Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[Kimimaru]

I unfortunately was not able to make it to the NorCal Arcadian today due to a bad fever I caught last night. There were roughly 300 entrants for singles and 90 for doubles, making it one of the biggest tournaments ever (in a tiny venue)!

 

[MrHazuki]

I played at Super Nebulous 2 in NYC today.
Lost to HectoHertz and Hax in pools. It was really close against Hertz, who really knows how to handle Yoshi. I've never played as well as I did against Hax. He couldn't overrun me with his massive pressure, since my reads and parries were super-on point. Still, it's Hax, so 2-stocked me twice.
Lost to Idris (Fox) and White Mike (Sheik) in Intermediate Bracket (for 3rd-4th seeds).

I'm really psyched for APEX2015 now. I got MacD in my pool, and I think I'll go Ganon against him if I face him. Yoshi is simply not worth using there.

 

[Purpletuce]

I'd just go Yoshi for the experience if I were you... but still I can hardly talk.

I've pretty much given up on Yoshi for now. While he is fun, spacies are so much easier to play. Got 4th at a 51 man tournament with most of our PR there. I used Fox/Falco.

 

[SwiggitySwo0ty]

Does anyone find it hard to get games in with Yoshi? I have a hard time improving because a lot of people in my area seem to consider playing against him a waste of their time. That combined with the fact that I am newer to the scene has seemed to have ostracized me. There's not much I can learn in two matches a week. I host no one comes, I ask if anyone is hosting no one replies.

It especially sucks because I am so passionate and put in a lot of work in the lab. As a result I have great technical ability but almost no fundamentals/mind games.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Purpletuce]

Keep getting good, and try to go to them if they won't come to you. I'm sorry people feel that way though.

 

[kofinater]

Not gonna lie i think i'm done playing yoshi-peach and yoshi-Luigi

 

[Purpletuce]

Interesting MUs to be afraid of... I think you need to work on spacing/juggling? Those are really hard MUs if you mess up spacing, but get better the more precise you play.

 

[Kimimaru]

The campier you play vs Peach the better you'll do. As for Luigi, I know you play against Abate a lot, who is arguably the best Luigi in the world, so I wouldn't consider switching yet. Have you played any less-skilled Luigi players?

 

[kofinater]

The campier you play vs Peach the better you'll do. As for Luigi, I know you play against Abate a lot, who is arguably the best Luigi in the world, so I wouldn't consider switching yet. Have you played any less-skilled Luigi players?

I I don't really lose to Luigi's worse then me per say I also play vudujin a lot as well, so he's probably like 3rd or 4th best luigi in the world, but then there is Groovy Green Hat who i would say is about the same skill level as me. He has a similar resume of PR'd players that he's beaten, but i'm 0-4 against him and it keeps getting harder. I feel very confident about what to do when luigi is off stage and when he's above me but getting luigi to that position seems rather difficult given how good luigi is on the ground. Also Luigi's dair knocks yoshi out of dj really early and he can fair like right after. As for peach, it feels like I have to play disproportional well to beat bad beaches and its never been fun, I've occasionally done well against pretty good peaches and i think i know what to do in the MU and do think I could improve a lot in it but i always feel like i have to be in a certain type of mood to play peach and when i'm not in that mood I've lost to some pretty bad peaches.

 

[Purpletuce]

To try to get them off the ground, have you used neutral B? One of the only situations I use that move... They're so floaty that they have to go up after breaking out, and you can catch them on the way down.

 

[Pάρί]

Can someone tell me how to parry?

I've seen people explain it but, not how to actually parry.

 

[Sashimi]

Press L or R right when before you get hit by an attack. It will not be useful if you only do this, however. Jump out after blocking the attack, or grab/roll/spotdodge/shield drop (jump is usually best since you get the best options from this).

Make sure you are pressing L or R down fully (the point at which you hear the click) on the first frame, or else the parry will not work properly. Trigger tricking (look above for explanation) or removing the spring from your controller will make this very easy.

