Fish&Herbs19
Smash Journeyman
Ok, thank you very much!
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Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)
- Thread starter Taj278
- Start date
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Yeah, I would focus on learning more basic things like reading your opponent, movement and combos/juggles. You could probably learn to parry projectiles.
I've played Yoshi for a year and a half, and I still don't think my time would best be invested in practicing parries. I only use it for projectiles, and occasionally for a frame trap kind of thing.
I've played Yoshi for a year and a half, and I still don't think my time would best be invested in practicing parries. I only use it for projectiles, and occasionally for a frame trap kind of thing.
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
Learn how to shielddrop. I'd say it is one of the most important techniques for Yoshi.
Mind Trick
Smash Ace
There's a kimimaru video upload spree on http://www.youtube.com/user/MeleePacWest/videos lol
gonna check some out when I get the time
gonna check some out when I get the time
Mind Trick is right; all of my recorded matches have been uploaded! Any and all constructive critique is welcome!
Vs. Germ (Falco): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME7y33k1ZZo
Vs. Gar (Sheik): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjXnFXF27hA
Vs. Ycz6 (Samus): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EIRku047Bg - I need the most advice on this one
Vs. Stephen (Marth): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovJmMZ2rVtY
Vs. Pat (Samus/Fox): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo1NRLaAmls
Vs. SFAT (Captain Falcon/Fox): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB7MDlAXbvM
Thanks in advance!
Also, here's the results thread with the brackets if anyone wanted to check it out:
http://smashboards.com/threads/game...omed-sfat-plus-scar-vs-tomber-runback.339982/
Vs. Germ (Falco): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME7y33k1ZZo
Vs. Gar (Sheik): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjXnFXF27hA
Vs. Ycz6 (Samus): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EIRku047Bg - I need the most advice on this one
Vs. Stephen (Marth): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovJmMZ2rVtY
Vs. Pat (Samus/Fox): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo1NRLaAmls
Vs. SFAT (Captain Falcon/Fox): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB7MDlAXbvM
Thanks in advance!
Also, here's the results thread with the brackets if anyone wanted to check it out:
http://smashboards.com/threads/game...omed-sfat-plus-scar-vs-tomber-runback.339982/
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
Saw all of them. I think you could use a lot more shielddrops, especially against that campy Samus. You can actually be safe on top of the platform she is under, ready for a drop-uair anytime.
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
No problem. It takes a while before you get to fully incorporate a technique like that, but when you do it is bliss.
I have to compliment you on your movement. You are all over the stage!
I have to compliment you on your movement. You are all over the stage!
Mind Trick
Smash Ace
Alright, watched some of the matches.
You throw out too much dsmash and get punished for it a lot. Most notably when used on tech chasing rolls and on a hard read on when the opponent is dropping his shield. I think for techchasing a dashgrab is much better against rolls, unless you can make a hard read. Dsmash is amazing though for missed techs and techs in place. On shields if you really want to smash, fsmash is a much better option when spaced (or pivoted, or empty dj waveland shenanigans). And for slow recoveries running through and djc nair gets them off the stage again, while dsmash the other way gives them another chance.
Another thing that got you in bad positions was when you full jumped out of parrying/powershielding projectiles, I think wavedash is most of the time a better option unless you are retreating to platforms. Both falco and samus can pretty easily stuff telegraphed approaches from the air. With samus you kinda have to play the projectile, tilt spacing and shielddrop game.
Some other quick notes; I saw some dthrows on floaties when upthrow would be a much better option. Edgeguarding against spacies needs some work as well. You can't do too much about high recoveries (sometimes weak nair/bair to stuff), but try to always be ready for an illusion.
I saw some really sick stuff though, good use of upsmash and weak nair, really good movement, and creative combos, most notably the egg to downb :D
You throw out too much dsmash and get punished for it a lot. Most notably when used on tech chasing rolls and on a hard read on when the opponent is dropping his shield. I think for techchasing a dashgrab is much better against rolls, unless you can make a hard read. Dsmash is amazing though for missed techs and techs in place. On shields if you really want to smash, fsmash is a much better option when spaced (or pivoted, or empty dj waveland shenanigans). And for slow recoveries running through and djc nair gets them off the stage again, while dsmash the other way gives them another chance.
Another thing that got you in bad positions was when you full jumped out of parrying/powershielding projectiles, I think wavedash is most of the time a better option unless you are retreating to platforms. Both falco and samus can pretty easily stuff telegraphed approaches from the air. With samus you kinda have to play the projectile, tilt spacing and shielddrop game.
