Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[YOSHIDO]

oo I haven't tried the red shells or egg roll. Thanks for the info.
Here are some recent tournament vids. Critiques, thoughts and advice are appreciated.
This is me vs atlas(x amount of characters lol) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql-SePhe6_k
me vs sheik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkTJAsGfcsk
me vs sheik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Adpo5JURg

 

[Sashimi]

So I just learned how to do a retreating DJC instead of a reverse DJC. How useful is the retreating one?

 

[Ripple]

it has its uses if you like bair

 

[Mind Trick]

So I just learned how to do a retreating DJC instead of a reverse DJC. How useful is the retreating one?

What do you mean with retreating, like djcing and instead of turning around just drifting back? If so, fair is pretty good with this.

oo I haven't tried the red shells or egg roll. Thanks for the info.
Here are some recent tournament vids. Critiques, thoughts and advice are appreciated.
This is me vs atlas(x amount of characters lol) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql-SePhe6_k
me vs sheik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkTJAsGfcsk
me vs sheik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Adpo5JURg

Some thoughts:
- Work on your movement, you're stationary too much, making you much easier to hit. I see you moving fluidly between stocks but it seems to disappear when the opponent is back.
- Work on your punish game, way too much dsmash and ending combo's early.
- Good job mixing up recovery.
- Grab more and stay grounded more (especially against marth this is really important), don't just throw out moves. Better opponents will punish that floating nair stuff and unspaced aerials on shield mercilessly.
- Don't hit CF and sheik back on stage! If you work on a speedy waveland on the stage (and timing invincibility against sheik poof) its easy to dsmash them back off.
- Look out for doing the obvious roll in when under pressure.

 

[Sashimi]

it has its uses if you like bair

Thanks, it turns out this works okay at the right time. I played quite a bit of Yoshi vs Puff today, and I think it's a decent mix-up if the puff is just spacing Bair.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Exciting news for Apex! ^^ more to come later

 

[Hawt Salsa]

So, I'm considering learning yoshi for the hell of it. My only question (Since i've already looked into yoshi) is:

HOW DO I DJC EFFECTIVELY.

 

[MrHazuki]

I think it cracks for you if you only insist on playing some more. I never found any trick to it.

 

[Kimimaru]

The best way to practice is to go into training mode and fiddle with the DJC timings with each aerial.

 

[MrHazuki]

I prefer name-entry glitch with a CPU level 1 team mate with FF on or alone in Fixed Camera mode. Both those ways are basically the same as training mode, but they allow c-stick. I still agree with Kimimaru. The keyword is "fiddle".

 

[Purpletuce]

Salsa, did I play you yesterday?

 

[Hawt Salsa]

In fact, you did. I had the LED Controller.

You.. uhh.. Sorta inspired me.

 

[Purpletuce]

Whoa, that's really cool. I think Blake also plays some yoshi, you should hit him up. Also, I could tech you some stuff if you came down for the tourney this weekend.
Also, yoshi boards, ive been lazy and not talked about results, but I got 9th at a 42(maybe it was 49?) Man tournament. I lost to eggz and vidjogamer. I think I did pretty well

 

[Hawt Salsa]

Whoa, that's really cool. I think Blake also plays some yoshi, you should hit him up. Also, I could tech you some stuff if you came down for the tourney this weekend.
Also, yoshi boards, ive been lazy and not talked about results, but I got 9th at a 42(maybe it was 49?) Man tournament. I lost to eggz and vidjogamer. I think I did pretty well

Sadly 15 year old smashers cant make it down to Oregon ever :/
I don't really talk to blake, never met the dude.
And it was a 49, congrats btw.

 

[MrHazuki]

Good job.

 

[Purpletuce]

Whoa, I thought you just looked young. Its all good, Ill probably be in WA soon, maybe December GC. Thanks, I'm pretty happy with my results. I also at some point went to an Oregon tourney and did decent, and will be going to another this Saturday.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Woooot yaya more Yoshi's!! and good stuff Purpletuce, keep up the good work and motive! n_n

 

[Hawt Salsa]

Alright, I've been experimenting the last few days; I have a few questions to start.

1. When Recovering, Is it normally a common/good idea to sweetspot by using Down B?

2. What are some good approaching options? Should I be DJC'ing an aerial, or approching with a tilt, jab, etc.?

3. How important are jab resets with Yoshi?

 

[Purpletuce]

Sweet avatar dude :D

1. DownB to grab the ledge is good because you can grab super low, especially on Yoshis, so it becomes hard for people to hit you. The problem with this is that if they do hit you while you're starting up your sideB, you're dead. Generally, if you think they will try to attack your DJ when you go above the stage, then it is pretty safe. I like it as a mix up though, it is easily punished.

