Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[SNEAKY_URKEL]

Alright, got my footage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiw68ovbfyw

Please don't tell me about rolling, parrying, or ECE. I got really nervous and ended up doing pretty poorly and didn't apply a lot of stuff that I normally do. However, things like DJC and the wavelands I did were pretty much the normal me, so just keep in mind that I was insanely nervous and wasn't performing at my best while giving me tips, please.

And uh. That taunt was an accident. Don't need to tell me to not do that rofl

 

[Purpletuce]

Just dived in and felt like commenting on some things that need to be cleaned up, starting at the floaty fair at 3:45. At 3:48 you had a no hitbox Fair (you did this a ton), You seemed aware that you were rolling too much, but you also need to work on what you do after your rolls, so at 3:50 you did a random full hop nair on shield then an immediate dash attack, both of which could have been easily punished. 3:56 you did a drop through Bair on the Falcon, but that really wasn't useful since you weren't prepared to follow it up(upon sucess you just rolled away), maybe use a Nair, preferably DJCed. 4:04, you recovered too high and just put out a random hitbox to cover your landing(Falcon could have killed you on reaction if he knew to sh uair or nair). 4:08 was another aimless bair, you hit with it, but didn't accomplish anything, and then shortly after you got a nair, then weren't prepared to follow up, so you tried to WL onto the platform (make sure your WLs are consistent, they are pretty easy with Yoshi). 4:16 you got a Ftilt, but didn't know what to do with it, so you kind of committed to him missing a tech, and you hitting him with a soft nair (low reward, and didn't cover options well.) In general, don't throw out a Dsmash or a fair if you're not in a position where they are likely to hit, because the Dsmash is easily punished, and the fair is almost guaranteed to lose to falcon's moves.

Edit: Also, tell Cameron the sword of albany was a great idea.

 

[SNEAKY_URKEL]

Yeah, for the rolls, the thing was that I usually don't roll NEARLY that much, so any advice about them would be pretty inaccurate haha. First time on stream got to me super hard

I seriously gotta work on not dropping potential combos, though. Fairs are just... yeah, I'll need to work on my timing a bit. Is there anything I can to do just like... prevent the awkward pauses I have? Or will that just come as I learn the character?

 

[hamyojo]

Gah. Don't know if you guys saw me monday but I lost vs Boomstick in Winners Finals and Grands. In Losers Finals I had a really fun 3-2 set with a 3-0 comeback. Really glad that was on stream.

Basically I lost vs Boomstick because he, well, didn't deal with the MU by not playing it. He didn't approach and it felt like I could never get anything started. I missed a few big punishes sometimes but other than that I thought I was playing right. I'm glad I'm getting camped now in the weeklies and stuff so I can deal with it better at big tournies, heh. I really really wanted to win, and I know it's super doable, I just haven't done it. Soon...

 

[Purpletuce]

Yeah, just expect the players to get campier, 6 minute matches are in your future.

Also, I was saying what you do after the rolls was a problem. You seemed aware that you were rolling too much, but you also didn't know what you were going to do after the rolls either.

 

[SNEAKY_URKEL]

Yeah, just expect the players to get campier, 6 minute matches are in your future.

Also, I was saying what you do after the rolls was a problem. You seemed aware that you were rolling too much, but you also didn't know what you were going to do after the rolls either.

yeah, but I was essentially saying that any tips you give even related to the rolling are really irrelevant, since that kind of rolling has never been a habit of mine. If I do weird rolls, it wouldn't be in the way I did it during that match, so I'm not sure if the options you gave me would be able to apply OUTSIDE of that set. Like I said, nerves got to me really bad and really changed how I played

 

[townes]

Hello yoshi mains. Marth main here, and I hate your character. I believe he wins the MU and on top of that you yoshis will have tons of marth practice by the time we meet in tournament and most marths will have never actually played a competent yoshi. I'm not much of a counterpicking kind of guy. Instead of learning another character for the sheik matchup, I just dedicated myself to that MU and got really good at it. All that beings said, I don't have a yoshi to practice with and I was purely curious what yoshi's hardest MU is. Is there a MU that Yoshi's hate and usually lose more than any other? I would think sheik or fox, but I'm no yoshi. While I'm here, what do yoshi's think as far as stages go for the marth MU? I got OBLITERATED on BF in tournament and FD went a hell of a lot better after 1 game of understanding the MU. Where should I try to take yoshi? Thanks for any and all help you can give me. I'm ******* around with yoshi now to try to understand what he actually is. Please help me my cute dinosaur overlords.