 

[Kim Steinbach-Reif]

What makes Yoshi being better in PAL? I understand the changes:

• Yoshi is heavier (111 instead of 108).
• Forward and up smashes deal 1% more damage.
• Down aerial deals considerably less damage (38% instead of 53%).

But what how does it make a huge difference? I mean his weight is higher by 3, Forward and Up-Smash deals 1% more, and his Down Aerial is nerfed by 15%. It seems like it is barely any difference at all.

 

[Sashimi]

Fox/Falco/Marth/Sheik are nerfed in PAL, which helps Yoshi a bit (especially Sheik because she loses the chaingrab and, if I'm not mistaken, guaranteed high % followups from Dthrow). Yoshi's weight buff is actually noticeable. A difference of 3 weight units doesn't sound like much, but it really helps (especially since it also means Yoshi's armor works at slightly higher %). The Usmash indirectly doing more knockback as a result of the damage buff also helps vs floaties. Dair nerf doesn't mean much because Dair is a situational move in the first place.

 

[MrHazuki]

It took me a lot of matches to get used to NTSC-Yoshi. The biggest factor to me is the weight, especially how early some attacks breaks his armour. It is a big difference.

 

[Kimimaru]

I'm entering a Project M tournament tomorrow; do any Yoshis have some dos/donts when playing PM Yoshi vs Melee Yoshi?

 

[MrHazuki]

Do: Play Melee Yoshi
Don't: Play PM Yoshi

 

[Mind Trick]

I'd say PM Yoshi is probably more viable than Melee Yoshi
Definitely miss the fun of parrying though, and some of the animations just look and feel weird.

Eggroll is now better for recovery mixups.
RAR bair is pretty awesome.
Using rising djc upair in combos makes you able to follow up longer.
Dair seems to be wayyyyy better and actually has legit uses now.
Eggs are even more annoying to deal with for the opponent.
You can now acttualy use your shield like other characters would lol

Normal melee yoshi stuff still works pretty much the same.

One last note; if you haven't practised ECE in PM, don't use it

 

[Pάρί]

What do you think yoshi's best/worst match ups?

 

[Sashimi]

Worst: Peach/Sheik/Fox

Best (of the relevant ones): Marth Puff ICs

Some players may disagree. An argument can be made for Sheik not being bad (see aMSa).

 

[Kim Steinbach-Reif]

I'm having some harsh trouble right now and it's making me furious and so mad. Just a little background: Basically I've been playing Falco vs my brothers Fox for almost half a year since we picked those characters up and we've been doing decent against eachother. He's always the topdog and I tend to lose more than him. Anywho I wasn't happy with Falco so I tried Yoshi and loved him for the first moment I played him. Perhaps a silly thing to do when playing against a decent Fox with good tech skill and you're a fresh Yoshi, but I want to try and see what I can do.

I'm well aware that I am far behind him in terms of tech skill now with my switch and I am facing an uphill battle from here and onwards. Also I've yet to see an well written and in-depth guide about most matchups, specially Fox which I'm struggling against. He just steamrolls over me and I'm getting incredibly salty about it. It makes me regret my switch and even if I go back he will still win and this puts me in a bad state of mind which is really tearing on me.

1) How should you approach Fox? As far as I've read Fair is a good tool to get a Up-air combo started, the thing is I can't for the love of god space it correctly. He can simply hang back at the side of the stage and just dash dance or laser me till I approach and this stress me up and makes me go auto-pilot and make a badly spaced Fair or another move. How should I improve my spacing of my moves, especially when approaching? I tend to approach with either a Fair or a D-tilt to make him respect my space, and sometimes I go with just a Bair, but whether this is the correct way to approach, what do I do after it? How do I go for approach -> getting a combo started?

