At long last, Presenting GSH2, a Brawl+ Nightly Test Set and Discussion Topic

[Shadic]

Only Link.

And I don't expect him to actually end up with this. It's just a distant dream.

Until Melee2.0, at least.

 

[Dan_X]

frankly, this new project bothers me. brawl+ is already knee deep and continues to get better, but a new...what you're proposing...strikes fear in my heart. how could b+ compete with...that?

Easy. They're two different games. One, Brawl+, is specifically designed as a balanced tournament game. P:M is somthing I'm looking forward to in a huge way!!-- but it won't have the same focus B+ has. It'll be a great option to play for fun. Keep up the good work Shanus.. Whatever that good work might be. I'm extremely excited about the unknown. It's like when I checked the official smash website everynight before the game came out-- it was suspenseful and exciting!

In conclusion, each project aspires to a different ends, one a competitive fighter, that is what Brawl should have been, the other... Everything that Brawl+ can't be.

 

[Alphatron]

Since 5.0 or GSH1? Because I think hitlag was increased slightly in GSH1/GSH2, which would do it.

GSH1. I don't really mind it, but level 9 cpus are escaping some of my attacks with ease. I did a Jiggs dair right on top of Luigi and he just walked away in the middle of it.

 

[Comeback Kid]

So I'm the new guy jumping into the latest build thread, I'm dangerous like that. But reading about Project Melee and the direction of Brawl+ had me curious about something: why is Brawl+ still so floaty? I would think that would be the first thing that a veteran smasher would want changed actually. Is it to please the Brawl fans or are there gameplay reasons (floatier characters mean more strings and also the Brawl engine wouldn't allow Melee's speed in the first place, so more gravity wouldn't feel right anyway.

 

[ValTroX]

Well, they are trying to work on that Comeback Kid, but these type of changes require a LOT of work since they have to redo almost all aerials(due to gravity change and timing stuff). I don't know if it'll ever happen, but don't expect that kind of change any time soon.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

So I'm the new guy jumping into the latest build thread, I'm dangerous like that. But reading about Project Melee and the direction of Brawl+ had me curious about something: why is Brawl+ still so floaty? I would think that would be the first thing that a veteran smasher would want changed actually. Is it to please the Brawl fans or are there gameplay reasons (floatier characters mean more strings and also the Brawl engine wouldn't allow Melee's speed in the first place, so more gravity wouldn't feel right anyway.

Because this is Brawl+, not Melee 2.0 (ProjectM). Considering air mobility has been toned down (screwed with) already, I like the current gravity as it is. It's not as floaty as Brawl but not as friggin heavy as Melee. ¦D

 

[Yeroc]

It's true. When the original WBR was formed, we spent a great deal of time working on just the gravity settings, knowing that they'd be the foundation of everything else to come. We focused solely on tweaking Almas's gravity codes, so that they would be exactly where we wanted them.

Not to critize harmless inquiries, but I feel like few people understand how deeply reworking the gravity could affect the established balance of the game. Gravity settings are used in calculating knockback, and also interact with launch angles. Simply put, increasing gravity across the cast changes the way moves treat those characters when they get hit. The change affects the balance of how versatile characters' recoveries are. Hitstun would need to be tweaked all over again from the beginning to find just the right balance of how much to give. Throws would have to be reevaluated. Simply put, we would have to start the project over, and reevaluate every single change we've implemented so far. Then we'd still probably have to go back and look at things we didn't change to see how they were affected.

Yes, Brawl+ is still very floaty compared to Melee. But you should try it compared to vBrawl. There's a much greater diversity of falling speed now, and it's maybe not what some people were looking for, but it's too late to change it for a serious tournament build as close to being finished as I'm hoping GSH2 is.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Because this is Brawl+, not Melee 2.0

At least Yeroc gave me a real response I appreciate, not a tired catch phrase used to shut down debate.

 

[grim mouser]

Are my .pacs wrong, or were these intentional...?

Ganon's jab is now a lot slower than in GSH1/RC1. It's not at all a "GTFO move" or even a quick jab.

Many characters seem to have a lot of ledgegrab lag again. That is, when Jiggs ledgegrabs, she can't immediately act like she could in GSH1/RC1.

 

[Alphatron]

Redownload your pacs. Either manually or via the auto updater.

Also, anyone want to play on Wifi.

 

[5ive]

Redownload your pacs. Either manually or via the auto updater.