All of that is assuming you recover low. Sometimes low is a good idea, but I think I usually recover high and mix up when I airdodge, and if I do it to the stage or platforms, and sometimes I'll downB to the ledge, or if they don't space properly, hit them.

2. Yoshi isn't super good at approaching. Dash attack put out a decent hitbox in front of you, but it is weak and laggy. Bair is really good and covers a ton of options, I'd say that is one of the main ones. Dtilt it quick and is pretty useful. I'd say the main thing is to work on moving through platforms and countering their approach. Ex: Dodging their attacks with DJC and Nairing, or Ftilt as an anti-air etc.

3. Jab reset is nice because it almost always leads into a nice combo, you can really pick your opening. At low %s you can Fair as a combo starter, at mid %s you can Ftilt or DJC Uair as a juggle, and at high % you can smash for a kill. You'll need to get a feel for when your opponent will actually be jab reset though. I think it is best for when you surprise them with a Fair mixup -> jab reset, so they don't have time to use options like roll out of reset, or to DI the reset.

 

[Hawt Salsa]

Alright, I'll keep all that in mind. Thank you! I'll be back for more soon.

 

[Pox]

@Purpletuce - Great tips. I've been looking for better ways to approach my opponents as well, and your advice will definitely sit with me for my next smash-get-together.
But I've also gotta ask one thing, what are some effective ways to get out of shuffling combos by faster characters like Fox or Captain Falcon? I often find my self stuck in bad positions and I can only get out if I use my light shield and slide to the edge of the map, but even then, since both Fox and Falcon can run so fast they can catch me before I have a chance to take control back and it usually ends with me getting KO'd.

Also, I'm an Oregon player from Tualatin. We outta meet up at a tourney soon.

@Hawt Salsa - Welcome to Yoshi man! It's awesome that there's so many people picking up unconventional characters nowadays. And Yoshi's the raddest of the bunch!

 

[Purpletuce]

Yeah, I think I know who you are, you play with Anthony a bunch, right? Usually you've got to go for an advantageous trade, parry(more so against falcon than fox) or move away in a position where they're committing to an attack. Generally when you're in situations where they have momentum, you're in a bad spot. Sometimes you just have to take the loss of a stock and come back harder.

 

[Mind Trick]

Against falcon try to DI in a way that you're able to double jump just before he can hit you again, then counter. Against fox don't get in a bad position lol. Good defense is one of the hardest things in this game though. As a general rule of thumb try to use your shield way less on the ground than you would with other characters.

 

[MrHazuki]

And learn to shielddrop. It is amazing.

 

[Kimimaru]

I went to a tournament yesterday and did pretty well. Here are the results: http://smashboards.com/threads/mcbs...at-zhu-shroomed-11-10-2013-oakland-ca.342312/

I got to play on stream for one set, but right now the stream isn't on the archives so you may have to wait until they put it up or put the sets up on YouTube. I got two of my sets recorded in total. The end of the first match in one was probably the closest match I've ever seen; I was about to die off the bottom but my opponent died off the top first.

I went against Shroomed again in bracket, and this time I did better than last, getting him down to his last stock on both games, but still didn't manage to take a game off of him. He plays so much better on his last two stocks. I also got Azusa down to his last stock in both games, and in the first we were both at around 160% each.

Overall it was a lot of fun and I managed to beat some players I didn't think I would win against! Let's hope the videos get uploaded soon so you guys can critique my sets!

 

[Purpletuce]

Super hype, kimi. I also went to a tourney and might have been recorded. Got 9th out of about 50 ill see if anything gets uploaded

 

[Hawt Salsa]

Good job guys!

 

[hamyojo]

I'm here to brag a little.

I went to a tourney on Saturday and got 13th out of 50-something( http://smashboards.com/threads/dime-5-results-11-9.342315/ ). I did alright, but last time I did better, and went ALL Yoshi and ended up in 7th! ( http://smashboards.com/threads/dime-4-melee-pm-results.340326/ )
In tourny I go about 80% Yoshi now, but when a Sheik or something convincingly beats me first or second game I'll switch to Fox, and so far my Fox can cover what my Yoshi can't a lot of the time, but Falco is still a big issue. So, like, I'm getting better and stuff, and a ton of people love to watch me Yoshi around C:

I've started a habit of money matching as many people as I can, and that has given me a ton of competitive practice I desperately needed.

My favorite one so far was a 3$ MM I had against Sethlon on Saturday. We decided to just do a best 2/3, and he only went Roy and I only went Yoshi. Game one we went to Yoshi's Story I think, and I was playing on point. I two stocked him, and then I think a few people started watching. I made the poor choice of banning FD, and he brought me to Stadium. He two stocked me right back, but I think I SD'd one of my stocks. Still, he was figuring me out. Last game we went to Battlefield, and throughout the match there wasn't a very clear lead for either of us, and that went on until last stock. He was at like 110% or something, with me at like 70%, and I was trying my best to not tunnel vision myself in to only CC>D-Smashing, but, apparently, that's what was happening. He got a few solid tech chases, then, with him at like 130%, managed to get a killing blow and win the MM.
It was really close, and I walked away very happy with myself and my performance.