2) How do you deal with the pressure and combos? First of all, whenever I miss a move or hit his shield I get so badly punished it's insane. Let's say I miss a Fair or a badly timed D-tilt, he runs in and starts a Drill-> Shine -> Shine.... -> Up-Smash, how do I get out of this? I understand the best thing to do is to not get hit by the Drill, easier said that done, and also to SDI/DI the shine away to make it harder for him, but even if I do that I am still on the defense and am pressured. How do I get out of sticky situations like this and make a turnaround from defensive to neutral or even start my own combo? Futhermore whenever he gets a grab and does an Up-Throw or simply has gotten me high up in the air, I am such a easy bait to get Up-air'd till I die. Is there a good way to come down with a move or should I just fall down and try avoid any hit and try make it back safe?

3) What techniques should I start learning, specifically for this matchup? I just want to know what techniques is essential to win this matchup in general, I don't want to keep losing and get salty each and every day I play. Are DJC, Egg Stall mostly what is needed? I understand that Parrying is also a very good tool, but it's kind of hard in comparison and I don''t think it's as needed as other techniques, or am I wrong? I want to learn the basic techniques before I learn the more advanced like Parry and such things. I want to win by any means and then improve and try to do it even better.

4) Misc questions:
- People suggests that to make Parrying easier, they reset their shield button (hold down shield button before plugging in) to remove lightshielding. But is it really worth learning to parry this way and lose the ability to lightshield? Should I parry with one shoulder button and lightshield with one or just forget about lightshielding?

- Whenever I am on the ledge, should I always go for ledgedash at all time?

- What does most Yoshi mains use when performing DJC aerials? Do they use X/Y with C-stick or X/Y+ Tap Jump with A or do I go with what I feel is easier for me? I don't want to learn some stupid way of performing them when perhaps another way is better. Does using one setup make it harder than another?

- Is there an easy way to do an angeled Egg Throw? I can't count the times I do an Egg Roll instead of the egg toss and it makes me look so stupid that I'm rolling around like a total newb.

- How do I KO Fox when he is high up in the air? I tend to most of the times not reach him in time, should I wait for him to fall down? and if I right him what is the best move to use?

- How long does it take to become a decent Yoshi? Like time-wise, compared to other characters like Fox or other top tiers, how long does it take? Also, how much of becoming a good Yoshi is knowing all the techniques verus knowing specific matchups?

PS: I'm sorry if many of these can be answered by reading many of the guides on here or simply by getting experience, but it's so difficult to find a specific answer for the question you have, so if many of these are answered somewhere else specificaly then please point me in that direction but just don't say "Read this guide" and then leave me hanging.

 

[Sashimi]

Spoiler

I'm having some harsh trouble right now and it's making me furious and so mad. Just a little background: Basically I've been playing Falco vs my brothers Fox for almost half a year since we picked those characters up and we've been doing decent against eachother. He's always the topdog and I tend to lose more than him. Anywho I wasn't happy with Falco so I tried Yoshi and loved him for the first moment I played him. Perhaps a silly thing to do when playing against a decent Fox with good tech skill and you're a fresh Yoshi, but I want to try and see what I can do.

I'm well aware that I am far behind him in terms of tech skill now with my switch and I am facing an uphill battle from here and onwards. Also I've yet to see an well written and in-depth guide about most matchups, specially Fox which I'm struggling against. He just steamrolls over me and I'm getting incredibly salty about it. It makes me regret my switch and even if I go back he will still win and this puts me in a bad state of mind which is really tearing on me.

How long since you switched? Yoshi takes a lot of work, and the improvement will not show right away.

Unfortunately there are no real matchup guides for Yoshi. You can get advice for matchups by using the search function or just asking us if you don't find anything. Also watching videos helps.

1) How should you approach Fox? As far as I've read Fair is a good tool to get a Up-air combo started, the thing is I can't for the love of god space it correctly. He can simply hang back at the side of the stage and just dash dance or laser me till I approach and this stress me up and makes me go auto-pilot and make a badly spaced Fair or another move. How should I improve my spacing of my moves, especially when approaching? I tend to approach with either a Fair or a D-tilt to make him respect my space, and sometimes I go with just a Bair, but whether this is the correct way to approach, what do I do after it? How do I go for approach -> getting a combo started?

