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Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

Purpletuce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
1,316
Location
Corvallis, OR
I've removed the spring in my L button, I don't think it really makes a difference except for convenience. It is also an easy switch back and forth, in case something comes up, although I doubt anyone would make a big deal.

"Oh no! You better put that spring back in so you have to manually trigger trick every time! That'll keep these Yoshi mains in check..."
 

kofinater

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
148
@ultimamax @ Purpletuce Purpletuce trigger tricking works on 20XX, but on some usb loaders the controllers arent set properly disabling the ability to reset triggers for some reason. If set up properly it works fine.
 

kofinater

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
148
So I played with Cactuar for a few hours today, and he told me to learn to smash DI fox's drill. Does anyone have success with this? I feel like i was trying but shine still caught yoshi's big nose.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
@ K kofinater If the fox hits in the middle of yoshi, I don't think a single sdi is enough to escape shine. I don't know though, but it's very hard for me to escape well spaced drill shine.
 
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Purpletuce

Smash Lord
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Corvallis, OR
You can SDI to mix up which direction the shine sends you. If they fade in the direction they are facing to follow your SDI away, you're more likely to SDI behind them as they fade toward you, causing the shine to push you behind them. This will be harder for them to follow up, but they still can. Alternatively, if they fade back and you DI away, you may be able to get them to miss their shine.

Unfortunately I feel as if this is more about keeping them honest then actually escaping the combo reliably. They should be able to follow up very easily.
 

Kimimaru

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
915
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CA
Hey guys, I have some good news. I'm moving back to NorCal in a week and will attend their second Arcadian on January 24. For those unfamiliar with an Arcadian, it is a tournament consisting of only unranked players. I haven't played Melee with a Gamecube controller since August and haven't played Melee against humans for several months now, so I'll try my best.

So I played with Cactuar for a few hours today, and he told me to learn to smash DI fox's drill. Does anyone have success with this? I feel like i was trying but shine still caught yoshi's big nose.
I've started doing it before and it has helped me escape some follow-ups occasionally. Basically there are a few possible ways Fox can be moving while drilling:
1. Moving towards you
2. Staying in place
3. Moving away

Cases 1 and 3 are the easiest to deal with, and you can just SDI towards Fox. However, if Fox connects the drill and is about to land sooner, you may want to SDI away from him.

Case 2 is harder to deal with, but fortunately Fox doesn't have the greatest aerial mobility and won't be able to move around much. SDI in a direction you think may benefit you more. For example, if you're near the edge, SDI towards the edge so if he shines you it'll knock you offstage/onto the edge where he'll trouble following up. The same applies with platforms. If you're in the middle of the stage or a position where you can't reliably avoid a follow-up (unless you had TAS SDI, at least), try to SDI in a way that makes it hard for Fox to tell whether the shine will hit you to the left or to the right.

In my experience, if Fox shines Yoshi from the furthest possible distance and Yoshi SDIs properly, he can't connect it with an U-Smash before Yoshi can parry. @ Sashimi Sashimi Do you think you can test this?
 
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Sashimi

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
704
As it turns out, Fox can still just barely Usmash you. However, from max distance, 1 SDI input + ASDI will put you far enough away that Fox has to be absolutely frame perfect in order to land the Usmash before you can parry.



In the gif, Yoshi inputs a parry on the frame that Fox's Usmash hits, but is in his last frame of hitstun so the parry doesn't come out.

After seeing this, I am definitely going to put more effort into SDIing Shine from now on.
 

kofinater

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
148
cool, i've had some success with sdi'ng shine for sure. Some of the better fox's still catch the upsmash but i get out of it a bunch vs less technical foxes.
 

kofinater

Smash Apprentice
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Nov 17, 2010
Messages
148
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeH3stQTj6U&list=UUP26rt0d-O0blYmFbRVyC8w.

