At long last, Presenting GSH2, a Brawl+ Nightly Test Set and Discussion Topic

[CT Chia]

There's plenty of other ways though to fix GDorfs grab thats not completely messing it up though...

 

[grim mouser]

New way to fix camera? That would be great.

 

[Veril]

Ganon's new d-throw is awesome (I might try some tweaks with it to increase the adv if they tech). Removing the CG would have just made his d-throw a clone of CF's, and who wants that?

Ganon's other throws actually serve a purpose now, and the new d-throw fits well with the tech-chasing element of Ganon's game.

 

[omegablackmage]

yeah chibo, you have three options in terms of that grab.

down - what he have now, into the ground. helps tech chasing with side b.

up - would be a clone of his upthrow

out - would allow for no combos since ganon can't run fast like cfalc does.

before we had right in front of him, but that probably led to too many chaingrabs. i think cape chose the best option.

 

[CT Chia]

What about...

-Raising the BKB to where it won't allow for CGs where it was "too good" on, but could still allow combos on certain characters of certain weights at certain percents

or

-Raising the KBG so these chain grabs can only be done at early percents and end a lot earlier which seems to be fine to me at least

And even with the CG he had, who was it on? Someone said it lasted till 80 or so right? Tweak the KBG so it ends at like 40 or 50.

 

[Veril]

Ganon's throws were something Cape and I both spent a lot of time on. They're legit. I might put up the updated info for them today to facilitate this discussion.

The kbg change still leaves the issue of it making all his other throws irrelevant. We tried that with GSH1.

 

[CT Chia]

how would increasing the kbg on it make other throws irrevelant (which who cares rly, not every character needs a perfect 100% good moveset). it would be the same-ish at lower percents and would stop comboability at higher percents.

 

[Veril]

Removing combos isn't the point, the idea is to remove the CG. Doing that doesn't require the removal of combos. Removing combos and the CG without making the throw radically different is just an excessive nerf. The new d-throw works well with Ganon's playstyle, makes his other throws relevant, and is just cool. It isn't a nerf or a buff really, just a change for the better.

 

[SilintNinjya]

ya, i definitely didn't read this whole thread but here are my thoughts after playing it for a while...

-lucario needs his auto sweet spot back
-falco needs less lag on his shine...at low damage, they get out of hitstun before you finish animating
-ganons down throw needs to make them bounce like it did in ghs1?
-link has some issues with recovery. if you fail the tether, you wont be able to up-b either. kinda annoying.

(and as a joke, can we get a build where c.falcon has 1 frame falcon punches? lol)

 

[bob-e]

Lucario isn't special, he doesn't need auto sweet spot when no one else gets it, though his recovers is kind of dumb right now. If it could be made so that running into a wall causes him to slide along it, like Fox/Falco, it would probably be fine.

About Falco's shine. If you're adding lag to make it more punishable, could the SDI multiplier be reduced? Even in 5.0, a lot of characters could avoid every follow up just by holding down+towards Falco.

 

[Rudra]

Just two questions:

1. Whats up with Charizard's Fair? I could have sworn that I've seen the strong hitbox's KB being stopped by the weaker one at times.

2. I've been playing Melee Falco in Doubles lately, and there's one thing I noticed: his lasers can stop the momentum of either a friend or foe as they're being launched, but they dont seem to do so in Brawl+. Would it be possible to make his lasers work that way again?

 

[Alphatron]

Ganon's dthrow and Falco's shine have already been talked about and taken care of.

 

[camelot]

2. I've been playing Melee Falco in Doubles lately, and there's one thing I noticed: his lasers can stop the momentum of either a friend or foe as they're being launched, but they dont seem to do so in Brawl+. Would it be possible to make his lasers work that way again?

I bet it could work, if we did this to his lasers: set the KB to something high, then set the trajectory to 365 (16D in hex). That "special" trajectory makes an attack do hitstun like normal, but do no knockback.

 

[Bakuryu]

Ganon's dthrow and Falco's shine have already been talked about and taken care of.