Fair is usually used to stop approaches. Jumping towards your opponent with Fair will let your opponent outspace it or hit you during the startup. If you want to challenge your opponent's space, Dtilt is good against Fox, as well as DJC Egg Lay, but remember that you can't just run at your opponent and attack with any character.

Bair is okay, but don't do it when Fox has the opportunity to dash back. Use it when he's cornered if you think he wants to jump. Getting a combo off of something takes time to learn because there are so many variables. What your opponent does changes your potential follow-ups, and your spacing does as well. You will also get more follow-ups if you are able to do them without having to think about where your current attack will send your opponent. This comes with playing the game a lot. Some early things to try are Bair > Utilt or turnaround Dsmash/Ftilt, DJC Nair > Ftilt/Dtilt, Dthrow > DJC Uair. Fair will lead to anything you want usually but % changes what you can get. At 0% try any tilt or DJC Nair, at mid % try DJC Uair, and at high % try Nair or Uair. These are just a few ideas. You will find that comboing is very improvisational and varied.

2) How do you deal with the pressure and combos? First of all, whenever I miss a move or hit his shield I get so badly punished it's insane. Let's say I miss a Fair or a badly timed D-tilt, he runs in and starts a Drill-> Shine -> Shine.... -> Up-Smash, how do I get out of this? I understand the best thing to do is to not get hit by the Drill, easier said that done, and also to SDI/DI the shine away to make it harder for him, but even if I do that I am still on the defense and am pressured. How do I get out of sticky situations like this and make a turnaround from defensive to neutral or even start my own combo? Futhermore whenever he gets a grab and does an Up-Throw or simply has gotten me high up in the air, I am such a easy bait to get Up-air'd till I die. Is there a good way to come down with a move or should I just fall down and try avoid any hit and try make it back safe?

Fair, Dtilt, Uair, Bair and Nair can all be performed safely on shield. Nothing is unbeatable and you will have to do certain things to make these moves safe. Vs Fox, Fair, Dtilt, Bair and Nair can outspace his shieldgrab and shine OoS (DJC Nair is tricky because you need to do a retreating DJC to land far enough away, or you can turn around or dash back after the Nair), and Bair, Nair and Uair can be used to cross up (preventing shieldgrab). Cross ups are not as effective against Fox as other characters because of Shine OoS. Nair > Dsmash/Ftilt/Jab can be used as a frame trap to beat shieldgrab or an aerial (Fox usually does Dair or Bair), but these frame traps will lose to Fox waiting out whatever comes after the Nair. DJC Nair/Uair/Fair can be followed by a Parry to make it safe vs anything OoS other than Dair (as long as you time the parry properly). Also remember that you have dashgrab and egg lay.

Fox waveshining is inescapable for Yoshi without double SDI (which is not reasonable to do). This is not a reason to be salty; Melee has all kinds of combos and Fox gets wrecked by combos too. Your best bet is to avoid getting in these situations. Remember that movement is the key to getting into good positions and getting out of bad positions.

Once you do get out of a combo, dash away, parry, crouch cancel, jump and roll are probably your best options. Some of these are obviously better than others, so do what you can. Remember that your opponent still has positional advantage here so you're not going to get away for free. Starting your own combo from something like this will usually require your opponent to make a significant mistake. One common one vs bad Fox players and ones who aren't used to Yoshi is being late with waveshine > Usmash. If you notice that your opponent is not warmed up or just not used to how far Yoshi slides you can get away with shieldgrabbing the Usmash, but again this requires Fox to make a mistake while comboing you.

Getting outspaced is just a result of you either having poor spacing in general, attacking when/where you shouldn't have, or using the wrong move for the situation. This takes time to improve.

3) What techniques should I start learning, specifically for this matchup? I just want to know what techniques is essential to win this matchup in general, I don't want to keep losing and get salty each and every day I play. Are DJC, Egg Stall mostly what is needed? I understand that Parrying is also a very good tool, but it's kind of hard in comparison and I don''t think it's as needed as other techniques, or am I wrong? I want to learn the basic techniques before I learn the more advanced like Parry and such things. I want to win by any means and then improve and try to do it even better.