Hey Guys. I wanted to start analyzing my matches more but i'm pretty bad at it. lmao. Could anyone evaluate on this set i did against a friend of mine?
So when annalyzing my own sets i take the mantra "Don't get hit" and ask my self "why was i hit" "was it a read" "was I baited?" I find that asking questions like that helps me figure out how to avoid my opponents attacks and move more purposefully in neutral. Similar questions for punish game would be "Why did I drop this", "was there a better option". I'll look at game 1 as if it was my own with a few time stamps as examples.
0:16 ran into an up tilt because of missed spaced djc upair, as well as this the upair would not have lead to much at 0 so may have been ill advised, if the falco's combo game was a bit better could have taken some fat damage.
0:20 good got the grab at low percent but you double jabbed which i'm pretty sure gives frame advantage at this percent. I like to regrab, or djc upair -> dtilt or just ditlt for stage. The nice thing about regrab in this situation is that if they DI away they are on the low platform which you can shark with uptilts.
0:24 nice little uptilt combo did the right thing imo by falling through the platform the problem is what you did afterwhich was go for the dair again falco is on the low platform uptilt would be a nightmare for him, but because you daired he now has the positional advantaged which he used to uptitlt
0:28 nice fall through upair again. The egg covered alot but unfortynately you miss judged his DI and he didnt land on the platform as you planned.
0:32 Falco is above you in the air that fair didnt really cover anything unless he fell through you with no hitbox, at your percent just tank whatever he was gonna throw.
0:40 nice sequence here, covered him escaping the corner high with the bair and started a combo with a uair, at this percent any of your combo starts should really take falco to over 100%, I would have djc uaired then naired him off stage for the edgegaurd but i think your combo choice was fine but just slow with the ftilt,
0:47 fantastic whiff punish with the djc bair and good follow up eggs should have grabbed ledge though, falco was jumpless and heading below stage after the egg could have definitely covered his options from ledge either by rolling up if he can't make it to stage or an invulnerable nair
1:04 Spacies DI'ing away from yoshi towards the ledge should be a nearly guaranteed follow up if not guaranteed but i havn't looked at the frames. Basically you can run up and dtilt in a way that covers missed tech or tech in place then react to the other 2 options. Here you walked up and should have dtilted his tech away but instead WD'd in
1:10 why you got hit? Shielding is a very tough situation to be in vs falco if he doesnt take the shield drop bait obviously your firend is aware of it and waited
1:20 jab reset at 48%? that has got to be a fatter punish, which in this case comes down to practicing your djc uair combos, in this situation you needed to dash back then djc uair immediatly which is fairly technical imo. Not sure if you could connect with the combo hitbox of ftilt here

I'm actually going to stop here and head to bead its pretty late but i hope you get the idea of how to analyze matches. The biggest thing for me was combo choice as far as general advice, at one point you regrabed falco at 60 off of down throw, when you could get an upair string to nair which does more damge and is gauranteed unlike regrab at 60.
 

Kimimaru

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
915
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As it turns out, Fox can still just barely Usmash you. However, from max distance, 1 SDI input + ASDI will put you far enough away that Fox has to be absolutely frame perfect in order to land the Usmash before you can parry.



In the gif, Yoshi inputs a parry on the frame that Fox's Usmash hits, but is in his last frame of hitstun so the parry doesn't come out.

After seeing this, I am definitely going to put more effort into SDIing Shine from now on.
Wouldn't shine cause more than one freeze frame, allowing you to SDI another time? Or is the ASDI performed on a different frame than the SDI (if i recall correctly, only one of them works on a given frame with the C-stick taking precedence)?
 
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Sashimi

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
704
@ Kimimaru Kimimaru

Unstaled Shine has 5 frames of hitlag for the player getting hit, meaning you could technically input SDI away twice. It would be very tough (tap away twice in 5 frames), but it would definitely send you far enough to avoid/parry Usmash. If you were fast enough to do this, it would be a good thing to do against an opponent who likes to waveshine multiple times.

ASDI happens on the frame after hitlag, so it is technically input on the last frame of hitlag. You could hold C-stick away to buffer the ASDI and hit the control stick away twice without worrying about missing the ASDI.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
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Feb 9, 2014
Messages
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if i recall correctly, only one of them works on a given frame with the C-stick taking precedence?
SDI cannot be inputted on the very last frame of hitlag when ASDI is inputted, so you are correct. C-stick can only be used for ASDI, for which it takes priority. Also when in doubt, search youtube for @Kadano 's awesome melee mechanics videos, that's what I just did :b:

@ Sashimi Sashimi The melee mechanics video I watched implies that ASDI happens on the last frame of hitlag.
 
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Purpletuce

Smash Lord
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Corvallis, OR
In case my post wasn't too clear, I was talking about avoiding getting hit by the shine, not avoiding the Usmash. That being said, I didn't realize if he hits at the tip of the shine, it forces him to be frame perfect on the follow up.

I miss aMSa.
 