Also, anyone want to play on Wifi.

http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/BrawlPlus
Ask here. There are tons who play wifi on the IRC.

 

[Alphatron]

Posting from the Wii. Wii+IRC chat=lol won't work. I can type but there's no way for me to submit anything I write.

...I need a laptop....;_;

 

[Isatis]

This is not the topic to ask for WiFi matches, see the social thread for that

 

[Cero]

I just got my Wii back yesterday and just updated GSH2.
Last time I was playing Brawl+, I was using 4.1 (I think).

I noticed that Pit's stage was changed and Hyrule Temple was replaced with an SSE stage. Are there any other stages that have been changed as well?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

....luigi's mansion is slowed down....

Pokemon Stadium two is frozen in the first form...

WarioWare is frozen...

any others I'm missing?

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I'm pretty sure he already knows those, since those have been that way for a long time now (maybe except for Luigi's Mansion).

 

[Cero]

Yep. Already knew about those.

So, is Skyworld and the SSE stage the only things that are new?

 

[grim mouser]

Hm, don't think it was just my .pacs now.

Ganon's jab is still slow, but his ALR is working fine.

Some characters' ledgegrab times are fine (e.g. Pika), but others are definitely slower than GSH1/RC1 (tested MK, Jiggs, Falcon, Fox, and a few others).

Are my files getting corrupted somehow, or was the lag increase an intentional balance?

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

...I haven't seen any problem with Falcon's ledgegrabs at all...You sure you've got the right stuff? o.o

 

[grim mouser]

Yeah. I re-downloaded the .pac, I have the codes up...

Unless I'm being super-placebo'd, but I really doubt it.

Best example I've noticed- Marth can no longer rapidly grab, drop, and re-grab the ledge. It's not my buffer, as I am still using the same buffer value as in RC1.

 

[ValTroX]

Guys, i was thinking, is there any way to remove the bottom floor of spear pillar? If you do, combined with the stage freeze, it would make for a wonderful neutral, and it's one of the stages that actually have good edges. It would be an awesome stage to play in, since it looks cool too

 

[MK26]

oh ****

we actually can

we can edit the collision data
we can probably change the bottom of the stage to be transparent, and we can definitely move it to be below the bottom blast line

but the question is...what will that accomplish? i definitely dont think the pokemon make an acceptable stage hazard, and iirc theres not much goin onin the way of platforms

 

[Shadic]

Remove the Pokemon. Keep the platforms moving up and down. Remove the bottom completely, and give it a normal bottom blastzone.

It's like a slightly different Battlefield!

 

[Dan_X]

I say go for it. I'd like as many new stages or altered stages in this project as possible. I like options.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Dantarion has been working on a Spear Pillar edit for a while, now. I'm not sure which idea it is, but I hope that it's the one with the middle and left chuck broken permanently and the side boundaries moved to the left.

 

[GHNeko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-iJ5-6PIsA

Speed Up and then CP status is achievable.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

so is GSH2 going to become the official brawl+ or should i just keep rc1?

 

[CountKaiser]

Ya know

I see all these awesome stage edits

But STILL no Port Town Aero Dive with cars of reduced KB. D:

 

[ValTroX]

oh ****

we actually can

we can edit the collision data
we can probably change the bottom of the stage to be transparent, and we can definitely move it to be below the bottom blast line

but the question is...what will that accomplish? i definitely dont think the pokemon make an acceptable stage hazard, and iirc theres not much goin onin the way of platforms

Well, I say go for it. I haven't played this stage for ages, but if i'm not mistaken, the platforms move, si it will be like a new FoD *drools*

Remove the Pokemon. Keep the platforms moving up and down. Remove the bottom completely, and give it a normal bottom blastzone.

It's like a slightly different Battlefield!

I had something like this in mind.

Dantarion has been working on a Spear Pillar edit for a while, now. I'm not sure which idea it is, but I hope that it's the one with the middle and left chuck broken permanently and the side boundaries moved to the left.

Well, while it's not a bad idea, I certainly preffer the bottom zone completely gone because it would make the stage WAY less campier. For instance imagine a good, defensive Mario on the stage Danty suggested,on the worst of situations he's a great techer, and he's camping below the right side of the map, makes him hard to kill and Mario's back throw is lethal. So I still think that removing bottom floor is the best way the stage can work.

 

[ValTroX]

Well, I played some of the stages that we don normally use and came up with some ideas:

1)Spear Pillar: I stick to my idea of removing the bottom platform, if it's possible, leave the Pokemon but remove their power, it makes the stage color change a bit and give it less of a static atmosphere.