DJC of all kinds; fast, slow, high, low, forward, in place, reverse, retreating. Wavedash forward after DJC Nair works wonders around 25-50% against Fox. Wavedash forward after Dthrow if Fox DIs away. Dashdancing gets you grabs and Nairs. Retreating Fair out of a dash forward as well as run cancel Dtilt/Dsmash. Wavelanding to get you out of bad places and into good ones and to keep your movement unpredictable. Approaching from the platforms works sometimes[/]. Shield dropping (including Uair and Nair after the shield drop but you don't always have to attack after a shield drop) and light shielding. Parrying is essential for Yoshi to succeed in probably every matchup. You might be able to get away without it vs some characters or players but it opens up so many options for Yoshi and is just fun to do so it is worth learning. If you still have movement to learn or more basic things like bread n butter combos or non Yoshi-specific tech, don't learn parrying yet. On the ledge you have many options. The best and most important ones (imo) are edge-cancelled eggs, waveland from the ledge, yoshi bomb ledge stall and aerial interrupt.

4) Misc questions:
- People suggests that to make Parrying easier, they reset their shield button (hold down shield button before plugging in) to remove lightshielding. But is it really worth learning to parry this way and lose the ability to lightshield? Should I parry with one shoulder button and lightshield with one or just forget about lightshielding?

Use the trigger trick always and light shield with whichever trigger you don't use to parry.

- Whenever I am on the ledge, should I always go for ledgedash at all time?

Aerial interrupt gets you more time to act while intangible but will leave you right on the ledge while wavelanding gets you 1/3 of the way onstage on small stages. Double jumping to a platform can also be useful. Ledgehop aerial is tricky but has niche uses, and I find getup attack to be a nice and very easy trap when my opponent is trying to hit me out of edge-cancelled eggs. None of these things are perfect, so keep it unpredictable.

- What does most Yoshi mains use when performing DJC aerials? Do they use X/Y with C-stick or X/Y+ Tap Jump with A or do I go with what I feel is easier for me? I don't want to learn some stupid way of performing them when perhaps another way is better. Does using one setup make it harder than another?

I like to double tap Y and then A because I find using Y + tap jump makes me double jump land often. I think most people who use DJC characters do Y/X + tap jump so you should try that and see how you like it. C-stick goes best if you're using tap jump.

- Is there an easy way to do an angeled Egg Throw? I can't count the times I do an Egg Roll instead of the egg toss and it makes me look so stupid that I'm rolling around like a total newb.

Hold straight up while you hit B, then afterwards aim the egg by moving the stick. You don't have to aim it right when you hit B.

- How do I KO Fox when he is high up in the air? I tend to most of the times not reach him in time, should I wait for him to fall down? and if I right him what is the best move to use?

It depends on what % he is and how he got so high in the air. If you're ending Uair combos with Fox too high to follow up, you should try ending the combo early with something else like Nair, Bair > Nair or Fair > techchase. If you can, combo them towards a low platform and end with Dsmash. I have seen aMSa end by doing a really slow DJC Uair that carried him to the top platform and let him end with Yoshi Bomb vs Fiction, but it seems pretty situational.

If you're unable to follow-up after a Fair, you're just not getting to him fast enough (unless he's at a super high % like 140).

- How long does it take to become a decent Yoshi? Like time-wise, compared to other characters like Fox or other top tiers, how long does it take? Also, how much of becoming a good Yoshi is knowing all the techniques verus knowing specific matchups?

It's said that it takes a year to learn Melee. Before this point you will probably always have at least one major unexplored thing (ie. neutral game, punish game, DI, edgeguarding, spacing, etc however general or specific you want to go). It was about a year before I considered myself to be comfortable with every matchup and the basics of the game. But I was also told by many players that I improved quickly. I think Yoshi probably takes longer than most characters because of his high skill floor and the fact that, at a low level, characters like Sheik have a very easy punish game (ex: chaingrab on Yoshi and simple Ftilt followups) compared to Yoshi's amazing but also difficult punish game.