Sashimi

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
704
@ T tauKhan As far as I can tell, ASDI input is read by the game on the last frame of hitlag, and then your character moves on the first frame after hitlag. Unless ASDI is much smaller than I realize, there's no movement happening on the last frame of hitlag.
 

Dinowulf

Smash Journeyman
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Jan 31, 2012
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Selma, Alabama
Iv'e been wondering about something. Would it possible to remove a screw so the L Button could only be set for light shielding? I'm already using my R button for trigger tricking which i love so far. but i was advised to use a Hard shield/Light shield mixup to get some space. Should i just keep working on the light shield practice or is there a easier way to accomplish this?
 

Purpletuce

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I don't know what screw you think you can remove to make your L button on only light shield, but I wouldn't. Especially since lightshielding is so easy.
 

Dinowulf

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I didn't know if there was a trick to it or not. I've seen people modifiy there controllers so I thought I'd ask. Guess I'm practicing more light shielding then
 

Dinowulf

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I don't get what part you're having trouble with, are you accidentally grabbing?
I'm just pressing the button to hard and not getting the long distance push back from a attack. (Falcon's punch for example) i try to light shield it but he doesn't go far enough) Does the light shield (Concerning Yoshi) have different Properties depending on how the light shield is held?
 

Purpletuce

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The light shield varies based on how hard you press it. However, if you want to slide back as far as you can, you need to buffer the light shield with z. If you do this, you will slide substantially farther than if you light shield with a light press on R/L.

With a regular light shield using L/R, you can escape some more powerful moves, but z makes a huge difference.
 

Purpletuce

Smash Lord
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You just need to have planned it, and hold z while you're still in lag from your previous option. Things like roll then hold z or spot dodge then hold z can work if you're already in shield and want to change to light shield, but usually you'll want to do it preemptively, so you don't have to do a punishable option first.
 

kofinater

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
148
I was seriously considering flying out to beast for that sweet PAL yoshi, but i didn't feell like dropping all that cash. GL tho!
 

MrHazuki

Smash Ace
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Mar 22, 2006
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That PAL Yoshi is sweet, so sweet.
I have a lot of respect for you NTSC'ies. We're barely even playing the same character.
 

MrHazuki

Smash Ace
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Mar 22, 2006
Messages
501
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Lund, Sweden
I got 33rd at BEAST5.
Lost against Zgetto (Fox), won against Aniolas (Sheik) and lost against Humpe (Falco) in bracket. I spent a lot of time as crew but I can't really see how that would have changed anything.
 

Noyu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
40
Hi broshis and yoshes.

1. What are the percentages on spacies where f-smash to yoshi bomber will work?

2. Can you parry falco's f-smash, does crouching even help against f-smash, and if you can parry, is it practical?
 

MrHazuki

Smash Ace
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Lund, Sweden
Hi Noyu,
I'll try answering your questions.
1. Fsmash to Yoshi-bomb is proably never going to work.
2. Yes, you can parry Falco's fsmash. Crouching helps, although only a little (based on my expecience). Since you can attack out of a parry, and Falco's fsmash has lots of lag, it is very practical.
Welcome to the boards.
EDIT: I just noticed, you are not that new to the boards, but still: welcome. Feel free to ask about anything.
 
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kofinater

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
148
If you are going to parry fsmash you may as well shield grab it imo, can probably get a harder punish. Anyone going to Paragon this weekend?
 

Sashimi

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
704
Fair is probably the best setup for Yoshi Bomb, but in my experience only works reliably if the opponent does not DI the Fair. Best against fastfallers for a vertical KO, doesn't work too well against floaties because it stops comboing before it starts KOing.

Edit: If you want the actual numbers, check this thread.
 
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Dinowulf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
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482
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Selma, Alabama
I wanted to know when edge guarding fox and he's Up + Bing back could someone tell me the best moves to edge guard (Besides the grab ledge.

I came up with a few theories. I like the Fsmash from the edge as well as the Dsmash. I've been debating on practicing my parrying if a fox decides to go for the stage. If so what would be a good way to counter attack after the Parry
 

MrHazuki

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
501
Location
Lund, Sweden
Dsmash/dtilt if they are aiming for the ledge from below.
Dashattack if they are doing the upB from above.
Spaced reverse nairs if they get back on stage.
 

kofinater

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
148
The weekly i help run had 80 people last night! Biggest weekly yet. 22 teams, 80 singles entrants started at 5:30p finshed a tad before midnight. I beat our PR #10 but got double eliminated by Luigi :'(
 
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