Some other quick notes; I saw some dthrows on floaties when upthrow would be a much better option. Edgeguarding against spacies needs some work as well. You can't do too much about high recoveries (sometimes weak nair/bair to stuff), but try to always be ready for an illusion.
I saw some really sick stuff though, good use of upsmash and weak nair, really good movement, and creative combos, most notably the egg to downb :D
Jackie
Smash Journeyman
I watched a couple matches. you're actually about as good as I expected.
In regards to downsmash, you're spacing it right for techchases, but you're still throwing it out anticipatorily rather than reacting.
Overall, you're very solid. I think the most significant offensive thing that needs polish would be control of your fair. I know you're aware of these flubs as they happen, but just practice the different DJC heights for fair. Delayed DJC full hop fair to bait a get up attack, different platform height techchases, etc.
I personally don't like smashing shields, I prefer spacing aerials so I land behind them and go for safe mix ups that way.
Also, I don't think you need much advice honestly seem you seem to be intelligent enough to learn more from playing a lot. You also have access to top notch players, so I think you're on the right path.
In regards to downsmash, you're spacing it right for techchases, but you're still throwing it out anticipatorily rather than reacting.
Overall, you're very solid. I think the most significant offensive thing that needs polish would be control of your fair. I know you're aware of these flubs as they happen, but just practice the different DJC heights for fair. Delayed DJC full hop fair to bait a get up attack, different platform height techchases, etc.
I personally don't like smashing shields, I prefer spacing aerials so I land behind them and go for safe mix ups that way.
Also, I don't think you need much advice honestly seem you seem to be intelligent enough to learn more from playing a lot. You also have access to top notch players, so I think you're on the right path.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Kimimaru, my thoughts and advice:
You have the Dsmash fever. I know that feeling, it sucks. You probably have immediate regret every time you throw them out and it is a habit, where you put them out when you want a kill. . . you have to resist that. Try some more Ftilt (see below)
(DJC U-air) Juggle more. In game 1 vs the Shiek you dropped to openings on the last stock alone. They really build % super well, and a character like Shiek (her Dair sucks) doesn't have a reliable way to beat it.
Jab reset more. It covers a missed tech without you committing and dropping any possible techchase. If you miss a jab reset, or they SDI it, it leaves you in a better position. Ftilt also works really well. Actually, you probably just want more Ftilt in general. That move has been a big part of me moving away from overusing dsmash. It comes out just as fast, covers a little more area around you (doesn't hit under airbourne opponents as easily), and most importantly isn't a huge committment. Usually landing a Ftilt lets you get a combo too, which does more % than Dsmash, but you usually won't get as much knockback.
Definitely need more shield drop familiarity. Once you're comfortable with it, you'll become much more dangerous on platforms.
You need to work on how you interact with shields. Either go for pressure(like vman), or safely cover options (like Angel). I think those are the most effective ways to pressure shields, and the players that most exemplify them. Other players seem to do a mixture of the two (or throw out bad moves, like me, which you should avoid).
You definitely seem to be doing similar things that I am, which is kind of encouraging. You seem like your playstyle relies on fundamentals, which I think is cool. Also, don't take this the wrong way, but it is kind of nice to see someone with similar problems, makes me feel less dumb for having them.
You have the Dsmash fever. I know that feeling, it sucks. You probably have immediate regret every time you throw them out and it is a habit, where you put them out when you want a kill. . . you have to resist that. Try some more Ftilt (see below)
(DJC U-air) Juggle more. In game 1 vs the Shiek you dropped to openings on the last stock alone. They really build % super well, and a character like Shiek (her Dair sucks) doesn't have a reliable way to beat it.
Jab reset more. It covers a missed tech without you committing and dropping any possible techchase. If you miss a jab reset, or they SDI it, it leaves you in a better position. Ftilt also works really well. Actually, you probably just want more Ftilt in general. That move has been a big part of me moving away from overusing dsmash. It comes out just as fast, covers a little more area around you (doesn't hit under airbourne opponents as easily), and most importantly isn't a huge committment. Usually landing a Ftilt lets you get a combo too, which does more % than Dsmash, but you usually won't get as much knockback.
Definitely need more shield drop familiarity. Once you're comfortable with it, you'll become much more dangerous on platforms.