 

[kofinater]

@ townes : Concensus is that the worst MU is fox if he knows the MU. I think Peach is the worst MU and if i had the choice I would never play that MU again. Sheik isn't that bad aside from the chain grab, granted it is a free 50% if they know how to follow up right I think, but at the same time yoshi's punish game on sheik is pretty strong. Marth wins the MU slightly but with MU knowledge and experience the MU swings a bit into Yoshi's favor. I'll play against Marth on any stage but FD and PS get tricky because of yoshi's decreased movement and defensive options. As Marth you want to keep Yoshi out as much as possible with your superior range but not be too rhythmic in your approach or you'll get parry or armored-> combo starter and yoshi's punish game on Marth is pretty devastating.

 

[Purpletuce]

Falcon also gets an honorable mention as a Yoshi counter since he just has to do what he does versus every other character. Definitely easy to pick up and play vs yoshi.

Marth is definitely the most fraudulent character against low tiers in terms of how good he is vs spacies, I would never outright main him. Half the cast does well vs him.

 

[PsyRex]

There was a discussion earlier about not following up on things, and I realized I have no idea how to follow up on anything I do. Is there any advice or info out there on things like that? I'm a relatively new Yoshi, so it'd be really helpful.

Also, as an ex Marth main, he is a perfectly fine choice for a pure main. He doesn't really have any really bad matchups and he has an easier time against spacies, which most matches will be anyway.

 

[townes]

If I played fox what stages would I want to take yoshi to? I'm sure fox should win the MU on all of them by way of being fox, but would there be any in particular stage I would want to ban?

 

[Sashimi]

It depends on how you want to play Fox, but FoD is probably best to ban. After that I'd probably ban Yoshi's if you want lots of space or Dream Land if you want quick KOs.

 

[MrHazuki]

Because I'm going to APEX2015, I'll practice hard as hell this winter. My main reason for losing the last few tournaments has been inconsistency, primarily terrible shield drops and parries, so I'll try to get daily practice from now on. Prepare to see more of me here. :D

I just have to share the coolest thing I've ever done. My mind exploded when it happened. Sadly, it wasn't recorded.
I was on a platform on BF being approached by a falling Fox' nair from above. I parry, shield drop and nair immediately, before Fox touched the platform. My nair was so quick that I hit him before falling through. He died.
I was amazed.

 

[Purpletuce]

It seems like all of the super cool things miss out on being recorded... I know that feeling.

FoD is definitely a solid ban. I think the only real thing you don't need to do is ban FD. A common thing spacies do is ban FD out of habit, but the Yoshi player will probably dislike it more than you will.

 

[hamyojo]

So... I have immediately found success with my Project M Yoshi. I will surely be playing that much more now. I took a set off Sethlon in Winners Semis, completely destroying the bracket with my Yoshi. Ended up getting 3rd in a 40 man tourney with a close set 3-2 in winners, then 3-1 in losers vs Sethlon again. 3.5 is good, guys.
Anyway. Biggest issue is that Yoshi's shield has shield stun now. It really messes up my shield drops. I guess it's a kind of jarring differences that's good for me to have, given that sometimes I'll be playing both games in one tourney. Ugh. We'll see. If switching between the two is too rough I'll have to decide between the games. I'm really good at PM and there's such a stronger scene here for it, but Melee Yoshi's definitely my bae.

Whatevs, we'll see.