I gotta study more of those Yoshi vs. Falco vids, and then I think I can start to get some sweet results and maybe make a few upsets in the coming months. I can smell victory, and it smells like ledge cancelled eggs.

 

[Purpletuce]

So apparently the person who was recording everything sucked, and after recording for half in hour before the tourney, turned it all off because of choppy audio. So. . . that sucks.

 

[Kimimaru]

Here's one of my sets, which was on stream: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQi13hb5v84

I'm not sure when the other will be up, but I'll be sure to notify you guys when I find out!

 

[Purpletuce]

Very nice Kimi, you're looking good :D

The only things I might suggest would be to try implementing a little more ECEs, Ftilts and some more dashdances?

Lately I've made good use of running offstage while throwing an egg, then doing a couple ECEs to push the opponent back, and taking some of the stage back. It works well to get out of a situation where Fox has pushed you to the edge. Naturally you have to do it cautiously, because I'm sure everyone knows what happens if you let the fox get close to the ledge.

I think you have a similar problem to what I have that limits how often you use dashdance. I always get stuck in the mindset of making my spacing retaliate to his spacing, but I often forget that I can choose my spacing better with some DD/WD to maybe tilt the situation. I'm getting better at it though.

 

[TerryJ]

Sadly 15 year old smashers cant make it down to Oregon ever :/
I don't really talk to blake, never met the dude.
And it was a 49, congrats btw.

Blake holds fests every Wednesday at his place in Auburn. Usually starts at like 7pmish to like 6am or so.

 

[hamyojo]

Kimi, why do you SH Nair when they shield?
I'm not so much criticizing as I am wondering. Also I think every Yoshi shield pressures pretty differently, so it could just be your preference.
Good ****, but I think you underutilize fair and uair a bit and use Nair instead. Not that big of a thing, but Fair tech chases are devastating and ultra satisfying.

 

[Purpletuce]

I have different 'moods' when it comes to interacting with shields. They're governed pretty heavily by who I'm up against, but they're there.

Lately my main method has been trying to catch them as they come out of shield, ex: up-angled Ftilt to catch them as they jump or move to where they might roll. I do this the most against aggro players who try to get out of shield quickly, but I often get punished for trying this stuff vs patient players. This usually gives big reward if I guess correctly, but it is decently punishable.

When I'm styling/attacking patient players who are afraid of me I go for pressure, like DJC Nairs, jabs and dtilt pokes. I like this stuff a lot vs puff. (Vman inspired)

When I'm not sure what to expect, I go for safe, non-committing stuff to cover a few options. Simple things like SH fade out Nair or Bair can do a lot of work, and either clip them as they come out, or trick them into reacting poorly, allowing me to punish it.

I think the 3rd is what Kimi is doing.

 

[Kimimaru]

Thanks for the feedback!

That was my first tournament match of the day so I was nervous, and I noticed that I tend to spam Nair when I'm nervous for some reason. Using Nair a lot on shield is one of my biggest flaws that I'm working on. When I'm nervous I also try to do DJC U-airs after a jab reset too quickly and often miss. Check out some of my other videos, specifically some from the UCSC tournament, to see my play when I'm a bit more comfortable.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Keep the vids coming Kimimaru! everyone's lookin good! =D

 

[Hawt Salsa]

Hopefully the next tournament I go to I can get on stream and show y'all a match.

 

[hamyojo]

Is it possible to recover on Randall using side-b? I tried to in tourney and manged to do so, and then tried to do the thing where you roll back and fourth in place. http://youtu.be/UufV85QoCVE?t=1m4s like dis. I did one turn, and tried to break out as soon as I could. I couldn't. Has anyone ever done this successfully before?

 

[Kimimaru]

Breaking out of the Egg is really strange because sometimes it works after a turn and sometimes it doesn't. You're better off air dodging onto Randall.

 

[V3ctorMan]

wanted to give my full shoutout to aMSa... thanks for the idea.. on that DJC for "movement purposes" I think that's a new idea, that will help push Yoshi's metagame even further.. Thanks to you, i've completely added it to my game... and man is it useful.. I admit, I was unsure if it's usage at first, and had tried some time ago to implement it, but I've come to grow and appreciate i..tCan't wait to team with you at apex good sir... Yoshi evolution, one step at a time..

I hope to see other Yoshi's implement this into their game... It maybe ackward to get used to at first, but I believe it is very viable, kind of like parrying... maybe not to the same extent, but I COMPLETELY see it's potential.. thanks again aMSa.. <3 you man