I'm going to be lazy an assume the Falco one was talked about a while ago, could you point me to this discussion im curious as to what was said?

 

[Thunderhorse+]

I'm going to be lazy an assume the Falco one was talked about a while ago, could you point me to this discussion im curious as to what was said?

Page 6.

It's so depressing that I've had to reference it so much I still remember what page number it's on some 50+ pages later. Really speaks volumes tbh.

 

[Sterowent]

for future reference towards falco shine/TH+ future change:

http://tinyurl.com/ydjbfye


also, what's wrong with chaingrabs? thought i addressed that. maybe it doesn't fit for ganon, as much as he might need it when fighting spacies, but DIable CGs are a specialized skill. there's nothing wrong with experience in matchups being shown, at low percents, and up to a very modest percents, all the while requiring that you read your opponent properly.

 

[SilintNinjya]

Lucario isn't special, he doesn't need auto sweet spot when no one else gets it, though his recovers is kind of dumb right now. If it could be made so that running into a wall causes him to slide along it, like Fox/Falco, it would probably be fine.

on the contrary, i think he IS a special case for two reasons

1- his up-b causes ZERO damage. most up-bs cause damage at some point in the move which can be used to protect the character (if timed properly)...lucario doesn't have this option.

2- if he tries to go horizontal into the stage (like a falco or fox side-B), he rolls BELOW the stage. it KILLS him. he doesn't even stick to the wall. he just dies.

for these two reasons, i think his up-b deserves to have auto-sweet spot. with out it, he is going to die unless you have an absolute perfect aim and timing.

 

[ValTroX]

on the contrary, i think he IS a special case for two reasons

1- his up-b causes ZERO damage. most up-bs cause damage at some point in the move which can be used to protect the character (if timed properly)...lucario doesn't have this option.

2- if he tries to go horizontal into the stage (like a falco or fox side-B), he rolls BELOW the stage. it KILLS him. he doesn't even stick to the wall. he just dies.

for these two reasons, i think his up-b deserves to have auto-sweet spot. with out it, he is going to die unless you have an absolute perfect aim and timing.

His recovery isn't that bad, although i do agree that falling below the stage when doing a horizontal one blows, you can always do the UpB and then jump, it's way less safe, but you do have options

 

[GHNeko]

I think all that lucario needs is the ability to not go into special fall after colliding into a wall.

Giving him autosnap is unnecessary because he doesnt need it when he has multiple tools and natural attributes that aid recovery (high double jump, floaty, wall cling, wall jump, scar jumping, low wall jump decay, projectile + disjointed aerials to fend off opponents on the ledge, dair stall)

ASL for Lucario is just way too much on top of all that.


...this is like people asking for Diddy Recovery buffs. :|

 

[ValTroX]

Diddy recovery burst my B*lls sometimes xD, I saw the logic in it though

 

[Veril]

Lucario's up-b isn't hard to use. I sorta agree with GHNeko in that if anything were to be done to it, it would simply be to remove the special fall on collision.

Lucario has a great recovery, just don't kill yourself. Learn to space extreme speed, its way easier to use than pkt2 or Diddy Kong's recovery, and much safer. Seriously, no Lucario Johns.

 

[GHNeko]

Hell, if you save your double jump, recovery becomes even easier simply because his double jump is more versatile and reliable than his up B.


...actually, if you reverse the usage of Up B and Double Jump with lucario, you'd probably benefit more and have a more potent recovery.

</thinkingoutthebox>

 

[Veril]

I c what you did thar!

Yeah, Lucario should always up-b before double jumping unless you plan on sweetspotting... and usually that's an inferior plan.

 

[CT Chia]

I've been workin' on my Diddy in this set. Diddy is so fun in Brawl+, his physical aspect now is key and hes just so fast and stuff.

 

[GHNeko]

And also relatively unchanged from Brawl.

If you were gay with him in Brawl, you'll automatically be twice as gay in Brawl+!