You need to work on how you interact with shields. Either go for pressure(like vman), or safely cover options (like Angel). I think those are the most effective ways to pressure shields, and the players that most exemplify them. Other players seem to do a mixture of the two (or throw out bad moves, like me, which you should avoid).
You definitely seem to be doing similar things that I am, which is kind of encouraging. You seem like your playstyle relies on fundamentals, which I think is cool. Also, don't take this the wrong way, but it is kind of nice to see someone with similar problems, makes me feel less dumb for having them.
I appreciate the feedback everyone!
Purpletuce, I usually use DJC U-airs whenever I get the opportunity (this is evident in some of sets against fastfallers). I don't like to make excuses, but Game 1 of that set was my first Singles game of the tournament and I was very nervous, hence the much better performance in Game 2. I also jab reset around 90% of the time, but looking back at those matches I must've been desperate to get kills sometimes so I just D-smashed. I'm also not entirely sure that we share the same problems, considering that movement was the biggest problem I saw in your play whereas I haven't heard anything bad about my movement quite yet.
I usually am pretty bad against shields though. I should dash grab more often like you guys pointed out.
Keep it coming!
Purpletuce, I usually use DJC U-airs whenever I get the opportunity (this is evident in some of sets against fastfallers). I don't like to make excuses, but Game 1 of that set was my first Singles game of the tournament and I was very nervous, hence the much better performance in Game 2. I also jab reset around 90% of the time, but looking back at those matches I must've been desperate to get kills sometimes so I just D-smashed. I'm also not entirely sure that we share the same problems, considering that movement was the biggest problem I saw in your play whereas I haven't heard anything bad about my movement quite yet.
I usually am pretty bad against shields though. I should dash grab more often like you guys pointed out.
Keep it coming!
Something I was thinking about:
If Falco is on the ground and you parry his shine, he wouldn't be able to do anything against a perfect Parry -> N-air if the hitlag he experienced was 3 or more frames. His fastest option would be jump -> shine, which would be 7 frames total, discounting the hitlag (6 frame jumping animation and 1 for the shine); Yoshi would need only 9 frames to jump and N-air, putting him at -2 without the hitlag. Based on what I've seen, the hitlag looks like 3-4 frames, putting Yoshi at +1 minimum. Can anyone confirm this?
If Falco is on the ground and you parry his shine, he wouldn't be able to do anything against a perfect Parry -> N-air if the hitlag he experienced was 3 or more frames. His fastest option would be jump -> shine, which would be 7 frames total, discounting the hitlag (6 frame jumping animation and 1 for the shine); Yoshi would need only 9 frames to jump and N-air, putting him at -2 without the hitlag. Based on what I've seen, the hitlag looks like 3-4 frames, putting Yoshi at +1 minimum. Can anyone confirm this?
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
If you manage to parry-nair, I'd say you are set for almost every occasion.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I know I have a problem with movement (the biggest thing I'm working on now). I was saying the problems I saw (even if they were for a small sample size) were ones that I always notice to have. More of bad habits then weaknesses in gameplay. Movement is more complex then throwing out a bad dsmash, I usually know when I shouldn't have used a dsmash, and it is apparent immediately. Movement isn't as easy to pin down, so in my opinion, it isn't as frustrating.
Also, I'm sure I've said this before. I'm really bad at making/understanding internet connotation. If I previously sounded condescending, like I had been where you are now(implying I am ahead of you), that wasn't my intention. Sorry.
I think your calculations for being able to parry nair are correct, assuming that the yoshi jumps out of parry asap.
Also, I'm sure I've said this before. I'm really bad at making/understanding internet connotation. If I previously sounded condescending, like I had been where you are now(implying I am ahead of you), that wasn't my intention. Sorry.
I think your calculations for being able to parry nair are correct, assuming that the yoshi jumps out of parry asap.
Oh, I didn't take it as condescending at all. My reply came out more harsh than intended so I'm sorry if you thought I felt offended. I see what you mean now with the similar problems and I agree.
I also think my gameplay is rather chaotic at times and I just throw out attacks and rely a bit too much on hard reads (this isn't a Melee-only thing for me either; I do it in Smash 64 as well). I think the best example of my more focused, less chaotic play is the first stock on game 2 against SFAT.