Yoshi really requires everything to succeed. You will need good tech skill and a good understanding of the game. The general order I like to tell people to aim for is: 1) Get comfortable with the game and learn basic tech skill, 2) Learn basic neutral game, 3) Work on punish game until it's amazing, 4) Refine neutral game. Over these 4 steps you can add matchup knowledge and new tech skill when you find uses for it. Once you've done that, you've "learned the game" but you're not a top player. There is always room for improvement in Melee. I've heard Mango suggests the same thing to new players.

Hope this helps!

 

[kofinater]

aMSa top 8!!!!!!! I honestly learned so much in that set vs sfat hahahaha

 

[SNEAKY_URKEL]

so guys, a few weeks ago I unfollowed this thread because I decided to switch back to fox

I may be rejoining the Yoshi main crew... just watching aMSa during this...

 

[Sashimi]

Wow, huge props to aMSa for that 5th place finish. He has clearly improved his Fox matchup and his neutral game in general.

...and he clearly knows something about the Sheik chaingrab. I'm going to look into it.

 

[kofinater]

Wow, huge props to aMSa for that 5th place finish. He has clearly improved his Fox matchup and his neutral game in general.

...and he clearly knows something about the Sheik chaingrab. I'm going to look into it.

My friend is pretty good at chain grabbing me, but when he was playing against cpu 20xx yoshi it DI'd behind and didn't jump. I'm sure you guys do this, but against a lot of sheiks i can DI behind and mash djc nair, but i think the dj actually puts yoshi's hurtbox in a more grab-able position then just falling out. That said amsa doesn't typically DI behind vs japanesel sheik's cause i think its a free uptilt/upsmash -> combo.

 

[Pάρί]

What are yoshi's good and bad match ups?

 

[Purpletuce]

I don't think it is something aMSa knows about the chaingrab, it is something M2K and KK don't know. I'm pretty sure neither play has put a single minute into learning how to do it, and that is why when they failed in tournament, they gave up on it entirely.

When M2K came to Oregon, in a room with an unranked Oregon Marth, Fox, and Shiek. . . M2K was the only one who couldn't CG me.

Edit: Yoshis good/bad match ups were written 6 posts above you.

 

[Kimimaru]

I'm very proud of aMSa for his 5th place finish! He continues to get better and better; I hope he will make it into the top 3 soon enough!

I really like PM Yoshi and managed to take 1st in Singles and Doubles last Saturday! The overall skill level in the PM scene in this region is much lower than Melee's. Being able to jump OOS is the biggest advantage PM Yoshi has over Melee Yoshi.

 

[Dinowulf]

I'm going to a major tournament this weekend and i have to fight Eiklemann in Round Robin Pools What is a good battle plan picking levels against ganondorf?

 

[Sashimi]

I like lots of space vs Ganondorf. Yoshi is faster, and most of your KOs will come from edgeguards while Ganon's will come from some edgeguards and some blast zone KOs, so bigger stages favour you. You also don't want to be stuck above Ganondorf. I like FD, Dream Land and Battlefield. Yoshi's and FoD can work but you have to be more careful, and Stadium can lead to early Ganon Dair KOs off the top so as long as you watch out for that it's fine.

 

[Purpletuce]

I really wanted to see aMSa vs Armada. . . That would have been interesting.

Against Ganon, I've always like to strike YS and FD, and ban FD. I'd CP to either DL or FoD... but I feel like that particular MU doesn't depend on stage very much as long as you have platforms. Both characters have similar properties.

 

[hamyojo]

Jeez, aMSa almost made me switch back to Yoshi in Melee... but I'm still sticking with Sheik for now. Learning a lot from her.

I'm very proud of aMSa for his 5th place finish! He continues to get better and better; I hope he will make it into the top 3 soon enough!

I really like PM Yoshi and managed to take 1st in Singles and Doubles last Saturday! The overall skill level in the PM scene in this region is much lower than Melee's. Being able to jump OOS is the biggest advantage PM Yoshi has over Melee Yoshi.