 

[Isatis]

Video time. (If they don't work, they're still processing, give it time)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/96LmQEsEUjM&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/96LmQEsEUjM&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BPjNnPDqKFM&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BPjNnPDqKFM&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/u827AjWkO9Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/u827AjWkO9Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UkxppKzF9gw&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UkxppKzF9gw&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[GHNeko]

That Wolf is RPGsFTW lol

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

And also relatively unchanged from Brawl.

If you were gay with him in Brawl, you'll automatically be twice as gay in Brawl+!

Welllllllll....

Naners got nerfed.

Otherwise, YESZ!

Bawwww more Lucarios. Your **** doesn't go into specialfall and it's fast. :3

 

[CT Chia]

i dont even know whats changed about bananas

i would know if there was a changelist...

wtf will there at least be one b4 pound? b4 hackfest 5?

will this become an official version b4 pound? if not it goes against everything that a "nightly" stands for

 

[GHNeko]

Naners got nerfed.

indirectly, but they're still stupider than Brawl nanners.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Calm down ladies.

Naners were nerfed in GSH1. If you're in SlipWait, which is the animation where you're waiting on the ground after tripping or slipping, you don't flinch from naner hits.

Naners are cooler in B+. Doesn't have afraid of shield much. Dribble drabble.

Diddy is definitely **** solid though.

 

[iLink]

I think all that lucario needs is the ability to not go into special fall after colliding into a wall.

That would make me happy


On a side note, someone should probably tell SK92 that Falco's uthrow doesn't completely suck now.

When/where were those videos recorded?

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I bet 10 dollars I could fix Luc's collision. I just found out how to screw with Sonic's neutral B. D:

Then again I also created a black hole.

Nvm.

 

[Isatis]

That would make me happy


On a side note, someone should probably tell SK92 that Falco's uthrow doesn't completely suck now.

When/where were those videos recorded?

At VegasSmash, see a page or two back where RPGsFTW posted the replays

 

[iLink]

Ah thanks, didn't see those before XP

Also ThatGuy, I would love it if you could.

 

[[TSON]]

indirectly, but they're still stupider than Brawl nanners.

they're still stupider than Brawl

stupider than Brawl

stupider

10okwhats.

 

[GHNeko]

Naners were nerfed in GSH1. If you're in SlipWait, which is the animation where you're waiting on the ground after tripping or slipping, you don't flinch from naner hits.

!!!!!!!!!!!!


brb asking to play gnes at next hobo.

 

[RPGsFTW]

That Wolf is RPGsFTW lol

Yup yup. That's me! The only reason my name was "No Up 1 " is because we don't want everyone making a billion new names on every Wii every tournament, and NoUps 1-4 are just made so you can have tap jump off, which is the only change I have. My tag, if it gets saved in a replay sometime, is RPGs+.

But yeah. That's, I think, the 2nd match of 4 in Winner's Finals on Sunday. I lost the set though.

The Snake player actually goes by Mi, for his gamertag. He said he just made his name 629 because he likes those numbers.

I beat Mi in Winner's bracket earlier that day, then I fought SK in Winner's Finals. I lost to SK there, so I waited for Loser's bracket. Mi won his way back up and we did our rematch. I lost then, thus my 3rd place, and he fought SK for Grand Finals.

The vid of them at FD is the first match, second is BF, and third wasn't saved, because they forgot, but SK 3-0'd him.

I wish I had beaten Mi again, because I might've gotten closer to beating SK. My Wolf seems to do pretty well against his Falco. I lost to Mi's Snake as just Wario. Maybe I'll try Wolf next time I fight him?

Oh, and Diddy is stupid, imo. I hate bananas and the combos from them. SK also plays Diddy as one of his secondaries. =[

~~ I must be stupid at the moment, but what does the no flinch during banana hits mean? Is that saying that you wouldn't trip a second time , like those banana locks? I'm sorta confused about the banana's properties now. :?

 

[GHNeko]

Basically, you're immune from being tripped again while you're already on your ***.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

what does the no flinch during banana hits mean?

You know how Giga doesn't flinch due to super armor on EVERYTHING?

Like that. Except with naners. And only when you're in SlipWait.