I also think my gameplay is rather chaotic at times and I just throw out attacks and rely a bit too much on hard reads (this isn't a Melee-only thing for me either; I do it in Smash 64 as well). I think the best example of my more focused, less chaotic play is the first stock on game 2 against SFAT.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I figured you were fine, but no harm in checking. I think making hard reads often is a double edged sword. When it causes you to throw out things, it obviously is a pain to your gameplay, but I also think it helps you improve. When you commit to an option to cover, you're making a situation where you're forced to read, and over time you'll condition yourself for better reads. So I think it is not necessarily a bad thing, especially when training.
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
You are both such gentlemen.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Falco only has 5 frames of jumpsquat so he could get shine out on frame 6.
According to http://smashboards.com/threads/ssbm-statistics-list.30064/#post-479503, Falco needs to wait 6 frames before he's in the air.
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
I went Yoshi only for the first time at a tournament about a month ago. I got a bye at first, lost the first match 0-2, then a bye in losers. Then 0-3. Didn't win a single tourney match.
If it's your first time going Yoshi only, then I wouldn't worry about your performance. Yoshi plays so much differently than any other character, so if you're used to playing him with another character in a tournament then suddenly switch to only him, it will throw you off. You'll get better the more you play him and familiarize yourself with him in a tournament setting.
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
That's what I hope. Thanks for the encouragement.
Mind Trick
Smash Ace
I'm going to a tournament on saturday for the first time in... more than 6 months I think. Planning on going all Yoshi, tech skill on point, excited to see how I stack up with the new tech in my arsenal.
Upsmash out of your running turnaround animation is pretty cool.
Upsmash out of your running turnaround animation is pretty cool.
YOSHIDO
Smash Ace
Good Luck yall. Crush their hopes, dreams, soul and Asperations!!! I won't be entering this weekend on account of no controller. But sometime next week I should beable to enter again. I'll also be adding more tournament vids for critique prettay soon. !!
The tournament wasn't as big as I hoped (I was the TO), but I got first place! I'll have videos pretty soon; Singles were recorded but sadly Doubles weren't.
Doubles Bracket: http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/Kimimaru4000/DoublesResults.png - I was on the team "Cheats of Intensity"
Singles Bracket: http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/Kimimaru4000/SinglesResults.png
Doubles Bracket: http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/Kimimaru4000/DoublesResults.png - I was on the team "Cheats of Intensity"
Singles Bracket: http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/Kimimaru4000/SinglesResults.png
Mind Trick
Smash Ace
good **** kimi, looking forward to vids
as for me:
http://smashboards.com/threads/avalon-i-the-netherlands-europe-apex-qualifier.340996/
was hoping to get top 8, but adam was playing better (3-1)
feel like the fire is kinda back though and can think of a lot of things to up in my game!
as for me:
http://smashboards.com/threads/avalon-i-the-netherlands-europe-apex-qualifier.340996/
was hoping to get top 8, but adam was playing better (3-1)
feel like the fire is kinda back though and can think of a lot of things to up in my game!
Mind Trick
Smash Ace
He started playing again at this tournament lol
There was only one recording setup and I haven't played there so no
There was only one recording setup and I haven't played there so no
Here are my recorded matches:
Vs. Blackranger (Captain Falcon): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI5CGfQdAXs
Vs. GKInfinity (Zelda, Sheik, Fox): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ABeWc5_aI
GF - Vs. GKInfinity (Jigglypuff, Falco, Zelda, Sheik): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOalUDOqFDk
Vs. Blackranger (Captain Falcon): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI5CGfQdAXs
Vs. GKInfinity (Zelda, Sheik, Fox): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8ABeWc5_aI
GF - Vs. GKInfinity (Jigglypuff, Falco, Zelda, Sheik): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOalUDOqFDk
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
Wild! So many combos!
If you want to tackle Falcon's N-air directly, you can CC it at low percents. You should also be prepared to counter it with something like F-smash or simply maneuver around it if you can. When you're on the edge of the stage this is significantly harder.
Parrying relies on your ability to read, which is a general player skill. I think a level 9 CPU Yoshi Egg Rolls often if you're far away, so you can practice parrying with that on FD. Another option is to practice parrying a CPU Falco's lasers on FD.
Parrying relies on your ability to read, which is a general player skill. I think a level 9 CPU Yoshi Egg Rolls often if you're far away, so you can practice parrying with that on FD. Another option is to practice parrying a CPU Falco's lasers on FD.
aMSa
Smash Rookie
>Also, is there a good way to practise parrying on my own?
I often use Red shell on training mode^^
I often use Red shell on training mode^^
Sashimi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 704
That's brilliant. Thank you!