 

[Pabmyster]

So... I have immediately found success with my Project M Yoshi. I will surely be playing that much more now. I took a set off Sethlon in Winners Semis, completely destroying the bracket with my Yoshi. Ended up getting 3rd in a 40 man tourney with a close set 3-2 in winners, then 3-1 in losers vs Sethlon again. 3.5 is good, guys.
Anyway. Biggest issue is that Yoshi's shield has shield stun now. It really messes up my shield drops. I guess it's a kind of jarring differences that's good for me to have, given that sometimes I'll be playing both games in one tourney. Ugh. We'll see. If switching between the two is too rough I'll have to decide between the games. I'm really good at PM and there's such a stronger scene here for it, but Melee Yoshi's definitely my bae.

Whatevs, we'll see.

PM Yoshi is really good coming from Melee Yoshi lol. I used him for the first time since May in our monthly and handily made it to third round against people who play PM seriously, without any prior knowledge or practice. He's a lot of fun, and his egg roll is actually decent now, for recovery and even on shield. Way harder to punish accidental egg rolls as well.

 

[kofinater]

All the spacy mains have been banning BF against me, edge-guarding is easier there with no wall.

 

[Purpletuce]

Pm yoshi is too boring though, all of his moves are super good and simple, and everything is about 100% intuitive. He is just boring, honestly. Also, in the last version his sideB was dumb, there was a player in state who would just spam it mindlessly (saw 3 in a row in a 30$ MM). Clanked with everything, starts easy combos, and had no lag/startup.

I never play him, I'd rather play Yoshi in melee and actually be proud of my wins.

 

[MrHazuki]

I'm not touching that abomination of a creature. I have played exactly 0 seconds of PM Yoshi, and I intend to keep it that way.

 

[hamyojo]

Haha, I guess I kind of have to because I live in a strong PM region. Y'all don't really need to. I understand he's definitely different/janky.

 

[MrHazuki]

My most viable complaint against PM Yoshi is that his neck looks disgusting. Somehow it never bothered me in Brawl, but with the speed of Melee it looks terrible. Can't play ugly characters.

I've been practicing haxdashing a bit recently. It is stupidly hard to do fast (ESPECIALLY ON EFFIN' BATTLEFIELD). I'll probably be able to implement it in my game pretty soon. :D

 

[Pabmyster]

My most viable complaint against PM Yoshi is that his neck looks disgusting. Somehow it never bothered me in Brawl, but with the speed of Melee it looks terrible. Can't play ugly characters.

I've been practicing haxdashing a bit recently. It is stupidly hard to do fast (ESPECIALLY ON EFFIN' BATTLEFIELD). I'll probably be able to implement it in my game pretty soon. :D

I've been just instinctively hax dashing onto stage recently, which is kinda strange considering i don't practice it lol

And PM Yoshi is really easy just playing on intuition. The only reason i'd play him is if i was really trying to beat someone. Other than that i'd want to play a more interesting character XD

 

[MrHazuki]

I think you are confusing the terms. You can't haxdash onto the stage. Haxdashing means edgewavelanding backwards back to the edge while staying invincible. I've heard commentators mess this up as well, so it's not a big deal.
Here's a gif from PerhapsMan's "Some Yoshi Information"-thread: http://i.imgflip.com/7xi69.gif

 

[Purpletuce]

It is really easy to do consistently if you let yourself drop a little lower, this costs invincibility, but if you're just trying to stall I'd use eggs/downB... The only way I use it is to make them think I'm not grabbing ledge (maybe make Falcon think he should go low) then sneak there.

 

[BigglesWorth]

I've been making notes for a modern Yoshi MU thread.
And on Project M, try him again in 3.5. He feels way better due to landing detection stuff, and side-b no longer being safe on shield. Side b just helps Yoshi's tech chase game in 3.5. I'm actually going to start playing PM far more often now because I like Yoshi/Other chars a lot and I live in away better PM than Melee region, so might as well learn some stuff with the new, better game
Parrying doesn't work for things that last longer than a frame in PM due to how Brawl invincibility works, so that really, really sucks... but he can jump out of shield, lol. Give him a try, but have many, many grains of salt nearby.

