point is that you can use other methods if I you want. Maybe I don't want to switch to a different gun so I just launch my frag. Maybe I want to kill some far away Caco's quickly and I don't need there resources so I use the arblaest. I have options.

I'm fine with the microwave beam having a use, even if I don't care for it. I just don't like the idea of being absolutely forced to use it to kill this one enemy.

And your right I don't know. Thats why I said that "I'm really hoping that bit about the Summoner only being killable by the microwave beam is untrue."
 

Djnth0llmn

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Imagine the music though. I'd love to hear some hard-hitting djent.

Him or Master Chief. That's pretty much all I want.
 
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Megadoomer

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Imagine the music though. I'd love to hear some hard-hitting djent.

Him or Master Chief. That's pretty much all I want.
Welcome to the forums! Just a heads up that, if you want to add more detail to your posts, you can use the edit button. Double-posting (posting twice in a row less than a day apart) is kind of like spam, so it's best to avoid that; I've combined the two posts.
 
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Ridley_Prime

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KirbyWorshipper2465

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Uh, yeah that design would have stuck out like a sore thumb, jeez. :laugh:

As for the magazine covers, at least the Independent PSM one is decent since it had a pro artist work on it. No excuse for the rest.

PC Gamer one is amusingly prescient tho.
 
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Megadoomer

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KirbyWorshipper2465 KirbyWorshipper2465 brought this to my attention:


It looks neat, and the developer interviews seem like they'd be interesting. (though I already have the game on the Switch, so it's not as appealing to me as it could be)
 

Oldhead

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Hi Doom thread,

This is my first post here, but I have to say that The Slayer would be one of the cooler possible additions to the Smash roster, and I really hope he has a chance. (And I mean, Cacomallow is real, so it's just a matter of time).

I've always thought of Doom as one of the most influential and important videogames of all time, but this belief has been infinitely buoyed after watching three and a half hours of "ACTION BUTTON REVIEWS DOOM". Tim Rogers, formerly of Kotaku, is one of the best game critics working today, and the level of insight and analysis he brings to his reviews in unparalleled, especially within the Martian heckscape colloquially known as "YouTube". His Doom review is his best yet, and makes me insanely hype that this game has a chance of being represented in Ultimate, as it deserves.

I think anyone with even a passing interest in Doom would enjoy this video, especially if you have a lot of time to kill. Add me to the list of Slayer supporters, and rip and tear into this review:

 
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