2)Green Greens: Remove the falling blocks and stop them from dropping. If it makes you guys feel better, remove the 2 lateral platforms and move the blast zones in. Also, remove some kb from the apples, they seem to hit hard o.o.

3)Pokemon Stadium(Melee): Make the windmill like melee , solid windmill sucks.

I do not know if any of this changes are possible, they are merely suggestions but I would like to hear your thoughts on them.

 

[RPGsFTW]

On the discussion of stages in the not stage thread. =P

I would like to see:

- Sky World+ with ledges hitstun fixed. This was my most favorite CP at our tournaments until you guys made a decision against it, sorta.

- Castle Siege frozen at the first part. The second part is for stalling/camping. I don't see any good coming from the second part. The third part is just another FD, but it tilts a little. First only, please!

- Port Town Aero Dive+. Weaker cars, no cars, certain areas limited? I'd love this.

- Distant Planet+. Constant water, no bulborb, stage moved slightly to the right, with the right side boundaries shrunk a bit to match.

I think Big Blue+ seems really stupid. What does it have going for it? I see another ugly FD. Guh, I hate FD. >=[

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

On the discussion of stages in the not stage thread. =P

I would like to see:

- Sky World+ with ledges hitstun fixed. This was my most favorite CP at our tournaments until you guys made a decision against it, sorta.

- Castle Siege frozen at the first part. The second part is for stalling/camping. I don't see any good coming from the second part. The third part is just another FD, but it tilts a little. First only, please!

- Port Town Aero Dive+. Weaker cars, no cars, certain areas limited? I'd love this.

- Distant Planet+. Constant water, no bulborb, stage moved slightly to the right, with the right side boundaries shrunk a bit to match.

I think Big Blue+ seems really stupid. What does it have going for it? I see another ugly FD. Guh, I hate FD. >=[

...You have weird tastes, if any. And that's all the negativity I'm going to convey on that subject. XD

 

[Isatis]

I'd definitely move this discussion to the stage thread if I were you guys >_> <_< even if just planning on future stages

 

[ValTroX]

Alrighty Bio, can you link me the stage thread though?

 

[Shadic]

...You have weird tastes, if any. And that's all the negativity I'm going to convey on that subject. XD

You care to elaborate? Explain how you feel on the matter? Justify your statements?

I agree with RPG here, although Distant Planet was shown to be broken with constant water, I believe. Ganondorf's Aerial Choke is hilarious with the water streaming.

And I think Port Town is just a mediocre stage, honestly. Weaker the cars if you want, I still won't like it.

Skyworld+ with a fixed bottom platform, and frozen Castle Siege would both be awesome. Mostly Skyworld.

And I don't like "Big Blue+". What's the point if it's just a flat stage with a track below it? Why not use any other vastly superior flat surface?

Edit:

I'd definitely move this discussion to the stage thread if I were you guys >_> <_< even if just planning on future stages

Ah crap. Ninja'd by mod telling me to bring this elsewhere. Sorry Bio, I honestly didn't see that post.

To make it up: The thread we should carry this to is Here.
(It's not that hard to search one page back! Ctrl-F "stage" is your friend!)

 

[GHNeko]

I think Big Blue+ seems really stupid. What does it have going for it? I see another ugly FD. Guh, I hate FD. >=[

1. Actually. It's not completely flat.

It goes...

----\
------------\

People who've played on Big Blue outside of the monthly 3 matches with items on would notice that Blue Falcon isnt only flat.

Also. There is ground under the ship meaning that the bottom blast zone is not always there. Also meaning this stage also a straight up CP, that really can't be circle camped. Also, no dumb ledges and this stage has potential for unique Big Blue+ tactics.

Anyone who calls this another FD needs to learn more about their stages.

 

[Isatis]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230953

 

[SymphonicSage12]

A couple of things I noticed:

Ivy's forward throw has a lower angle...a similar angle to jiggs down smash

ivy's dair does not halt his momentum as much in the air

pit has the refreshable up b (but gets weaker over time) thingymabob....

yeah nice work...again.

 

[grim mouser]

Could someone else test Marth's ledgegrab lag and see if it is faulty? If there is no/very little lag, then I am dumbfounded as to why I'm getting so much lag. Especially since ALR works. =\

 

[VietGeek]

why was wolf's bair alr changed from 9 lag frames (vB) to 10 lag frames (GSH2)?