No it's not. It's his new grabs/throws. Try pivot grabbing with Yoshi in PM, it's amazing. Down throw chain=dash-grabs if they DI away (try on DK, Diddy, and Roy to get a feel) Also upthrow>uair is a thing now, try it. And down b pop up hitbox comes out on frame 2, so if you're pressuring a shield and decide to poke with a kill move, just do that. It's hilarious. I'm single handedly getting this character nerfed after a year of being silly, so you'll probably have to quit him soon, I think he's going to change a lot. Sorry~

 

[aMSa]

Thank you for watching me at Apex2015

about the matchups of Sheik :
do you know the knowledge of the port number?
against KK,I use "P4"(maybe KK knows it too. we did　paper-rock-scissors and I won )

because it reduces grabbing hit lag 1F
So it makes possible for you to get out of chain grab.

I think DJ counter and U-smash and F-Smash is really useful against Sheik.
I look for videos for reference.

Edit:
about U-smash,me vs M2K at Koc4.

 

[Purpletuce]

Port 4 reducing hitlag by 1 frame? I've seen multiple lists about port advantages, and never have I seen something so huge be mentioned. . . on several occasions I saw people trying to turn around regrab at low %, because they didn't know you're supposed to just standing grab again. . .

 

[Sashimi]

@ Purpletuce Standing regrab only works with certain DI. If you DI 135-180°, you can Nair them before standing regrab.

And wow, here I was trying out all kinds of things and it was the port number that mattered. Confirming what aMSa said:
At 0%, Port 2 Sheik is +10 after Dthrow against port 1 Yoshi, but +9 after Dthrow against Port 4 Yoshi.

Notice DamageFlyTop is on frame 23 vs frame 24. Each picture shows Sheik's first actionable frame.

I am not sure that this guarantees a way out yet, but it at least makes certain parts of the chaingrab very hard (ie. 1-frame window for regrab). I will keep looking unless aMSa comes back to blow my mind again.

Edit: I haven't heard of port priority affecting hitlag like this before, but I do know that Game & Watch has some weird port priority shenanigans involving knockback when he gets thrown by certain characters.

 

[Kimimaru]

Wow, that's seriously incredible and I can't believe that port priority affects something like this. I will keep this in mind when playing against Sheiks! I wonder what else your port number affects.

No it's not. It's his new grabs/throws. Try pivot grabbing with Yoshi in PM, it's amazing. Down throw chain=dash-grabs if they DI away (try on DK, Diddy, and Roy to get a feel) Also upthrow>uair is a thing now, try it. And down b pop up hitbox comes out on frame 2, so if you're pressuring a shield and decide to poke with a kill move, just do that. It's hilarious. I'm single handedly getting this character nerfed after a year of being silly, so you'll probably have to quit him soon, I think he's going to change a lot. Sorry~

I learned about U-throw -> U-air when playing and it is indeed amazing! I just think being able to jump out of shield helps him so much because of his extremely fast N-air.

 

[Dinowulf]

So with this new info being discovered what is the best port to fight shiek on and can you switch ports mid tournament?

 

[KevJames]

After months without Melee, I've finally come back and have a few beginner questions regarding Yoshi.

First off, how do the majority of players double jump cancel? I've been told that pressing Y + tap jump + aerial is primarily used. My question is if it superior/more efficient than simply pressing Y twice + aerial. Is there advantages/disadvantages for either? Or is it simply preference?

Additionally, are multiple DJC U-airs on spacies easier to perform with the a button or the c stick? I'm very much used to C-stick for aerials, but for Yoshi it feels like I'm relying more on the a button for these quick aerials. Once again, I'm sure its a matter of preference but I was just wondering what the majority of Yoshi players do.

 

[Klaww]

For DJC N-airs, I tend to just use Y for both jumps. For DJC U-airs, I use tapjump for both jumps + the C-stick to attack because I find it easier to feel out the rhythm that way. Although I'm terrible at chasing down their DI and following up with more U-airs. Come to think of it, I could use advice for that too.