I do really love usmash out of shield though. Do you find the timings for platform dancing and ece's cumbersome?

 

[hamyojo]

I do really love usmash out of shield though. Do you find the timings for platform dancing and ece's cumbersome?

The only thing I find truely cumbersome is the sheild stun he has in PM. It makes shield drops feel very, very different.

 

[MrHazuki]

What is your general opinion on dthrow fair?
It shouldn't be a combo. You shouldn't be able to follow up with anything. It should be worthless.
But... it just looks so cool!

 

[Kimimaru]

Hey Yoshis, sorry for not being very active here lately. To be honest I have been focusing much more on Smash 64 now that there are regular online tournaments, and I've been getting good results in them and beating some well known players.

I've pretty much lost most of my interest in Melee since there's no scene where I am, I don't own my own car, and I'm still trying to move out. I'm also still stuck using an N64 controller online and it just doesn't work well for Melee. Hopefully when I move I'll find people in my area and my interest will be reignited.

In short, I'm taking a Melee hiatus. I may still come along and discuss some Yoshi things, but I'm just less motivated to do so because I'm not actively playing the game with quality opponents (and the proper controller).

 

[hamyojo]

I want to quit Yoshi so bad right now. I can't believe I'm losing to people worse than me at Melee.
/Ragepost.
Edit: For the first time I completely believe it's my character holding me back. I could improve and become more skilled at my Yoshi, but that can only be taken so far. This character is top 12 material for sure, but I want to play top 3 material. I don't want any more excuses for winning or losing, I just want to be able to fully show my skill and... Yoshi just isn't letting me right now. I feel held back by his limited speed and his tiny moves and stuff. I feel like my energy would simply be better spent elsewhere. I'll always love this character, as he is tons of fun, but I think it's time for me to move on. I'm sorry guys.

 

[Sashimi]

I don't necessarily agree with your reaction, but there's no need to apologize for switching characters. Best of luck with your future endeavours, and thanks for all of the Yoshi advice.

 

[PsyRex]

It saddens me to hear that, because you were a pretty good Yoshi. I do hope you find the success you're looking for though.

 

[MrHazuki]

None here can blame you for hating Yoshi. I think it happens from time to time with everyone.
I, on the other hand, can feel my power rising.

 

[Purpletuce]

I've thought many times that I wanted to quit Yoshi, but he is just too much fun. I can only hope you two will be back soon/ Good luck at 64/high tiers.

 

[hamyojo]

Life's too short for bad matchups. I'll play Yoshi for Marth, Falco, Falcon, IC's and anyone lower tier than them. Maybe some Fox's and Sheik's too. I still love Yoshi... But eh. I need to win. Fox is super fun too. I just wish he could djc.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Life's too short for bad matchups. I'll play Yoshi for Marth, Falco, Falcon, IC's and anyone lower tier than them. Maybe some Fox's and Sheik's too. I still love Yoshi... But eh. I need to win. Fox is super fun too. I just wish he could djc.

hello hamyojo

it sucks how much you get out of Yoshi for being good.

 

[Purpletuce]

Not sure what the above comment even means, but hamyojo, what characters do you not like to play against as Yoshi?

 

[MrHazuki]

Just Peach. ^^

 

[hamyojo]

... Lol. You're right, Purp. I didn't make any sense. Peach and Puff. But other that I'll judge on a player by player basis. Expect a mix I guess, at least for awhile until I feel like my Fox is better.

 

[SNEAKY_URKEL]

hamyojo, do you think that most Yoshi mains that stick with him will actually reach a point where they feel held back by their character choice? He's really fun, but if I'll end up switching to a 20XX character anyways, I don't know if I wanna stick to him in the long run...

 

[Kimimaru]

In any game, I play the character that feels right to me. I will never give up Yoshi for this reason. Sometimes I feel held back by my character, but then I look at more skilled Yoshi players like aMSa and realize it's just me.

Also, even Fox/Falco mains complain about their characters sometimes, so it seems like people in general make excuses for losing regardless of character choice.